Beerleaguer for breakfast: Hamels is the missing ace

Last night, an October star was born. His name is Cole Hamels.

After reading 200 pieces previewing this series, my final impulse was to withhold any prediction and let the Phillies and Dodgers settle it on the field. Baseball never seems to work out the way it’s supposed to. Except, of course, for last night, an unqualified template for how the Phillies would manage to win their games according to many. Pitch great and hope for a big inning. That's exactly what happened. Conventional wisdom said the Phils needed to win Cole’s Game 1 in both the DS and CS and did just that, squeezing out a pair of three-run innings to achieve victory in both games.

The ace did all the rest. In 15 innings, Hamels has allowed just two runs while fanning 17. His combined inning tally sits at 242.1 and you’d never know it. He’s also 24 and you’d never know it. Once again, a Phillies starter escaped danger in the first and settled in. Using mostly fastballs in the first, Hamels struggled with his command and got into trouble, missing on a pitch to Manny Ramirez that Manny cranked to within a few feet of the center field camera deck. It was one of only two real mistakes Hamels made, the other being a pitch that was easily elevated to the outfield for a sac fly later in the ballgame. Luckily, nobody told Manny that left-center field, the deepest and darkest part of the Citizens Bank Park, is a no-fly zone. Everyone knows the short porch in left is the preferred flight pattern for right-handed hitters.

Comments

[clout]

someone in the prior thread asked, "Does anyone know what kind of stuff Billingsley throws?"

Billingsley, one of the best young pitchers in baseball, throws smoke. His fastball usually sits around 93 mph, but he can get it up to 95. But what makes him so tough is that he also throws a plus slider and a plus curve. His strikeouts per 9 IP: 9. The way to beat him is to hope his command is off, although he's gotten better in that department in each of the past 3 years.

At age 23, I think he's the best pitcher on either team, with a greater upside than Hamels. Phillies have to hope his relative inexperience will have him pressing a bit and mess up his command. Being patient would also help.

[JYurk]

I had the privilige of attending Game One at the Bank last night.

The most surreal moments:

1) Watching the blimp hover over the park and the fact that there were no scores on the rightfield wall scoreboard. As Manny walked to the plate at the top of the first, I glanced at the blimp, the empty scoreboard and the NLCS logo on the third base line and it all kind of sunk in.

"Oh my goodness, the Phillies are in the NLCS and here I am."

2) The "Beat L.A.!" were so loud succinct that they may as well have been "E-A-G-L-E-S, EAGLES!" chants. I'm not sure if these were audible on the TV broadcast, but I have goosebumps just thinking about them.

3) Words can not describe what the stadium was like after Chase stroked his home run. I couldn't pick up the ball off the bat, but in the couple seconds of the balls trajectory, I glanced at the rightfielder running towards the wall, the pocket of the crowd just behind the wall rising in anticipatioin, and the ball finally dropped in.

Pandemonium. Rally towels everywhere.

What a ride. Let's get 'em tonight boys.

BEAT LA!

[64 survivor]

A hard core Phillies fan since '63 my 45 year perspective tells me that in the past few weeks we have seen the emergence of "the second coming" of "lefty". The smartest thing Gillick has done for us (maybe accidentally) was to get us Jamie Moyer who is serving as Hamels "Yoda", teaching him how to control "the force". Unless injury comes into play, I agree, we have found our ace!

[Lake Fred]

Great game! I loved every minute of it, starting in the 6th inning. Cole Hamels, Chase and Pat the Bat! Super!

Did anyone notice how short Ken Rosenthal is? He looked like he was standing in a hole when he was interviewing Pat Burrell after the game.

[BENTZ]

Whenever I hear the name Billingsley - I think of this quote from the 30-year old guy who thinks he's still in high school in "Friday Night Lights"

Billingsley! Party at Taylor's house NOW Billingsley! Gonna get wasted! Yeah! Billingsley! BILLINGSLEY!

[clout]

Fred: That was indeed an odd sight. Burrell is 6'4" and Rosenthal was clearly a full foot shorter than him. I'd love to see Rosenthal interview Randy Johnson. You'd only be able to see Rosey's hairline and his outstretched arm.

[G-Town Dave]

Sorry for the OT question, but does anyone here have a link to Sarge's most memorable '83 NLCS HR -- the one where he drills the ball out of the yard & jaws at the catcher a bit before circling the bases -- that they'd be willing to share? I keep trying to describe that moment to my wife (who is a relatively recent convert to baseball fandom), but I'd rather let the moving pictures speak for themselves. Thanks!

[johnnysanz3]

Ya my wife asked me how tall Burrell was in shock like he was a giant standing next to Rosenthal haha.

[J. Weitzel]

Burrell is a massive guy. I would guess he's closer to 6'5". Phils are a big team. Lidge is even 6'5".

[pblunts]

Sent this guy some emails. NY Post implying that the Phils win because of their park. Bitter Muts fans and the "journalists" who cover them. Really, get over it!

By BART HUBBUCH

PHILADELPHIA - As the MetsNew York Mets know all too well, never count the Phillies out in their bandbox.

The Phils offered further proof here last night, all but rising from the dead in the sixth inning to rally for a 3-2 win over the Dodgers in Game 1 of the NLCS.

Home runs one batter apart by Chase Utley and a red-hot Pat Burrell off L.A. starter Derek Lowe erased a two-run Phillies deficit and brought the capacity, towel-waving crowd at Citizens Bank Park back to life.

The blasts to the short porches in right and left field in the Phillies' hitter-friendly park - Mets pitcher Pedro MartinezPedro Martinez famously ridiculed it as a "bandbox" in July - made a winner of starter Cole Hamels despite a rough outing. It also gave Philadelphia a decided edge in the best-of-7 series, considering 13 of the past 16 winners of the NLCS opener have gone on to reach the World Series.

"In the playoffs, the first game definitely becomes important," Phillies manager Charlie Manuel said. "I mean, [winning Game 1 last night], that's huge."

The Phillies looked dead in the water for five innings with Lowe cruising in NLDS form, retiring 15 of the first 17 batters he faced and barely breaking a sweat in the process. But Lowe started to wobble with two outs in the fifth, giving up consecutive singles to light-hitting catcher Carlos Ruiz and Hamels himself before escaping on a Jimmy Rollins flyout.

There would be no escape for Lowe one inning later. He started leaving his sinker and slider up in the zone and the Phillies immediately pounced. After Shane Victorino reached to open the sixth on a wild throw to first by shortstop Rafael Furcal, the floodgates opened. The next hitter, Utley, crushed the first pitch he saw - an 89 mph fastball - high into the seats in right to tie the game and revitalize a crowd subdued by Lowe's early mastery.

The roar intensified one out later when Burrell got out in front of a 3-1 fastball and sent it screaming into the stands in left, suddenly and shockingly putting the Phillies in front.

"Lowe was feeling fine [in the sixth], but sometimes you get some misguided pitches and they stay up instead of where they're supposed to be," L.A. manager Joe Torre said.

Burrell's shot was so no-doubt-about-it that Manny Ramirez never moved while watching it sail into the seats. It was Burrell's third homer in his past two postseason games, and he is 5-for-7 in that span.

"Pat is seeing the ball better," Manuel said of his left fielder, who struggled early in the NLDS against the Brewers. "Right now, he's staying back behind the ball and driving it."

The Dodgers jumped out early on Hamels, taking a 1-0 lead just three batters into the game on back-to-back doubles from Andre Ethier and Ramirez with one out. Ramirez's shot to the very deepest spot in the park would have been out just about anywhere else, but the stadium's odd configuration kept it in play. Ramirez's 410-foot blast caromed off the last panel atop the center-field fence, just inches from the home-run stripe.

Those few inches cost the Dodgers a run when Matt Kemp left Ramirez at third and would come back to haunt them five innings later when the Phillies' homer barrage began.

"The way the team's been playing, I've had the confidence in them knowing that even if I do put them down early, we'll come back," Hamels said. "That's just because of the fight that we have."

In this park, that's something the Mets know only too well.

bhubbuch@nypost.com

[J. Weitzel]

Plus cleats. I didn't catch Rosenthal's footwear, but I'm guessing he's a Hush Puppy guy.

[CY]

Lets not invite the bandbox talk on this thread.

We have enought to worry about with Billingsly on the bump tonight. The kid is nasty. Clout is right, we need to be patient if we are going to get to him. Myers has another tough matchup, lets see how he responds.

[G-Town Dave]

I love how bitter out-of-town journalists & fans speak of CBP as if the opposing team doesn't receive the exact same number of ABs in which to "benefit" from the park's "bandbox" dimensions.

[zp]

these writers who keep bringing up "bandbox this and bandbox that" are just lazy, uninspired writers. it's really sad that people try to invalidate a win any way they can. if utley's ball was hit 380 feet and burrell's 330+, it would have been out at the Vet too, and most people considered that place a cavern. guess they will just have to launch them into the second deck next time.

[J. Weitzel]

"Pedro Martinez famously ridiculed it as a 'bandbox.'"

Famous to whom? Metsblog?

[Batter's Eye]

That article is silly. Starts by saying the homers were to the "short porches" in left and right fields and follows it up by saying that Utley's ball was "crushed" and Burrell's was a "screamer" that was so "no doubt about it" that Manny didn't move.

Well, which is it?

[J. Weitzel]

Scale of 1-to-10, how would people rate the 8th and 9th innings of Madson and Lidge?

[Ira]

Was at the game. After the first it was pretty quiet till the 5th. The more Lowe struggled the louder we got. Plus Hamels was in the zone the late innings. I def could have saw him go one more inning if we needed. Every playoff game I have been at they have won, so I suggest creating a pool to pay for me to go to LA.

[G-Town Dave]

Madson: 8.5

Lidge: 9

The 8th had me a lot more nervous than the 9th, but it's hard to complain about the outing of either guy. I always like to leave a bit of room for improvement, though. ;-)

[BENTZ]

Forget the New York writer's comments about the park. What game was he watching that indicated that Cole Hamels had a "rough outing?" OK, so he didn't throw 8 shut-out innings like he did against Milwaukee. In what world is 7 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 2 BB and 8 K a rough outing?

This line, on July 26 vs. the Braves, is a rough outing: 3.2 IP, 6 H, 9 R, 4 ER, 3 BB, 2 K

[Dubs]

Yeah, I was actually a little disappointed with the crowd through the first 5 innings. It picked up obviously, but let's not just cheer when great things are happening.

Side note: Saw a few beer leaguer shirts floating around walking into the stadium.

[GoPhilsGo]

Has there been as much written about Yankee Stadium's short left field porch? Does that discount the homers hit there by the few good lefties they had over the years?
It seems difficult for people to give the Phils the credit they deserve.

[control13]

Lidge & Madson:
I'd give them both an 8/9.

Madson should have had a 123 inning. That one ball was basically right at Feliz and handcuffed him. Isn't he supposed to there for his glove?

The great thing about Lidge's 9th was he looked like he had his "A" slider and control, not erratic at all. Only glitch was the first two balls were hit pretty hard, the first out vic was almost at the wall in center.

[Jack]

I love how its only a "bandbox" for our hitters. You know, it is possible to throw a good game there and not give up home runs. Cole Hamels, in fact, did it last night. And last week. Also, Brett Myers did it last week as well. Isn't that crazy?

[J. Weitzel]

It looked like Feliz's ball hit the cutout.

[Greg S.]

This is the last bandbox comment. Check out Hittracker:

http://www.hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=92008_10&type=ballpark

Once it is updated with Utley's and Burrell homers, we'll be able to see exactly how many parks it would have been a homer in (if that is the kind of thing that floats your boat). Until then, let's move on. Nothing to see here.

Victorino's grand slam would have been 'outta here' in 30 parks. (In other words - all of them)

[GoPhilsGo]

What? Games at CBP without homers? Impossible!

[Sct]

Madson 8.5 -- looked like he was in solid command.
Lidge 7.5 -- I know he's a flyball pitcher, but man, those were pretty deep.

Ethier and Manny both complained that the homeruns were outs in LA -- which I'm not convinced of, by the way. I think they were doubles off the wall. Seemed kinda whiny.

Being dismissed by the media and the Dodgers is working in the Phils' favor. They can keep right on "stealing" wins from the golden children ... right into the World Series.

[bay_area_phan]

Bentz: Yeah, I had the identical thought when I saw the "rough outing" comment. Rough outing? Is this writer on crack? I'm more inclined to e-mail him about that comment than about the bandbox comment.

[Jack]

Madson was much better than Lidge. Lidge's slider was working pretty well, but he let a couple deep fly balls up. That's dangerous.

I was at the game so I haven't seen the game thread, but were people on here wondering why Romero wasn't brought in to face Loney with 2 outs in the 8th? We were amazed and were staring into the dugout trying to figure out what Charlie was thinking. That, to me, was the scariest moment of the game, Loney against Madson with a runner on- other than every Manny at-bat of course.

As a side note, Manny's first inning double was probably the hardest I've ever heard a ball hit live. He is so locked in right now it's really not fair.

[diggitydave]

Russell Martin's hit last night was smoked, hit the cutout, and skidded right past Pedro. Can't fault him for that one.

And enough of the bandbox talk. Just enjoy the fact that there's still baseball being played at our "bandbox," while Shea Stadium is undergoing its funeral as we speak.

[DougS]

Dudes, CBP is not THAT much smaller than others:

http://www.sportfanatics.net/Fantasy/Baseball/2008/Major_League_Baseball_Stadium_Dimensions.htm

[GM-Carson]

I give them both at 10 because each of them should have had 1-2-3 innings.

With every mounting Phils postseason win I become happier and happier knowing that the Phils are rubbing it in the face of all their haters.

[Bubba]

Getting out of the first inning with only 1 run was the biggest part of the win by Cole.
It looked like things were going into a down spiral really quick for a moment there.
He really showed some heart and pitched great after the rough start.

The mets jerks posting bandbox comments should check out their own new parks dimensions - not a lot different from CBP or a lot of other newer stadium.

[Jerry]

Jack:
I was there, too. After our initial panic/doubting Cholly, we figured that he liked Madson vs. Loney more than Romero vs. Nomar. But we were all pretty surprised.

[Sct]

How many of you ditched LA homers McCarver and Buck and listened to our boys on the radio? It doesn't take long to get used to the 1-second delay. Makes you feel psychic.

On Fox, following both homers: about eight seconds of solemn silence. You would think Derek Lowe was Joe Buck's mom.

[bay_area_phan]

With the way Madson has pitched lately, the 8th inning, as far as I'm concerned, is his, regardless whether the hitter is right-handed, left-handed, or ambidextrous. The exception would be if there are men on base and a particularly dangerous left-hander is at the plate like, say, David Ortiz. If that happens, then perhaps you go to Romero. But with no one on, you leave him in. James Loney is not David Ortiz.

[MPN]

Madson of late certainly is pitching more like the 2004 Madson. If this continues then perhaps we have our setup guy for next year.

[joe l]

DougS - don't confuse sports writers with inconvenient things like "facts".

[GM-Carson]

The silence in the 9th inning killed me while Lidge was setting them down. McCarver was the only one doing any talking, Buck was completely silent the entire inning. Bias? Probably. Total a-hole? Definitely!

[GoPhilsGo]

Another brilliant headline:
"Utley-Burrell combo shocks Dodgers with double whammy"
Unless you had never seen the Phillies, why would Utley and Burrell getting big hits be shocking?

[Bubba]

Speaking of Dodgers and short HRs - remember when they played at the Colosseum with the net for a LF fence. Wally Moon & the moonshots.
Long ago and far away.

[DPatrone]

Last time I checked, both teams play in the same ballpark at the same time, and under the same conditions. We scored 3. They scored 2. And I thought they're 2nd run was cheap. Lowe pitched great for 5 innngs. Hamels pitched a little better. We won the game. That's all.

BTW does anyone remember the pop-up GS Manny hit against the Phils when he was with Boston? You didn't hear the Phils complain about that did you. No! In '78, LA beat Lefty to win the series in a driving rain storm. That's how it goes.

Everyone except Phils phans is pissed because the Phils won. Like we don't count. Like the Brewers were easy. You know what phans? We coulda beat the Cubs too. Although we as phans (myself included) do not agree with the way the FO sometimes handles things, the team has got to get the credit it deserves. For all of the naysayers out there: Did you ever stop to think that this team just might be good enough to go the the World Series? No? Well, think about it. It just might happen.

[Cipper]

the hit when madson was in, was just a bad bounce, it looked to me like the ball hit the cut out of the grass and changed trajectory on feliz... cant bash his glove, its been great almost all season.

and the bandbox complaint is getting old. If they can hit it out in their 'big ball park' then they can hit it out in out 'small ball park'... tired of the bitching by other city's journalists....

[joe l]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

The park is neutral. More HRs, less extra base hits.

[Cipper]

anyone remember the first game of Boston-Philly when Hamels pitched? I remember Joe Morgan (pretty sure it was him) saying "I believe we are watching a quite possible World Series match up right now"... I can feel it..

[Morty]

Forgive me if this has been raised earlier, but what has happened to change Madson?

What has happened to the "deer in the headlights" look we used to see from him in pressure situations?

[Morty]

And I've have been fine with Feliz all season, but if he can't make the play on that ball in the 8th last night, I can't defend him anymore. Geez!

[MG]

The Phils are winning with real honest-to-goodness pitching. They have a legit ace for the first time since Schilling, their best bullpen in as long as I can remember (I haven't heard anything mention this but this bullpen is clearly superior to the '93 team which was a mess at times in the playoffs that year), and a deep enough rotation they can put a legit starter out there for every game even if they go with Blanton in Game 4.

Note to new Phils GM: Pitching and defense. Hey CBP is a bit HR-friendly but if anything has shown us this year it is that the "bandbox" persona of CBP is at least been due in part to the average to below-average staffs the Phils have thrown out there including last year's cast of journeyman, over-the-hill stiffs, and marginal fringe guys.

[mike cunningham]

@sct -- You would think Derek Lowe was Joe Buck's mom.

awesome.

A couple of notes i forgot about last night, I too was surprised they didn't go to Romero a few others around me did as well. I whined a bit about it... then after Madson got the final out, i apologized to those around me and Cholly.

Before Ruiz came out to bat in the bottom of 7, Dan Baker "announced" greg dobbs. I assumed Dobbs was going in for Hamels, then I looked and saw Ruiz, and thought it was odd. Dobbs stayed in the deck until Ruiz got on, when Taguchi was brought out. That move received a ton of second guessing over here for sure.

Hamels base hit was on a 0-2 count. OH TWO.

Before the game, Larry Bowa got a real good cheer from the crowd. Don't remember what Duncan got. But he did high five the Phanatic from the coaches box as the mascot headed to his perch.

During intros Huge cheers for Cholly and JROLL. HUGE. MVP chants for Ryno. Big cheers for Vic and Burrell and Utz. Brett Myers, Brad Lidge, and Jamie moyer all big cheers.

Great moment you won't see on TV. You could read the pulse of the crowd by the little things. This moment was classic. Hamels and Ruiz walk out of the bullpen... the outfield section gets loud... as they walk across the field the cheers reverberated like a wave clockwise around the stadium until the ENTIRE stadium is cheering FOR not the Phillies. JUST COLE HAMELS willing him to pitch well. Just a very cool moment.

Personal moment: It was my Dad's 60th birthday last night. We've shared many great phillies moments and more than our share of disappointments. I called him before the game from my seats to wish him a happy birthday as he was racing back to his hotel in Seattle, he's away on business. I wished he was there, because he would have REALLY enjoyed last night.

Game starts sooner, and this day is moving slower than yesterday.

[MG]

Hopefully Madson's performance this year will finally end the ridiculous "deer-in-the headlights" and "we need to trade this bum" talk. I am willing to bet that this talk has largely been generated by just a few things during Madson's tenure:

1. His tendency to not pitch well the first 2-3 weeks of the season. It results in him blowing a few games (he did it both this year and last year) and this sticks with fans.

2. When Madson has been in the pen during his tenure as a Phil, he has been utilized at a grueling pace at times and simply has worn out in a few seasons.

3. The season he was cast as a starter (2006) was tough on him and the Phils. Madson was clearly miscast as a starter and never found his groove that year when he ultimately returned to the pen.

[Lake Fred]

Jason, great description of Ken Rosenthal. From now on he is "Hush Puppy Guy".

Just finished reading the game thread. Beerleaguer is the best, the next best thing to being there. This is like an internet bar room, where we all get together and discuss the pros and cons of our beloved Phillies. Occasionally, a wayward drunken tourist Muts fan walks in, spouts off a couple of wisecracks, gets decked, dragged outside, and tossed into a back alley dumpster.

[G-Town Dave]

Sct: I've been muting the TV & listening to the Phils radio broadcast from the beginning. At first the delay bothered me, but now I kinda dig it. It gives me time to turn up the radio sound when something good happens -- such as last night, when both of Harry's HR calls were instant classics. Honestly, I think I'd watch w/ no sound whatsoever if Buck/McCarver was the only audio option. All Fox needs to do is add Joe "My daughter goes to Stanford" Morgan to the team & they'd have a broadcasting triumvirate of pure, unadulterated awful. :-S

[Grumpy Gramps]

Forget all the ballpark crap, the fact of the matter is, according to our favorite LA Times journalist, we should just be nice little boys and go silently into that dark night. Excerpt from his colume today:

With everyone wanting a Dodgers-Red Sox matchup, it's time for the Phillies to do their part.

Who wants just another World Series other than boring baseball purists, knowing now the potential high jinks that Manny, J.D., Nomar, Joe and Lowe might deliver in prime time?

It's asking for a lot, of course, the two teams who don't have the home-field advantage having to win, but then it's kind of the responsibility of the Phillies and Rays to step aside in the best interests of entertaining baseball. -- T.J. Simers
October 10, 2008

Ya gotta love it.

[pblunts]

I'd give them both a 9, although I admit I couldn't believe Charlie didn't bring Romero in to face Either. I find it a bit odd and even a little unsettling-despite the fact that we've lost one playoff game so far-that he's managing different now than the regular season. There are times when you have to manage differntly during the post season, but not starting Dobbs more for example is interesting.

[Lake Fred]

Ira, the Phils didn't win playoff games because you were in attendence. They won because my daughter at LSU was wearing her Phillies logo shorts. She was wearing them during all three wins against the Brewers, but wearing different clothing during the loss to the Brewers. Last night, when the Phils were behind, 2-0, she realized that she was wearing the wrong clothes. She changed into her Phillies logo shorts and the Phillies came back to win. ...and now you know the rest of the story!

[RSB]

Buck's play-by-play does leave something to be desired. It's true that stating the obvious on TV when it's right there for all to see - 'swing and a miss' - seems unnecessary, but all Buck could offer when the final strike was recorded was a flat, delayed "...Gets away." after Ruiz didn't handle the ball cleanly. Imagine listening to an audio compilation of highlights and having to hear that. Awful.

That said, please, folks: having to hear these endless, paranoid, martyred claims of "bias" is unbearable. Maybe they're biased in the New York Post (wow, really?), but there's no plausible explanation as to why Buck and McCarver would be biased in favor of one team or the other. You're hearing what you want to hear.

[gino]

Madson's been the key to getting where they are now. If they can continue to ride it out with the Madson-Lidge combo I'd be happy. But they'll need to get to the 8th. I doubt Jaime will get em there. One worry I have is the other guys, like Ramirez, aren't getting any work, and this could spell disaster when they're called in to rescue an inning.

Ramirez, correct me if I'm wrong, has thrown one pitch this postseason. That could get ugly. Maybe Chollie will use Madson for two innings, like he did in game 4 of the Milwaukee series, rather than risk bringing in a rusty reliever.

[Lake Fred]

Simers wants the Rays and Phillies to step aside??? Good God!

[Greg S.]

Regarding Simers, we are playing into his hands. Let's see, he is a journalist, who writes for newspaper from the left coast, but of course they have a website. Journalists probably get recognition from their bosses for how many 'hits' their articles get. So stop hitting it. Don't visit the La Times website, just keep visiting Beerleaguer.

[Lake Fred]

RSB, you are so right about the Fox broadcasters being silent. For a couple of minutes, I had something to do in another room, but I could clearly hear the TV sound. These guys were so bad, I had no idea what was happening while I was gone. Good thing I was burning my own personal HOF Phillies DVD of the game. I can go back and see what I missed.

[GM-Carson]

John Gonzalez had a good rebuttal in his piece today against Simers' idiocy.

[Morty]

MG:

I have to disagree with you on Madson. He has been a fine middle relief pitcher, and a real asset to the Phils, but he has never been the type of guy who could handle the set-up role, even though management has tried him there several times. And you could see it on his face.

How many times have we seen bad fielding, like Feliz's miscue last night, unravel an inning for Madson? Suddenly in the last couple weeks of the season, and now the playoffs, he is coming up large in the 8th inning pressure role. I am quite happy with the change, but it is a change.

[Morty]

Perhaps the fact that Madson's fastball picked up 2-3 mph in the middle of the season has given him greater confidence and composure?

[RSB]

Morty: i think the point is that Madson *is* handling that role now - and indeed, you can see it on his face. What he's been in the past isn't the issue. He's stepped up and nailed down the set-up role just when the Phillies needed him most.

[duder-WA]

I don't know if someone has mentioned this already, but in the 6th inning: Utley looked comfortable at the plate for the first time in awhile. He looked relaxed and was not doing all those fidgety things he's been doing recently... Is Utley's power stroke back?

[clout]

Jason: On the replay it showed that the ball hit Feliz's leg, not the cutout.

[Knight]

So, what are the odds we see Dobbs start tonight? I was looking up Billingsley's splits, and opposing RHB hit .218/.294/.351 against him, while LHB hit .287/.381/.396.

I'm wondering what Charlie is gonna do, since Dobbs is 0 for 3 against Billingsley with a strikeout, and Feliz is 4 for 12 with a home run and a double. Dunno. One never can predict the gut I suppose.

[joe l]

Red Sox fans up here already going on about how no one cares if Philly or Tampa Bay make it to the Series. Newsflash to New England, the world does not end at Yankee Stadium. Philly is just as large if not larger media market and won't suffer from the rest of the country turning off yet another Red Sox playoff game. /steps down from soapbox.

[bay_area_phan]

Someone needs to send an e-mail to every sportswriter in America and let them know that the fences at CB Park were moved back a few years ago & it ain't a bandbox anymore. And perhaps the e-mail could include a few statistics like the fact that the Phillies hit 109 homeruns at home and 105 on the road. Or that every Phillies starter except Moyer miraculously has better home numbers than away numbers. Or that Ryan Howard's career home-away homer splits are nearly identical. Or the fact that Burrell hit 21 homers on the road this year and only 12 at home.

The Phillies had a 3.7 increase in homeruns when they played at home this year. For the Dodgers, the increase at home was 7.1%. For the Mets -- who are the biggest whiners about the "bandbox" effect" -- the increase was a staggering 19%. If anyone's hitters are getting a park advantage here, it is the Mets, not the Phillies.

I also loved Loney's comment that, at Dodger Stadium, Utley's ball would have landed in his glove. The ball must have landed a good 20 rows behind the fence. It would have been a homerun in any park. And, at absolute worst, it would have bounced off the fence for an RBI double, and Utley would have come around to score on Burrell's homer.

[mike cunningham]

@duder -- i'm not sure, but i noticed some fidgety things in the first at bat. so who knows.

But if you do look at that http://www.strongerskin.com/strongerskin/>strongerskin that Chase Utley and Michael Strahan are doing commercials for. Utley has an interview where they ask about his power stroke. He explains that the power doesn't come from biceps, but lower body strength.

If his hip is hurt, that is clear sign why his power drop off and his 1st and 2nd half splits aren't that drastic except for the power numbers.

Also, from some of LA writers and players and certain Mets trolls, Utley's homer wasn't really a homer. So I would say his power stroke is not back.

[rmp]

Philadelphia 6, Boston 32:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

[Morty]

RSB:

Of course. I'm just curious as to peoples' opinions of why that happened.

I could not be happier that he has stepped up to the, metaphorical, plate since a reliable set up guy has been the one missing piece of the Phils' bullpen.

[kdon]

On Madson:

The only that has changed is that he isn't being yanked around anymore. The stuff is as great as it's always been.

He wasn't the greatest starter in the world, but he got screwed when he was pulled from the rotation in 2006 instead of Floyd, who had inferior numbers in the minors, in Spring Training, and in the Majors.

Then, in 2007 he was named the 8th inning pitcher in spring training, and Manuel backed out after *two* games when he gave up bombs to the Braves ...neither of which were even hold situations.

The guy has been saving Manuel's ass for years as versatile and effective reliever. Madson would pitch great for weeks on end to get himself in a big spot, and then Manuel would dump him after one failure, while guys like Mesa, Alfonseca, and Gordon were trotted out there.

If you show no confidence in a pitcher for three years, it's no surprise that he was nervous. He should have been the set-up man on this team for 2 1/2 years now.

[reading phan]

Did anyone else hear that Charlie Manuel's mom died today? He might not be at the game.

[curt]

Interesting thread (not):

1. Buck/McCarver biased;

2. CBP not a bandbox

Repeat ad nauseum.

[BeerMan89]

Does anyone know when the lineups will be posted? I'm leaving work at 2 to head down to the stadium. Any chance they'll be posted before then? Dobbs has to get the start today, right?

[MasterlockJr.]

Good points BAP. Burrell's HR was a rocket, and probably out of most parks. Thought Chase's carried a lot, so who knows on that one, but again, its just another excuse to try and discredit the Phils. All players have to pitch and hit in the same environment, and Lowe made the mistakes Cole didnt.

I am continuing to believe in Madson's stuff, and he looks great right now. Amazing changeup and HEAT. I though his inning was better than Lidge's, who had 2 balls hit hard and deep, but somehow, miraculously, that stayed in the "bandbox." Huh.

I have said all along, they hit, they win. Tonight is no different, take some pitches! I thought a big change was when Ruiz and Cole had b-2b hits, then Jroll came up and took at 2-3 pitches, had a fould ball, then flew out deep. We had runners on, and Jroll was patient and saw some pitches and had a decent AB. This really started something IMO. Would like to see some more plate discipline tonight against Bills.

[rmp]

Philadelphia 7, Boston 11 by radio market:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/List-of-United-States-radio-markets

Philadelphia 4, Boston 7 by tv market:

http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/markettrack/us_hh_by_dma.asp

[MG]

Morty - I agree that Madson is far from a "lights out" setup-guy but those guys really don't exist in MLB. Even the best set-up guys tend to have some wide variations in their performances from season to season.

Madson does have a tendency at times to get unraveled but this notion that he simply can't pitch the 8th inning because of "nerves" or "mental fragility" is absurd. The numbers don't support that conclusion (look at Madson's numbers in High Leverage situations over the past few years)) and more fundmentally -

Is there really that big of a difference mentally between pitching the 7th inning in a 1-run game vs. the 8th inning?

I say no and I would be willing to bet the numbers would support that conclusion.

[kdon]

" I though his inning was better than Lidge's, who had 2 balls hit hard and deep, but somehow, miraculously, that stayed in the "bandbox."

Absolutely Masterlock.

Not to mention the fact that Madson pitched to the heart of the order while Lidge faced Kemp/Blake/Dewitt.

I'm shocked people could rate Lidge's performance over Madson - did they see the game?

Madson - 9
Lidge - 7.5

[Morty]

kdon:

Madson's fastball has increased at least 2-3 mph during the course of this season. And therefore there is probably a greater spread between his fastball and his change. I'm not the only one to notice that, right?

I'm not saying there is necessarily a cause and effect there, but Madson has taken a hold of this opportunity, when he has not in the past.

[MG]

Boston is just in more "markets" simply for the fact that there aren't any professional baseball teams in Rhode Island, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Connecticut.

[Morty]

Kdon:

I agree completely that Madson was far more impressive than Lidge last night.

[Morty]

Which is why I am talking so much about him today. Not to mention the 8th inning in game 2 of the Brewers series.

[MG]

One last comment - I do think there is a difference between a "closer's mentality" and pitching in the 7th/8th in a close game even if the odds suggest that a team wins more about 90% of the time they into the 9th inning with a lead.

[kdon]

"Madson's fastball has increased at least 2-3 mph during the course of this season. "

I won't doubt your observation, Morty, but that seems unlikely at 27. I hadn't noticed that.

And the fact that his WHIP this year is line with his history in the pen makes me believe his stuff isn't any different in 2008 then it was in 2004.

There's also no question that Madson came up small in some big spots, but the problem was that he would pitch 20 great games to work himself into a good spot, and then one bad game would send him back to the 6th and 7th.

If you look at any young players trying to break into a new role, you have to give them multiple opportunities to build confidence.

[kdon]

"I do think there is a difference between a "closer's mentality" and pitching in the 7th/8th in a close game"

Am I the only one who doesn't think Lidge has a "closer's mentality," that he just has sick, sick stuff? This, to me, is more important than the mentality.

I think the "mentality" aspect helps more as a fan - because you like to see some fat dude or some involved facial hair out there - but it doesn't get batters out.

[Bob]

Madson: 8.5

Lidge: 8 Those fly balls which were keeping Vic busy were deep, well hit balls. If they were pulled or hit a little bit later, they could have been real trouble and the game could have had an entirely different outcome. Those batters are surely saying in their clubhouse: "Wait until you get a decent pitch to hit, stay off that slider that dives into the dirt, and he can be had. He's tough but not unhittable." Nevertheless, he got the job done.

[Morty]

kdon: I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your sentiment, but there is no way to get past the fact that given this opportunity for at least the 4th or 5th time, Madson is finally living up to it.

It's great news for us Phillies fans today, and perhaps even better going forward. What if Madson and Lidge combine over the next 3 years to form a dominant back of the bullpen?

p.s. correct me if I am wrong, but I never recall Madson getting his fastball up to 95-96 mph. If memory serves, he was always in the 91-93 range.

[McCheese]

Hey All
Stumbled across BL recently - love it; best and most informative comments, without the unecessary vitriol and lowest amount of annoying trolls of any Phils blog I have been reading.
Been a die hard Phils fan since Dave Cash and Michael Jack Schmidt were my heroes as a 7-year old!

I am overseas right now, does anyone know a site where I can get the home town guys on the radio? I can't take another game of Buck's monotone and McCarver's ramblings, 81 mph cut fastballs and all. I need some Harry the K!

[McCheese]

ESPN is reporting that Chollie's Mum just died today...any local news?

[MasterlockJr.]

Did you guys see this? I found it out at Deadspin...

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/30735899.html

Funny stuff right there...

[thephaithful]

This day is taking foreeeevvver!! And i know some unsports liking dyke is going to schedule a conf. call at like 4:25pm today and I'm going to have worry about making a good excuse on Monday when i miss it.

[GM-Carson]

Lineup:
1. Rollins
2. Vic
3. Utley
4. Howard
5. Burrell
6. Werth
7. Dobbs
8. Ruiz
9. Myers

[Tony D]

Oct. 10 -- SAD NEWS | 1:05 PM

BY SCOTT LAUBER

Just arrived at the Bank, and word is beginning to filter through the press box that Charlie Manuel's mother, June Manuel, has passed away in Buena Vista, Va. She was 87 years old. Charlie was scheduled to be in the interview room at 1:15, but that has been canceled. Right now, as I look down at the field, Charlie is standing alone at the batting cage. The Phillies are stretching. They will take batting practice in a bit. No word yet on whether Manuel will manage today.

We'll have more as it becomes available.

[kdon]

I agree with you Morty: from a descriptive standpoint, there is no question that Madson failed in earlier opportunites.

I just don't think anything has changed, except for the fact that Gordon went down and Durbin and Romero returned to earth. Madson was finally given some room to work in the role.

For example, he had been getting scattered hold opportunities all season until mid August, when he picked up a win, a save, and two holds between Aug 10-19.

On August 21, he got rocked in that game against the Nats, giving up 4 hits and 2 runs in 1/3 of an inning, and a week later gave up 3 to the Cubs without recording an out.

At other points in his career he would have been knocked back to long relief duty, but because the rest of the pen was struggling, Cholly kept him out there.

He responded by getting 7 of his 17 holds in September.

[GM-Carson]

Dude, that's just not cool. I feel for Charlie. Hell, I'm about to cry thinking of him standing alone if the batting cage.

[CJ]

Quick note on Hong-Chih Kuo...

He will apparently NOT be available for today's game. Because of his arm troubles and limited work recently, the Dodgers have stated he would NOT be available to pitch on back-to-back days in this series.

That means the only true lefty reliever in the bullpen is Joe Beimel... unless they choose to use Clayton Kershaw. Of course, Kershaw has been the odds on favorite to pitch Game 4 unless they use Lowe on short rest.

[Knight]

Well, I like that Dobbs gets to play, but come on Charlie, you're killing me not separating the lefties with Vic in that lineup.