Monday: Phillies complete series win in St. Louis

Pat Burrell and Shane Victorino fueled a four-run eighth inning, while the bullpen escaped disaster, as the Phils edged the Cards under the bright lights of prime time television.

They’re all important, but there’s something extra special about last night’s win. It was the deciding game of a three-game series, on the road, closing out a six-game road trip. The Mets and Marlins lost earlier. The Phillies hadn’t won a series against a quality opponent in weeks. It took eight innings for the offense to loosen up, but they finally did. Pat Burrell, as he’s done so many times this season, comes through in the clutch. Then, Shane Victorino, who’s carrying the offense more than anyone latley, lands the deciding blow with his seventh home run since July 12.

They caught a couple breaks, too. Ryan Ludwick, who was superhuman this series, mushed a Ryan Madson first-pitch fastball into the dirt for an inning-ending double play with ducks on the pond in the eighth. Then in the ninth, Brad Lidge worked out of another bases-loaded jam with back-to-back strikeouts, making it 28 saves in as many tries.

After walking the prime-time tightrope, the Phils improved to 61-50 (.550), extending their National League East lead to 2.5 games over Florida and 3 games over New York.

J-Roll: The MVP glide continues for Jimmy Rollins and I’m sick of it. Rollins went 0-for-5 including a half-hearted strikeout in his final at bat. He’s lost his edge. It’s plain as day. Is he hurt? Is he pissed? What’s happened to him? There's been no greater disappointment than J-Roll. He's the biggest reason why the offense is dragging ass. He looks like he'd rather be somewhere else. His dip in production would be easier to take if he wasn't so outwardly indifferent. He's hitting .263/.330/.431 and has crossed home plate just 50 stinkin’ times. He scored 139 a year ago. He's better than this. Get in the fight, Jimmy.

Comments

[king myno]

To be fair, as Sophist will point out, he'd put together a string of good games before last night's lackluster showing.

[Reed]

JW, well said on Rollins

[The Theory]

Wow, that last number is shocking. For a lead-off hitter with Utley/Howard/Burrell behind him, that is pretty much the eye-popping stat of the day...

[AWH the RBP]

JW, don't forget this important play in the 8th that Bob pointed out at the tail end of the prevous thread:

"Also noticed Utley's incessant hustle, .....
Then in the 8th, he hustled out that discouraging grounder and prevented a DP (would the 2008 Rollins have done that?). Bingo, playing the game right ends up helping to set the table for Vic's HR. Don't know how you measure those intangibles, but he is one of a kind."

[AWH the RBP]

from the previous thread:

clout, you're correct. Good column by Conlin.

Does Conlin read BeerLeaguer, because you and I, among others, have been discussing this for months.

Hey clout, which is the causal relationship?

Did Gillick's leaving a team lead to the decline because the FO wasn't as skilled as he, or, did he see the writing on the wall and 'get out of Dodge' before things went bad? I suspect the sly old fox did the latter.

Isn't it interesting that he only signed a contract that expired the same season that Pat Burrell's does. Coincidence, or did he see something in the makeup of this team?

Hmmm, window of opportunity.

I've posted it before and I'll do it again:
No Pat Burrell (or an equivalent RH bat) in 2009 means the window shuts.

Now, if someone can post for me who Burrell's replacement will be, and what it will cost the 2009 "oxymoron" to replace it, I'm 'all eyes'.

Go Phils! Let's hope they do it this year!

[joe]

Victorino and Rollins should be swapped in the lineup.

[AWH the RBP]

JW, I'm going to disagree that Lidge "caught a break".

Lidge has the stuff to K batters and get out of an inning when he gets into a jam.

No break - last night he turned it up a notch when he had to.

Isn't great having a closer who can do that?

[sneed]

I couldn't agree more. Rollins is the most significant reason our offense has been inconsistent this year. Utley's slump would be 2nd but he a) carried us in April to a winning record and b) seems to have snapped out of it recently. J-Roll needs to return to form if we are to have any chance of making a playoff run.

That said, the Cubs are the best team in the NL hands down. That's plain as day. The Brewers are beatable because they play inconsistent baseball. Myers and Blanton were encouraging this weekend - making that two solid appearances in a row from Brett. Against Washington he was wild and hit some batters but last night he didn't give up a free pass and used only 64 pitches to throw 6 innings. We have to feel good about that right now.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Morgan or Miller said at the beginning of the broadcase that Rollins said he's feeling better now than he has all season...

[EastFallowfield]

How the Cards ducks moved around the pond in the 8th:

Single
Balk-runner to 2nd
Ground out-runner to 3rd
Error-run scores
HBP, runner to 2nd
Walk, bases loaded
DP

You could also say that since 4 of the 5 positive events in that inning for STL were handed to them by the Phillies that the Cards had more luck than the Phils.

[king myno]

I'm sure Conlin's story is going to make Golson cry into his Cheerios.

[Jack]

There's no reason for Rollins to be leading off right now, not when Victorino is hitting like this. It won't happen, because of Charlie's style and because they probably think Rollins needs carrots, not more sticks, but Shane is quite clearly putting in a better offensive season than Jimmy and deserves to be leading off. Against lefties, I would throw out this lineup:

Shane
Werth
Utley
Burrell
Howard
Jimmy
Feliz
C
P

and against righties:

Shane
Jimmy
Utley
Howard
Burrell
Dobbs
Jenkins
C
P

[JZ]

Well said on Mr. Rollins.

As for hustle, how great were Utley and Werth both sprinting (and sliding) after the ball in the ninth to make sure the runner had to stop on third? I love that stuff.

[Tony D]

The danger to demoting Jimmy is that he could go in the tank for the rest of the year. He's been benched twice already, if you bump him to 7th he might say "F this" and shut it down.

[Jack]

Tony D: Exactly why it won't happen, and that's a very valid point. As manager, I probably wouldn't do it. But as a fan speaking strictly on terms of what would most help the team based on their performances so far, Shane should be leading off.

[Josh]

Lidge got at least as many bad breaks as good -- after the Glaus HR, the two Cards hits were a bloop prayer slap shot to left and a potential DP ball off Howard's glove.

[MG]

Tony - There is a huge difference between changing the order around a bit to give it a spark than benching JRoll. Completely different issues. If anything, Cholly should say to JRoll, "look we are looking for a spark for our offense and we really need some production out of the 6 out since Jenkins just isn't getting the job done."

Not like the Phils are putting JRoll 7th or 8th in the lineup and if JRoll gets offended by that than their are bigger issues between Cholly and JRoll.

[NEPP]

The window doesn't shut in 2009 if we end up getting a top line starter with Pat's money instead. Say we sign someone like Sabathia or Sheets...we're still a contender as long as we get a decent OF bat (say a .800 OPS instead of Burrell's .900 career numbers). We do that and we're a decent offensive club with very good pitching.

[Bill]

Great piece on Rollins. Joe Morgan was right (first time ever!) about the Phillies. If Rollins can have a big finish, the Phillies will pull away from the pack and win the division. If he does not, it will be a dog fight.

http://myteamrivals.typepad.com/phightin_phils_phorum/

[The Theory]

Then perhaps Jimmy needs to grow a pair. I have no sympathy for the ego trips of major leaguers making millions of dollars who think that the team should revolve around them.

[Jack]

Also, this is for PhillR, who thinks that Victorino is "league-average" or below. In terms of EqA, which is actually the best offensive stat, better than OPS+ because it includes baserunning in overall offensive value, Victorino is tied for 9th among qualifying CF. EqA is measured on a scale similar to batting average, so that .260 is exactly league-average, and .300 indicates a star. Here are the top 10 CF in EqA:

Mclouth .314
Sizemore .314
Hamilton .305
Ankiel .303
Beltran .290
Upton .285
Kemp .285
Granderson .284
Victorino .279
Ichiro .279

Some pretty good company for Shane. And that doesn't include defense, where he is probably at least comparable to, on that list, McLouth, Hamilton, Ankiel, Upton and Kemp. But yeah, he's "easily replaceable".

[AWH the RBP]

The window doesn't shut in 2009 if we end up getting a top line starter with Pat's money instead. Say we sign someone like Sabathia or Sheets...we're still a contender as long as we get a decent OF bat (say a .800 OPS instead of Burrell's .900 career numbers). We do that and we're a decent offensive club with very good pitching.

Posted by:NEPP | Monday, August 04, 2008 at 10:55 AM

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

NEPP, I haven't laughed so hard in weeks.

This team has NO CHANCE - NONE - of landing either of those pitchers.

If you can't figure it out, I'll let others tell you why.

[Colin_K]

How much is Jimmy making per year? Wasn't it a 5 yr $40M deal he signed in 2003-2004 timeframe?
My contention all along this season has been that now he is 4th on the salary hierarchy of the big time guys in the lineup (I know Utley is behind him, but he makes up for it in the length of his deal).

1. Pat Burrell 14,250,000
2. Ryan Howard 10,000,000
3. Brett Myers 8,583,333
4. Jimmy Rollins 8,000,000
5. Chase Utley 7,785,714

[BobbyD]

Rollins is definitley killing the lineup. It seemed like he was starting to get some better swings but now he's going backwards again.

[dajafi]

Rollins had a bad last two games, going 0 for 9. Friday night he drew three walks and a steal, which is pretty good on a night when they needed baserunners. And in the five games before that, he was 8 for 22 with two doubles, two homers, and eight runs scored. So let's try not to get all WIP based on two bad games.

[NEPP]

Vic is what we call a "complimentary" player...one of those non-AS guys who is invaluable to the club for what they do contribute. He's the guy who plays the hero once every couple weeks and does alot of little things.

[Colin_K]

I didn't finish my thought...he's pissed that that all the other big guns are making more than him.

[Reed]

Colin_K, you forgot Adam Eaton's bs contract

[NEPP]

****This team has NO CHANCE - NONE - of landing either of those pitchers.

If you can't figure it out, I'll let others tell you why.****

I'm well aware that it WON'T happen. All I said was that if it did then the window wouldn't close. I have been paying attention the past 20 years afterall.

[Tony D]

Jimmy also hit a couple balls hard last night. The one hopper to Pujols was crushed. To me he looked frusrtated more than anything. But the smiling can come off the wrong way to fans.

[Colin_K]

Reed, I got the salary's from espn, they must exclude him because hes getting lit up in low-A Lakewood.
How can I forget it?
Think of it this way, The Marlins payroll for 2008 is $22M. Less than what PG paid Eaton for 3 years...which would you rather have?

[J. Weitzel]

dajafi: It's not just two bad games though. He's had a disappointing season and was benched twice.

[GoPhilsGo]

"...he's pissed that that all the other big guns are making more than him."

If that's true, J-Roll has a funny way of proving he deserves more.
As it gets closer to the end of the season, I think he will step it up

[NEPP]

On a related note after watching last night's game...Lidge's slider should be criminal. He made those final 2 batters look like little-leaguers up there at a point where I was sure he was gonna finally blow a save.

[GoPhilsGo]

NEPP---so true.
Amazing performance by Lidge. It seemed like the only way to get out of that brutal situation was to strike out the next two batters, and he threw the nastiest, unhittable stuff, not to mention he avoided facing Albert.

[denny b.]

Who gets in a game first?

Happ, Cervenek or Walrond?

If these guys come up and never get in a game, does this stint count as major league time?

Happ was in a really good rhythm. By tomorrow's first pitch, he will have thrown 2 innings, in the past 2 weeks. Now, if he does ever get in a game in the majors, I would worry he will be all over the place with his command, and be off his game. I hope they haven't set him back, by not pitching him.

This is the best 22 man roster in the majors right now.

One other thing...

I get so sick and tired of hearing the buffoon's on Baseball Tonight (Steve Phillips) talk about how the "Phillies have weak starting pitching". Hey, Steve. Have someone do some research for you, and check how many quality starts the Phils starters have given, since mid June. Check how many quality starts, they have had since the All-Star Break. You might be surprised, since you obviously aren't paying close attention to the sport you are supposed to be an expert on.

[EastFallowfield]

Imagine if somehow Lidge keeps it up...converts every save opportunity and loses only one game-the All Star game.

Rivera the only other 'perfect' reliever-and he's lost 4 games...

[Lake Fred]

It's tough living in the hinterland of MLB. This weekend I listened to the Sat. & Sun. Houston Astros on a tiny radio station out of Slidell, LA. I enjoyed listening to the Mets lose two and be swept by the lowly Lastros.

Astros legendary announcer, Milo Hamilton, doesn't mince words. On Pedro Martinez, he says that Pedro no longer has the good stuff and has to rely on control and location to fool the batters. On the Rat, after the Rat had given up hits to the first two batters; Milo said that when you don't have it, the batters know and will get hits off you. The Rat went on to blow the save and lose the game. Now I read where the Rat just had an MRI.

I drove from New Orleans to Houston last night and could not find one ESPN station carrying the game. A Lafayette, LA station was carrying ESPN guys talking about Bret Farve. I like Brett Farve, but I'm sick of the "Brett Favre Unretires" story.

The Baton Rouge sports station was carrying Fox and one guy called in to complain that the ESPN guys in their eastern-centric mode were only saying nice things about the Phillies and nothing about the Cardinals. I guess Philly's close proximity to NY explains that bias.

I ended up listening to the end of the Texas Rangers Dallas station 1080-AM broadcast of their game with Toronto in order to get Phillies score updates. I hate to admit that I didn't know (or care about) any of the Texas or Toronto players.

Is the last Blanton outing for real? Can we expect this kind of stuff when he pitches again?

[CJ]

Great stuff by Lidge last night to get the last two hitters to K. Hitting Izturis might have been a blessing in disguise. The next two young, righthanded hitters were completely overmatched. Lidge threw 7 sliders, six for swining strikes. They looked terrible. My wife watched with me and was amazed. "How does he make the ball do that?" she asked me. All I could say was, "I don't know, but he does it better than just about anyone."

I can't tell how happy I am that I (and clout) were wrong about Lidge being the closer he is today.

[bay_area_phan]

I saw that Tom Gordon made a rehab start at Single A Clearwater last night. He gave up a homerun and 2 earned runs in .2 innings, getting charged with the loss.

[CJ]

Lake Fred: Blanton's stuff was significantly better against the Cardinals. The ball just seemed "heavy." If he can pitch like that the rest of the way, and Myers can keep up his recent form... we'll run away with this thing in the East.

[MG]

Conlin's article is an ok but missing the point that he is leaving the Phils loaded potentially with a series of crappy contracts for next to the tune of $20M+ (Feliz, Jenkins, Eaton). If Myers doesn't rebound as a starter or the Phils don't move, him then this total approaches almost $35M.

Basically relegates the Phils to make tinkering moves this offseason including not resigning Burrell.

[Reed]

Obviously, this is a big series coming up, but one of the most important things is a well-pitched Hamels game hopefully leading to a series win or sweep. We gotta get this guy (and Rollins) right.

Happ needs work too and SoTag doesn't.

[Sophist]

CJ - I agree. I was going to make the point today about one place where the Phils are stronger than the Cards: the bench. Even with Jenkins and Werth and Dobbs starting last night, the Phils still had Vic off the bench and, at least, a guy with good career PH numbers. With the bases loaded and one out, LaRussa had two rookies. #61 Nick Stavinoha who's played in 11 games in his career and #62 Joe Mather who's played in 31 career games.

Granted that Brian Barton and Chris Duncan are on the DL, but the Cards probably should have made a small splash for a bat before the deadline.

[johnnysanz3]

The only thing I can hope from Gordon is something like last year where he went on the DL for a long time mid season and then had enough in him to pitch some good games for them down the stretch. Hopefully it can turn out that way this year as well. It would be nice.

[CJ]

johnnysanz: Seems pretty clear they're planning for Gordon to be a post-trade deadline "acquisition." If he can perform in August and September like he did last year, I'll be very happy... and very shocked. I worry he just may not have much left.

[Sophist]

Hardball Times' season remaining look at the Phils:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-remains-of-the-season-phillies/

[Sophist]

That THT article is one of the most useless I've ever read on their site. Posted it before I finished reading.

[donc]

The pen certainly could use a fresh Gordon. But it seems like when he comes off the DL it takes him 3 or 4 weeks to knock the rust off. If memory serves he's been pretty poor immediately following a layoff. And god knows, there have been enough of them.

[redbeard]

the rollins situation makes me think if we are seeing something in jimmy that the team isnt, or are they getting just a fed up with the too cool for school attitude as we are?
we already know cholly doesnt appreciate it.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Rollins: I doubt anyone knows how I feel about Rollins play/demeanor over the past few months, and I'll leave it ambiguous.

Lidge: The best part about Lidge criticism is that the worst thing ever said about him is that he has looked "more human" lately. I guess when someone has performed his job every time, without fail, that is the only thing you can say if you are looking to criticize. Brad Lidge is officially not a problem.

Victorino: What a spark-plug Vic is. These HR's are starting to remind me of Dykstra. He doesn't hit a lot of them, but they always seem to be big ones. He has really been doing this since he has been a Phillie. I recall that his first HR was against the Astros a few years back that gave the Phils the lead (which I think may have been the same game that Wagner went on to blow and cost the Phillies the playoffs). Also his walkoff on his own bobble-head night against the Giants was awesome. Then he ties the game against the Rockies in the playoffs with a solo HR in game 3 after the entire offense had looked completely listless, and it looked like it was inevitable that the Phillies just were not going to score. That was a big HR against the Rox, even if the end result was not desirable. It really seemed to come out of nowhere.

[CJ]

donc: Upon returning from a long DL stint last year (May 1-July 17), Gordon had 4 scoreless appearances where he gave up 2 hits and struck out 2 batters. In his next two outings, he gave up 3 runs. From there to the end of the season, he had 23 scoreless appearances out of his 29 games, including 14 of his last 15.

[tom]

Jack i love both lineups you posted. ESPN did show a stat saying Rollins had the third worst average leading off an inning, or among leadoff men leading off an inning or something.

This year he's led off an inning 147 times. And he's gotten on base 36 times for a .245 obp, by FAR worst in the division among leadoff men. As Sarge would say: "that is NOT getting it done".

Victorino has a respectable .346 OBP when leading off an inning, and a .462 obp when leading off a game, though only with 13 tries.

[NEPP]

**** My wife watched with me and was amazed. "How does he make the ball do that?" she asked me****

Yeah...I've never seen a slider move like that before. They usually break away from or in on a batter depending on which side of the plate he's on. Lidge's slider almost goes over the path of the bat into the dirt. Its such a late break too. Its wicked how effective it is. Though I am happy that Pujols didn't get to come up in the 9th.

[Mr. Mack]

My question is this: How can the Marlins with a $22 million payroll this year, be only 2 games out in August, and showing no signs of letting up just yet?

I'll answer my own question here. They have the talent evaluators (scouts) that must do one helluva job in finding these kids who just play good ball. Pitching and hitting prospects are equally talented on their team, as well as chemistry. A couple of years ago, we all thought that they were crazy to let go of Manager of the Year canidate Joe Girardi who received all of the credit for their good showing. It now seems that they have bounced right back into it with nothing more than adding some more of their young prospects from their system that they drafted and the others who they picked up in trades.

Why are they able to come up with such good prospects in trades? When they unload high priced salaries they receive talented young players/prospects, and yet when the Phillies do the same salary dumping, they receive nothing more than a bag of rocks who you never hear from again. It is obvious that the Phillies FO only cares about stuffing their own pockets with the fans' money, not actually winning. Some posters here actually have the gaul to defend the FO, but when it comes to looking around to see what system is working for other teams, this club just keeps doing whatever it takes to keep the turnstiles turning at a rapid pace. As Conlin states in his article today, only Gillick knows the real deal, and being a good old soldier, will keep it to himself. We will never be told the true story, but we can only surmise by the facts as they are presented to us.

[NEPP]

Another thing on Lidge last night: The HR ball was actually a very good pitch that 9 times out of 10 is popped up or swung and missed. It was off the plate high and inside at 95 MPH and Glaus somehow turned on it...not Lidge's fault really as he hit his location.

[johnnysanz3]

Lidge looks like he is still trying to effectively use his fastball and it gets him in trouble a bit because the location is a little off at times, then he resorts to strictly sliders and strikes everybody out. Imagine if he improves the fastball location as well...

[bay_area_phan]

Gordon's usually good for about one strong 4-to-6 week stretch per season, before he breaks down again. Unfortunately, I think he already used up that stretch back in April and May. If he could have one more similar stretch, it would greatly help the Phillies because, when he's on, he's still a better reliever than anyone in their pen except Lidge and Durbin. But I'd put the odds no better than 1 in 4 that we will get any positive contribution from Gordon between now and October.

[Sophist]

NEPP - I was very impressed with Glaus last night. He had a slow start to the season, but both his RBIs were on very good pitches. That HR was a TOB.

Here's CF who've stolen 20 or more bases and their OPS+.

Sizemore - 143 (27/30)
Upton - 112 (33/47)
Kemp - 111 (26/34)
Vic - 104 (26/34)
Suzuki - 103 (35/38)
Gomez - 73 (21/31)
Taveras - 60 (50/55)
Bourn - 58 (33/41)

[clout]

Um, not sure what game the rest of you were watching, but only one of Lidge's sliders against those two rooks was in the strike zone. They were swinging at what would've been called balls.

[Mr. Mack]

Sophist - Maybe we could deal SoTag back to the Cards since the whole town worhips him and they need bat off the bench. Anything in return works for me. Of course, he will go there and thrive once he leaves town, but he ain't gettin' any of that love here in Philly.

[NEPP]

Um Yeah Clout...that's the point...his slider comes in looking like a strike and then falls off the face of the earth...its called a good pitch.

[tom]

That's kinda the point clout. Throw a pitch that looks like a strike, but isn't. A pitch that batters think they can hit, but can't.

[CJ]

clout: Are you suggesting it's a bad thing that the sliders were out of the strike zone? When Lidge gets ahead in the count, he only throws a slider in the strike zone when he makes a mistake. When he's behind in the count, he'll often throw a slider that settles in the strike zone, but that's rare.

[Sophist]

In the first 38 games of the season, until May 10th, Glaus was batting .221/.336/.344 with 1 HR. Since then, 74 G, he's batting .296/.391/.552 with 18 HR.

Would have been nice if our return on Rolen had produced like that.

[Mr. Mack]

Geez, correct me if I'm wrong, but Lefty made a HOF career out of throwing sliders that looked hittable but fell out of the strike zone and make 4,136 batters to be exact, look foolish while doing it.

[CJ]

Sophist: Glaus clearly juiced up on May 11th!

[NEPP]

Glaus has also been one of the best defensive 3B in the NL too...best FPCT, 5th best RF, 4th best ZR. A good pickup by the Cards.

[vince]

MG I think they will move myers to a team that needs a relief pitcher. That money plus burrell puts us in line for c.c. or harden.But do we really trust them to go after a number one or do they try to sign another eaton type.

[Bonehead]

Myers' 2009 salary is $12MM. Phils will have have share a lot of that with any trading partner.

[Sophist]

NEPP - Especially considering what they gave up. Rolen is .254/.347/.409 this year (102 OPS+), which I guess is slightly better than his 89 OPS+ last year.

Glaus did not have a down year last year. He's very consistent. An OPS+ between 120 and 140 every year since 2004.

[donc]

BAP: Agreed on Gordon. If he comes back effectively, it would be huge. But I don't think it makes sense to expect that. He has been streaky as long as he's been here. When he's been on he's been really tough. But then he cools off and struggles with his location. Then come the walks and the inevitable big innings. I rarely have much faith in him and just about the time he starts to win my confidence, he goes back in the tank. It would be awesome to get one of those 4-6 week streaks you talk about. I am certainly worried that the back end of the bullpen is on the verge of over-work.

[NEPP]

And Glaus is likely not a clubhouse cancer like good ol' Scotty Rolen.

[phlipper]

I never quite get how fans have such conviction that they can interpret how much a player cares about winning, and even more can tell us why a player feels the way he does.

My assumption that a player who makes the majors and does well-enough to win an MVP is someone who cares about performing well in general.

There's no question that Rollins' stats are down this year compared to last. He is likely to pick up his performance by the end of the year; but even if he doesn't, is anyone suggesting a realistic replacement?

It is baffling, however, why Cholly leaves Rollins in the leadoff spot.

[ozark]

Back to Rollins. Maybe Charlie should take a page out of LaRussa's book and bat him 9th. That might wake his lazy ass up.

[Sophist]

One more wild Glaus stat. His #1 comparable through age 30 is Mike Schmidt, which is a nice compliment. Only in Schmidt's age 31 season (1981) his OPS+ was 199. Between 81-87 (ages 31-37) Schmidt's OPS+ were between 142-199. That's longevity.

[clout]

CJ: I'm suggesting those balls weren't even close to the strike zone. When Lidge is on, his sliders break in the zone or on the edge. He was not sharp last night and he's lucky those last 2 batters were rookies instead of Pujols & Ludwick. Look, Lidge has been fantastic but anyone who thinks he was at the top of his game last night is clueless.

[Sophist]

That Glaus/Schmidt comparison prior to age 30 is pretty crude anyway. Glaus' numbers aren't as good as Schmidt's in any of those seasons. I think Schmidt is just the closest in a relatively scattered field.

[mvptommyd]

clout: Have to agree with you that Lidge wasn't on at all last night, but I think that was the one he was going to blow for his first of the year. He is lucky he faced 2 rookies who aren't used to hitting sliders and were swinging at anything praying to make contact.

[CJ]

clout: I don't think anyone suggested he was on top of his game. His location was a little off. The pitch to Glaus was supposed to be down, not up and in. The hits he gave up were bloopers... but I'm sure he didn't mean to hit Izturis when he had two strikes on him.

HOWEVER, against two rookie RH hitters, Lidge did exactly what he should have: Throw slider after slider to guys who have never seen anything like his sliders. They were hopeless.

Lidge is now 28 for 28 in save opportunities and hasn't lost a game either. He's had just one disasterous outing all year.

He's been the MOST lights out closer in baseball this year. Aren't you the one who believes that ultimately it's the results that matter... not how you get there. You can't defend Borowski's saves last year and then talk down Lidge's performance last night.

[clout]

Mvp: That's my point exactly. But Lidge deserves tremendous credit for staying cool under pressure and not giving in. His command wasn't as sharp as usual, but he didn't deviate from the game plan. A lot of batters, even veterans, get themselves out and that's what happened there.

[clout]

CJ: I agree with this 100%: "HOWEVER, against two rookie RH hitters, Lidge did exactly what he should have: Throw slider after slider to guys who have never seen anything like his sliders. They were hopeless."

[NEPP]

What's Borowski doing right now again?

And we were gonna give him a 3 year deal...that would have killed us more than the Eaton deal.

[CJ]

NEPP: Borowski? The Red Sox are talking about signing him. Seriously.

[Ben Keeler]

Seems like last year, the Phils always scored in the first inning with Rollins setting the tone. Rarely happens this year.

I knew his runs were down, but only 50? wow.

[CJ]

Re: Lidge

I had rationalized his performance in my mind. I was prepared not to be upset if the team lost and Lidge blew his first of the season. I said to myself, "Well, he has to blow one sometime... and I guess the Mets and Marlins already lost, so it's not too bad."

I had really done this before jumping up with a fist pump after the last K.

[Sophist]

CJ - Lidge was saved from a loss by Burrell against the Giants. I attended the game and had given up hope after Rowand hit a solo shot in extras. Chase, not surprisingly, got on base in the bottom half. Burrell fought hard against Wilson to get a full count and drilled the game-winner towards CF. One of the best Phils games I've attended.

fangraphs lets you sort a pitcher's appearances by pLI, which is generally a measure of the average leverage per plate appearance. Last night's game is now the highest. The next highest is the April 20th game against the Mets.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=563&position=P&season=

[donc]

The thing to really love about Lidge is his competitiveness. He's been scary good all year. But when he gets into trouble like last night, he throws some of the nastiest stuff around. Of course he has run into a little more trouble lately, but that is a guy you can have confidence in. Will he go the entire season without a hiccup? Probably not. But it's a great (and new) feeling to have a hammer back there.

[Sophist]

Rollins did miss a month, so some of his counting stats would be down from last year anyway.

[NEPP]

NEPP: Borowski? The Red Sox are talking about signing him. Seriously

Yeah I know but that's the point...he was put on waivers by the Indians and the Sox are looking at him as a guy who might me an okay 12th guy on their staff assuming he's healthy...and that's only becuase they just traded Craig Hansen. Imagine had we paid him closer money. We'd never have traded for Lidge, we'd be screwed right now with both Borowski and Gordon eating up huge chunks of salary to be non-factors etc etc.

[Wes Chamberlain]

Wow, this is a pathetic new low in pessimism!

Our closer comes in, has a very shakey outing, turns a 2 run game into a one run game, then loads the bases with one out. He then proceeds to strikeout the next two batters, rookies, with filthy sliders. The team pulls out a nice win picking up a game on the Marlins and Mets. And now someone has the gall to complain that the pitches that struck out the hitters and saved the game WEREN'T GOOD ENOUGH!!!!!

You are complaining that pitches that a batter swung at and missed weren't CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE STRIKEZONE!!!!!!!

Good lord this place can get sad and pathetic sometimes.

Many people consider Steve Carlton's 1972 season to be one of the greatest seasons ever by a pitcher. However, some on BeerLeaguer would like to point out that he did lose 10 games. And he even allowed opponents to score 1.97 runs every nine innings. If Carlton was such a good pitcher he would have gone 37-0 with a 0.00 era.

The new motto for BeerLeaguer:
BeerLeaguer, accept nothing but perfection!

[NEPP]

****If Carlton was such a good pitcher he would have gone 37-0 with a 0.00 era. ****

That's a good point Wes...he did have double digit losses that year. What a bum!!!

LOL.

[Wes Chamberlain]

Sophist, I thought the same thing about Rollins missing time. So I looked into his runs scored per game last year and this year

Runs per game 2007: .85
Runs per game 2008: .57

That was a bigger decrease than I expected. Jimmy has been dissapointing this year and needs to pick it up. The good news is that over his career he plays his best in August and September, so I think we can look forward to Jimmy picking it up. And any talk of moving him out of the leadoff spot, well its a waste of time, because he isn't going anywhere and shouldn't.

[NEPP]

Having Jimmy in the leadoff spot is the Phillies idea of chivalry...we're basically spotting the other team an out at the beginning of every game.

[Vonderful]

Is it possible that Jimmy just had a career year last year? This looks like the Jimmy Rollins of previous years (except last year) with the listless at-bats and the early count swings. Luckily I can't say that I see any drop-off in his defense.

[NEPP]

That's honestly the most likely explanation.

[AWH the RBP]

Wes, I like the motto, and agree with your point about Lidge.

I said so above when I respectfully disagreed with JW.

What the gripers are willfully ignoring is the fact that the Phillies now have a closer who's stuff is so filthy that he can get himself out of trouble that he gets himself into.

Saying Lidge wouldn't have gotten 'veteran' hitters out is pure conjecture and speculation. Or opinion - but definitely not a fact.

The fact that they were rookies is, in a sense, irrelevant. Suppose the rookie was 2008 Jay Bruce or Josh Hamilton in 2007?

Suppose he was ________________(fill in the blank of any stud rookie)?

My point is there was no "luck" involved.

Lidge made his pitches - nasty, filthy pitches - and took care of his business even though he was a little shaky.

[Sophist]

Rollins probably did have a career year last year. But look at his doubles since 2004 and his HR in 2006 (25.) Rollins is having a down year by his standards 2007 aside. I think the injury explains as much as the career year.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Cholly has moved Rollins around, but he sulked about it and didn't perform. Cholly is stuck. He can either make the right move (moving Rollins in the order, which he has done) and deal with Rollins antics, or leave him where he is (leadoff) and deal with the results. Either way, he is not in a very enviable position. Rollins is just not making it easy to be the Phillies manager right now.

[AWH the RBP]

Oh, and anybody that says Ryan Madson was "lucky" to get a GIDP from Ludwick is basically making the assumption that Ludwick was going to get a hit.

Please explain to me why that assumption is logically valid.

Ludwick IS a very good hitter, but last I checked pitchers still get him out 69.6% of the time, and it wasn't his first GIDP of the season.