Game chat: Phillies start four-game set in desert

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[Andy]

Parker - In case I forgot to mention it. That Moyer guy? The old left-hander?
Worthless.

[Bill]

I am not sure if Moyer is worthless, as he is good for our young pitchers, but he is at best a number 5 pitcher that can be counted on to pitch 5 to 6 innings and give up 3 to 4 runs. Using him in the 3 spot exposes the fact that he is well past his prime and it may be time to consider retirement.

The real problem is that with Eaton, Kendrick, and Moyer, the team has 3 number 5 starters.

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[Andy]

b-a-p:
from the last thread - you can do the draft pick thing on B-Ref, with a lot more permutations as well - like who were the 12th round picks in, say 1998? - you can get that. Or all of a teams first round picks, or all their picks for a year. They print in bold the ones who have, at least, sipped the java.

[Andy]

Bill - go read the last, say, twenty posts on last night's game thread.

BTW: Howard in Arizona? Worthless.

[KidCarnivore]

I don't know if I missed this in another thread, but ESPN reported that JRoll went 4-4 for the Threshers.

[NCPhilly]

Anyone want Jacque Jones? http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080505&content_id=2645662&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Andy: Oh yeah, can't forget to reverse jinx. This time pre-game instead of doing it in the 9th inning. Except, that I can't actually mention the word jinx or it negates the effect. So this is not a reverse jinx, except in some opposite, parallel universe that doesn't exist.

Jaime Moyer: Retire, you stink.

Phillies Lineup: I anticipate 3 hits, 14 K's. Bums!! All of em!!

Max Scherzer: May be god's gift to the game of baseball. Wait, I should up the K total. 17-20. 2 Hits.

D-Backs Lineup: Possibly the most athletic, and talented lineup I have ever seen. (Note: This might actually be true). 20 runs scored tonight.

[Andy]

Carnivore: someone mentioned it; but I'm glad you brought it up. Putting J-Roll against minor leaguers is, to say the least, unfair. Truly. A more traditional slugger like PtB or Howard might K. Even Utley might be more interested in testing out the wounded parts. Jimmy's such a competitor, he'd just take it to'em. Musta been fun to watch.

[Andy]

NCPhilly:
Got a feeling that Detroit stuck in the fork. At 33 with consistently declining numbers in just about every area of play? Not this time.

[Dave X]

No reverse jinx is really good unless bruceg comes.

[fljerry]

You think maybe the scouts have picked up something that Howard is doing wrong and Howard may not be as good as we think he is.
Howard at this time looks like another Adam Dunn. Its actually a wonder that Phils are in first place since we have so many automatic outs in our lineup (including Howard). Burrell should now be batting 4th and move Howard to 5th. they can now pitch around Utley but with Burrell there, they can't. I myself was not a big Burrell fan but he sure has changed me. He looks like an excellent hitter up there.

[J. Weitzel]

I really dig the name "Max Scherzer." Awesome name. Scouting mags saw him as a future closer, but Arizona saw it differently I guess. Not long ago, he was clocked around 89-93, I ready, which put him in the good, not great category. Since then, I suppose he's discovered what it takes to achieve Max Scherzer. Here's hoping the tortoise beats the hare tonight.

[Jeltz for the Hall]

For those of you watching tonight's game...be prepared to be dazzled by Scherzer absolutely filthy stuff (I saw him pitch his 4.1 innings of sick relief the other day). The kid is 6'3", 215 and throws from a 3/4 arm slot, which makes it hard for the hitters to pick up. He has a fastball that is consistently in the mid to high 90's and his change-up and slider are plus pitches as well.

I'm thinking Ryno might have another difficult night at the plate.

[Dave X]

The Diamondback in the lineup with the lowest batting average, Mark Reynolds, is hitting .236. Thats better than 5/8 of our lineup today (pitchers excluded).

[Andy]

Yup, Dave X, as Parker noted the Snakes are golden gods waiting to happen. I expect they will beat on the Phils like they're playing wac-a-mole. Meanwhile, the Phils' line-up? Worthless.

Howard will have seven strike-outs in three at-bats.

[king myno]

Feliz will have eight strike-outs in three at-bats. Anyone want to take bets on how bad Scherzer will destroy him tonight?

[JD]

Love means never having to say you're sorry....being a Phillies fan means never having to say you're happy.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

As nasty as Lincecum is /was, this guy looks more dirty. I didn't watch the 4 inning appearance the other night, but I saw highlights. His fastball not only is coming in at about 98 MPH, but it has incredible movement running in on RH, away from LH. Apparently he can throw a sinking fastball at 98 MPH. He also apparently can throw a slider that goes high 80's.

BTW: These statements were not part of the non-attempt at a non-jinx performed earlier. This is really what I have read and seen. Honestly, it sounds like he is Fausto Carmona, with a weirder arm angle.

[clout]

king myno: Can you or anyone else here explain to me why Feliz starts against hard-throwing tough RHPs who sometimes have control issues instead of Dobbs? What is the thought process?

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

In hindsight:

How bad was Joe Crede's defense? How much would it have taken to get him?

[The Theory]

clout- "thought process"??? You're giving Manuel way too much credit here. It's all about the gut, man.

[clout]

One thing about Moyer, he's pretty consistent. Here's his ERA+ for last few seasons:

2005....98
2006...104
2007....92
2008....97

If you average the high and low you get 98. His career is a bit higher (105) than that but he's nearing the end of the trail so the dropoff is to be expected. I think those numbers compare favorably to most #4 and #5 starters.

[duder- WA]

Considering this is his 1st start ever, Scherzer may be nervous early. Let's hope so. The Phils defense needs to be on tonight- no mistakes. With Moyer, a lot of balls will be in play.

[king myno]

clout: I wish I had a good answer for you. Unfortunately, I do have a bad answer for you, and it's probably what Cholly would say if you had the chance to ask him: Pedro's "sterling" defense behind Moyer. Let's hope it saves us some of those mysterious runs that the pro-Feliz camp used to talk about, and let's hope those runs compensate for his presumed 0-4 day.

[clout]

Parker: Crede is an excellent defensive thirdbaseman. I'd put him among upper third in the AL. Although the Sox were trying to move him in the offseason (he'll be a free agent at year's end and Boras is his agent and they have a great prospect in Josh Fields ready to take over) he would cost a good prospect or two I think.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

I've never checked his defensive stats, I just remember somebody saying that he wouldn't be much of an upgrade over Dobb's defensively. His RH power bat would have sure fit nicely into this lineup.

[clout]

The D'Backs have 4 of the best young position players in the league in Upton, Jackson, Young & Drew. If they stay healthy in another 3-4 years they will be very very tough.

[stevo]

Guys, good news. I just came from a Reading Phillies game and Carlos Corrasco was dazzling. His fastball was consistently in the 94-95 range, but he was making guys miss badly on offspeed stuff. To me, he looked like a guy ready for promotion to the next level. My fear, though, is that he wil go to the Bermuda Triangle that is Coca-Cola Park,where the LV Ironpigs play, and never be seen or heard from again.

[clout]

Parker: Whoever said that doesn't know what they're talking about. He's a very good defensive thirdbaseman.

[bay_area_phan]

This may sound like an odd statement from someone going by the handle Bay Area Phan, but I can't stand these West Coast starting times. Doesn't work with my scheduling at all.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

BAP: you are not near the Bay of Biscay? Right?

[king myno]

The only reason I can think that Feliz is starting against a righty is because Manuel isn't ready to admit that we have a platoon at third. Maybe when Howard finally passes Feliz's terrific OPS (.649 to .645 as of right now), Charlie will turn his attention to the black hole at third base.

[Ribbies]

Nice! Glad to see we were able to get something out of this early wildness.

[AWH the RBP]

Pat is "timing him up".

[Gman]

Manuel plays Feliz at 3b when Moyer pitches, because of all the ground balls to 3b that Moyer gets.

[MG]

This DBacks lineup though is vastly overrated. Better than league average? Sure and it is likely that some of their young hitters might take some steps forward this year.

It still is a lineup thought that is doesn't have a ton of power and has some hitters who are very streaky. Phils might be catching them at a good time since it looks like they may be coming back to earth a bit the past week or so. Hopefully I don't eat crow.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Well, one thing is for sure, Howard is having no problems turning on a fastball. Turned that one around coming in at 96.

[AWH the RBP]

OK, I'll stick my neck out:

If Scherzer tries to live with his fastball against this lineup, he could have a very long....er I mean short night.

He does bring it though.

Also, we need a good outing from Moyer. DuuuhH.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

MG: Be careful, you may reverse the non-jinx.

[MG]

Nice job there by Howard to hit the Sac Fly. Scherzer has great raw stuff but he is a thrower at this point and not a pitcher. One advantage that Lincecum has is that he has a little seasoning now and was able to successfully pitch out of the stretch for most of the game yesterday.

Doubt that Scherzer will be able to do that same at this point in his career if he is forced to tonight by the Phils. Getting that leadoff man on is going to be huge.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Connor Jackson looks like Cole Hamels big brother.

[MG]

Parker - Jinx or no jinx this is a nice leadup for Moyer to face tonight. Bunch of guys who have had minimal exposure to him and some veterans (including Hudson) who are real free swingers.

As long as Phils play solid defense behind Moyer tonight, I like Gramps chance of turning in one of his effective outings with the occasional hard hit ball.

[MG]

Jenkins has been a dud so far with this team. He was lucky that the Velez screwed up the grounder yesterday in the 9th because Jenkins would have been a real goat otherwise.

[drake]

i'm glad the d-backs changed their uniforms, they actually look like a major league team now.

[Bonehead]

Is it time yet for Feliz to be this year's Nunez....3B for Moyer and tough lefties?

[king myno]

Again, why is Pedro Feliz in today? Until they rename the Gold Glove the Pedro Feliz, he should not play against fastball-throwing righties.

[drake]

nice rip, grandpa!

[Bonehead]

Feliz HAS to play when Moyer starts. Dobbs is shaky on every grounder to him.

[drake]

at this point, i'd go with a strict platoon, starting dobbs against ALL righties

[diggitydave]

Howard could take a page out of ol' Jamie's book at the plate, huh??

[The Theory]

I wonder if Dobbs would have gotten that?

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Very good maneuver there by Chase to avoid injury.

[drake]

i'll give him credit for that one, nice pick pedro!

[brother]

I guess that's why.

[Hope springs eternal]

Guess that's why Feliz is playing.

[diggitydave]

That friggin' Drew family continues to infuriate us

[birds]

nice play by feliz.

dobbs is less likely to make that play.

[curt]

With Moyer out there, 1 is all we need.

[curt]

Guess not.

[doubleh]

I hate both Drews...

[drake]

scherzer is no match for the mighty uts!

[doubleh]

Come on, PtB, go get 'em!

[johnnysanz3]

We may have found Manchine's nemesis.

[KidCarnivore]

Nice!

[drake]

maybe jenkins just hates april

[Ribbies]

Nice Geoffrey! Now, let's get happy!

[johnnysanz3]

Seems like the Phillies lefties are doing pretty well against Max.

[Ribbies]

Suddenly Howard is fleet of foot, and it scores him a run.

[diggitydave]

Senor out taketh, and Senor out giveth away

[CubeHostage]

well well well

[doubleh]

Feliz smoked it, but Drew probably should have had it. That makes up for his hit. Almost.

[KidCarnivore]

think ESPN is ready to take back any of the twelve Cy Youngs they've given Shertzer since this morning?

[diggitydave]

yikes, messed that one up.. I sound a little like Cholly right there...

O well, vamos pedro!

[drake]

well, i've noticed ryan's been wearing one of those caps rollins always wears, maybe those have special speed powers

[The Theory]

So, I love scoring runs this way. Makes me all warm and happy inside.

[Ribbies]

Hooray for small ball!

[brother]

This is nice, real nice. Phils have the hitting shoes on today. Chooch!

[AWH the RBP]

KidC, I was thinking the same thing myself. They seemed to anoint him the second coming before his second MLB outing.

[doubleh]

I think it's safe to say that if the pitcher gets 2 hits off of you, you aren't as good as advertised...yet.

[KidCarnivore]

It's way, way too early, but if we can knock him around these first fw innings, we've really got a shot at stealing one here...

[drake]

look at the old man going opposite field!

[curt]

The Mendoza Squad strikes...

[NCPhilly]

45 year-old instant offense!

[brother]

JAMIE, YEAH!

[johnnysanz3]

Seems like back to the bullpen for this kid! Jamie Moyer can hit one hard enough for a double???

[doubleh]

I seem to recall the Phils doing the same thing to Lincecum in his first outing last year...

[JD]

Jamie is looking like Don Drysdale at the plate.

[CubeHostage]

carlos! carlos!

has anybody else listened to the lastest Philscast? the host, jon infante, proposed the idea that the Phils ought to trade ruiz this season to bring back a good prospect because he doesn't think he'll ever hit.

i think he's wrong. if something happens to one of our guys and a hole opens up, then fine i see his point of ruiz-as-trade-bait. but i don't think you give him up for a prospect... anybody else have a thought on this one?

[AWH the RBP]

"OK, I'll stick my neck out:

If Scherzer tries to live with his fastball against this lineup, he could have a very long....er I mean short night."

Posted by: AWH the RBP | Monday, May 05, 2008 at 09:52 PM

Sometimes I'm actually right.

[doubleh]

Of course, Vic pops one up, but he doubled his first at bat, so I'll let it slide.

[Steve Jeltz]

Moyer is now hitting .300.

[drake]

well, it's gotta be tough facing one of the best lineups in the NL in your first start. max'll be fine, just not today!

[AWH the RBP]

"So, I love scoring runs this way."

Theory, I love it when they score runs ANY way.

[Bonehead]

Re Ruiz - He won't bring you a great amount in return anyway.

[AWH the RBP]

Scherzer is now at 70 pitches through 3 IP.

[drake]

well, the truth is that most catchers suck, excluding russell martin and victor martinez. it's gonna be tough to improve on the seemingly bad ruiz anytime soon. i'd vote for keeping him, he's cheap and serviceable.

[KidCarnivore]

Yeah, Shertzer seems to have great stuff, but the normal ups and downs that a young pitcher faces should slow down some of the hype. Baseball is far different from football or basketball; young stars need to be covered differently.

[AWH the RBP]

Boy, is Moyer smart or what. He set Byrnes up beautifully, getting him to chase that changeup. Amazing!

[doubleh]

I love 1-2-3 innings for our SPs.

[Bonehead]

Good shutdown inning