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Sunday, April 02, 2006

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I like Delucci, my only wish is that they could have looked ahead and dealt Padilla and Blalock for him instead. I feel like Texas definitely got the better of us with these two deals.

In essence we traded Padilla, Tejeda and Blalock for Delluci and cash. Uh, not good.

With Utley, Abreu, Howard, Rollins and Victorino all batting left handed I don't see this move at all. Once again, the Phillies gave up quickly on a young pitcher. I would imagine the Rangers have the Phillies' number programmed into their speed dial.

I see the Phils are trading pitching. Not a good formula for success. They'll be needing another starter in a month when Gavin Floyd fails. Oh wait, we have Eude Brito. Wooooohooooo!

Well, Rollins and Victorino are switch-hitters. Let's face it, the bench sucked before this move. Also, the Phils now have a legitimate DH for interleage games, as well as a suitable backup corner outfielder. Depth matters.

This is not a minor factor, last year the team was hurt when Thome DHed and Ramon Martinez and Perez split time at 1b against Oakland and Seattle. That trip killed us (1-5?) Add to that the Offerman debacle of last year and the time when Manuel had only one move off the bench, and I welcome some depth.

Tejeda's upside is probably 4th starter or quality set-up man. Not non-trivial, but worth it for this year.

And (sorry), the Padilla trade was obviously bad, but that has NOTHING to do with this trade. Delluci is obviously a more talented player than Ricardo Rodriguez, and there is no way Texas would have traded him for Padilla.

take out the last 2 years from Dellucci's stats and he's a 1 home run every 45 AB's. I don't see him hitting anymore than 5 to 10 as a spot starter and pinch hitter. He'll be a non-factor! To bad we traded away a pitcher who wants to win and has a nasty attidude unlike Floyd who looks like a deer in headlights, or Hamels who is as dumb as a door nail or Myers well hopefully he's turned himself around. Enough said...actually we traded Padilla and Tejeda both could easily win 10 games a piece for David Dellucci a guy who will struggle to hit 10 homeruns...another great trade i think Wade still has some influence on the Management.

to say that the padilla trade had "NOTHING" to do with this one is a little short-sighted... you have two trades between the same teams, and in both of them the phils gave up a young starting pitcher that texas had at least some interest in. i think with a little foresight, the phillies could have played that situation into one trade in which we get more than delucci to show for it. or perhaps not even give up tejeda at all. so i have to agree with the first guy.

why did we need to trade two players for a 5th OF? save for injury, is dellucci really going to get 250 ABs? i shrug my shoulders at this. sure tejeda is up and down, but where's dellucci going to be after this year? probably not in south philly and that makes this a weird trade. i don't like us thinning our AAA pitching depth before the season starts.

I'm not sure I buy into this trade. It really has nothing to do with Delucci the player. The Phillies simply did not need to add an outfielder. They could always bring up Roberson if they wanted to spell Abreu or Burrell. They shouldn't need to do that in April/May in any case.
Instead we gave up another pitcher, this in a scenario where 90% of the conversations about the team concerned worries about middle relief. Is what Delucci will bring over and above what Roberson could bring worth giving up Tejeda?
And of course Coste is the odd man out, when I think he could really have contributed something to the club.

The only way this trade makes any sense to me is if Gillick is putting himself in a position to be able to trade Burrell or Abreu. He might have shown confidence in putting Madson and Floyd in the rotation, but expecting both to pan out is asking a lot. If he could secure a bona fide #1 or #2 for Burrell or Abreu I now think he would.

I think George is right, this only makes sense if they're thinking about moving Abreu or Burrell. Otherwise, what is the pressing need for a 5th OF on this team? You have 3 starters who are relatively young and have had good health throughout their careers and don't require alot of days off. In the event someone got hurt, you have Roberson waiting in AAA or could make a deal for a longer-term solution. I think one way or another Burrell or more likely Abreu is gone by the deadline.

This is a very good deal for the Phils. Having a solid LH guy off the bench is very important. The fact that Utley, Howard and Abreu are LH is largely irrelevant; they (with the possible exception of Howard) aren't going to be pinch-hit for in key situations. Ditto Rollins, except moreso b/c he's a switch. I like having Victorino in the mix, but at 5'9, 160 lbs and never having hit 20 HR in the minors, he's a completely different player than Dellucci, who hit 46 HR in 776 ML AB over the last two years. Dellucci is a great option to have coming off the bench to pinch hit for the pitching slot or Bell or Fasano (both horrendous at hitting rightys). Victorino's a better defensive replacement and can hold his own in the batter's box but is not nearly the same offensive threat Dellucci is. Victorino becomes a 5th OF/defensive replacement/pinch runner and Dellucci is our 4th OF/DH/primary pinch hitter. Rumor has it testing for amphetamines is going to force players to sit more often, as their bodies wear down over a 162 game grind, making the bench more important, so it's good to have two legit OF options. Most importantly, Dellucci should go a long way towards helping me get over my Endy Chavez pinch-hitting nightmares.

As for what we gave up, all I can say is... ehhhh. Blalock had been a disappointment and was no better than the 5th best OF in the system (behind Roberson Golson Bourn and Victorino). Couldn't hit .280 or 20 HR in class A ball; that's not much of a prospect. Tejeda was great down the stretch but I have no reason to believe he could even be a long-term 5th starter with the Phillies. Walks kill. Thanks for the memories, Robinson, and best of luck in Texas. As for trading away starters, I don't see it as a big deal. Franklin's still around, Wolf is due back in July, and Haigwood, Gonzalez and even Hamels (fingers crossed) could be prepared to be called up sometime this summer.

Finally, you can't combine this trade with the padilla trade because the Rangers weren't necessarily prepared to deal Dellucci in December. The Soriano-Wilkerson deal and Laynce Nix's successful recovery from shoulder surgery went a long way towards making Dellucci available. I'm not happy about the padilla trade either, but here's hoping Gio Gonzalez makes us think that, on the whole, the beginning of the Pat Gillick era was a success. And picking up Dellucci is a savvy move that will do nothing to dissuade us from that. This was a move to help the Phillies win in 2006. I like it.

Anyone who thinks of Dellucci as a "power bat" off the bench is delusional. As "Huh" said, before the last two years with Texas, Dellucci averaged one home run every 45 AB, and even after the last two years has a slugging percentage of .438. This is a case where people are putting the conventional idea of what a roster should have over what the actual value Dellucci will add might be.

Additionally, the fact that we did not get Dellucci in return for Padilla is unacceptable. This isn't a need that just suddenly opened up. Salaries weren't the problem. Ricardo Rodriguez never significantly factored into our plans. Why not trade Padilla when we could get more for him? Being a GM is about being able to look into the future, and Gillick should've been able to say "OK, we'll deal Padilla once your OF situation is worked out."

This trade is terrible, and Dellucci will be a non-factor this year, hitting .250 with 5 HR and 40-50 Ks in 150-200 AB tops. While Tejeda does have work to do, he is a promising young pitcher nonetheless and definitely had a chance to figure into the Phillies' plans the minute either a starter or reliever went down.

(Also, it must be noted that this is another acquisition of a player Gillick has previously had--Dellucci came up with the Orioles while Gillick was GM)

I don't understand all of this Padilla talk. The Phillies really had no intention of keeping him and his 4.5 million salary. Had he not been traded, he would have been non-tendered, so to get anything for him was a bonus. You can disagree with Gillick about whether Padilla should have been traded, but IMO you can't criticize him for getting only Rodriguez in return. Tejeda and Blalock are under the Rangers' control for the foreseeable future while Padilla did not even have a 2006 contract when he was traded.

Not to change the subject, but I was just watching the game and I have to say the Sal Fasano looks like he was born to play in Philly - the fu manchu, the mullet - he could easily be Pete Incaviglia's little brother.

The one thought that comes to mind is whether Tejeda could become another Carlos Silva ... in which case, ouch.

As for ever getting a #1 starter for Abreu or Burrell ... talk about delusional. What team with a sane g.m. is going to part with their ace for a nice outfielder?? Ain't gonna happen. Sure, Zito would be nice, but don't hold your breath.

Ditto to most of the comments above. At 24, Tejeda has too good stuff and poise to be traded for essentially a 32 year old pinch hitter. Forget any talk of this being a precursor to another deal and Delucci possibly starting. Delucci cannot hit lefties at all, which limits him to role player status.

My, my, my, all this negativity. Jason happens to be right on this one. The Phillies are trying to win a World Series this season. Trading a grade C prospect like Tejada for a good lefty off the bench could make the difference. And, please, stop with this absurd over-rating of Shane Victorino (.178 lifetime hitter, 5/17 BB/K ratio this spring). Getting Dellucci means Shane can be used properly: Pinch-runner and rare start in CF when Rowand needs a blow.
How many games did we see last year with runners on base in the late innings and Tomas Perez coming in to PH? Dellucci makes what was the worst bench in the NL East, at least average now.
Two final thoughts: 1. Yes, the Padilla deal was a bad trade, but it had nothing to do with this one.
2. Is it possible the Phils are going to carry Tomas again this year? Why?

The trade for Dellucci finally gives the Phils a decent 4th outfielder/left-handed bat off the bench. Victorino is no better than a marginal AAA/majors player and there is no else on this bench I want to see pinch-hitting late in a game.

First of all, Delluci will be the number FOUR outfielder, not five, with interleague play and the plans to rest Abreu and Burell more, I imagine DElucci will get between 25-30 starts and get around 200 ABs, not a non-trivial number for a team that missed the playoffs by ONE GAME last year. Depth is important. It means Delucci will get ABs that Vic would have gotten, Vic will get A-Gone's ABs, and on down the line. Basically, the difference is btw. 200 ABs from Delucci and 200 from Perez/Coste/Nunez/A-Gone.

Plus, he is insurance if anyone goes down. Before the trade, if Howard, Abreu, or Burell went down, their replacements would be Victorino (one year removed from Rule V status) or Alex Gonzalez. Delucci represents a major upgrade. Does everyone forget how bad the bench was last year? We have nine games where will need a DH.

Finally, Tejeda's ERA last year was significantly lower than you would expect given his composite numbers. He is not a major prospect. If you want to argue that Delucci overperformed last year, you have to argue the same thing for Tejeda. If he had so much damn moxie, why did he walk 51 batter in 85 innings?

FWIW, Baseball Primer's ZIPS projection (before the trade) has:

Tejeda 6-8 4.85 in 133 IP

Delucci .247/.357/.476 (better #'s than Hank Blaylock) 23 HR in 393 AB

Adam- Why should we discount the previous two years' stats in evaluating Dellucci? Aren't those two years the most relevant two? And if you're going to complain about his K rate, you should also applaud his OBP. The guy had a .367 OBP batting leadoff for a loaded Rangers lineup last year and has a career .345 OBP. He can't hit lefties, but we don't need him to. He's not a replacement for Burrell. He's now one of the best pinch hitters in the major leagues. He's a huge upgrade over Chris Roberson, Tomas Perez, or (gasp) everyone's favorite 33-year-old who has never gotten a cup of coffee, Chris Coste.

ok saying a lifetime .250 5-10 hr hitter will make our bench one of the best in the NL is dillusional. Guys you need to get over yourselves. This is a riduculous trade and Double D, as I'm sure Wheels will call him, will make no difference in our season.

anyone notice that it seems Gillick has this facination with trading or acquiring players whom he is familar with. It's very similar to Big Red's unwillingness to get offensive players who have never played in the west coast system.

If anyone is hoping that Wolf will be the savior is a retard. The guy is done until at least August and most pitchers need 2 full years until they are anywhere near there formers selves which for Wolf isn't that great of a pitcher anyway. I do believe he's a lifetime .500 pitcher. Am I reading the situation correct? Yest i am!

this might not be a great trade, but i think it's a reasonably good one. blalock is basically a throw-in, and tejeda had all the makings of a one-year wonder (look at any of his projected stats). certainly nobody in the phillies showed any evidence of thinking otherwise. (the comparison to silva is pretty hilarious though, considering that they're virtually polar opposites.)

and i'm completely bewildered by commenters who can convince themselves that victorino can duplicate a fluke .900 AAA OPS in the majors and yet disregard dellucci's .783 and .879 OPS in the last two years. 250-300 PA, .360 OBP, 15-20 HR would be very valuable to the phils, and i can't imagine victorino providing that.

" It's very similar to Big Red's unwillingness to get offensive players who have never played in the west coast system."

I dont think thats true. Basically 28 teams run some version of the WCO.

bink,

You can stand to be a little more respectful of other's opintions and think outside the box a little bit. If I were Oakland, I wouldn't trade Zito for Abreu or Burrell straight-up but you take one of those guys, thrown in someone like a Corey Lidle and/or a prospect and it's definitely worth considering. That's just an example and it would depend on where Oakland is in the standings. And personally, I'm not sold on Zito as a good trade. He seems a little flaky and I'm not sure he'd do well under the pressure of pitching in Philly, NY, or Boston. But the Phillies putting together a package to get a no. 1 isn't a delusional idea. Saying there's no way to do it is the Ed Wade-style of thinking that lands a team in perpetual mediocrity.

Got to see Dellucci a great deal while I lived in Scottsdale a few years back. He's smart, he bats left, plays good "D", has a bit of pop and plays hard. Nothing not to like here. My guess is that he will be an asset in the club house as well. He is no Michael Tucker.

Despite head-scratching assertions to the contrary, Delucci is a major power threat off the bench. Maybe 29 homers doesn't wow people the way it once did, but really now. Think of it. You basically have a 30-HR guy sitting on the bench.

When you compare that to Endy Chavez, you might want to break out that Ed Wade dartboard all over again.

Obviously the Phillies didn't believe in Tejada. It's amazing how much more flexible a team can be when it actually has a surplus of pitching options. There have been years of recent vintage in which Tejada would have landed on the cover of the media guide and been the no. 3 starter from day one of spring training for putting up the kind of solid numbers he did as a rookie. (Really only a slight hyperbole.) This trade obviously makes the team better in 2006. There's no guarantee Tejada will ever make them regret the move. The only thing I don't like about it is that it slights the potential my man Roberson has to fulfill the same role. But even I'll admit, Roberson isn't going to scare anyone on that bench. Delucci is a hell of a pickup, better than I could have imagined Gillick picking up to complete the roster. I think we're good to go.

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