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Sunday, August 13, 2006


The good news? The Phils have their ace going against a weaker pitcher today in a must-win game.
The bad news? This means Myers won't be available for the 4-game series with the Mets, coming up next.
P.S. I liked the explanation from Adam that what's going on with Gordon is he's simply reverting to the mean. Veteran players each season go thru hot and cold streaks but almost always wind up close to their career stats. Gordon's numbers were ridiculous earlier this season. I think he'll get back in a good groove once he's past this rough patch.

Wild Card watchers looking ahead: while the Phils get the Mets for 4 games, the Reds battle the fading Cardinals, the Rockies face the Diamondbacks, the Astros get the terrible Cubs and the Padres face the Giants. Looks like the Astros and Padres have the best chance to put some distance between themselves and the Phils.

Is it my imagination or is it generally a really bad idea to put your closer on the mound in a non-save situation? Where is Bill James when you need him?

I am not worried about Gordon. I think he will be just fine. He is a professional with a proven track record who happened to hit a little slump. I have confidence that he will turn it around.

The person whom I don't have any confidence in is Abraham Nunez. I don't want him to be the "Paul Abbott" of the 2006 campaign. Third base is the obvious glaring hole on this team. It's time Gillick showed a little renewed confidence in this team and addressed the third base position. I don't care if it is Scales or King from within the organization, or somebody like Aaron Boone or Vinny Castilla from outside the organization (I prefer the latter). The bottom line is that something needs to be done. Nunez is hitting .169 for crying out loud! We are not talking .209, we are not even talking .189, we are talking about one sixty nine! I don't care if he is on this team as a defensive replacement or pinch runner (I personally would just designate him for assignment), but there is no concievable way that he should be manning third base on a day in and day out basis. Legit wild card contenders do not have "starting" pieces like this.

JW, According to the Baseball Encyclopedia, Hollins never hit 2 HRs from both sides of the plate in a single game. It was done 2 times by Phils prior to J-Roll.

1. Steve Jeltz on 6-8-1989
2. Tomas Perez on 7-24-2001

whoa Jdbu u called him the Howitzer. Fear the Reaper!

As any Yankee fan will tell you, which I'm not, this IS Tom Gordon. Great when it's basically meaningless....less than stellar when it counts. Tom Gordon is NOT good under pressure. Those are the basic facts.

Jon, Don't hold your breath for any help at 3rd base this season. Seems Gillick is willing to have Nunez play out the string.

From Todd Zolecki's notes column in today's Inky.

He's (Nunez) done an outstanding job defensively and he's done a really poor job offensively," Gillick said. "To be frank, I don't see any indications right now that he's offensively going to turn it around."

Asked if he feels he must upgrade at third base, Gillick said, "Not as long as he keeps going the way he is defensively. And I don't know who you'd get to play over there anyway."

In other words, it seems the Phillies think the pickings are slim and are lukewarm at best about them. Cleveland third baseman Aaron Boone is hitting .247 with six home runs and 39 RBIs. He is making $3.75 million this season with a $3.75 million mutual option for 2007. Vinny Castilla hit .232 with four homers and 23 RBIs before San Diego waived him July 20. He's out of a job, and it doesn't appear the Phillies have any interest.

Thanks Billy Mac. It's pretty bad that Gillick can say that Nunez is doing poor offensively and probably won't turn it around, yet then go on to say he doesn't know who he would get to go play over there anyway. There are always options! The thing is .247 for Boone and .222 for Castilla are still way above where Nunez is. Boone is hitting 78 points higher! 78! Even Castilla with his .222 average is a resounding 53 points higher! That is a true indication of how futile Nunez has been this year! Heaven forbid you get an Aaron Boone who even has a reasonable 3.75 option for next year if he shows any kind of life here! He may not be a long term answer, but he could fill in servicably this year and next until a better crop of free agents comes along. The man even has playoff experience!

Don't buy that Tom Gordon's not good when it counts-he was zas good as any closer in the game in April until the front office gave up.

All closers give up runs and games, even Rivera. Having a week off, then pitching 2 innings, then pitching again could be as much to blame as anything.

I'm also not buying that Gordon is poor "under pressure". What rot. When he saved 46 for Boston in '98, those were all easy third-of-an-inning, three-run lead saves? And all his other saves this year were cinches? Come on. Not all saves are equal, true, but there's been plenty of pressure in the late innings all year and he's come through 27 out of 31 times. You walk a fine line out there and you fail sometimes. Wagner failed in back-to-back games at home against Houston last year, does that mean he's a choker as well? If so, then every closer in history is a choker if you look at the one bad game for every eight or nine good ones.

I've been wondering when Rollins was finally going to get one of those homer-from-both-sides games. Last night was his third multi-homer game this year, after never having had one coming into 2006. His power game has really taken off, and the rest of his game doesn't appear to have suffered much. He is one of the top five shortstops in baseball, period.

Nice start by Myers!

I'm very interested in why Flash is in his rough patch. There's probably a difference in putting the closer in when tied (which Flash did in his first appearance for the Phils), when ahead, and when behind. That'll be an offseason project.

I can't help but to think that if Castilla had anything in the tank, he'd have been swooped up by now by any contender. Something's probably up there that we don't know.

Jesus, it took him long enough to hit someone.

That went to hell in a hurry. And of course we cannot do squat against Milton. If we are going to do something, this is the inning. Victorino, Utley, and Howard coming up.

I'm following on GameCast...was the HBP intentional? Is Cincy pissed?

Myers is such a louse. Why people think he's ace material is beyond me. He'll start so many games looking dominant and then get hit around the next thing you know. This is not a big-game pitcher.

Man, Chase just missed two homeruns today! Also, RSB, it was intentional. Myers tried to play it off, but his command wasn't that bad today. He meant to hit him, and yes, he came up small once again.

How bout that Ryan Howard! The Howitzer fires once again!

How about that Ryan Howard. How many of those 41 homers have meant something? Nearly every single one.

Holy crap...has Fabio Castro gone AWOL? Seriously, the man hasn't allowed an run as a Phillie and Manuel refuses to use him...Manuel is an f'n moron. I went to Sunday dinner with my family and an 83 year-old lady called Manuel a dumbass!

RSB- I know you're a fan of the "meaningful" homerun, as you proclaimed Burrell's weren't. Preach on brotha, preach on!

Asked if he feels he must upgrade at third base, Gillick said, "Not as long as he keeps going the way he is defensively. And I don't know who you'd get to play over there anyway."

What this really means is that the Phils won't spend a nickel more to any moves to upgrade this team. Gillick was frank in his appraisal of Nunez but anybody would be an upgrade over Nunez at this point.

Nunez's numbers are starting to reach historically-bad proportions. He is a nice defensive player (no Gold-Glover) but there is no way his fielding makes up for his pathetic bat.

Wow, a hit for Nunez. What is he hitting, .171 now? He would need 7 more hits in a row (like that is going to happen) to break .200. That's great... That's our starting third baseman...

RSB - I agree with you about Myers supposed "ace" status but he is the Phils' best starter by default at this point.

Embrace the beard!

I personally like the name "weird beard" for Rick White.

How funny is it that the Reds just let Rick White walk, and the Phils got him for nothing and he's pitching ok? Then they turn around and trade for a ton of relievers that haven't done anything except for make their bullpen!

Who is this Howitzer you all speak of? I Fear the Reaper!

Frenchy- come on and serve up some slop for your old teammates!

I was at the game last night, and the question I kept asking was, Where's Gordon's curve ball? That used to be his best pitch and he didn't throw it once in about 30 pitches. Elbow problems?

Come on Howard!

One more reason I would like the Phils to get the Wild Card- Ryan Howard would get the MVP consideration he deserves!

We got rid of our one "inside out swinger" in Bell, now hopefully we don't go and keep Rowand...horribly ugly ineffective swing!

I can hardly wait to have Nunez lead off the 9th inning...

One good thing about this season- should be last season we have to suffer through Mike Lieberthal.

Our first round draft pick currently has a +9 ERA in the Gulf Coast League...ouch...way to go Drabek!

Well six more in a row and Nunez will be over .200. He still needs replaced...

Which is worse, the tease, or going away quietly??

Howard for MVP...Holy Shittah!

Pat the Bat in a game winning situation? Looks like we could go to extras.

Tie game!! Ryan comes through this time!! Posted in the wrong spot before haha!!

This has been one helluva a series, but these extra innings will be telling if it was a good or bad series for the Phils...must win!

Dammit Manuel...stop using pitchers that suck...bring in Castro!

I've have been refering to Howard as "The Factor". "The RH Factor", that is!

Manuel's refusal to pitch Castro combined with his effectiveness when used is going to bring him to Cult Hero status soon.

Nice play by J-Roll!! Let's go win this one!!

Crazy Bob- I was just up your way last weekend to take a Praxis test in Bloomsburg.

Adam Dunn is the Phillies version of Pat Burrell. Horrible fielder, slugger, and walks alot. Now I know Dunn is better offensively, but I was just trying to make a comparison

Nunez... Ugh...

Hey I got an idea- bring in a bunch of tired bullpen guys because they've pitched a lot lately, instead of bringing in a guy who hasn't allowed a run yet and is obviously rested....I hate Charlie Manuel...I can't believe he skates by without more criticism!

Um, exactly how much criticism of Chollie do you want? Do you get WIP up in your neck of the woods?

Alby- unfortunately I don't get any Phillies radio up in my neck of the woods...that's part of the reason I'm getting XM for next season. I just can't stand Manuel...everything about him disgusts me!

I agree drama. Normally I understand why he's hesitant to use a Rule 5 guy a lot. But the whole bullpen's tired. Castro hasn't pitched a lick.

Madson went from starter to now relieving daily...not an easy task. I know I'm harping on Fabio Castro non-use here, but seriously, why the hell isn't he being used?! I could understand if he was flat-out horrible, and was only in the bullpen because he's a Rule 5, but that's not the case, he's been decent when used...Manuel is just and f'n idiot!

Castro, albeit with limited use, has not pitched like a Rule 5, he's couldn't have done anything more that what he's done with the chance he's been given. If Manuel is willing to run Nunez out there because he deserves a "chance", then why the hell not Castro?

I'm so very, very pissed off right now!

Well, DQ, you'll be happy to know that Manuel gets a daily bashing behind only Nunez, Lieber and Burrell now that all the other whipping boys have been shipped out.

Damn you Phillies!

Manuel is a bad manager. I know there are a lot of bad managers out there, ahem Narron, but Manuel keeps adding reason upon reason for my bashing of him.

As bad as Burrell is in tight situations (today inclued) I want him batting in extra innings instead of Roberson.. Fookin Elmer Fudd.

Tough loss today. Guess Manuel felt Madson was a better option than Castro but Madson looked completely gassed.

Weitzel was right that this team needed Myers to go 7+ innings today and give some relief to the bullpen. If the starters keep giving these limited outings, there is going to be 1 or 2 relievers who end up on the DL with "dead arm."

Despite the unhappy results of the last two games, and the fact that they lost a big series at home, I still have to look at the series as a positive for the Phillies. They battled back to tie the game in late innings in each of them, and that counts a lot towards creating a winning feeling on the club. They showed an awful lot of heart, definitely more than had been demonstrated for the past two and a half months prior to the flurry of transactions. Tying it today with a gritty ninth inning is what I want to remember about this game. They played like they wanted it and they came up big. They couldn't quite get it done, but you know, I think they're getting there.

RSB, how can you quote numbers from '98 as to why Gordon doesn't fold under pressure. 8 years takes a toll on a pitcher. Look, I'm just telling you what I saw and what the rap is on him on NY. I know you don't give a damn what people in NY think and that's fine, but don't shoot the messenger.

Let me ask again: Has anyone seen Gordon throw a curve lately? Didn't that used to be his best pitch? Last night the scoreboard said nothing but fastball and cutter.

I attended this game. They needed at least seven innings from Myers today. Pitching at home, in a game where you knew hitters would be tight, there shouldn't have been any reason for a pitcher of his talents not to get it done.

I won't claim to be in Myers' head, but I've seen that sixth inning two-dozen times, in various forms. All it takes is one bad at bat, one bad call, and it derails the whole thing. I don't know what it would take to fix him. Jim Leyland? Perscription drugs? Somehow, I wish there was a presence that would get through to him. "You want to act like a crumb, do it on your own time, because your teammates are taking it seriously." Somehow, I think I'll be cold and dead before that day comes.

As for Pat Burrell, there's nothing left to say. Even Nunez got a hit in the ninth inning. Good ol' Pat could learn a lesson from our .180-hitting third baseman. It's called shortening the bat.

The way Gillick and the owners have given up on this year, you'd think the Phillies were Kansas City-except that new KC GM Dayton Moore has made move after move to improve his club.

Gillick has made move after move with no serious intent involving winning. He should resign, except whoever would replace him will be under similar instructions. Since Gillick is willing to tolerate working under these conditions, he shares moral responsibility for the failure.

Phillies' ownership has one interest and one interest only-to make money in their taxpayer-financed ballpark. Gillick is about one Freudian slip away from admitting that the organization couldn't care less about winning...witness his Nunez comments. This team would go the Florida route in a heartbeat and dump the whole roster, if there were takers.

In two years the Ed Wade salad days will be the talk of the town. I'll take 88 wins and almost making the playoffs over 68 wins and 30 out (the 2007 record) in a heartbeat.

Bravo, Salmon. Even Clout couldn't top that kind of apocalyptic pep talk.

Glad to see you're paying attention to things like payroll, organizational depth, and available talent when you cite Gillick's "moral responsibility". Nothing like considering those small details known to others as context.

Hey at least we get to see what Cole can do against the Muts tomorrow night. I bet it is better than what Myers served up to the Reds today.

Simple question, RSB-In what direction has Pat Gillick taken this team? On net, are they improving? And, in what realistic sense has he tried to tap into the "available talent" around baseball?

Being a Gillick apologist is a shaky proposition, my man-he's turned over the better part of the roster since he took over, and the team's worse. Not sure what planet you need to be living on not to see that as failure-though I know you like to argue, you've put yourself in a tough spot.

The team made money last year-see the Forbes numbers-and won 88 games and nearly a playoff spot. There is no reason why Gillick couldn't have pursued the pitching and bench help needed to get to 90 wins and a likely WC spot. He didn't. Indefensible. All the more so, given that the NL WC may only call for 85 wins in '06. Simple roster maintenance-no improvements, but no Nunezes-might've been enough.

When you talk of "context"-this is a fairly large market team in a three year old ballpark. This team's payroll has NEVER been high relative to its market, not even with Abreu still in town.

Salmon does have a point about the money issue. If Phils had any concern about trying to make the WC, they would have not traded Bell or Lidle. Phils' clearly had no viable options to fill these holes. Phils at least had some players (Dellucci and Victorino) who can give the Phils decent production in RF.

The past may be water under the bridge, but Pat Gillick has put together at least five playoff teams and two World Series winners from scratch in worse situations. Do you really believe a 70 year old baseball lifer would want to get back into the business to collect a paycheck?

Deep down, Salmon, you knew Abreu and Burrell were never part of the nucleus that was going to bring a title to Philadelphia, especially when Gillick even said that the same nucleus needed to win 5 more games. Since the turning over of "the better part of the roster", the team is 10-6, a better winning percentage than at any other time in the season, minus the 12 game win streak.

Defending a GM with gold on his fingers is a lot easier than defending the likes of Sal Fasano and Cory Lidle, IMHO.

"This team's payroll has NEVER been high relative to its market, not even with Abreu still in town."

I'd like to start by debunking that, real fast. In 2003, the Phillies ranked ninth in the majors in team payroll; in 2004 and 2005, they were fifth. The Phillies drew 3 million in '03 and '04 and the the following seasons' payrolls *do* appropriately reflect this; it was down in '05 and '06 and continues to project to be down in '07 - and again, the payroll has dropped somewhat in accordance.

"There is no reason why Gillick couldn't have pursued the pitching and bench help needed to get to 90 wins and a likely WC spot. He didn't. Indefensible."

Gillick totally revamped the bench from the end of 2005 to the beginning of 2006. His decisions may not have panned out well, but saying he didn't pursue bench help is an inaccuracy. As for the pitching, Gillick's predicament was that he was not able to move the larger contracts in the off-season either in exchange for or in order to free up payroll for the addition of any pitching. The long-term, no-trade, bloated contracts of several players effectively hamstrung Gillick from being able to make a move. It was difficult for me to accept this at first, but the financial realities, as revealed by what they had to accept in a trade for Abreu, are undeniable.

I wouldn't say I've turned into a Gillick 'apologist'. What moves he has made thus far, other than adding Rowand and Gordon, have not been beneficial ones; in the cases of people like Franklin, Fasano, Rodriguez, and Bernero, Gillick showed poor judgment which is not entirely absolved just because he had the guts to quickly admit his errors and get rid of these players. However, I do better understand the bigger picture at play here. In unloading a lot of superfluous veterans at the deadline, Gillick demonstrated that he has a plan - the revelation of which brought a good deal of insight into why more moves have not been made all along - and the fact that it's not going to lead to instant gratification is not a bad thing in my mind. To take a purely reactionary stance to what has taken place thus far in Gillick's tenure is to abdicate a sense of context and a willingness to look beyond the surface results; only by blocking out certain tangible realities of this team's payroll and overall budget do his methods appear 'indefensible'.

I don't think the Phillies had any concern about trying to win a cheap wild-card spot. I think they're better suited trying to build an organization that can actually win and eventually compete for the division lead, not scurry with futile determination for some Cracker Jack prize along with the other mediocre dregs of the league year in and year out. Focus on this charade, exciting and tempting as it may be, detracts from a real commitment to an organizational plan, and ultimately the goal of fielding a consistent winner. If you'd prefer that Gillick took the kind of myopic approach of someone like Wayne Krivsky of the Reds, who is more or less selling the soul of that franchise just to try to eke out a 84-win Division Series appearance - I'd suggest breaking out the media guide and taking a look at what happened to the Phillies the past two years when they went this route, trying desperately to sneak in a playoff spot while the big payroll was in effect, and further depleting the organizational depth to meet that unrealized goal, instead of admitting that the assembled core was not working out as hoped, and concentrating on addressing the situation at hand and trying to build from within.

Finally, I do not 'like' to argue. If I disagree with a statement someone posts, I will counter it with a different perspective. I don't do this for its own sake. This is a forum, and if we did not occasionally respond to each others' posts, it would be a significantly less enlightening one.

Some good news, the Phils ML pitchers keep dominating at AAA Mazone threw 7 shutout innings. He would be on pace for Mathieson's next turn if needed. JA Happ went 5-0 last month at AA. Carlos Carrasco and Andy Barb threw a no hitter yesterday. Carrasco also retired the first 22 batters he face Tuesday before fading. Very impressive! And of course Drabek threw 5 shutout innings.

Title to this thread "2 outta 3 ain't bad"...but 1 out of 3 is.

However, like RSB stated, they are showing heart and the game was fun to watch. I don't blame the players for this loss, I pin it on Manuel. He didn't have to use Madson yet again. He has a Model Dictator (Castro) out there who is fresh and hasn't done anything to show his manager that he can't handle pitching...but Manuel is a dumbass, so I digress.

winning this series was crucial, and they blew it, plain and simple. It wasn't just cause this was the Reds; it was because they need to win or split every series from now on. This makes the Mets series this week even more crucial, as they can't afford to go down 1-3 in the 4 game set. I was hoping for a split series but now they really need to win it 3-1, which will be tough/impossible without Myer's throwing. I hope they can muscle out 3 wins but I can't find three wins in Hamels/Lieber/Wolf/Mathieson.

I agree that we should have seen Castro at least once during this series to give the bullpen regulars a rest. It's like Manuel goes through lapses and totally forgets that Castro is on the team. While I do not think he is some kind of miraculous savior out of the pen, he could have provided some adequate relief during this series. Now we will have an even more taxed bullpen for our four game set with the Muts. Hopefully Cole can shut them down tonight and bring the best kind of relief possible to our bullpen regulars.

Here are the dates that we have had a Castro sighting:

June 30th
July 6th
July 29th
July 30th
July 31th
August 6th


I agree with RSB that the Phils showed heart in the series and I agree with DQ that Elmer Fudd has to take a good share of the blame. I guess Cholly reads in the paper that Castro is on his deathbed, so mentally, he can't call in a sick man from the bullpen.

Down here in New Orleans, I watched the Saints win a preseason game with Reggie Bush looking good. I listened to the post game radio show and Clout called a number of times using assumed names and disguised voices predicting another 3-13 season.

The next morning's radio show dealt with LSU football coming off an 11-2 season, Clout called up again using an assumed name and a disguised voice and criticized the recruiting class and the coach and basically predicted the program going into the dumper.

Pessimists are everywhere. We need to listen to them, because there is some truth in what they say, even though they're wet blankets, while we see sunny days ahead.

I'm pulling for the WC, but deep down I don't expect it to happen. I see hope in a team built around Utley, the Howitzer Factor, and King Cole.

lake fred you are brilliant.

what a great series of baseball. even though we didn't get it done, we all saw what happens when the two best players in the game are both on your team (utley/howard, obviously). sadly, we saw what having an absolutely inexcuseable manager can do as well.

i'm looking forward to cole stepping up to face pedro today. it's pretty obvious that as intense as cole is, he is going to want every ounce of dominance he has to come out tonight. he may take his first step into becoming out "stopper" tonight, against the division leaders and a hof pitcher...

Let's hope Cole does the job tonight. I believe that he will emerge as the staff "ace", relegating Myers to the no. 2 starter role, where he may feel less pressure and more comfortable.

The optimism meter has gone down a notch since the great win on Friday night but still remains positive.
Yesterday's loss hurt; Phils now have to hope for a 3-1 series win against the Mets.

Pitching matchups: Tonite - Hamels vs Pedro, a tough one but Cole has been pitching like an ace and is capable of outpitching Pedro.

Tuesday: Wolf vs El Duque, Wolf has been getting stronger with every outing, pitched very well through five innings his last start before he ran out of gas, El Duque has been a nice pickup for the Mets, but despite a few effective outings has been mostly mediocre. Phils can win this one.

Wednesday: Lieber vs. Glavine, Lieber has pitched efectively his last 2 starts and although the home runs are still a concern, may be finally turning it around. Glavine has cooled off since his hot start and has been less effective with each successive month. If the trends continue, Phils can take this one.

Thursday: Mathieson vs Maine Ugh!!! Maine has been very effective in his brief major league career, but it is unrealistic to expect him to continue pitching as well as he has for the remainder of the season. The Phils only hope is that he comes back down to earth quickly. Not much to say about Mathieson except to hope the offense comes through and the pitching can keep them in the game.

As usual, the starters must go deep, especially after the bullpen-depleting series against the Reds.

On the downside, the Phils offense is no match against the Mets, but if JRoll and Dellucci stay hot, and a few other slugs can pitch in with a timely hit or two, Phils can come out on top.

So, there is the optimist's take on the series. If the Phils can win take 3 out of 4 and remain close in the race, the schedule will soon get easier and a hot streak is more likely.

The WC is still in sight so LETS GO PHILS!!!

just so its not lost sight of, castro was warming up in the 11th to pitch the 12th had the phils been able to tie it a second time. obviously, charlie isn't comfortable with his pitches being left high more often than not. however, he's got use castro for the sake of the others on staff, especially if rhodes will only throw one inning (even if that inning consists of 7 pitches) and fultz's and madson's arms could fall off by the end of the season. they are lucky that rick white has been decent. having a deadspace on the roster hurts both the bullpen and the bench, which on any given day has one, maybe two, ok pinch hitters and two pinch runners with no backup 3B. the team has 17 games in 18 days before the september call-ups can provide some relief.

Couple of tough breaks for the Phils in this series and I only see them splitting at best against thet Mets. Just hard to beat Pedro and Maine has been pitching great.

I'll root for a sweep of the Mets. I'm not willing to write any of the games off yet. This team is really trying and we all can see it. They hustle, dive, run it out, and when they are down they keep coming back. They look close to putting things together.

Manuel needs to get some innings out of the starters and rotate his relievers better in this series.

I know he came up small yesterday, but is there any chance we could see Brett Myers on Thursday instead of Mathieson? Myers gives us a better shot against the Mets right now. I doubt it will happen, but I still wanted to throw it out there to see what you guys thought.

I'm not opposed to that idea. Sooner or later, Myers will have a good game, and it would be nice to get him in against the Mets. They have no shot with Mathieson.

Obviously i'll be rooting for a sweep. I don't think it's possible, considering it's very rare for anybody to sweep a four game series in the regular season. I doubt we can win the series 3-1. I expect that we'll split the series.

The only problem with the trying is that if they keep trying their hardest and still lose, it's tough to keep it going. I hope they can pull out this first game over Pedro. They need the rebound quick.

At this point, i'd rather Madson than mathieson on thursday. I dont know if Madson's arm will be back in shape by then, but...

and... i get so incredibly frustrated at the idiots on WIP. People are calling in and bashing Utley. Ugh, gr, wtf!

Pitching Myers on short rest might be good for his ego and they may win, but he's still facing Maine. I think the best thing for Myers right now might be to get that easy game against the Nats then move him up for the next Mets series.

To me, it might depend on the situation when that day comes up. If the phils win 2 or 3 of the first 3, I'd probably keep Myers resting. If they drop 2 or 3, I'd probably pitch him.

I was mildly frustrated with Chase's lack of clutch hitting this weekend, but I'm not gonna persecute the guy for going into a mini-slump after his torrid hitting streak. These things are gonna happen, the question is are they the exception or the rule? It's during these points when the bottom of the order needs to produce a little.

Since his streak ended he's batting a paltry .273. I'll take that slump any day.

anybody that boo's chase is a moron and not worth oxygen.

Chase Utley is the least of the Phils' problems this weekend. Yeah he didn't go crazy but Utley wasn't on the mound pitching.

This same debate is happening on the Phils message board:

if you exclude Nunez, the bottom of the order has been producing much better lately. Lieberthal looks much better when he's platooning at catcher, and has gotten some thump back into his bat.

and, yes i agree that anyone who boo's utley is a moron... but, we live in the land of WIP with the god of all sports, Howard Eskin, whipping the idiots into a frenzy.

sometimes, i hate being a phan of all philly sports teams.

The offense is hte best offense in the majors since the all-star break, and that's even including the black holes of 8 and 9. Imagine if we had a 3B.

And imagine if we had better pitching.

Haven't listened to the Utley debate but I wouldn't take the WIP guys too seriously. Can't really blame them though, what better way to get listeners to call and increase ratings than by creating a controversy?

Kudos to Beerleaguer and its intelligent posters - we may debate ad nauseum on many points, but I doubt any fan who has watched the Phils all season would consider Chase a choker based on a couple of bad ABs.

Chase not clutch? The real morons are the ones that get sucked up in that debate; wtf, even Albert Pujols goes through a slump once in a while.

There is no reason to go after Chase. He nearly hit two homeruns yesterday. One was caught right up against the fence and the other was foul by about one foot. He would have been the toast of the town if either of those two went out. He hit them square and just missed. Bring on the Muts!

i think we need a committee of laws like the miller light commercials. beerleaguer rule #1 should be anyone who boos chase is a moron.

Yea, you right, Tim. So is Jon, VOR, Chris, Nick & MG. Chase walks hallowed ground.

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