Game chat: Tough left-handers tango in Philadelphia

Cole Hamels (1-1, 1.20 ERA) and Ted Lilly (0-1, 9.72 ERA) toe the rubber when the Cubs and Phillies resume their series at Citizens Bank Park. First pitch is 7:05 ET. Summary: Lilly earns my vote for putting in the best single pitching performance against the Phillies last season, dominating them for eight innings back on May 13. Lifetime against the Phils, he's 1-1 with a 3.46 ERA in two starts. This should be a tight pitching match-up. Enjoy the game.

Comments

[CJ]

Sure would be nice to get a win tonight...

[clout]

Dialogue worth repeating from end of last thread:

Frankly, I'm not all that concerned about Gavin Floyd becoming anything. He had plenty of chances here and failed rather consistently. You can't wait forever on a guy. He may well have a couple of good starts in him, but I don't see any great success in his future. If he proves me wrong, so be it... but I'm not losing any sleep over losing Gavin Floyd.

Posted by: CJ | Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 05:50 PM

CJ: I agree and disagree with you. I agree that you can't wait forever on a guy. I also agree that Floyd had a real fair shot here and didn't impress. Some guys just need a change of scenery to kick it into gear.

Here's where we disagree: I think he's going to be quite good. And the return on what the Phillies got for Gio and Floyd speaks for itself, as all Phillies trades speak for themselves. And for the competence of the GM.

Posted by: clout | Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 06:09 PM

[GM-Carson]

From Buster Olney's blog today-
• Since July 1 of last year, Pat Burrell is hitting .312, with 28 homers and 77 RBIs in 295 at-bats.

[GM-Carson]

Sucks that Jimmy is out yet again. I've come to depend on him in the lineup everyday and I feel a bit lost without him.

[PeachBuckle]

Yippee! The game is on Philly57 tonight; a joy for myself and the 3 other baseball fans who don't have cable or satellite...

[Sophist]

lineup according to ESPN.com

Vic
Werth
Utley
Howard
Burrell
Feliz
Ruiz
Bruntlett
Hamels

Soriano
Johnson
Lee
Ramirez
Soto
DeRosa
Cedeno
Theriot
Theodore Roosevelt Lilly

[Run Up The Score]

Gavin Friggin' Floyd?

Let's go Phils! Let go Cole!

[Run Up The Score]

No, no. Let's go Cole. I think we should probably keep that guy.

[The Theory]

Where is this game on the television??

[ZT]

on CW, comcast changed all the channels around for me so if you're in the south jersey area its channel 13

[The Theory]

Thanks ZT.

[Spitz]

Howard looks to be carrying more weight than the last two years. Is it just me, or has he let the midsection go?

[Malcolm]

Oh, Ryan Howard struck out. Tell me something I don't know.

[Malcolm]

Wow what a catch, Shane.

[johnnysanz3]

Maybe Howard thinks each strikeout earns him more money?

[Ben]

PEDRO!!!

[Sophist]

Hopefully the first of many PtBB into Feliz homers to left of the year at CBP

[Malcolm]

Hey! Pedro! (I knew he'd hit one out.)

[johnnysanz3]

That's what Howard needs to do..oh damn, that was Pedro Feliz LOL

[ZT]

Look at Cole!

[The Theory]

Cole Hamels knows how to hit, hoy howdy!

[Sophist]

Cole is just a superior athelete

[johnnysanz3]

Hamels wants to make sure he stays the pitcher with best ERA and the hitter with the best avg.

[johnnysanz3]

Werth is awesome at the plate against lefthanders.

[johnnysanz3]

Washington really sucks. How did we lose 2 games to them?

[Malcolm]

That was a beautiful swing by Hamels. Shame we couldn't plate anyone with that flourish, but Lilly owns Utley - I understand why he'd want to swing early at the best thing he saw.

[brother]

Feliz has 2 homers already this year. Last year, Wes Helms didn't hit his first homer until June 13.

[Mike Cunningham]

@malcom -- agreed... that was a sweet swing.

[Malcolm]

brother, meet the can of worms. Can, brother.

[college phan]

boy does howard look awful, what was that a 3-pitch at-bat

[Malcolm]

I love Ryan Howard.

[Andy]

I will admit that, when Feliz knocks one, it sure feels like a bonus.

[fuzzycopper]

Hearing that Howard was second in the league made me wonder who was first. The answer: Chris Young of Arizona.

Be glad we're not Oakland fans, though, as they have four guys in the top 13 in strikeouts in the majors! Sheesh.

[brother]

Ha ha, I don't mean to stir anything up. Feliz has his... weaknesses, no doubt about it, like getting on base at a normal pace. But he has pop and a good glove, and that beats the 07 version of Wes Helms. Whether that's worth what they're paying him is a different story.

[Andy]

I was just looking at that catch by Vic. It's interesting to watch how he knows he's close to that jaggy corner and he kinda slows to feel for the track, but never really loses track of the ball.

I love him as a CF. If he can get his OPS+ up near 100 for five or six seasons we'll all think of him as Maddox II.

[Andy]

Hamels looks to have a truly filthy change tonight. I love the way he blew away Johnson with nothing bu7 slow stuff.

[clout]

borther: Helms was not the everyday thirdbaseman last season. He was a platoon player. He platooned with Dobbs mostly. Comparing Feliz's numbers to the Dobbs/Helms combo is more accurate.

[Malcolm]

That last changeup to Ramirez was naaaasty. Also, Feliz has a hell of a cannon arm. He just cocks and rifles.

[Malcolm]

And the can has been opened, courtesy Clout. Brother: Don't come back with anything.

[college phan]

Feliz made that last play look real easy. I hope his two errors this season were more the exception than the norm

[Jack]

College Phan: They are.

Clout: Will you give Feliz credit when its due? Or do home runs and good fielding plays not count?

[college phan]

there you go bruntlett!

[ZT]

Bruntlett knows how to play defense now, huh?

[johnnysanz3]

It's too bad Hamels pitch count is getting up there, pitching great.

[clout]

Jack: There's never been debate about his good fielding. And he will hit a HR in 3.4% of his plate appearances, just as he will make an out in 82% of them.

The debate is about whether he's a Gold Glove slugging stud, as you say, or the worst everyday offensive thirdbaseman in the NL, as I say.

[johnnysanz3]

I don't think anyone says he is a Gold Glove slugging stud.

[Andy]

About time the bearded Veal Bruntlett did something.

[brother]

Time to pad the lead, fellas.

[Andy]

Speaking of Gold Glove slugging studs, it looks like Vics outta his slump.

[Mark B.]

Good game for Myers last night. And Burrell looks great. Hamels lookin' good so far tonight. Starting rotation rounding into shape. Go Phillies.

[Andy]

(The comment on our garden gnome was in regards to his nice fielding play.)

[Andy]

Vic looks runnerish, Whitey.

[John D]

Greeting from Miami Beach everyone.

The mlb audio package was the best investment ive made since moving down here, as it seems they've locked up all the streams on the local stations.

If we finish .500 in April, can we concede this team is better than last year, or is that wishful thinking?

[Andy]

Jayson Werth has seen twenty pitches in 3 PAs tonight.

[MG]

Feliz has to play though at a Gold Glove caliber-level defense and hit 25 HRs or so this year to justify his value. My bet is we won't do either.

Feliz is a useful player but there is absolutely no reason why he should start 140-145 games at 3B. None. Against LHP, fine. Like last night though I want to see Dobbs in their though more often than 1/once a week against RHP. Feliz just gives away too many ABs.

[brother]

Andy, not too shabby...

[Andy]

Hah. And Lilly thought he owned him.

[MG]

Time for Howard to do something. He has been killing this offense so far.

[clout]

MG: I'd run a straight Dobbs/Feliz platoon out there. The offense generated would more than offset what you lose on defense.

[ZT]

There you go Howard

[Malcolm]

THERE WE GO.

[kells]

CBP homers are a joke! We'll take it.
I'll take 2 k's for each homerun.
I like werth in the 2 hole vs lefties

[college phan]

That's it Ryno! Gosh, I criticize his 3-pitch at-bat two innings ago, and now he takes the ball out of the park. Some games, this guy is literally hit or miss

[J. Weitzel]

Yesssss!

[John D]

There you go big fella...very encouraging to see the phils beat up on Lilly this year. He owned us last year if I remember correctly.

[NCPhilly81]

Two strike homerun. Attaboy, Howard!

[MG]

Alright. Breaking this game open and will allow Hamels to rear back with some more fastballs in the 6th and hopefully 7th.

Clout - If Kendrick or Moyer starting, I would go with Feliz most times out there. Both of them tend to induce their share of grounders to the right side and Dobbs is pretty poor at 3B. Never understood why Helms got blasted last year so much but you hardly heard a mention about Dobbs' defensive deficiencies.

[John D]

Anyone else notice LaTroy Hawkins is sporting a comendable 15.75 ERA?

[clout]

CBP sure plays different when it's 72 degrees and humid.

[johnnysanz3]

I've noticed a trend...both times Feliz hit a home run, Howard was embarassed and hit one after him in the same game.

[Malcolm]

GIDP, Pedro. Offff course.

[clout]

MG: Here's how to decide if that's right: How many ground balls are hit to third base per game when Moyer or KK pitch? Then, how many of those ground balls would be caught by Feliz and missed by Dobbs?

[Andy]

MG - this year, so far, I wouldn't worry about putting Feliz out there for Kendrick - I'd just be sure to have good OF defense.

But I might consider it for Myers. Did anyone notice how many grounders he got last night. Bizarre.

[MG]

My money is here that Hamels is able to add a K or two the next 2 innings. Throw first strike fastballs and should be able to get alot of favorable counts.

[johnnysanz3]

I've definetely liked Hamel's outings so far... looks like he's not messing around about a cy young

[kells]

I agree w/ clout regarding the platoon of Feliz & Dobbs. Maybe 60/40 Feliz w/ Moyer on the mound. One random note. Security should remove any fan at CBP that is on their cell phone & waving at the TV camera.
I think Victorino is proving that he is a better CF than Rowand. I argued this point w/ Marcus Hayes last year.

[Andy]

Whatcha think, four more change-ups to Johnson?

[Andy]

Guess not.

[johnnysanz3]

What's victorino's competition for gold glove in CF this year?

[Malcolm]

Shane covers it so well out there. I thought about Maddox and his great nickname, "The Secretary of Defense," and it made me realize how many great nicknames the Phils have:

- The Bat
- The Flyin' Hawaiian
- Chooch
- Hollywood
- Wifebeater (ha)

[MG]

Clout - You have a point. It is not really straight forward though because you throw a bunch of things into it. My only point is that Feliz shouldn't be the everyday 3B by default and start 140-145 games this year. Especially against tough RHP who just chew up Feliz.

Unfortunately, I think you are going to see that happen although Dobbs should get more than just a handful of starts all year at 3B.

[NCPhilly81]

And that is why you always run hard, even on what appears to be a routine groundout.

[MG]

Point on Victorino though and why defense is so tough to judge:

He plays very shallow in CF and uses his great speed/range to track down flies over his head. In fact, he looks pretty damn spectacular sometimes. If he were playing deeper though, the play might look more routine.

I am willing to bet that he has more range than Rowand did last year (and will ultimately get to a handful of more balls) but those catches just look a lot more spectacular because he snags them while going full-out at times.

[johnnysanz3]

Ya true, but since he plays so shallow, that basically means no one is gonna get a cheap hit blooper in CF, which is nice.

[Greg]

Why did Victorino get pulled?

[andrew]

hey what's up with vic...wgn announcers are saying he limped to first

[fuzzycopper]

Vic: Left with a "right calf strain"

[andrew]

right calf strain

[johnnysanz3]

Didn't Victorino have a calf strain last year too? That's what Phillies radio just said he left the game for.

[ben]

we just became the slowest team in baseball

[johnnysanz3]

Lol, good point Ben, I didn't even realize that, no Rollins, no Vic..haha

[Scott]

Tigers are still slower, Ben.

[ben]

i guess this means so taguchi will lead off tomorrow...great

[johnnysanz3]

3 straight ace performances by Hamels. Looks like big things for him this year.

[ben]

fair enough, slowest in the NL then

[MG]

Another tremendous outing from Hamels. Pitching as well as any starter in the NL now. When is the last time a Phils' starter opened a season with such great outings in his first 3-4 starts?

[Malcolm]

Obviously Vic is no Rollins, but we can't lose him for long. Hopefully it's nothing major. Geez, I hate injuries.

[MG]

Victorino did hurt his calf last year. Have to wait and hear more world on how serious it is.

[Scott]

Werth has gone to 2 strikes in all 4 at bats tonight, and that's the first time he's struck out. He still made him throw a lot of pitches again.

[johnnysanz3]

They should sign Hamels to a long term deal before he wants 20mil/year haha