Game chat: Phillies seek split against Pedro, Mets

Adam Eaton (3-6, 4.79) is 5-0 in nine career starts against New York. The right-hander matches up with Pedro Martinez (2-2, 7.39) as the Phillies and Mets wrap up their four-game set tonight at 7:05.

Take away two series sweeps in Atlanta, and the Phillies are left with a solid month of Kansas City-brand baseball. They won't get the series win tonight and are in danger of dropping their seventh series in eight tries. The good news is that the rest of the division has scuffled and they haven’t lost much ground. The Phils still hold a 2.5 game edge over Florida and are 3.5 up on the Mets. As one reader pointed out, over their last 10 games, the Phils, Fish and Mets are a ho-hum 5-5. The Mets will try to take three-out-of-four from the Phils tonight with Pedro, who has struggled lately. In his last three starts, he's 0-2 with a 10.20 ERA.

Comments

[mike cunningham]

It's Eaton versus Martinez! A battle for the ages!!

[Ribbies]

Looks like rain again tonight. Hope this one gets in under 8 hours.

[PhillR]

Enough rain for a rain out or will they try to get this one off?

[mike cunningham]

I don't feel like sitting in another rain delay.... personally...

[clicheguevara]

Does anyone know if Swindle is available for tonight? It would help a lot to have a fresh arm in the bullpen and I think we are all dying to see his stuff.

[diggitydave]

I don't want to sound like a blood-thirsty ignoramus, but I'd like to see the Phillies send a message in tonight's game.

It was tough having to watch the Mets prance around during and after yesterday's game like a bunch of cocky pricks. You know if Jerry Manuel told Pedro to set the tone for tonight's game he would send a message real clear.

Seeing as the Mets are most likely going to be breathing down our necks for the rest of the season, I would love to see Uncle Cholly instruct Eaton to set the tone early on.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

I'd like to see Eaton set the tone by not giving up baserunners and/or runs in the 1st inning. I don't need to see him hit a batter to put a baserunner on, first thing.

[Mets Fan in Peace]

Corey Hart leads last man voting after day 1.

Pathetic.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080707&content_id=3085631&vkey=allstar2008&fext=.jsp

[doubleh]

I'd like to see the Phillies set the tone by scoring 10 runs off of old Pedro in the first inning...in addition to Eaton having a QS.

[diggitydave]

Wow one whole minute and I already got a sarcastic response to my post about "setting the tone", that didn't take long!

I thought the whole disclaimer about not being a blood-thirsty idiot would quell the sarcastic responses, but yeah of course I want to see Eaton pitch well and not put unnecessary runners on base.

I think Jose Reyes is an absolute showboating prick - doesn't mean I want to see Eaton hit him, thereby putting him on base and enabling him to waltz around the bases and essentially score at will.. I mean come on, give me a little credit there BedBeard.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

You asked for it!

I think the best thing that could happen is Pedro tries setting the tone and gets hammered and knocked our after an inning or two.

[mike cunningham]

Response from Previous Thread...
@Mr. Mack -- I have no obsession with your recollection. I responded to your original post. The next day you clarified your point. I responded that I would defer to your recollection and never mentioned it again. Yet every week or two you post that that the Front Office is not bringing back Burrell as if it were a FACT and a done deal and a few times express your displeasure that someone had the gall to question your recollection, when it is fairly common on bl to question someone's SOURCE of a situation of that magnitude. You weren't stating your opinion, you were saying, the FRONT OFFICE IS NOT GOING TO OFFER BURRELL A CONTRACT, I heard both Gillick AND Amaro say so. You stated it as a fact. You were called on the source, as most of the avid fans here, who digest every blog, newsource and fringe columnist on Phillies news had never heard or read that Gillick or Amaro would NOT be offering a contract to Burrell.

I only mentioned it today, because

1. You again mentioned your version of the Front Office's opinion.
2. You said, you didn't hear the front office talking about Burrell's situation when in one of the biggest news stories of the Phillies season so far -- Lidge's re-signing, there is a quote related to Burrell.

I don't want to get involved in semantics, because we'll end up down the road were @Parker or @AWH questioned Myers quotes about being sent down as being selfish while others lauded them and others just mis-interpreted Myers "rockstar" comment that he said he pitched like a rockstar instead of his actual words were, he "felt like a rock star". [A good contrast would be to compare Myers quotes versus Francouer who felt "betrayed" by the club.]

Anyway, looks like the rain is slowing here in CC, hopefully we'll get this game in...

[Ryan]

Why is it so pathetic that Hart could be leading? He's having a pretty decent season. Not ridiculous to think he could make an all star team. Anyone have any idea what the weather is supposed to look like throughout the night?

[Tray]

Why all the talk about Winn? Nady's much better.

[Willard Preacher]

A Brewer leading the fan vote? I smell conspiracy, Bud Selig.

Who even knew that the internet made its way to Milwaukee? Good for them.

[bathtubhippo]

supposed to clear up somewhat over the next hour or two from what i've heard. but you know, it's summer, thunderstorms are abound from time to time. and i'm trying to be optimistic, since i'm about to head to the park.

and, for what it's worth, i think i've voted for pat like 100 times already.

[Lake Fred]

I voted for PtB on the link from the prior thread. It let me vote twice. If I had time, I guess I could vote forever, but, no; I'm logging off. G'night BLers. Go Eaton! It still feels weird to root for Eaton in earnest.

[Whelkman]

Left this reply to baxter from last thread sitting in preview:

RBI, HR, and situational stats are about the only numbers that make Howard look good. The rest portray him as a league average contributor or even below if you value ancillary stats like batting average and strikeout totals.

Home runs aren't as important as total bases, and you'd need to make the case that Joe #4 hitter would drive in significantly less RBIs with the same runners on base. That analysis is very hard to do hence RBI is considered a secondary stat at best.

[bay_area_phan]

Jose Guillen was the unintended beneficiary of my enthusiasm for Pat Burrell's All Star campaign. I voted for Burrell about 20 times this morning. The same ballot, of coure, also asks you to vote in the American League. I had no idea who deserved to make it, and didn't feel like researching it. So, for no particular reason, I just picked Jose Guillen. I was in a bit of a hurry & I didn't feel like changing my A.L. ballot each time I voted, so the end result is that Guillen got the same 20 votes that Pat got. Remember that if Guillen wins by less than 20 votes.

[Gary Dell'Abate]

I have to say, I'm actually rather scared that the Mutts will eventually catch up with us. We're essentially riding the crest of the early success wave, but I can almost feel it crashing...
Ugh.

We can do this!

[bob]

i think one of the reasons howard is hitting much better with runners in scoring position is because defenses can't apply a severe shift. during the first two years, opposing teams didn't apply the shift as much. i'd like to see if anybody has Howard's numbers shift vs. no shift, and the breakdown of those numbers...and if those numbers correlate with RISP v. non-RISP.

[Tray]

b_a_p, the right answer is Giambi. Since April, he's had over a 1.000 OPS.

[CJ]

Hmmm... interesting lineup. Feliz gets a day off (thank goodness!), but against a righty, Werth gets the start over Jenkins.

[CJ]

bob: Possible... but the shift is often in effect when there is just a runner on 2nd or runners on 1st and 2nd.

[doubleh]

I seem to recall that Werth hits the Mets pretty well. Didn't he have is 9-for-9 during one of the Mets' series last season? Am I remembering that wrong?

I like Werth as a lead-off hitter, but the problem is Jimmy seems ineffective in just about every other spot he's been put in but lead-off. I'd much rather see Jimmy further down in the lineup than 3rd, which is where Chase belongs.

Why, why, why can't we continuously split up Utley and Howard? Why must they be back to back? Utley-Burrell-Howard is how it should be right now. With Jimmy and Chase seemingly slumping, Burrell/Vic give you a better chance of Howard having someone on base to actually drive in.

[mb]

This is the lineup I'd like to see, feels pretty optimal:

1. Vic
2. Werth
3. Utley
4. Burrell
5. Howard
6. Rollins
7. Dobbs
8. Coste

[Iceman]

I second diggitydave's call for a 'setting of the tone.' Unfortunately, with Eaton's control, he might end up putting one right in Reyes' ear, which, while it might sound appealing, isn't very good karma, and we don't actually want to hurt the prick.

[doubleh]

On a side note, I was at the LV IronPigs game last night and witnessed the improbable shutout. Weird, weird game.

[doubleh]

Also, if the Phils can't hit Martinez tonight (aside from Pedro's recent slump, the Phils starting tonight have a collective .300+ BA against him), then I am officially worried about this offense going forward.

[CJ]

mb: Um... why would Vic be first and Rollins be 6th? Rollins OPS+ is 15 points higher than Vic's.

[Iceman]

Off to a roaring start.

[THe DUde]

Toronto doesn't look like a likely dance partner in the Burnett sweepstakes. THey want a young major league ready shortstop to fill their void at the big league level.

We have no SS ready unless you count DOnald and many do not believe he quick enough to play SS on everyday basis. His true position will likely be a Dobbs type super utility guy who can play 3rd, OF and sub at SS if absolutely necessary.

So as much as I hate to admit it, chances are if the Phils are to improve the staff and want to make a run at a top tier pitcher then it looks like Bedard. I think the Phils will pass and maybe try to pry a mid rotation guy from a perinenal bottom feeder team (Pirates & Royals). Pirates have absolutely no one that I would want to touch. Royals have TOmko who seems to get traded every year and he would not be an upgrade over anything we currently have.

THere are some reports that the Phils top scout was at a Red Sox / Astros minor league game. Not sure who was being scouted though. Maybe an extra player in a potential trade for Oswalt.

[85]

Oh what the hell...

[Iceman]

This is gonna be one of those "Find something else to do by 730" games.

Chavez was out from every possible angle.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Tray: "Nady is much better than Winn"

Really? Nady is a K master and has already set his career high for walks this season (24). In fact, Nady's career (.275 BA, 74 HR, .335 OBP, 15 SB .454 SLG, .790 OPS) numbers are very similar to Winn's (.286 BA, 99 HR, 184 SB .345 OBP, .424 SLG, .769 OPS), except that Winn steals more bases per season than Nady has in his career.

Nady is a first half player in any case. His HR numbers drop severely in the last 3 months of the season for his career.

Great Start here.

[CJ]

Bah... terrible call.

[redbeard]

this is a joke

[Iceman]

Free run for the Mets courtesy of blue.

[Tray]

Nady's much better than Winn this year, that's all I'm saying.

[85]

Garbage. Should be 1-0... No more screwing around now, bats. Bash this washed up clown.

[doubleh]

Blue has consistently s*cked for this entire series, if I may be blunt.

I also would like to say that I am absolutely disgusted by the volume of Met fans/cheering I hear for the Mets whenever these 2 teams play. Phillie fans should be ashamed for letting them take over CBP like this.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Tray: Nady is the type player the Phils would acquire. He puts up big numbers on occasion and then disappears for months at a time. Not the type of guy I want come playoff time (Assuming the Phils make it).

[Iceman]

Tough not to go into 'pessimistic Phillie fan' mode with the general lack of enthusiasm they showed in that first inning.

[PhillR]

I don't care what his recent games looked like, Pedro has good stuff tonight. Eaton, not so much.

[RSB]

Utley and Rollins have been virtually invisible in this series.

[Sophist]

When the Phils have scored a grand total of 9 runs in the first three games this series, it's hard not to be pessimistic. Especially when one of the runs feels false.

[bay_area_phan]

At least we don't have to worry about Chase Utley messing up his swing in the homerun contest.

[redbeard]

throw at tatis here please.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Iceman: The mention of Adam Eaton puts me in a pessimistic mood.

[doubleh]

They are letting Pedro off easy here. He has given up tons of first inning runs to worse teams than the Phils.

Looks like they do indeed have a hangover from yesterday's game. If they're going to take this game off, so am I. Enjoy guys; look forward to reading your sarcastic comments later. Hope the Phils' bats wake up in the meantime.

[BB]

Everyone has good stuff against us. Its disgusting.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Great play by Utley.

[Iceman]

Pathetic. Get ready for second place by the break.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Hey, here is a novel concept. The Phillies need pitching, bad!

[BB]

this isn't a slump. Its a collapse.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Just give up the HR, Eaton. We know you want to. Just go ahead and get that out of the way early.

[RSB]

Mets have as much momentum right now as they have all season. Hopefully something will turn the tide on them quickly.

As I wrote that, two more runs have scored. It might be too late.

Well, the Phillies have had this coming, frankly. You can't play with yor heads up your asses for an entire month and not expect consequences at some point.

[Brian G]

Walking Reyes. Always a good idea. Hopefully we can score some f-ing runs today.

[Revenge]

Do you hear it?? Do ya? Do ya hear the Footsteps? OH YEAH!! We're coming for ya

[Iceman]

Can't believe the utter lack of heart our team has shown letting these showboating pricks come in to CBP and run all over them. Say what you want about the pitching, but aside of a 2-run HR by Werth with 2 outs in the 9th yesterday, we might as well not even be going up there with any bats. Pedro is ripe for being shelled tonight, but will it surprise anyone when he goes 6 shutout innings and gets back on track?

Forget Burnett or Bedard -- we need a f*cking kick in the ass.

[bay_area_phan]

At the risk of being called reactionary or pessimistic, does anyone seriously believe that, in the absence of some significant changes, this pathetic excuse for a team is going to hold off the Mets and win the NL East?

[petey]

i'm so glad our GM doesn't think we need another top-line starter.

[redbeard]

get the smelling salts out cholly, time to wake up your offense.

[Sophist]

RSB, the Mets won 5 in a row in April (the last two against the Phils.)

If they win tonight, that will only be three in a row. Overstating their momentum a bit.

But yeah, when you're talking about a team that has struggled winning 1 or 2 games in a row all year, two in a row looks like a lot.

[bay_area_phan]

Has a first place team ever been sellers at the trade deadline? I'm pretty much ready to trade away this entire collection of garbage.

[Iceman]

Howard barely swung his bat and the home-plate ump doesn't even appeal. Someone should throw a fit and get thrown out of this game to light a fire -- Cholly, I'm looking at you.

[bay_area_phan]

sophist: In terms of momentum, there is surely a difference between winning three in a row against some pathetic, injury-depleted team like the Braves, & three wins in a row against the team you're chasing in the division.

I don't know whether or not the Mets have momentum. But whatever is the opposite of momentum, the Phillies have an abundance of it.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Well, if you take away Carlos Lee's 10 RBI vs. Philly, his stats are similar to Pat Burrell's. Too bad Burrell doesn't get the chance to face Eaton and Myers.

[BobbyD]

Just because the Phillies stink right now doesn't mean the Mets don't still stink. While we may not be able to beat the Mets and Florida, everybody else can. Phils will win the division by default.

[Sophist]

BAP - No one was talking about the Phillies.

[Iceman]

Nothing worse than being down 5-0 to the Mets and hearing Wheels tell some boring, pointless story that nobody but himself cares about.

[Batter's Eye]

Tatis did his shimmy crossing home plate after his home run last night and Jerry Manuel has the stones to put him in the starting lineup tonight?

They're practically begging us to respond - which might just be the jolt this team needs.

[PhillR]

I keep saying that the Mets rotation is bordering on dominant. If Pedro comes around (and he appears to be doing that) will you fools stop arguing?

Will you recognize the AJ Burnett would be a difference maker?

[John]

Another great AB by Werth. Love his patience at the plate.

[RSB]

Sophist: I don't think I'm overstating it at all. They would stand to pick up to two more games, making it five in less than four weeks, and would do it by beating the first-place team which had their number last season. They look loose, confident, and alive, something which the Phillies have not been for a long while now. This could be a major springboard for New York.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

How to best describe the Phillies starting rotation?

I say Hamels and a handful of dice. I'd actually take my chances with the dice (even if the lowest number on the dice was 3).

[Iceman]

PhillR: no one agrees with your 'bordering on dominant' assessment because it's a joke. Just stop.

[PhillR]

I saw the replay of Tatis "celebration" last night. It didn't seen any worse then the Phills on Friday.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

PhillR: "The Mets rotation is bordering on dominant."

Yes, but only against the Phillies. I call it the "Redding/Chacon Syndrome."

[rickyj21]

With defense, 1-0....
without defense 5-0....

Pete Happy can hit into all the DP's he wants and I still rather see him at 3rd.

This one's for you Clout.

[bay_area_phan]

PhillR: The guy has an ERA over 7. If you watched Phillies games every day, you might notice a trend. Every slumping pitcher manages to look like he's "coming around" when he faces our pathetic lineup.

[Sophist]

RSB: How do you think they felt and looked April 19th after they'd won 5 in a row (the last two against the Phils - that team that dominated them last year), were 4 games over .500, and in first place in the East?

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

A-damn Eaton, nothing more to say really.

[BobbyD]

I'm not watching the rest of this game. This is the 2006 Phillies.

[Mike]

I feel like they absolutely have to trade for a top flight starter, whoever it takes. This is tough to watch so far, especially since the bats have died the past two weeks.

[Iceman]

PhillR: there's no way you're a Phillies fan. Trade Vic because he's 'easily replaceable' for Burnett, as the Phils offense can't score runs? Hating on the Phanatic? Comparing a walk-off celebration to a showboating shimmy and subsequential ridiculous high-fiving display with Reyes? Give it up, no one here buys what you're selling.

[Sophist]

This guy Eaton sucks tonight.

The rest of the rotation has been fine. Not that I'm not interested in a #1/#2 pitcher. I just think the slumping offense is to blame for the month of June and this series.

[PhillR]

Iceman: you are a fool. The mets starting rotation has dominated the Phillies every start in this series.

If you exclude Pedro's last start, the starting rotation has given up 12 runs in the last 6 games.

[petey]

why is eaton still in? shot bullpen?

[Iceman]

Absolute f*cking implosion. Good thing this is July and not September.

Dobbs just blew any chance he had to start in a big game for the next 2+ months.

[Sophist]

Iceman - He's a Marlins fan that thinks he can walk in here and be objective simply bc he doesn't root for this Phils team. Everyone is biased. His problem is that his arguments aren't very good.

Why doesn't Rollins go home with that throw?

[GoPhilsGo]

Good question. Why is Eaton still in?

[Iceman]

PhillR: you have no idea what you're talking about. We're talking about a Phillies lineup that has been dominated by everyone in the past three weeks, save for an injury-depleted Braves rotation. If you modified your stupid statement to 'bordering on dominant against the Phillies' instead o 'bordering on dominant, period,' maybe somebody would take you seriously.

[Sophist]

PhillR - Problem is, every team's rotation, besides ATL, has dominated the Phils in the past 5 weeks.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Perhaps this will go a long way towards ending the delusion, held by many a poster, that the Phillies have decent pitching past Hamels.

[bay_area_phan]

Look on the bright side: we will DEFINITELY see Swindle today.

[Iceman]

Sophist -- he's seriously not a Phils fan? He told me a few days ago that he was.

The mysterious PhillR...

[doubleh]

PhillR: Every starting rotation except for the Braves' has dominated the Phillies for the past month.

And the Mets' rotation was supposed to be their strong suit, but to this point has been completely inconsistent/unlucky.

[GM-Carson]

Getting butt raped by the Mets, oh so much fun.

Eaton sucks, the entire offense sucks, this team sucks. Other than the Braves series, this team has been complete shitt over the past month.

[PhillR]

Iceman (others please feel free to ignore): Victorino is below replacement value. He is a spare part, for 99% of the systems out there he is MEANINGLESS, if anyone would actually trade for him, you HAVE to do it.

The phanatic is an embarrassment. A stereotypical image that perpetuates what I would prefer to believe is a baseless notion of a citizen of Philly. Yes, he is tasteless, classless and not how I want to be represented.

AJ Burnett is a power starter who turns in ACE performances every other start and would likely do even better moving to the NL from the AL and out of a toxic clubhouse. Yeah, as someone who would like to actually see the Phillies win, I think he is a must have. As we can all see from this series, the Phillies rotation is a JOKE.