Game chat: Rivalry resumes today at Shea Stadium

[MLB Gameday] [Yahoo Boxscore]

Comments

[GM-Carson]

Regardless of the outcome, this is exciting and this is what baseball is about. With that said, the Phils better friggin' win!

[GM-Carson]

Can you post a link to a live feed please?

[Mike]

Working from home and no Comcast makes Mike a dull boy.

[Tony D]

These weekday day games means Tony is not getting any work done.

[Brian G]

Not crazy about having Moyer on the mound to start this series. Hopefully the wild Ollie Perez shows up to counter him.

And let's not forget, we're going for win #9 in a row against the Mets. Let's keep that streak goin boys.

[MG]

Let's hope the old man can at least go 5 today. I have my doubts.

[GM-Carson]

Beating the Mets is always so satisfying.

[CJ]

Re-posting from last thread:

Wes: I beg to differ. Feliz's offense has been as terrible as we suggested.

OPS: .596
OPS+: 55
OBP: .292
HR: 0
XBH: 1
BB: 1
K: 5

The only surprise is that he has just one GIDP (his first at bat).

I would imagine his glove will be better this year than it's been thus far. But if your bat is going to be as bad as his is, and will be, it's hard to accept even a week of defense this bad.

[Andy]

"old man can at least go 5"

MG - I'm beginning to wonder if the "master plan" is that when Benson is ready to re-enter the Majors, Condrey will be DFA'd, Eaton will stay in the rotation and Moyer will become a second bullpen lefty.

I'm not sure if that's wishful thinking or a reasonably consistent Gillick/Amaro strategy move.

From the Sun-Sentinal on Helms:

WASHINGTON - Pay no mind to that $2.15 million salary figure attached to Wes Helms this season. The Marlins aren't paying a nickel of it.

They didn't reacquire Helms for free, but this deal is another example of why the Marlins consistently get more per dollar than any organization in baseball.

According to a source familiar with the transaction, the Phillies agreed to pick up Helms' entire 2008 salary. Helms won't cost the Marlins anything during the season, but they will have to pay him $750,000 this offseason to buy out a $3.75 million club option. That is the final component of the two-year, $4.95 million contract Helms signed with the Phillies prior to 2007.

[Bob]

still don't understand why everyone is so concerned with pedro feliz' offense. he's the 7 hole hitter. we can't have an mvp candidate in every position!

[zp]

someone mentioned the iron pigs in the previous thread. looking at the box scores, it's not been too pretty. looks like chiavacci is the only started who has put in a decent start so far. real deal got knocked around in his start.

[zp]

on the plus side, reading is off to a great start.

[NCPhilly81]

ZP: the baseball players or the dance team?

[J. Weitzel]

Werth sixth, Feliz seventh today. I think Cholly is figuring out his third baseman's offensive limitations.

[diggitydave]

ugh, freakin mets announcers on MLB.tv today...

[JBrod]

Diggitydave: Be prepared for Keith, Ron, and Gary Cohen to complain about the "bandbox," CBP, every other inning.

[Mike]

Maybe Vic will catch fire this series.

[Andy]

C'mon, Chase. Hurt'em.

[GM-Carson]

In the Phillies lineup every spot in the order matters except for #9- the pitcher. Why? Because Howard and Burrell are on base machines and the people batting behind (ie. Pedro Feliz) will be up with men on base a lot.

[Andy]

Good sign. Perez's first curveball didn't curve.

[Wes Chamberlain]

Bob, Thank you for for being a voice of reason.

It is so true that the 7 hole hitter is normally not going to be a great hitter. However, the 7th hitter on Fantasy teams often is a really good hitter. I get the feeling a lot of people around here are big Fantasy players and have some trouble not carrying that mindset over to REAL baseball. You know the kind played on a field, not a stat sheet.

CJ--
I know those stats don't look great, but Pedro did have a key hit in the Washington comeback, which helped get the first win. He also has had a number a bases empty two out hits, which show up as little on a stat sheet, but those hits give the 8 hole hitter a chance to do something (Ruiz, has not taken advantage) and it also helps to turn over the lineup. So there is some value to his offense that isn't shown in the stats. It also seems he is being a little more selective at the plate, than many suggested. Like I originally said he hasn't been great offensively, but ok and better than some others in the line up. Better than Victorino, Ruiz, and wait for it....Howard. Of course I believe by the end of the season those three will have picked it up and have better seasons than Pedro.

My main point was people needed to chill out a little on Pedro and give him a little credit when it is due.

[Andy]

(that was first curve ball to Utley)

Okay. Brawl time!

[PhillR]

Ollie's slider is not working at all. Phillies will probably light him up today.

[Mike]

They have to make Perez work this game. He looks Gameday wild early on.

[GM-Carson]

Andy- you jinxed Chase, he got plunked and now may be hurt instead of hurting the Mets.

[Andy]

Yeah. Carson. My bad.

How about "hurt'em Jose!"?

[Mike]

Argh. Wasted opportunity to get on the board there.

[diggitydave]

JBrod-
1/2 inning down, already one complaint about "the bandbox"

I hate these Mets announcers...

[JZ]

Where was the third strike on Burrell?

[GM-Carson]

I hate wasted opportunities, especially of strike 3's watching.

[bay_area_phan]

At least they made him throw 20 pitches. Now it is imperative that Moyer have a decent game and not get lit up like last time.

[CJ]

Wes: Except he HASN'T been better than Howard... unless you live in some bizarro baseball world where batting average is the only stat that matters. Despite his slow start, Howard's OPS+ is 84... significantly higher than Feliz's OPS+ of 55.

I'm just not sure what credit we're supposed to give him. He's got a couple of base knocks this year. Whoopee. His glove has been worse than advertised... which isn't even debatable. Where does he get credit? Bat bad. Questionable glove. Does he have some kind of awesome intangible I'm missing?

[CJ]

Chase didn't really get hit. The ball brushed his jersey. Enough to get on base, but certainly not something that will hurt him.

[diggitydave]

damn, if he's not getting those calls an inch or two off the plate, could be a long day for Jamie...

[Andy]

It certainly looks like Moyer is tossing to a dinner plate size strike zone.

[CJ]

Yeah, pretty disappointed in the ump myself. Especially after that strike 2 call to Pat the Bat (third strike was a no doubt about it). Moyer deserves the same strike zone.

[patrick]

Encouraging start by Moyer.

[Sophist]

Moyer looked sharp and deliberate in the first. Wasn't getting his strike on the left side of the plate called, but got through the inning relatively easily anyway. Really slowed the game down once Castillo got on first.

[clout]

Wes: Feliz was the worst offensive thirdbaseman in the NL last year. You could look it up, assuming you know how.

[patrick]

Let's go Pedro

[GM-Carson]

Only 1 inning, there's plenty more game to play...

[TarheelPhan]

Wow, according to Gamecast, Werth just had a 36-pitch at bat!

[GM-Carson]

I'd love nothing more than a Pedro homerun right now. Not because I like...I don't. But because I love the Phils and root my ass off for them, even the crappy ones (this excludes David Bell).

[patrick]

Abraham Nunez had to be worse offensively than Feliz. It seems Lil Abe had a better glove though so far.

[JZ]

I have a feeling, based on no stats or facts, that Feliz will help more than hurt in this series.

It's also frustrating to read so much loathing of him already this season. New team. High expectations. He's obviously pressing.

Even with the early-season issues, he's better than what they had.

[CJ]

And Feliz comes through with his second DP of the season. And here I was praising him for just having one this year.

[GM-Carson]

that should read- "like him"

[JZ]

Of course he hits into a double play as soon as I defend him. Pedro! You suck!

[Andy]

Tarheel: Werth is patient...but not THAT patient.

[MPN]

And Feliz is the cause of cancer, steals candy from children, and kicks puppies, too!

[Sophist]

To be fair to Feliz, he hit a sharp ground ball right down the first-base line. If Delgado is playing off the bag at all, Werth is on third. It wasn't a little bouncer to second or short. A GIDP nonetheless.

[diggitydave]

I'm curious if on gamecast, Moyer's pitches that nibble around the plate look like balls or strikes. Because those are pitches that are usually called strikes (especially for a pitcher like Maddux or Glavine who made their living off of nibbling off the plate...)

[patrick]

Stop the bleeding now!

[TarheelPhan]

I suspected as much, especially considering Perez's PC is only at 32. I'd bet that'd be some kind of record.

[CJ]

JZ: I'm not sure he's better thus far than what we had. Both Dobbs and Helms had better OPS+'s than Feliz has so far this year. Even No Hit Nunez's 2007 is matching Feliz's performance thus far.

I'd like nothing more than to see Feliz come through. But I have absolutely no confidence that he will do so.

[Mike]

Nuts.

[bay_area_phan]

JZ: He's not pressing. He just sucks. Coming into today, his batting average and slugging percentage were actually higher than his career averages. He's actually out-performing expectations at the plate.

That last DP, however, can't really be held against him. He hit the ball hard, just to the wrong place.

[Wes Chamberlain]

CJ--
Well I guess if the only stat you count is OPS+. But how about you take into consideration that Howard has 10 Ks, and 2 RBIs (same as Pedro), and has left an aweful lot of runners on base so far. And all that from your cleanup hitter, as opposed to your 7th hitter. And That GIDP didn't help my argument much.

Anyway, my original point about Pedro was that people shouldn't kill his defensive performance based on a bad week, played in pretty crappy weather. He is a good defender and will be a huge upgrade over last years defense.

[Mike Cunningham]

if you have such terrible career numbers against Delgado. Why would you even pitch to him...

We pitched around a journeyman catcher ALL weekend... But Delgado, gets a meatball?

I blame Dubee.

[GM-Carson]

Freakin' Delgado- hate him!

[Skeeter]

Schneider scares me....always a Phillie killer.

[GM-Carson]

Mike- Dubee deserves more blame, I agree.

[GM-Carson]

Skeeter! What's up bro?

[Andy]

MPN!! I already was hiding my puppy, but I didn't know that about the candy!!

[BENTZ]

2 HBP already...of course Moyer wouldn't hurt anyone with a pitch and Perez could hit 6 batters in a row and he's so wild at times that probably none would be intentional...

[bay_area_phan]

Wes: No argument here. Howard has sucked too. The difference is that Howard's career norms say that he'll come around & be a hugely productive offensive player. Feliz's career norms say that this is about as good as it's going to get.

[GM-Carson]

Howard is awesome. Yes he's sucked so far, but to even suggest he won't go Yahtzee! this season is ludicrous.

[clout]

MPN: You're still sleeping with his photo under your pillow aren't you?

[bay_area_phan]

Sorry. This is pitiful.

[Andy]

Way to work the count, Shane.

[naylman]

Shane doing a great job of making Perez throw pitches. He just looks so lost right now, even his hit was a bloop.

[Wes Chamberlain]

BAP--

You may have missed my orginal post in the other thread, but thank you for making my point.

This started as me defending Feliz' defense. Just like Howard will come around to his career norm with his bat, Feliz will come around to his norm with the glove. So people need to chill out about his defense.

CJ picked up on the offensive argument, where I said that Pedro has been ok with the bat, which he has. And I do believe that Howard will come around, but you have to admit he has been pretty bad so far.

[diggitydave]

Oliver Perez could barely get a ball over the plate against Jamie or Jimmy, and Shane goes up there hacking at the first pitch. Sometimes I wonder if these guys know anything about the game

[MPN]

GM Carson: Did clout ever settle his bet with you or is he still a welcher?

clout: Yes.

[kells]

Victorino's last at bat sums him up.
Against Perez who is an eratic pitcher w/ 2 out's & no one on.
1)Vic swings at the first pitch
2)Pops the ball up swinging for the fences. Put the F..n ball on the ground. You are 5'9 160 wet. YOU are not a homerun hitter.

[PhillyFriar]

I know Victorino needed to play today because we faced a LHP, but he needs to sit tomorrow to get his head straight. His swings have been awful to start the year.

[GM-Carson]

I don't want to be negative, but c'mon, enough with making Ollie effectively wild already.

[Andy]

Somebody knock that Hawaiian on top of his batting helmet with a souvenir bat.

{insert whomps between sentences: }
It's. A. Mostly. Wild. Pitcher. You're. In a. Major. Slump. Don't. Pop. The. First. Pitch. Up.

[clout]

Wes: If you think Feliz last year was "ok with the bat" you really aren't living in the real world or are unfamiliar with baseball stats.

[Andy]

Friar - I'd much rather see Taguchi in there against a lefty at this point.

[GM-Carson]

No, Clout never got me that steak dinner at Morton's. I said he could buy my son Phillies gear instead, but that's negatory as well.

[diggitydave]

O baby i felt the ground shake when Howard flopped all the way up here in Boston

[CJ]

Wes: But it's ludicrous to suggest Feliz has been okay with the bat. That's the flaw in your argument.

If you want to say that Feliz's glove will come around, fine... argue that. I don't have as much faith in defensive metrics which suggest someone has a career norm on defense. However batting metrics are rather predictive.

And Howard doesn't just exceed Feliz in OPS+, it's OPS, OBP, SLG, HRs, BB's. Good luck arguing that Feliz is doing better offensively than Howard so far this year.

[PhillyFriar]

Andy: I'll concede that, I can just understand why Cholly stuck with him today. But he absolutely NEEDS to sit tomorrow, no doubt about it.

[Andy]

Gameday has Moyer's curve kinda stumbling in at about 66 mph. And it still lists all his other pitches as "change-ups."

[GM-Carson]

Vic's splits suggest he's better against lefties though - .794 OPS opposed to a low .705 OPS against righties.

[MPN]

GM Carson: Sounds like unaccountability to me.

[Mike]

Chase must have a bullseye on his back. Geez.

[Mike Cunningham]

Atlanta hits Chase more than any other team. Washington is second (until today.)

This is the 6th time Chase has been hit at Shea compared with 2 times at CBP versus the MUTS.

[GM-Carson]

There very well may be a brawl yet...

[NCPhilly81]

Was a warning issued after that plunk?

[bay_area_phan]

I'm no Howard basher, but his ineptitude against left-handers is a critical flaw in his game, which substantially diminshes his overall value.

[GM-Carson]

Seriously Howard, let's go! You got paid, now time to "pay it forward".

[CJ]

Chase wasn't exactly "plunked" that time either. Perez is wild with his slider, which is staying inside to lefties and outside to righties without coming back over the plate. There's no need for a warning.

[Andy]

You would think that a team with injury problems would not be throwing at another team's star players. When Moyer is due to exit the game, he needs to throw one of his last pitches at:
a) Willie Randolf or
b) Mr. Met

[diggitydave]

No warning was issued after that plunk. The three HBP's thus far have all been very innocuous, barely grazing the jerseys of Utley and the Mets hitter

[J. Weitzel]

Just a lot of early inconsistency from too many players on offense. It's pretty much been longball, nothing, longball, nothing ...

[johnnysanz3]

This guy is just throwing balls and the Phillies are bailing him out.

[Andy]

okay. They've all been innocuous accidents.

.

I'd still throw at Mr. Met.