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Monday, October 16, 2006


Nice to see that the "excitement" is gone and Jason is back to his good old fashioned hard criticism of the Phillies with this post and the last.

I'm assuming Gillick told Manuel he would be fired if he didn't accept these additions - why else would he agree to hire his likely replacements? This means the Phils will now have 4 managers or ex-managers on the roster...this must be a record. I'm excited for the move and only a cynic would suggest that this is management's attempt to deflect attention away from the lack of major signings in the offseason.

Also, good point on Conine in the last post...I didn't think much of the trade EXCEPT for his vesting option...we need to trade him now. And Jason, the Braves did more than think about not playing youngstes, they went out and signed two clones of Conine two years ago. In 2005, their opening day corner outfielders were Raul Mondesi and Brian Jordan. Francouer, Lagaerhans and Johnson were all on the bench. It took about two months of complete sucktitude for Cox to pull the trigger. I'm officially hoping for a Conine injury or trade.

Kdon: Great points. You even got Mondesi in there. Jordan is the perfect, steady clone of Conine, isn't he? The difference is that Francouer etc. are better than anything the Phillies have ... the closest is probably Bourn. Glad you got my point ... I'd hate to see months and months of aging mediocrity.

Nice to see that the "excitement" is gone...

Ladies and gentlemen, the current state of Phillies fans. We've been down so long, it looks like up to us.

I look at this as either being an awesome gathering of coaches, or as the old saying goes "too many cooks in the kitchen". I'll try to stay positive and look at it as the Phils just got a lot more experienced in the coaching department and even Manuel shouldn't be able to single-handily make dumbass decisions from here on out...guess it'll be a group effort. At least we get the feeling that Manuel's time is in his own hands now...must perform to keep job (or have team perform).

Upgrading the coaches is fine, but when you think about it, would any of these guys be a better manager than Charlie? Jimy Williams was one of the worst managers I've ever seen with the Red Sox. Just brutal. Howe is better, has been to postseason, but his overall record is sub-.500. Lopes managed some bad teams in Milwaukee so it's hard to judge him.

Wow, and I thought that Joe Torre in NY had losts of ex-managers around him!

I think this is a pretty shrewd move by Gillick to hire these guys. You can be sure that they will be harping the boys on 'fundamentals' this spring.

I quoted it because I think it has been an unknown word around these parts for a while!

Nice signing of coaches with proven pedigrees. I really like Howe and Lopes coming into the fold. I am indifferent on Williams, but am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. I wasn't crazy about him when he was with Boston. That being said, they all are better options than Manuel. I highly doubt Charlie makes it through next season. I still don't know how he and Dubee managed to keep their jobs. Too bad the Phillies can't cut their losses and bring in Girardi to manage.

The coaches are now in place. After the Tigers win the World Series, the Phils need to explore free agency early and aggressively. Being passive this year will only result in less of a selection of free agents available who can actually help this club.

I agree win your over/under JW. A bad April should get Cholly the boot.

i like all the signings.

a month is the perfect over under.

as for conine - i loved them getting him, but then they used him too much. he is a bench player at most - if he is howards protection, it's not good.

SOme of these guy should keep Cholly from overusing the relievers, sending a pinch hitter to bunt for Burrell, and maybe letting the starting pitcher pitch long enough into a game so the relievers don't kill us.

"These types of people can only give you comfort," Gillick said. "They have more ideas, more imagination, talk more baseball. These are the types of people we need on our staff for our manager to draw on."

Great. Now the Phillies have two coaches who refuse to say their last names with the correct Spanish pronunciation. Davey Lopes(see Felipe Lopez) and, of course, our lovable Alabama-Santa-Claus-minus-the-beard manager(see owner's manual).

"These are the types of people we need on our staff for our manager to draw on." Jeez, did Gillick actually *say* that? Why not just order a custom-made dunce hat for Manuel with a white 'P' on it? Better yet, why not just hire a manager that doesn't need ex-managers to consult, but can effectively do the job himself?

Well, whatever else you make of it, hiring these three coaches is a statement of some kind, for sure. But just as with everything else Gillick does, you don't know exactly what his intentions are.

Additional thought: it's almost as if Gillick feels the players like playing for Manuel, so he'll heep him around, but he also realizes the Manuel's shortcomings are game strategy and preparedness, so he hires Baseball Guy satellites to revolve around the big lovable teddy bear in the dugout. A curious arrangement, to say the least.

This has King Lear written all over it.

RSB - When the coaches were fired a few weeks ago, wasn't it obvious that this was the type of arrangement Gillick was looking for due to the very reasons you mentioned?

Jason, to comment on what you said in the last thread, I fail to see how anyone in a major-league uniform is going to stunt the growth of Bourn. He's Shane Victorino without the arm or the ability to get the ball over the fence. CBP is NOT the place to run an all-speed outfield out there. IMHO, Bourn starts the season at AAA and stays there until he learns the strike zone better.

As the Phillies GM, I watch the team for one full season, and what do I see from the coaching staff?

1) The manager is popular with his players, but is lacking in on-field decision-making skills. He is not a 'NL' manager.
2) The team didn't have a lot of speed, but what speed it did have was not used. There are a couple of younger players in the wings that do have some speed.
3) The team was fundamentally unsound, from bunting, baserunning, fielding and moving runners. This reflects on the minor league organization more than the players.
4) The team has the core talent to make the post-season. Some younger players need to develop further, and we need to fill a couple of holes from outside.

These are certainly not the only observations one could make, but they are a start.

So what to do? Hire coaches who are: 1)from outside the organization; 2) have big-league managing experience; 3) have NL experience; 3) can stress fundamentals; 4) can improve the running game; 5) can manage their egos enough to work together and with CM.

I do not know that any of those three, with perhaps the exception of Lopes, were hired to take over if CM got fired other than as interim managers. I think PG will again go outside for a 'winner' if he changes managers.

Christ no, anyone but Lopes. He was terrible in Milwaukee. If we choose a manager from this trio, my vote's for Howe.

Glad the Phils brought in some known commodities but it is going to be really ugly next year if the Phils struggle out of the gate. If Phils are 4 or 5 games under .500 in mid-May, Cholly is gone.

As for a replacement for Cholly, I am not crazy about any of these guys. Howe is a retread who's only success as a manager was in Oakland.

Lopez - Terrible manager in Milwaukee. Didn't develop any real direction on that team. Still, maybe he can teach some of the Phils better baserunning skills.

Williams - Decent manager but he always seems to quickly wear out his welcome where ever he is. Wasn't an awful manager in Boston (certainly better than Joe Kerrigan or Grady Little) but I was never a big fan of how he handled a bullpen or constantly tinkered with the lineup.

I still can't believe Marc Bombard is gone. He'll always be the manager of the future to me, but once out of Philly, will any other org take him seriously?

MG: Strongly disagree with you on Williams. He squandered great talent in Boston, repeatedly came up small in big situations.

It appears that Gillick let go three "no name" coaches that each had some history of minor league success and replaced them with three "name" coaches that each had some history of major league managerial experience. I'm hesitant to use the word "success" in describing the new guys.

I am not too thrilled with any of these guys as a successor to Cholly. Of the three, I feel best with Art Howe at the helm. I am indifferent about Lopes, but am definitely against Williams as Manager. Girardi is still out there.

Scranton manager John Russell will interview for the Rangers' job, according to one of the papers. He was on the list of candidates interviewed by the front office down in Florida.

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for this process.

blackmail wrote: "This has King Lear written all over it."

No, more like Julius Caesar.

Let's see, Williams will run Spring Training and in game tactics, Lopes will handle baserunning and Howe will be the 3b coach and handle the IF defensively. What exactly do we need Uncle Charlie for? He should be embarrased that Gillick brought these guys in and gave them this much responsibility. And yes, I know the Phils are saying Charlie hired these guys, but you can filed that under B or S.

Fred: Jimy WIlliams is the best of the lot. Art Howe was just the guy who filled out the lineup card in Oakland, Beane ran that team. Davy Lopes is just a good coach. Jimy has the cred, he led two different teams to the playoffs. He will be the next manager.

Perhaps we can call this "College of Coaches: Part 2?"

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