Game chat: Phillies pay first visit to Nationals Park

Comments

[CJ]

On the day Werth is announced as the "starter" in CF, Victorino is starting in CF.

[CJ]

The lineups:

Phillies
SS Rollins
CF Victorino
2B Utley
1B Howard
LF Burrell
RF Jenkins
3B Feliz
CA Ruiz
PI Myers

Nationals
2B Lopez
SS Guzman
3B Zimmerman
1B Young
CF Milledge
RF Mackowiak
CA Flores
LF Harris
PI Redding

[naylman]

Why Feliz tonight? I don't get it.

Brett Myers is a flyball pitcher and you are facing a righty = start Greg Dobbs.

Is it that hard of a concept? I don't understand what Feliz does exactly for this team that he is considered an everyday starter when you have a player like Dobbs on your bench who is absolutely locked in. Ride the hot player Charlie, seriously, you just did it with Werth. It makes no sense.

[curt]

One hopes they're just shining Werth up for a trade for a SP. Someone has to be trade bait.

[CJ]

naylman: How dare you? Pedro Feliz is awesome. A clear upgrade for the Philles at third base. His glove is worth 4 runs a game and he gets 5 clutch hits a game.

curt: Werth for trade bait? Hmmm... don't see that. If anything, we're showcasing Vic for trade bait.

[curt]

You don't showcase a guy by demoting him to "backup."

[JD]

Glad to see Vic in there even if he really isnt in there. Would like to see Werth in RF.
How many dingers does Brett give up today?

[CJ]

curt: And you don't showcase Werth by letting him bat against righties!

[CJ]

Assuming we finish the game against the Nats tonight, we'll have FIVE games in hand on the Mets. Remarkable.

[curt]

Sure you do. He's a starting CF now, not a platoon RFer. At least that's the story.

[Sophist]

This Vic/Werth stuff today is bizarre.

CJ - re: the Braves. I simply gainsay the claim that we should "forget" about them, as the poster advocated. They may have question marks, but there are good reasons to think they'll be in the race this year (Hardball Times, for example, has them as the third-best team in all of baseball based on their performance up to now.*)

*Link: http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/
article/tht-dartboard-may-18-2008/

[CJ]

Sophist: Yeah... I know... I just wanted to say, "Don't call me guy, friend."

You can NOT forget about the Braves. This is a three team race to the end. You CAN forget about the Marlins, IMO.

[CJ]

curt: Perhaps we have different definitions of "showcasing." I would showcase a player by limiting them to performances in which they excel and shielding them from circumstances in which they're likely to fail.

[clout]

Let's see if I have this straight. 1. Cholly starts Feliz instead of Dobbs against a righty who's given the Phillies fits and whose career OPS-allowed is 40 points worse against lefties. 2. Cholly starts Vic in CF on the day he says Werth is his everyday centerfielder.

Explanations? Mental illness? Incomptenece?Anyone?

[clout]

Talk about a black hole, check out the bottom of that Nats lineup. Brutal.

Top half isn't bad and if they had a healthy Nick Johnson at 1B and could move Dmitri to the OF (in place of the awful Mackowiak), it wouldn't be bad at all.

[The Theory]

CJ- please tell me that was a South Park reference!

[Sophist]

Understandable.

So this Redding guy has been pretty good of late against teams other than the Phils, actually . . .

[CJ]

The Theory: Yeah... Sophist started it last thread. Great episode... one of my favorite ever.

[Jonesman]

No reason for Dobbs to be out of the lineup tonight. I think Feliz is fine enough, but when Dobbs is on fire, get him some ABs.

[CJ]

Jonesman: I worry about anyone who thinks Feliz (.233/.277/.411) is fine enough. ;-)

[Tray]

I, too, am mystified by today's lineup.

[curt]

Myers is fooling no one with anything.

[Sophist]

Two bad defensive plays from Rollins and a run scores.

[curt]

Nats announcers are surprised that Myers doesn't have his 94-95 mph fastball. Nice game prep.

[Dukes]

for those listening on mlbtv - who are the announcers? I will say the guy is informative but man, he talks more than Wheels!

[Dukes]

terrible hitting by feliz - he needed to hit the ball to the right side. that's little league stuff.

[curt]

The black hole does its thing. Either Dobbs or Coste has to be in there daily.

[bay_area_phan]

The great clutch hitting continues -- and Myers showed nothing in that first inning.

[Tray]

Guess they started him over the 5-11 career numbers against Redding. I don't think that's nearly big enough of a sample size to justify it.

[GM-Carson]

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with this team?

Top 1st- inning Ryan Howard gets an ill-advised green light and swings at a horrible pitch and proceeds to strikeout.

Bottom of the 1st- Jimmy Rollins makes a horrible throw home allowing a runner to score.

Top of the 2nd- Geoff Jenkins leads off with a double but is stranded on base.

This team since Saturday is playing like a bunch of losers. It's disgusting.

[Knight]

Hey look, it's the first inning again.

Hopefully they can score some runs this time.

[bay_area_phan]

Maybe Cholly was just trying to light a fire under Victorino. Now if he could light a fire under everyone else. This team couldn't look more lethargic.

[bay_area_phan]

I'll file this in the "wee bit of hyperbole" category. The Nats' announcers just said "There is no better hitter in the game" than Chase Utley.

[curt]

Instant replay of the 1st.

[fljerry]

Getting back to the run Nats scored - how come Victorino threw to second and not home? With his arm it would of been a easy out at home.

[RSB]

I'm listening on radio, but it sounds like they're just missing lighting up Redding. According to the Nats' announcers, both Jenkins' and Howard' drives would have been homers in most other parks.

[Steve Jeltz]

3 innings, 5 men left on base

This feels like yesterday.

[curt]

Doesn't look like the Nats are going to leave that leadoff double standing out there.

[Sophist]

It was an easy out at home as it was. Rollins' throw was off.

[Knight]

Myers is just terrible. He has no velocity, no precision, and he's a total headcase. It's sad that we still march him out every 5 days.

Also, Howard and Burrel both had 2 chances to score a run with a single, and they both failed miserably. This team just looks lost.

[bay_area_phan]

Knight says, "Myers is just terrible. He has no velocity, no precision, and he's a total headcase."

Sadly, that analysis is spot-on. I've been in denial about Myers, but the truth is, he is pitching even worse than Adam Eaton this year.

[redbeard]

this is ridiculous.

[Sam]

wow Myers our worst starting pitcher, dident think that would happen

[curt]

This team has serious SP issues. Without an effective Myers, it isn't a contender for long.

[JD]

BAP- Spot on. I was just thinking that this looks like a game that Eaton would pitch. Ugly.

[lekh tizdayen]

Would Myers be any better setting up for Lidge? I don't think his problems would just go away. I think he needs to go on the DL so he can "rehab" in the minors.

[Sophist]

Knight, to be more fair to Howard and Burrell, they both crushed the ball to left in the third. Howard in particular. If this game is at home, the Phils have at least three runs.

[drake]

i'm still in favor of trying to trade myers to a team that needs a closer, that may be the only value he has left...

[Sam]

oh and where is our super offense, now pedro wil ground out, then smae old same old

[curt]

Next up, instant replay of the 2nd?

[bay_area_phan]

Cue Clout and CJ.

[The Theory]

Does any team have need of a closer and either:

1) An extra starting pitcher (Cleveland?)
2) A real 3rd Baseman
or
3) A manager who could properly manage the 3rd basemen we have and the catcher situation?

[Sam]

we have to be leading the majors for men left on base

[redbead]

35 runners left on base in last 5 games, including tonite.

[PhillyFriar]

This team has serious SP issues. Without an effective Myers, it isn't a contender for long.

Well said, curt. It's frustrating to watch this kind of performance from Myers not from the standpoint of "Oh, we're probably going to lose this game" -- but rather, from the standpoint of "Crap, we won't make the playoffs unless our starting pitching drastically improves."

[bathtubhippo]

wait, did he just say that brett myers was one of the better hitting pitchers?

[curt]

I've never seen that - 1st & 3d innings identical, 2nd & 4th identical. Unfortunately, all bad.

[redbeard]

36

[Sam]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/more/05/14/philadelphia.drought/index.html

WOW

[attytood will]

Can the Elias sports bureau look up if a team has ever gotten six hits of the same type (single Utley Victorino, double Jenkins) by the same players the first two times through the lineup. Don't think I've seen this before...another new way by the Phillies to lose.

[bay_area_phan]

I don't know which is the most pathetic: (1) Brett Myers' pitching performance this year; (2) our offense's ability to hit in the clutch; or (3) the Nationals' announcers.

[bathtubhippo]

ok, i just hit rewind and checked....i didn't imagine it. it was said that brett myers was one of the phillies better hitting pitchers. and i really can't argue with the statement that brett myers is due for a hit...if he wants to match that .032 average he sported in 2006.

[redbeard]

(1) Brett Myers' pitching performance this year

[curt]

When you #2 pitcher (1) was in single A a year ago, or (2) is a 50 year old grandfather, you know you've got problems.

[bay_area_phan]

On a totally unrelated matter, remember when Eaton had no-decisions in his first 6 starts, & I was wondering what the all-time record was to start the season? I must have spent an hour trying to find the answer on the Internet -- but with no luck. Then, lo and behold, I read it in this morning's paper. The record is 8, set by some pitcher I never heard of and just tied by Shawn Chacon a few days ago. In case any of you were lying up at night wondering . . .

[RSB]

Have they at least entertained the notion of giving Myers a physical, or is everyone going to just keep going along thinking it's perfectly normal that he's lost 7-8 MPH off his fastball from one year to the next? Is long-tossing between starts really going to make that difference to get that velocity back? This is like watching Freddy Garcia all over again.

[Anon]

That is why Victorino should be in CF when he is starting.

[drake]

you'd lose 7 or 8 miles per hour on your fastball if you were pitching with your head up your ass too!

[MG]

Beat on Feliz point:

- In the bottom of the 2nd, Jenkins was on 2nd with nobody out. What does this clown do? Pulls a pitch on the outside of the plate to the 3B so that the runner can't even advance. Ugh.

[curt]

Anyone ready to predict singles by Vic & Utley & no more this inning?

[MG]

RSB - The velocity isn't there at all on the fastball tonight but Myers is missing badly with it tonight. Painful to watch Ruiz setup on some pitches and then have Myers miss the target by 12 inches or more.

[drake]

it's truly amazing how we can make tim redding look like brandon webb

[JD]

We know Myers is a head case, but why was the transition back to the starting rotation that much of a problem? It wouldn't be like asking Lidge to be a starter

[PhillyFriar]

bay_area_phan: a tough question, to be sure, but #3 is an enticing option. The Nationals crew has to be the worst set in baseball. In the season opening series they were wondering why Austin Kearns hadn't won a Gold Glove yet. Seriously.

[MG]

On the bright side - as predicted Myers hasn't given up a HR yet

On the negative side - he has substituted instead by giving up 2Bs

Yeah.

[drake]

maybe brett spent too much of the spring making t-shirts and playing jokes on kyle kendrick and not enough time learning to start again

[Anon]

Franske - "Myers said he hasn't been paying attention to hitters' swings"

It is nuggets like this that make it so easy to rip Myers.

[Anon]

Points to the dugout on a 2B? Pure bush league. I do miss baseball where a BS move like this would at least result in a brushback pitch next time up.

[RSB]

You think the TV guys are bad. Try listening to their radio crew. The play-by-play guy likes to scream.

[redbeard]

perfect opportunity for a trip to the dl!

[curt]

Milledge needs to be drilled for acting like a double against Myers is a huge accomplishment.

[drake]

well dang, that could have injured myers, maybe he needs about 15 days to recover from that...

[MG]

Take that Nats.

[Knight]

Hey look, a chance to put him on the DL. If only.

And I agree with Anon, pointing to the dugout with a double when you're up 3 in the 5th in May does nothing except make you look like an idiot.

Myers is pitching poorly, but I think the more immediate concern is the complete lack of clutch hitting. Not even Cole Hamels can win a game when you don't score a single run.

To have runners on 1st and 2nd with one out twice, and a leadoff double twice without scoring a single run is a bit worrisome for what is supposed to be a powerhouse offense.

[Hope SE]

whatever happened to myers' 12 to 6 curve whichused to lock knees?

[Anon]

Unfortunately Cholly needs to try and squeeze another inning out of Myers because the bullpen is pretty spent.

I can't believe the Phils are making Redding look like All-Star for the second time this season. At least the first time they faced him the weather was cold and Redding had good stuff. That is not the case tonight.

[Phighting Mad]

FYI- one of the two men in the Nats' TV booth is TBS castaway Don Sutton

[MG]

Funniest thing:

- Watching the Phils' game while I do the dishes on a small TV in the kitchen. The amount of space that Young occupies on a 14-inch screen is pretty amazing.

[curt]

That's multitasking - watching TV, writing on BL AND doing the dishes.

[curt]

At least we don't have to watch Pedro and Ruiz try to hit in the same inning.

[curt]

Good start there Brett.

[Knight]

When you watch the pitcher, especially that badly, the manager should walk out and sent you to AAA that instant. Urgh.

[GM-Carson]

1. I don't care how many routine plays Pedro Feliz makes, he swings at the first pitch so often and makes awful outs.

2. Brett Myers just isn't right. His location is off, his speed his down, and mix him his ever-f'd up head and it's a recipe for disaster.

3. The Phils aren't really that good of a team. The offense just isn't getting it done.

[RSB]

They had all kinds of shots against Redding in the first four innings, then have fallen asleep in the last two. It's still a winnable game if they can wake the hell up.

[fljerry]

Guess Myers feels good that he only gave up 3 runs in 6 innings. Would of been good for 3 of the other 4 pitchers that the Phils have (hamels excluded) He was actually lousy.

[bay_area_phan]

Myers's velocity wasn't there. His command wasn't there. He gave up numerous hard hit balls. And his results could easily have been much worse. In the final analysis, though, this game is not his fault. If you get 6 innings, 3 runs from your starter, you ought to be right in the game.

[fljerry]

Actually not too confident in Madson coming in. Hes probably as bad as Myers.

[Steve Jeltz]

I'm the superstitious type so I'll just say that Jonathan Lester is pitching well for the BoSox tonight if any of you are interested in glancing over to that linescore.

[GM-Carson]

RSB- I'd love for this team to "wake the hell up" because they're damn near comatose right now. They're not even enjoyable to watch because their brand of baseball is so pathetic right now.

[Andy]

Um...I guess this was a, um, "quality start" by Bret Myers.

Technically. Um.