Tuesday: Comeback not enough to overcome Mets

It was a dramatic finish, but another wholesale defeat, leading to the Phillies’ seventh series loss in their last eight attempts. Their slow slide from the top of the division continues.

Game summary: The Mets tallied 10 hits and eight runs — six earned — in 2 2-3 innings off Adam Eaton, who was back to throwing balls with no movement. It took every last ounce of offense to make up the deficit he created. With Brett Myers gone, we can resume fretting over Eaton, who has surrendered a ton of hits and walks in three of his last four starts.

Offensively, I’ve never been less impressed with an eight-run comeback. Sorry to spoil what little cheer you have this morning, campers. They let Pedro Martinez off the hook a couple times, particularly in the fourth. The offense keeps peppering in just enough poor at bats to spoil their momentum against halfway decent pitching, which is all Pedro was last night. Take note: the meaty part of this comeback happened during garbage time against Tony Armas, who is not a good pitcher. It also seemed like the team got a lift from R.J. Swindle, who finished the 7th and 8th by striking out David Wright and Carlos Delgado, respectively. And I don’t know what to make of the major malfunction with Aaron Heilman and Billy Wagner against the Phils. As one reader suggested, they should keep them in New York the next time they visit Philadelphia.

But at least we got to see Swindle. If first impressions are correct, then it’s safe to assume you never want Swindle to face a right-handed hitter in a critical spot. In his first Major League at bat, David Wright launched his Eephus pitch deep into the seats. He then allowed a pair of singles, a walk, and an RBI single by Pedro. With the butterflies fading, he stayed on for two more innings and retired the sides in order. When the dust settled, he retired every left-hander he faced, earned a post-game endorsement from the skipper. Swindle will have more opportunities to prove himself in a situational role.

Seanez slowed: Rudy Seanez was scratched from the game with back spasms. The 39-year-old reliever has appeared in just two games since June 18.

Comments

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Good for Swindle to settle down after the initial debacle. I want to see more, but at the same time, that scares me.

[cookies]

why are the phillies so sure that marston,and donald aren't ready.I know that they are professional but to me give marston a chance to come up and get on base,batting at the bottom of the order.He has great obp.and donald would be a good righthanded bat off the bench and spot starter at third.how much worse can carlos carrarsco be than eaton is right now.just some thought

[BobbyD]

Despite Feliz' big hit 2 batters later, Howard's K in the 9th was a rally killer. He has no plan at the plate.

[WillyFromPhilly]

It's called service time.

[Marc H]

As much as it kills me to say this, the Mets are probably going to win the division this year. This team just can't win as it is presently comprised. They are far too strike out prone and can't score consistently unless they are hitting homers. They certainly don;t manufacture the tough, grind it out kinds of runs. If you think the starting pitching is bad now, wait until August, when Moyer starts to tire. It will be "Throw Out Cole and then dig out of a Hole". Forget about a big trade. Teams aren't lining up for the Jason Donalds & Greg Golsons of the world and we can;t afford to trade our few quality pitching prospects. The onl;y hope is that Carrasco and Happ might give them a boost the way Noles and Saucier did in 1980.

Face it, the Phillies just aren't that good. We caught lightening in a bottle last season. Enjoy the memories,

[J. Weitzel]

People need to get a grip with Marson. Catcher is not the issue. It's the hardest job on the field. Marson has no experience with this pitching staff. His next step will be Allentown.

[Tim]

re carrasco service time is right.

re swindle the guy looked awesome against the lefties. delgado's second ab against him might have been funnier than his first - both whiffs.

[Reed]

As J-Dub said, they are a second half team, so hopefully that is the case...again. They need some parts...big ones (front-line starter & catcher) and small ones, but they are in first place still, as bad as they have been for the last month.

Marc H, I am a phessimist too, but how can you write them off while they are in 1st place?

Remedy: win the next 2 series and have some blow-outs in there. Assert yourselves and get your swagger back.

[Wes Chamberlain]

Turned the game on in the bottom of the 1st and saw they were down 2-0, not so good. Then I noticed that Dobbs was starting at 3rd. It got me thinking that it seems they lose a lot when Dobbs starts at third, so I looked into it.

Dobbs starting at 3rd: 5-11
Feliz starting at 3rd: 43-31

I know it is a small sample size and therefore statistically does not mean a whole lot, but it is a pretty drastic difference.

Then I looked into Dobbs starts a little deeper, as in who was the starting pitcher for Dobbs starts. Here is the break down.

Eaton, 6 starts: 2-4
Myers, 6 starts: 2-4
Hamels, 2 starts: 0-2
Kendrick, 2 starts: 1-1

So the majority of Dobbs starts are with Myers/Eaton pitching, which brings down the Phils record for Dobbs starts. However, as I argued way back when Feliz was signed, good defense helps bad pitching. Last night was a perfect example. Eaton was atrocious, however, so was Dobbs defense. As bad as Eaton was, if Dobbs made some plays, particularly the ball through his legs, he could have helped stop the bleeding and limited the damage Eaton caused. The offense then came alive and made a game of it. Had Dobbs not made that error, the game could have been different, even with a terrible start from Eaton.

To add insult to Dobbs' injury, he didn't do anything with the bat, which is his srong suit. And Feliz got a big pinch hit.

I know it was just one game and you can't read too much into it, but last night just seemed to be a perfect example of how important defense can be. And the 5-11 record when Dobbs starts at 3rd, does tell me a little something, even conceeding the poor pitching of Eaton/Myers in most of those starts. Also the 0-2 in Dobbs/Hamels starts makes you think a little.

Of course after last night, I realize that the "Dobbs should start more at 3rd" camp seems be be down to just clout, so I guess this is not much more of an argument anymore.

On a different note, with Gordon out and the bullpen showing some signs of wear, the Phils need to DFA Taguchi and fill his spot with a reliever. Who that releiver is or where he will come from, I don't know, but they need an extra arm out in the pen. And part of replacing So with a releiver is because I think Swindle should stay, but only as a LOOGY.

[JZ]

I don't have anything constructive to say other than I hate this team right now.

Since I'm in North Jersey, not only to I get to hear Mets announcers perpetually bitch about the "that's why they call it a bandbox," but I also get to see a listless "first-place" team allow the Mets to take control over the holiday weekend.

Grrrrr.

[BobbyD]

The Mets will not win the division. Just because the Phillies stink right now doesn't mean the Mets don't still stink. The Phillies will win the division by default. Before this series the Mets were below .500.

[Marc H]

I'm not writing them off. I just don't think that they're all that good to begin with.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Marson probably could use more time, but Donald could do better than Taguchi.

Ricky Botallico (Iron Pigs announcer) had nice things to say about Jaramillo's bat being a little better than people think. I'm all for giving it a shot at this point.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

How come Cholly took Utley out and not Howard last night? Like Burrell's constant removal, instead of Howard, why wasn't Howard more of a target to come out in the 7th?

[Wes Chamberlain]

"People need to get a grip with Marson. Catcher is not the issue. It's the hardest job on the field. Marson has no experience with this pitching staff. His next step will be Allentown."

Jason, you are mostly right, but a little wrong. Ruiz is hitting so poorly that catcher is an issue. But you are very right that Marson is NOT even close to being the answer this year and probably not even next year.

Coste can't catch everyday, so it comes down to Ruiz getting his act together at the plate and at least start hitting like did last year.

[J. Weitzel]

I thought Donald should have been the one to come up instead of T.J. Bohn earlier. I would have no problem with Donald on this team.

[Brooklyn Mets Fan]

Hey guys, just checkin out the best Phillies site on the net. I thought the Mets were gonna lose that game for sure last night, but they finally hit Eaton, who IMO, is just not a good pitcher.

Whats with the calling for a new catcher? I thought Coste was hitting .300. Is he bad behind the plate?

Also, I saw the in-game thread for yesterdays game, and a lot of people calling for Burnett....AJ is kind of a burden for Toronto. Hes very injury prone, and he has what may be the worst contract in baseball. If he sucks, he can activate his option and force the team to keep him for like $20m. If he's great, then he leaves at the end of the year for free agency.

[bay_area_phan]

How is it that we all KNOW Marson isn't ready, when he has never even been given a shot? It's not like he's hitting .330 against pee-wee leaguers. Players make the jump from AA all the time. Kendrick did it just last year & pitcher is surely no less difficult a position than catcher. I'd be willing to accept a few extra passed balls now and then as the price of getting another half-way decent bat into the lineup.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

B.M.F.: you hit the nail on the head for the folks calling for Burnett. You either have a rental with him (he does well, he'll opt out) or a 2 year burden of a contract if he pitches poorly. that 2 year burden is for $24 mil-what the Phils gave Eaton for 3 years.

[baxter]

Nice attitude...especially for a Mets fan.

Cholly really hurt them this series. Who knows what Utley might've done last night, or Burrell the day before?...and why would you replace Romero with Gordon in a critical situation, knowing that Gordon isn't 100%?

The Phils need a boost. Getting rid of Myers and Gordon will help, but they might need to add something else to get over the hump. That something could be a minor leaguer or starting pitcher, but they need something soon.

Ruiz shouldn't be playing...Even if he were the best defensive catcher of all time, his .190 average wouldn't be acceptable for a national league contender. Maybe if he hit for power, drove in runs, got on base or stole bases, his low average might be overlooked, but he does none of those things. Ruiz is a negative- a drain on the lineup. He hurts them much more than he helps. He helps them lose, not win.

Marson could be an answer- in a limited role. While they're at it, bring up Golson when he's healthy. Just replacing the dead weight on the roster (Myers, Gordon, Ruiz and Taguchi) with young talent (Happ, Swindle/Outman, Marson, Golson) would be a good start. If they still want to make a move, fine, but these young guys couldn't do worse and could be the difference. It certainly wouldn't be the first (or 10,000th) time a rookie helped a contending team down the stretch.

[J. Weitzel]

Catching isn't about hitting. The eight hole isn't the four hole. Catching is a tough craft to master. The farm director said Marson's next stop is Allentown or possible September call-up. The suggestion there is Marson needs experience catching someone who isn't Travis Minix. Coste isn't chop liver offensively. Ruiz has Manuel's endorsement.

[J. Weitzel]

Did Ruiz even get an AB last night?

[Bedrosian's Beard]

FWIW: Manuel doesn't have my endorsement, neither does Ruiz.

[NEPhilliesPhan]

Swindle did very well after settling down...hopefully the Phillies realize that and give him a few more chances. On another note, all of a sudden the bullpen is hitting a wall with Seanez hurting and Gordon on the DL. Durbin is getting overworked etc etc. Not a good sign for a team that has depended on an awesome bullpen in the 1st half.

Marson may be the answer behind the plate next year, but I doubt he'd do it this year.

[NEPhilliesPhan]

The biggest problem with Ruiz at the plate isn't just his average...its his lack of even productive ABs. He doesn't advance the runner, he doesn't hit sac flys, he doesn't make good contact. Against even a decent starter, he hits weak groundballs that usually end up being DPs with Feliz batting in front of him. He's killing them at the plate. There are bigger issues including Jrolls return to earth from his MVP campaign, Howard's all or nothing approach, and a sudden lack of production the past 6 weeks from the Werth/Jenkins platoon, so its not all Ruiz's fault but he's definitely not helping matters. On Feliz, he's doing and has been doing all season exactly what he is paid to do. He's actually been above his career numbers all year...you can't ask anymore than that. The same can be said for Burrell and Utley.

[Mets Fan in Peace]

Sweet... I got quoted by the great Weitzel.

This is going to be an interesting second half. While the Rays and Sox are going to be slugging it out for the AL East title, it looks like the NL East is going to whichever team sucks less. It's boring, but it will be a race nonetheless.

[J. Weitzel]

The Phillies have a no-hit, defensive catcher. So do a lot of teams.

[baxter]

Whoever said the Dodgers wouldn't trade Matt Kemp for Pat Burrell- have you seen MLBtraderumors lately? They're trying to trade Matt Kemp for Jack Wilson!...and Kemp doesn't seem to be enough.

Jack Wilson is a nice little shortstop, but the Dodgers need a slugger and Pat Burrell leads all outfielders in OPS. Burrell is worth much more than Jack Wilson, especially to the Dodgers.

[vegas]

This team is not done, corrections just need to be made and slowly they are. A bullpen arm like Fuentes and a B list starter will be added. I bet Myers ends up in the pen where he belongs. Taguchi adds no value and should be replaced with Donald. The Phils got off to a great start, built a lead in a weak division and are fortunate to have time to adjust.

Why can't Dobbs hit when he starts? On the bench he is automatic. Maybe he can replace PTB in late innings and Donald share time at thrid.

Posts where a little hostile last night, it's not panic time.

[cookies]

weitzel. excuse me for asking.who cares that other teams have..as a phillies fan we want to have a balance lineup.ruiz is not getting it done and marston and coste would be a upgrade.just marston ability to walk would help turn over the lineup.and get rollins more chances to drive in runs.

[NEPhilliesPhan]

Something that scares me (as it happened in my PS3 MLB08: The Show game). Burrell becomes a free agent after the season and is signed by the Mets and comes back to haunt us 18 times every year. I could actually see it happening as they'll have plenty of money next year and he's a big bat from the right side.

On trading Burrell: Why the hell would we trade the NL leader in OPS for outfielders? Espeically when he's in the midst of a career year and is our only decent RH bat?

[Lake Fred]

Tough to read through the last thread. The Phils fall behind big in a game and the BLers start beating up on each other. BL consist of stat heads, from the heart fans, and tweeners that have a mix of stats and heart. Carson's a heart fan and went he vents, he doesn't need some stat head jumping all over him. BLers need to lighten up on each other.

Swindle got thrown in the fire, got burned, but toughened up and should be a good addition to the pen as he gets acclimated to this level of play.

Despite Ryan Howard's vast amount of K's and his low BA, he should be an All Star player because of his HRs and RBIs. Ryan Ludwick is not an All Star. Let Howard be the DH. When the NL loses because Ludwick struck out in a crucial situation, just remember, Howard would look better on the tube striking out than some sap named Ludwick.

[mike cunningham]

@JW -- agreed, catching is not the problem. Despite Jenkins big homer last night (which was hit on a pitch in the only spot that Jenkins swing plane connects) we need to replace his lack of production there. Maybe he will fix his issue. I don't know, but if Cholly is going to continue to start Werth against RH, we are just weaker in RF.

The 25th spot needs to be improved. Whether it's a Jason Donald. Or a Greg Golson. Or a Right Handed Russell Branyan-type.

I'd like the Phillies to either work Seanez more into the rotation or shut him down for a month to save him for the back end of the year. (Think these back spasms were weather related or lack of regular work?) But you can't have a guy this age go that long without work.

When Myers returns, does Happ stay and spell Eaton for a month? I say that will probably happen.

As for pulling Utley last night... I was okay with it... but I might have pulled Jroll. He seems to have the biggest need for a mental break right now. And until the All Star break, can Charlie not pull Burrell until we have a lead in the 9th. Thank you!

[NEPhilliesPhan]

****Taguchi adds no value and should be replaced with Donald. ****

Yeah, I've been saying that for 6 weeks now. No one is listening though.

[Lake Fred]

I can't type worth a crap. I meant to write: Carson's a heart fan and WHEN he vents, he doesn't need some stat head jumping all over him.

[NEPhilliesPhan]

****Despite Ryan Howard's vast amount of K's and his low BA, he should be an All Star player because of his HRs and RBIs. ****

No he really really shouldn't be. Pat Burrell should have been an AS instead of Ludwick especially as Pujols was already going for the Cards.

On Seanez, if healthy he needs more work. If he's been hurting he needs to go on the DL. I don't understand the Phillies refusal to put guys on the DL. It started this year with Rollins and that fiasco...then Gordon, and now Seanez. Just put them on the DL so they can actually heal. Last night we needed another bullpen arm and it wasn't there because of these mistakes.

****When Myers returns, does Happ stay and spell Eaton for a month? I say that will probably happen.****

I'd keep Happ at this point.

[Wes Chamberlain]

We all know that the players love Charlie and he has been pretty good this year wiht his in game substitutions (except for the over use of pinch runners for Burrell). But at what point does he start getting some of the blame for the offensive woes. Sure when you look at the numbers, they have scored a lot of runs, but this offense has not been very good with moving runners and manufacturing runs. Part of that is on the players for not executing, but I think a lot of it falls on Charlie's shoulders.

Has there ever been one hit and run under Charlie's tenure? I can't ever remember it. I know the hit and run is used less in all of baseball these days, but with a contact hitter like Utley and speedy runners like Jimmy and Vic, why not try it every once in a while. And why not have more sacrifice bunts from non-pitchers to move runners?

This offense needs a whole new approach, sititng around waiting for the big homerun just doesn't seem to be cutting it these days.

[clicheguevara]

The late game replacements are getting ridiculous at this point. These aren't the first two games we have made a strong comeback only to come to pitiful So or Geoff and lay over. Hasn't anyone noticed that Pat has not made a single error this year in 667 innings? So has 2 errors in 69 innings in left field! Where is the upgrade there?!

And if there is one thing this team has proved, it's that they are almost NEVER out of the game. They have a fantastic tendency to get lots of runs late in the games: guys like PAT, Jayson, and all our pinch hitters have been consistently "clutch" in these situations. This is the mark of a good team people, but Chollie is squandering this ability by making our lineup weaker.

Why would Chollie throw Dobbs in at third with Eaton on the mound? He is a groundball pitcher, like Kendrick, like Moyer. I'm OK with him starting occasionally even though he performs much better as pinch better, but his starts should come when defense at 3B won't be a liability. Isn't this why we got Feliz in the first place? The decision at 3B was the difference between a win and a loss last night.

Many of the lineup changes made recently has seemed random. Chollie does not stick with lineups that seem to work, nor doe he seem to match them to the opposition. These are the little things that blow close games.

[Jack]

Jason is right about Catcher not being a huge problem. While Ruiz is certainly one of the worst catchers in the league offensively, a) he is good defensively b)most of the other catchers in the league are not very good either and c) Coste gets close to half the starts and is a very good offensive catcher.

In the realm of the hypothetical, trading Burrell for Kemp would hurt us this season clearly, but would obviously be good for the team long-term. Kemp would be cheap for the next few year (and has the chance to be a very good player) whereas Burrell either is gone or will be very expensive to bring back. Obviously not gonna happen, and I wouldn't do it because it would hurt the team this year and I love Pat, but I can see the rationale behind whoever was saying it.

Part of me tends to agree with the poster who said just let Happ and Carrasco take spots and the rotation and see what they can do. If we're not gonna trade for a Harden or Burnett, then just throw out the young arms we have and see if we get lucky, like the Rockies did with Jimenez and Morales last year. A little part of me thinks that.

[bay_area_phan]

jason: I have 2 problems with that logic. The first problem is that there are gradations of no-hit catchers, & Ruiz falls about 11 standard deviations below your garden variety no-hit catcher. Other teams' no-hit, good-defense catchers hit .255 or at least provide some pop or some on-base skills (see, e.g., Brian Schneider, Mike Napoli, Chris Synder, Kurt Suzuki). The 2007 version of Carlos Ruiz was a no-hit, good defense catcher, which our offense could tolerate. The 2008 version can't be tolerated, no matter how good his defense (which is good, not great).

The other problem I have with the logic is that the Phillies also have a no-hit, defensive third baseman, a no-hit right fielder (when Jenkins starts), and a no-hit center fielder. There has to be an offensive upgrade somewhere, and catcher is the only one of these positions where there is a guy in their minor league system who looks like he can help.

[baxter]

Burrell leading all outfielders in OPS is exactly why he should be traded. If the Phillies aren't planning on resigning him, they're better off getting something in return. At this point, Burrell has tremendous value and could fetch us 3 or 4 good young players, including at least one who'd help immediately. This might also provide the depth needed to acquire a starting pitcher. Or they could just trade Burrell for pitching. What ever happened to the old-fashioned talent-for-talent baseball trade?

Hey I'd much, much, much rather resign Burrell, but if they're just gonna let him walk, I'd rather get something in return.

[Brian G]

Jason: Along the line of what cookies said(seemingly with as little punctuation as possible)... the question is whether ruiz's defense/rapport with the pitching staff/etc is so valuable that it offsets having basically two pitchers in an inconsistent, struggling lineup? And is the downgrade Marson would be defensively so much that it wouldn't be offset by the upgrade from Ruiz to probably a "Jayson Werth with slightly less power" quality hitter? (just guessing that Marson would be in that area).
The answer may be yes, Ruiz's defense is that valuable, but simply saying that it's ok for a catcher to be a bad hitter doesn't accurately take the tradeoffs available into consideration.

[NEPhilliesPhan]

****At this point, Burrell has tremendous value and could fetch us 3 or 4 good young players, including at least one who'd help immediately.****

No he wouldn't. Even Sabathia only got that much and his value far exceeds Burrell's. Trading Burrell would say we've given up on this season and are rebuilding for next year. Our core is already old enough...we can't trade Burrell away and give up another year of ability for Utley/Howard/Rollins.

[Lake Fred]

NEphan, I think the runaway league leader in RBIs should be on the All Star team. PtB should be, too. I did add some sarcasm that Howard would look good on TV striking out!

I agree with you about Happ. I can envision the future Phillies rotation being built from with the organization instead of from guys like Sabathia. We have other starters a year or two away.

I'd trade away both Myers and Eaton for prospects. They've both worn out their welcome with me and would look good pitching for Seattle or some other hapless AL team.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Eaton will get you the kind of prospect that the Phils have in AAA, they're called "non prospects" and still cost you the cash. Myers' value is at its lowest point. Might as well hope he can turn it around.

[J. Weitzel]

You're selling Feliz a little short, aren't you? I wouldn't call him a no-hit third baseman like you could with Nunez. Pretty good pinch hit back up the middle plated two runs in the ninth last night. "There has to be an offensive upgrade somewhere." Like our second baseman with 25 homers, right? Our SS was MVP last season. Ruiz is spliting time, too; you're coparing him with starting guys like Schneider. Coste is getting a lot of starts.

[GM-Carson]

Lake Fred- thanks for coming to my defense. I am a "heart fan". I like stats and all, their the DNA of baseball, but when it all boils down I follow and love the Phils because that's what my heart feels.

About Marson- I'd love to have him in Philly, but he doesn't know this pitching staff at all and Ruiz does. Ruiz is good behind the plate, just not good at the plate. I'm mad at Ruiz, but he's not the main culprit of failure right now.

[Jerry]

Please. Can I not hear one more time how Charlie is a good manager because the players like him? In many (too many) years working in companies of all sizes, of course I've seen some correlation between success and "liking" by the employees, but it's not necessarily a predictor of overall success. How about an company organizational plan and game strategy?

[Brian G]

Burrell has a full no trade clause and won't waive it for anything. I'm not one to shoot down discussion but in this case it's absolutely meaningless. He's also one of the best LF in the majors right now on a team whose offense has struggled lately, so even if we could trade him it'd be a stupid idea.

[bay_area_phan]

The trade deadline dance that we're going through right now is the same dance we go through every off-season. The Phillies make lots of noise, to let their fans know that they are really, really interested in acquiring whatever big-time starting pitcher happens to be out there on the market. And when the dust settles, that big-time starter ends up going to one of their rivals, while the Phillies settle for the likes of Adam Eaton, Kyle Lohse (pre-2008 version), Ryan Franklin, Corey Lidle, or Jon Lieber.

When Gillick says the Phillies might get someone off the "B list," it's clear that he is preparing fans for this same outcome. While the Brewers get Sabathia, the Cubs get Harden, and the Dodgers get Burnett, the Phillies will end up with either Randy Wolf or Paul Byrd. Worse still, when they do acquire Wolf or Byrd, he will undoubtedly take Happ's spot in the rotation instead of Eaton's.

[NEPhilliesPhan]

****When Gillick says the Phillies might get someone off the "B list," it's clear that he is preparing fans for this same outcome. While the Brewers get Sabathia, the Cubs get Harden, and the Dodgers get Burnett, the Phillies will end up with either Randy Wolf or Paul Byrd. Worse still, when they do acquire Wolf or Byrd, he will undoubtedly take Happ's spot in the rotation instead of Eaton's.****

I see at least one person has been paying attention the last decade or so.

[Wes Chamberlain]

Jerry-

That's exactly what I was getting at. Sure it is fine that the players like Charlie, but that only gets you so far. There seems to be no offensive gameplan. It seems to me that Charlie just says, "Go up there and swing away boys!"

I would love to see more of an offensive strategy. Try and get a little creative. Ruiz isn't hitting..so have him sac bunt a runner over. Use Utley's contact hitting and Jimmy/Vic speed to hit and run. How about a suicide squeeze. When Howard bats with no one on and the shift, have him bunt down the third base line. Just do some little things here and there to shake things up and bring some energy back to what seems to be a lethargic offense.

With no offensive gameplan, we make things much too easy on opposing pitchers and defenses.

[CJ]

Man, it's been so long since I've been able to say this:

Pat Burrell has a FULL NO TRADE CLAUSE.

Moving on...

[Dull]

Yesterday was the tale of two lefthanded relievers. In Portland Me. Josh Outman comes on to protect a 2-0 Reading lead and gives up hits to the first three lefthanded batters he faces. Last night R.J. Swindle comes on and retires all 4 lefties he faces including striking out Delgado twice swinging. Wonder where the FO ever got the impression that Outman can be a quality lefthanded reliever? It's a shame. I thought he could some day be a 3-4 rotation ML starter.

[CJ]

I doubt we would care very much about Ruiz's offense right now if the rest of the team weren't struggling. We're averaging under 4 runs a game since we got 20 against St. Louis.

[jobbers]

Eaton to the bullpen anyone? (If Myers does OK in AAA and Happ pitches well his next couple of starts . . oh and if Eaton sucks his next couple of starts to).

A few 'ifs' in there!

[Brian G]

Here's a pretty stupid article on Gillick for anyone who cares(Buster Olney linked to it):
http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/
story.html?id=638532

[Iceman]

ESPN keeps talking 'Harden to Cubs.' Meanwhile, Gillick asks the Indians for Paul Byrd's medical records.

In other news, I just stuck my head in the oven.

[bay_area_phan]

jason: That Feliz has done somewhat better than expected does not change the fact that he is one of the worst offensive third basemen in the National League. Yes, Utley is having a fine year (although I, frankly, preferred the .330-hitting Chase Utley with 30-homerun power to the .295-hitting Chase Utley with 40-homerun power). And yes, Rollins is the defending MVP, though he isn't playing like it. But, except for a big game now and then against terrible pitching, the Phillies have been offensively inept for the last 6 weeks. And, as clout pointed out last night, our team OBP is way, way down from last year.

Ruiz may not be at the epicenter of our problems, but I don't see how anyone can say that a guy with 204 PAs and a .575 OPS isn't a problem. When there may be a significant upgrade in your very own farm system, it's irresponsible not to try him at some point.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Eaton gives up runs in the first inning w/out fail. Putting him in "relief" does not help that.

[J. Weitzel]

"Ruiz may not be at the epicenter of our problems." You and I agree then, because I'm not happy with the .575 OPS, either.

[none]

People complain about lack of grind it out spirit, but this team won more than its fair share of come from behind games earlier this year. Still, the problem is consistency. By now, they've blown whatever advantage those early victories gave them.

[Jerry]

And your clean-up hitter is hitting .187 vs. lefties, which every team brings in when it's important. Swindle would win the Cy Young if he only pitched to Howard.

[NEPhilliesPhan]

**** When there may be a significant upgrade in your very own farm system, it's irresponsible not to try him at some point.****

The really funny thing is that even if Ruiz or Coste went down, Jaramillo would likely get the call in front of Marson.

[CJ]

bap: I'm not one to defend Pedro Feliz, but I believe Blake Dewitt is actually worse so far this year!

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Hell, i wouldn't mind seeing some Jaramillo.

[brio]

If Milt Thompson makes $25 per day he's overpaid.

[mike cunningham]

@bap -- the trade deadline is about getting complimentary parts to your already playoff bound lineup. The idea of blowing your proverbial l**d on a player who will start once every 5 days, is not a guarantee that will put you over the top. I can't find the article but I read the other day, where it listed out trade deadline pitchers that didn't quite put teams over the top.

The trade deadline is perfect for Value Village type deals where you can get catch lightening in a bottle for your already stacked team.

If you are desperate to improve your rotation at the TOP end instead of the back end. You will waste prospects for little return. The time to improve the rotation was after the Lidge trade. The Phillies put Myers in that spot and said everything was kosher.

And If Harden and Burnett are only on the "A" list, because they are the best "potential" over the other re-treads. Harden could easily become the next Freddy Garcia.

[jobbers]

What to do with Eaton then BB? He must be just about un-tradeable!

[The Turth Injection]

Lake Fred- I don't really need to be categorized as a "stat fan" because I'm not. I'm a heart fan and have been through a lot of rotten years.

Being that I'm a heart fan I will fiercely defend my tema when someone attributes them being in first place to luck. It's not being a stat fan to say they have had a top bullpen this year, and that they are playing well on the road. Being a heart fan doesn't mean you need to sacrifice common sense and logic.

Also, I agree with JW. Ruiz is really low on the list of Phillies issues right now. If Coste became anything more than a platoon guy he would get badly exposed I think. They will tinker with some things before the trade deadline and hopefully it works.

[Jon]

Yes, it was still a loss last night. I didn't think I would see any fight in this team, especially after Utley was given the night off. They showed me a little something, however Eaton was just brutal. He and Taguchi really have no place on this team. While Eaton has been better than last year, he still sucks. Taguchi has not shown me one thing this year. It woudn't bother me in the least if either of them were no longer on the team. Unfortunately, that probably won't happen anytime soon...

[The Truth Injection]

Stupid computer didn't keep my info meaning I messed up spelling my name. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[Alby]

"Hey I'd much, much, much rather resign Burrell, but if they're just gonna let him walk, I'd rather get something in return."

I understand your position, Baxter, but not your timing. I've never seen a team surrender on the current season while it's in first place. And unless you have a right-handed bat who can post a 1.000 OPS, trading Burrell is surrender.

[Andy]

I bet Harden would be fine on a team with it's own chiropractor.

CJ - You forgot to use bold italics (Like this:
FULL NO TRADE CLAUSE!!)
(I also added the exclamation points.)

jobbers - But Eaton is doing so much better this year!

[Andy]

Oh, that's what I wanted to say; Jason, could you add, in the Eaton picture, a line of about 6 or 8 numbers on a strip, just below chin level. It would make it correlate with my current opinion of where Mr. E ought to be "starting."

Maybe a few "height lines" on the wall behind him, too.

[Lake Fred]

Sorry, Truth Injection, the last thread was so long, I didn't go back to analyze your category. I apologize. I guess over the years, in BL, the stat heads jump all over the heart fans all the time. I just generalized you into that category. Please accept my poor categorization of you. I'm a heart fan that leans towards being a tweener when I find time to look over all the stats.

[mike cunningham]

If we are in first or striking distance of first by the deadline trading Burrell makes no sense.

If this is a full on collapses as some of the glass is 3/4 empty posters have suggested. Than you must trade Burrell, unfortunately.

even though he has a
FULL NO TRADE CLAUSE

either way, i'm not sure if burrell is in left field for the phils next year.

[Lake Fred]

I meant: Please accept my apology for my poor categorization of you.

[Dave X]

In terms of OPS decline from position productivity from this year to last year, this is the order from highest (top) to lowest (bottom).

1B (-136)
SS (-132)
CF (-106)
RF (-86)
C (-23)
3B (+29)
2B (+38)
LF (+72)
PH (+126)

As you can see, the biggest declines have come from Howard, Rollins, and the loss of Rowand. Howard has been average at best this year and his struggles have been discussed a lot. Rollins had a career year last year and is now producing closer to his past production. Rowand leaving downgraded both CF and RF offensively.

[Wes Chamberlain]

What kind of trade clause does Burrell have?

[phanatic's brother]

Anyone read the article before the season started about Ruiz and how he watches video of his swing and works really hard on hitting and how he expected to be a better hitter this year.
I keep thinkin about that article and how weird it is he worse than last year.

Some people argue it doesnt matter if he hits since he is a good catcher and knows the staff. I would accept that if we had better pitchers. This team is built around offense, he does not fit in.

[NEPhilliesPhan]

~laughs at Chamberlain's comment~

[jobbers]

oooh Andy you are such a cheeky teaser

[Alby]

So many crazy ideas, so little time:

"Ruiz isn't hitting..so have him sac bunt a runner over."

Nice idea, unless you've ever seen Ruiz try to bunt.

"Harden could easily become the next Freddy Garcia."

Not exactly. Garcia's career was notable for his workhorse ability -- lots of seasons over 200 IP, never on the DL. Harden is, well, exactly the opposite. He's more like the next Mark Prior, and might come rather cheaply because of it. I'd prefer Harden to Sabathia, because we're already LH-heavy in the rotation.

All the anti-Eaton posters:

Eaton isn't just better than last year, he's also listed in the top half of ML pitchers by VORP. Granted, his 4.9 is no great shakes, but it's actually better than Joe Blanton, Paul Byrd and AJ Burnett, all of whom have been frequently mentioned as trade bait.

[Sophist]

Dave X - Interesting numbers. I do think it oversimplifies the matter a bit to entirely attribute the offensive loss at CF and RF to Rowand's departure.

For instance, Jenkins career numbers are .275/.344/.491, a 114 OPS+ in 11 seasons. This year he's hitting .237/.287/.384, a 72 OPS+.

Granted last season he showed signs of slowing down a bit, but he still SLG .471 and had a 101 OPS+.

He's probably the second most likely Phil, after Rollins, for a big second half. Rollins missed time with injury and has been the opposite of lucky.

[Jack]

How did we get better at 3rd offensively if we signed the worst 3rd baseman in the league? Oh, that's right, Feliz is better than Helms/Dobbs as a platoon. Like I said all offseason, and now the numbers back that up. So we got an offensive and defensive upgrade?

Before Clout and others jump on me, I of course would have much rather gotten a better upgrade- Lowell, for instance. However, my only point is that the numbers back that Feliz is, in fact, an upgrade over the awful, awful Helms/Dobbs/Nunez rotation of last year.

[RSB]

Why would people even bother talking about any trade rumor involving Burrell at this point? Why would they possibly be looking to trade Burrell, who's probably been their most consistent hitter this year and the lone dangerous right-handed hitter in the lineup, at a time when Manuel is concerned about the offense? If a rumor doesn't make any sense, you don't have to pay any attention to it.

The halcyon days of the bullpen are rapidly ending. Now Seanez and Romero are claiming minor injuries, and Gordon's already down for the count. That means heavier reliance on Durbin and Madson; here's hoping they're up for it. Meanwhile, everyone's (least) favorite Iron Pig is grunting and squealing about being assured a return after the All-Star break. It seems likely that the only reason Myers accepted the demotion is because they told him it was strictly a temporary measure, and that he was guaranteed to be back after the break. Alas.

[Sophist]

Alby, Blanton is having a terrible year. 1.413 WHIP, 80 ERA+. His K/BB ratio last year was 7/2. So far this year it's 12/7.

[mike cunningham]

@Alby -- when I said the next Freddy Garcia, i just meant someone who would likely not help us by getting hurt. The Prior analogy is probably better. But I was using it reference to the Phils.

[Jack]

RSB and CJ and others: Relax about Burrell. As I said in my comment, a Burrell trade is purely hypothetical. We're just having some fun talking about baseball. Thanks for coming in and telling us what we can and can't talk about though.

[Lake Fred]

Alby, since you state that Eaton is listed in the top half of ML pitchers by VORP, then it must mean that over half of ML pitchers must also suck, too! Eaton is like the Mendoza line for pitchers. If you are worse than Eaton in some stat, you must suck big time!

[NEPhilliesPhan]

Harden has reportedly had some downturn in his velocity his last 2 starts or so...that could just be tiredness or it could be a huge warning flag about him about to breakdown.

[RSB]

Well, why don't we just talk about a Adam Eaton for Scott Kazmir trade scenario, Jack. That has about as much plausibility. Sure is fun to talk about, though!

[Jack]

RSB: Go for it

[willie]

The time to give Swindell two innings of work to see how he does on a major league level is when we are leading by 8 runs, not behind. Manuel forefitted the game when he made this decision.

The bats are starting to come back to life, but I can see absolutely no good reason not to sign Bonds at the prorated league minimum that he is requesting and use Jenkins and Worth off of the bench. You can argue that it would be a "clubhouse distraction," but having a cleanup hitting first baseman who strikes out with such regularity is something this club simply cannot continue to contend with. Better to make a playoffs chase with Rollins-Victorino-Utley-Bonds-Burrell-Howard than to try to get the job done as is.

[baxter]

I thought OPS was going out of style, but its the only stat referenced here. Maybe thats just how trends go...

[NEPhilliesPhan]

willie: but I can see absolutely no good reason not to sign Bonds at the prorated league minimum that he is requesting

Funny, I can think of about a million reasons not to sign that piece of scum.

[Sophist]

Tonight should be an easy win, to make an irrelevant point. Cole Hamels up against Joel Pineiro and his Eatonesque numbers (1.348 WHIP, 93 ERA+, 4.52 ERA. He's coming off two poor starts.

Hopefully the bats remember those late innings from last night. This is a find the momentum series.

[Jimmie J.]

Here's what I see happening: Happ stays in the rotation and Myers moves into the bullpen as a middle-man until he proves he can be promoted to a set-up reliever. Gordon may be done. Swindel hangs around as the second lefty reliever. By the end of July, the Phillies decide to eat Eaton's contract and release him. Taguchi is traded or released and the Phillies pick up a superior defensive 1st baseman reserve with a respectable bat. Bruntlett can pick up outfield slack when needed.

[Alby]

Fred: I know you were partly kidding, but VORP stands for Value Over Replacement Player; it's the major metric for the Baseball Prospectus web site. It's a counting stat in some ways, in that more innings pitched (or ABs) give you a higher score -- provided they are quality innings. As I noted, 4.9 is no great shakes, but it's at least in positive territory.

Sophist: Yes, Blanton has been lousy this season. So have Burnett and Byrd. According to VORP, Eaton has been mediocre, which is much better than last year, when he was the worst in MLB.