Beerleaguer 2008 in review: The year in bitching

Pedro Feliz earning starts against right-handed pitching tops the list of things we complained about in 2008.

Poor Pedro. Despite his excellent glove, a winning record in games started and a collection of clutch hits, Beerleaguer expressed little love for the strong, silent type. If 2008 didn’t end in the club’s second world title in franchise history, it would go down as the season we bitched, bitched and bitched some more about Pedro and plenty of other stuff. We bitched when they promoted T.J. Bohn and refused to start Greg Golson’s clock. We bitched when Kyle Kendrick won games because the offense scored 20 runs. We bitched about their “all-or-nothing offense.” We bitched at the poster known as EastFallowField when he reminded us, after every loss, that the Phils were ahead of the pace set by the 2007, 1983 and 1980 squads. We bitched in July when they settled for Joe Blanton. We bitched about So Taguchi's general existence. We bitched when Cole Hamels wasn’t bumped up to pitch against Johan Santana in August. We bitched when the Dodgers “swung the momentum in their direction” when they threw at Shane Victorino’s pineapple. We bitched when they won their first World Series game in 15 years, arguing that if they played as poorly as they played in Game 1, the Rays were a lock to win because their offense couldn't be stopped. Then we bitched once more when Bud Selig called Game 5, the death knell that would surely lead to the Phillies' demise.

Comments

[MG]

Welcome to the mind of the Philadelphia sports fan.

That said, it was an up- and- down season which ended on an incredible note because the Phils caught fire/played incredibly well the last 3 weeks of the season and the postseason. Fans always want a '93 type season and those wire-to-wire are just incredibly rare in baseball (especially for the Phils).

[MG]

Nice post but there was generally good back-and-forth on here including the 2008 lightning-rod Pedro Feliz.

General consensus seemed to be that most posters were giving the team until after that 4-game series against the Brewers in Sept before truly passing judgment on the season.

It just so happened that was the series where the Phils began to really catch fire and never really cooled off all the way through the World Series.

[Kevin]

Well, I hate to tell you....we will all resume our bitching again come April. Perhaps even March if the WBC deals the Fightins' participants any bad hands.

[EastFallowfield]

"We will all resume our bitching again come April."

Have you visited here lately?

[GM-Carson]

Kevin- you say "resume our bitching" as if it ever stopped. Weitzel is right, there's an awful lot of bitching around the phlogsphere, it's not just here at BeerLeaguer. I've been guilty of it, because I go to extremes. I think I changed after Campaign Cheer and I plan on having a much better outlook from here on out, but the truth is- sometimes you just need to bitch.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

I don't mind the bitching. I hate when it turns into quitting before the team is done. Some of the bitchers started to sound like quitters around Sept. 10 or so.
That said, if you really need a reason to bitch, go watch a replay of Sunday's Eagles game, or any number of previous ones.

[JV]

JW-
I think that you could put together a DVD that's the audio/video version of some of the best of the bitching...
- each player could read a couple of the best /worst posts about themselves...
- the video portion would be showing proof about was was written...
- Harry Kalas would finish up with "SEASON=OVER".

It needs a title - not enough coffee yet to come up with something BL-worthy.

[NEPP]

Wait a minute?!? We won a world series???

Where the hell was I?

[J. Weitzel]

My favorite on this list is not starting the clock on Greg Golson. For those of you not on in range of WIP, this was a major talking point of Howard Eskin for about a week.

[NEPP]

LOL...Because Golson showed "so much" potential in his brief Sept callup.

[NEPP]

Make that so much "potential"...not "so much" potential.

Its early and Golson will never learn to hit a breaking ball.

[Bob]

I firmly believe that if you are a Philly sports fan it is your birthright to bitch, complain, and to view every event in its worst possible perspective and permutation. In fact, if you are a Philly fan and do not partake in this noble practice from time to time, I would venture to say that you have been a fan for less than a year.

[Sophist]

And I would do it all again too.

I can't wait to fly from Chicago March to Clearwater March and bitch about the Spring Training weather.

[Sophist]

And I would do it all again too.

I can't wait to fly from Chicago March to Clearwater March and bitch about the Spring Training weather.

[Deutsche Phan]

Bitching highlight for me was the failure to replace Aaron Rowand's production...

I also look back fondly on the annual practice of trying to allocate wins amongst pitchers. This happens more on sports talk than on here, but it kills me when listeners line up the starting rotation, and project how many wins each starter will have, using this as an argument as to why the Phils will not win 90 games.

[mikes77phillies]

The bitching and negativity is the nature of sports blogs and talk radio. The vocal minority rules this blog. Same as the 30 guys that Buddy Ryan complained about that rule WIP.

The loudest voices have the stongest personalities in blogsphere and on radio. The sheep just follow the leaders. Being positive isnt entertaining. Lucky for beerleaguer you have a number of faithful loudmouths.

[Kegel_C]

Didnt read the thread from the weekend...anybody have any comments/observations on "The Perfect Season"?

I got mine in the mail yesterday and watched it last night...makes me want to rummage my parents house to find those old VHS tapes from the late 80s/early 90s...finding a VCR might be a little harder though!

One thing I noticed and somewhat forgot about...Jenkins did quite a bit for the Phils early on.

Oh yeah, did anybody see cribs over the weekend? J Roll had his house on there...not sure if that was a re-run.

[Kutztown Fan]

My father always says, "A bitching soldier is a happy soldier." So I guess everyone on Beerleaguer is happy.

I think bitching is in the SE PA mentality; thus the old joke: How many PA Dutch women does it take to screw in a lightbulb? None. They'd rather sit in the dark and bitch about it.

[Mike]

I think most of the bitchign and any negative vibes during the season stems from the fact that the Phils seemed to underachieve for a good part of the season. They should have entered September with a comfortable 10 game lead on the Mets instead of having to fight their way in.

I just got the feeling all year that they were just, almost bored, until things got tight at the end. Then they kicked it into another gear and took the division and then all the way to the World Series in fairly easy fashion. I mean 11-3 in the postseason, with jus one loss per round, is a pretty easy run.

[mvptommyd]

My favorite "bitching moment" was .01 seconds after we sign Ibanez and all of a sudden we are going from 1st to 3rd in our division. There is alot of "bitching" on this site and 75% of the time has no logic behind it, only stats numbers to fall back on.

I think people would rather be negative so you can not be disappointed in the end. You complain when Jimmy doesn't hustle but please don't complain when the season hasn't even started yet.

Just an update of how well our division is doing in key signings:

Phils:

Signed Ibanez, Park, Re-signed Moyer

Braves:

None, oh wait David Ross, Season=Over

Mets

Putz, Rodriduez

Nats and Marlins

None

By the way even if the Nats sign Texeira, they are still going nowhere, mark it down. I said it December 23rd.

[CY]

Mvp - bold prediction that the nats will go nowhere with Tex.

What's next? Going to predict the temp will be under 70 in Philly today?

[BobbyD]

The only thing that would make me bitch about the Phillies in '09 is a loss to the Mets. I don't care about anything else. I really don't. I don't need them to win the World Series again in '09. This one lasts longer than that for me. I've been waiting 25 years. I'm not only going to enjoy it for a week or a month.

[Jimmie J.]

--I firmly believe that if you are a Philly sports fan it is your birthright to bitch, complain, and to view every event in its worst possible perspective and permutation.--

Wow. If you're a Mets fan, what's your birthright?

[i can't stand joe morgan]

i personally bitched after the phillies lost 2 out of 3 to the marlins in september before the brewers sweep. i also bitched after they called game 5. good things happened after that so maybe i should bitch more often.
My comments on the perfect season are that the dvd i got crapped out after chapter 13 ( the phillies are 2008 nl east champions ). can anyone tell me what happened after that? ha.

[mvptommyd]

CY

No pitching = no winning

How good did the braves do the years he was in Atlanta???

Angels had good pitching thats why they won with him.

You would think for 8 yr/ 184 mil offer the nats supposely gave him,he was the next coming.

[johnnysanz3]

CY - You never know, that "global warming" thing might just swoop in to PA any one of these days and turn our 17 degree weather into 70s!

IT'S COMING! ANY DAY NOW!! BE WARNED!

I guess till then I will freeze my a** off every morning like every other winter in PA

[clout]

Almost all the bitching was actually a debate between groups of posters. I led the charge against starting Pedro vs. RHP, but I was in a minority and in an even smaller minority in saying if the Phils made the playoffs it would be as division winners, not Wild Card, which flipper said was ridiculous. It's the debate produced by the bitching that makes Beerleaguer fun.

[CY]

mvp -

I think they are just trying to possibly sell some tickets and create some sort of a buzz around the team. Maybe they will have a winning record in one of the 8 years.

Arod didn't do much for the Rangers. But they were able to trade him. So maybe the nats can do that as well in a couple years. If they wanted to win they would put money into the draft. That doesn't sell tickets and jerseys though.

[msb]

My biggest complaint all year was my same complaint in '04-06--namely lack of timely hitting and too many strikeouts with less than 2 outs. My biggest surprise was the awesome bullpen of 2008. Good pitching covers alot of hitting transgressions.

I did write the Phils off after the Marlins series. I was so fed up with them, and I'm sorry but a sweep of the Brewers was highly unlikely. It's nice being the dog and not the hydrant for once!

[Paul]

Braves didn't set the world on fire when Tex was there, but they were good enough to compete. They were on the trade-dump-or-make-a-run-for-it fence for a while until the arms all went down. I dont think the Nats are going anywhere either, but he'd definately help.

Bitching now is a lot easier, IMO, because the hardest part about wining a championship is when you're defending it.

[J. Weitzel]

Perhaps Pedro vs. RHP felt like a majority to me because I was also in the camp that said Pedro needed to sit. Agreed that it's all in good fun.

[mvptommyd]

"My biggest complaint all year was my same complaint in '04-06--namely lack of timely hitting and too many strikeouts with less than 2 outs. My biggest surprise was the awesome bullpen of 2008. Good pitching covers alot of hitting transgressions."

Not to go back to this but the lack of timely hitting and strikeouts is why they got Ibanez, to hopefully make the numbers more positive in both areas.

[Jack]

My biggest complaint is the complaining about the "all or nothing" offense. Apparently people don't like home runs, which just happen to be the single best event possible for an offensive player. What's funny is when people complain about strikeouts, despite them having no negative correlation whatsoever with offensive success, and actually often having a positive correlation.

Interesting stat: In 2007, we had 1205 strikeouts, and scored 892 runs. This year we had 1117 strikeouts, and scored 799 runs. So, people, you got your wish, we struck out less. We also scored less.

The idea of Phillies fans complaining about offense over the last few years is completely laughable, considering we've been the best offense in the National League the last few years.

[Jack]

Some more interesting strikeout numbers. Here are the 6 NL teams with the fewest strikeouts last year: Cardinals, Braves, Mets, Dodgers, Pirates, Giants (in that order).

Here are their respective ranks in runs scored: 4, 6, 2, 9, 13, 15

Doesn't seem to me to matter very much. The top 6 teams in strikeouts (FLA, ARI, SD, COL, MIL, CHC) ranked 5, 10, 16, 8, 7, 1

There doesn't seem to me to be a whole lot of correlation between strikeouts and runs scored, but I guess if people keep saying something enough, people assume that it's true.

[mvptommyd]

Jack,

Offense doesn't matter as much as pitching does. We scored almost 100 less runs but our pitching was so much better espically in key moments, thats why we won the WS.

I would take pitching over offense anyday.

[mm]

Hey All: A nice article written by Doug Glanville about his time playing winter Ball in Puerto Rico in the NYTimes this Morning. Here is the link

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/opinion/23glanville.html?partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

[Jack]

mvp: Agreed that pitching is more important than offense. My point was that strikeouts aren't really important at all in the overall context of scoring runs. Yet people act as if a team that strikes out a lot is doomed. This is simply not true.

[mvptommyd]

Jack,

Oh yea you are 100% correct. The reason there are so many stikeouts is because we had so many power hitters. Like Howards, Burrells of the world. Power Hitters strike out.

[jlwells5]

Even after winning a title your players are still bitching about the Mets.

[mvptommyd]

I also saw Howard turned down an invite to the WBC. So hopefully jimmy follows with a decline as well. So we can all breath a sigh of relief with Hamels, Lidge, Howard and hopefully Rollins all declining.

[jlwells5]

I also saw Howard turned down an invite to the WBC. So hopefully jimmy follows with a decline as well. So we can all breath a sigh of relief with Hamels, Lidge, Howard and hopefully Rollins all declining.

I knew the Red in the Phillies Uniform was for Communism!

(Kidding- I kind of wish the WBC didn't exist...Spring Training with your team is kind of important).

[vegas]

Jason, are you hinting at a Beerleaguer New Year's resolution?

I'm joining Campaign Cheer this year.

[Andy]

Without reading anyone's post but Jason's you forgot one major, important peeve:

We bitched that Chollie refused to break up the lefties.

[Andy]

jlwells:
Merry Christmas. As a gift I'd like to give you the opportunity to root for a real team. In the meantime, here's a pleasant holiday thought for all the many Mets trolls:

WFC!!!

That's all.

[twig]

A bitching Philly fan is a happy Philly fan.

[jlwells5]

"Opportunity to root for a real team"

No offense man, I'm tortured enough as a Jet and Met fan. I don't need another team with a tendency towards heartbreak.

[J. Weitzel]

Andy: I actually had that in originally, but decided to take it out because it seemed too valid a complaint.

[bay_area_phan]

As one of the more vociferous bitchers, I can only say: great entry, Jason. I would add one more recurring bitch to the list: we bitched when cholly pulled Burrell for a pinch runner. In fact, we've been bitching about it for about 3 years running & it kind of depresses me that I'll never be able to bitch about it again.

[bay_area_phan]

Gotta love this comment from mvptommy:

"There is alot of "bitching" on this site and 75% of the time has no logic behind it, only stats numbers to fall back on."

Um, tommy, I believe those stats and numbers ARE logic.

[CY]

Please BAP. NO! Don't get him going on stats again.

[Deutsche Phan]

JW - Amazing foresight not to include the splitting the LH issue. Once you summarize it in a hindsight post, it sort of detracts from the ability to bitch about it in 2009.

[bay_area_phan]

Also, while I agree with you (mvptommy) that pitching wins championships, I disagree with the notion that the Nats are being foolish by throwing $184M at Teixeira and that they would be better off spending that money on pitching.

Pitching may win championships but, if you're going to give out a mega-contract, you're a lot better off giving it to an everyday player. Pitchers get injured more and tend to have shorter careers. Guys like Tom Glavine and Jamie Moyer are rare. Most top pitchers have short peaks and, by the time they finally reach their free agency eligibility, they're already close to the end of that peak. There are a few exceptions but, going forward, it's very difficult to identify who those exceptions are going to be. Therefore, there's huge risk in giving a 5 or 7-year contract to a 29 or 30-year old starting pitcher. Chances are about 75% that the Yankees are going to end up getting burned on at least one of those two big contracts they just gave out, and chances are about 50% they end up getting burned on both.

With Teixeira, you know what you're going to get. For some reason, there's this perception that, because he isn't Pujols or Manny, he's somehow not worth a $184M contract. In fact, Teixeira is easily one of the 10 best players in baseball, and maybe one of the 5 best. And there is no reason to believe that he won't continue to be one of the game's best players for the next 5 years. He alone won't make the Nats contenders in the East, but he will sure help.

[Andy]

"it kind of depresses me that I'll never be able to..."

Yeah. Now we'll have to bitch that he puts in the Gnome (or Bloomquist) for Ibanez.

Completely different th...I mean...um...

Hey! I guess you won't have to be depressed after all!

[Andy]

In re: the offense

They really did score four or fewer runs (below MLB average) much more in 2008 than in 2007. Just 'cause we're bitching about it doesn't mean it's not a valid concern.

(This is a paraphrase from one of my old professors: "Just cause you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.")

[ae]

I think special acknowledgment has to go to mvptommy et al. bitching about other people's bitching. that kind of metabitching (and then my own metametabitching!) is truly what makes the Phillies blogosphere great.

[ae]

I think special acknowledgment has to go to mvptommy et al. bitching about other people's bitching. that kind of metabitching (and then my own metametabitching!) is truly what makes the Phillies blogosphere great.

[baxter]

My 2008 Beerleaguer moment to bitch about:

At the beginning of Utley's slump, I predicted he was in "big trouble", after a "loopy" swing on a 89mph high inside fastball from Bartolo Colon. After being unanimously condemned as a heretic, I explained that Chase wasn't turning his hips on high inside pitches, which caused his left elbow to bend, resulting in a "loop" in his swing. I predicted that teams would exploit this weakness until Chase made an adjustment, which was essentially what happened. Virtually everyone called me crazy until their eyes adjusted to the light, yo.

[redbeard]

wtf man, there are plenty of other bitching highlights that are better, those stink!

jk, merry hollidays! i love beerleaguer.

[collegephan]

I may not post much, nor bitch much as a result. But bitching about So Taguchi was certainly the most valid bitching this site did all season.

unless you want to consider bitching about Eaton, but I think Cholly himself was making a few of those angry posts, so that doesn't count

[RSB]

There's been a fair amount of bitching about Ryan Howard (particularly from my end), but Conlin's criticism of him for shunning the WBC takes it entirely too far. It's an unfair slant and I only hope Conlin is as past the point of influence as many here regard him to be - and as ignored as he deserves to be. He seems to infer that any player that passes on the non-event is unpatriotic. What complete garbage. Howard's primary obligation is to the Phillies, and if he says he wants to concentrate on getting off to a better start for them for a change, how could that be grounds for such high-horse sniveling?

[Dave X]

Yo, too much bitching about Carlos Ruiz went on.

[Brian G]

Happy Birthday to Brad Lidge, who turns 32 today!

As for the bitching. One frustration I have with Beerleaguer is that there is often no room for nuance. Everyone's favorite poster tries to force everything into black and white categories. Everything is either absolutely correct or unconscionably stupidly wrong. For example, with the Feliz vs RHers or Ibanez signings.. I was against both, but can see the other side's merits and think it's close enough that I don't need to get my panties in a bunch about Cholly or the FO going the other way.

However, subbing in Bruntlett when Burrell is guaranteed to come up the next inning. Now that's just stupid.

[donc]

I know there was a ton of Carlos Ruiz bitching but he was frustrating offensively. About 3/4 of the way through the season I think the light went on for a lot of us. This guy is not merely a good major league catcher, he's exceptional. It was nice to hear McCarver give him his due late in the season and in the post-season too. Call it a hunch, but I think a bit of late season clutch hitting may jump start him offensively. If he can improve to anywhere near a major league average hitter, we've really got something. I'll bet he saved 4 or 5 of Lidge's saves with his glove. The kid's a helluva catcher.

[Alby]

"There is alot of "bitching" on this site and 75% of the time has no logic behind it, only stats numbers to fall back on."

Must...control...urge...to...comment...

[Alby]

"There is alot of "bitching" on this site and 75% of the time has no logic behind it, only stats numbers to fall back on."

Must...resist...urge...to...respond....

[J. Weitzel]

Ruiz was another scratch from the original post. Should just go with my first draft always.

[clout]

Brian G: You absolutely were NOT in favor sitting Feliz vs. RHP until late into the season. You can't re-write history when everyone remembers your posts.

[ozark]

Conlin's piece today takes Howard to task for declining the WBC. He makes a pretty good argument. I'm not a fan of the WBC, but it conceivably be better preparation for the season than spring training games (at least for hitters).

[baxter]

Not to beerleaguer the point, but if Carlos Carrasco has a great WBC and strong spring training, would you make him the 5th starter?

[donc]

It would be great if the Phillies would open up the vault and sign someone like Derrick Lowe. But we all know that's not going to happen. Failing that, I don't think having the 5th starter on a world series champion team as a promising but untested rookie is the worst thing in the world. After all we do have 4 proven veteran starters. That should allow #5 to develop with (relatively) little pressure. The fact that we have potentially two such pitchers makes it all the more appealing I think. I guess it makes sense to give Happ a look and if he doesn't work out maybe turn to Carrasco. Kendrick could be your doomsday scenario or injury insurance guy. God I would hate to see it come to that though.

[msb]

I understand that in the context of a season, a team with great power hitters will strike out alot, however I'm talking about specific game situations where runners were getting stranded in tight games. As the season went on, the Phils did get more clutch hits, but the pitching carried them. Suppose the pitching was mediocre against the Rays during that stretch in WS where the Phils went thru that horrendous streak of leaving men on base. If the Phils lose the WS, do we still praise the phils offense for scoring lots of runs in meaningless games in the regular season? Most would say they were talented but didn't get it done in clutch spots with men on. Who cares if the Pirates don't strike out a lot. They don't get enough men on base for it to matter. We're talking about what we bitched about this year, and situational hitting, especially with no one out is my personal pet peeve.

I'm not debating whether they have a prolific offense. They've had that for a number of years. They're just hot and cold, and in the past, they needed as many runs as possible cause the pitching was inconsistent. This year the pitching carried them even when they left lots of men on base.

[baxter]

Johan Santana is the toughest lefty the Phillies will face all year, and possibly the one they'll face the most.

Raul Ibanez's career avg vs Santana: .353
Chase Utley's career avg vs Santana: .158

Should this have any effect on the Phillies lineup vs Santana?

other notable Ibanez career averages:
K-Rod: .318
Javier Vazquez(ATL): .357

[Pete Happy]

It's my season.

Feliz Navidad everyone!

[Jack]

msb: Yeah, I just think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face if you focus on situational hitting. What you need to do is score runs. Period. If they didn't score runs in the WS, it would just be because their bats went cold at the wrong time. And because they weren't that great an offensive team overall this year.

You also conveniently ignore the fact that this year and last year we had the two highest rates of successful stolen base attempts in history. So, often, we didn't need situational hitting because our baserunners got themselves over.

Here's the thing: Leaving/Hitting with men on base is not a skill any different than normal hitting. If you're a .250 hitter normally, you'll most likely be a little bit better thah .250 with guys on base, because of the pitcher from the stretch and fielders out of position. Teams can practice "situational" hitting more than others, but I haven't seen a lot of evidence that this correlates at all with scoring. What correlates with scoring: Getting on-base, hitting for power. That's what good offensive teams do.

[baxter]

I bet Dominicans get confused about "Feliz" playing for the "Phillies". que?

[Deutsche Phan]

Very much off-topic, and maybe this has been noted before, but I was alarmed to learn that there is a bizarro Asian Phanatic for our sister team...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-nSlFfk-ULs/RpiL5OVksyI/AAAAAAAAARs/jO0PDSg0e0s/Hiroshima+vs+Yokohama+025.jpg

[mvptommyd]

Baxter, you are 100% correct. According to Clout and AE & co. they might not be good enough to justify that conclusion with regards to good lefties.

[Andy]

"...if Carlos Carrasco has a great WBC and strong spring training, would you make him the 5th starter?"

Posted by: baxter

No.

He needs to keep his innings well under 180 this coming year.

[Andy]

Gosh. The problem with Ibanez batting lefty in addition to the LHBs we already have is not the starter. Nor even the Mets closer. The problem is the mediocre middle relievers who just happen to pitch lefty who will be brought in in the 6th or 7th innings and wipe out our "RBI" guys without blinking.

Really: even Swindle might have a field day against the Phils' sixth inning this coming year.

[SalFasanoForever AKA DLHunter]

This is bullshit.

[bay_area_phan]

mvptommy: So let me get this straight? We're not allowed to cite OPS or career lefty-righty splits, to make the case that Burrell would be better for the Phillies' lineup than Ibanez. But we ARE allowed to cite stats that are based on 34 career ABs against a single pitcher, to make the case that Ibanez is better for the Phillies' lineup than Burrell?

[clout]

Folks, it ought to be obvious to everyone now that mvptommy is a troll. Unless you want to drag this blog down to the mental gutter, it's best to ignore his posts.

[ae]

of course, bap. and we also have to worry about benching Ibanez against Barry Zito (.170) and Derek Lowe (.105)--sure hope the Mets don't sign him!--and Jeff Suppan (.100) and Jason Johnson (.143).

on the bright side, we did manage to snap up Chan Ho Park (.125) and JC Romero (.136), so we don't have to worry about them. but Ibanez has never ever ever gotten a hit off LaTroy Hawkins, so we're screwed if someone figures that out.

[baxter]

Why must we always deal in absolutes? Are we Sith? These Pat Burrell hypotheticals were irrelevant and boring weeks ago. Instead of using every mention of Ibanez as another opportunity to spout the same "principles" repeated daily, would anyone like to ponder this critical tactical issue?

Johan Santana is the single most important matchup for the Phillies. The Mets will structure their rotation to maximize the number of times we face him. Raul Ibanez has been much more successful against Santana than Chase Utley.

The Mets don't have one of these mythical LOOGIES destined to doom the middle of our order. Ibanez also happens to hit K-Rod well. So, it needs to be asked: where should Ibanez hit against Santana?*

*nothing to do with Pat Burrell

[bay_area_phan]

"Johan Santana is the single most important matchup for the Phillies."

In a 162-game season, where the most you'll ever face a single starting pitcher is about 4 times, there is no such thing as a "single most important matchup." Are we building a team for 4 games or for 162?

[bay_area_phan]

Unreal: the Yankees have signed Teixeira.

[mvptommyd]

BAP & Clout

That latest post was being sarcastic. Meaning you guys pick and choose what stats to use to make your point.

[baxter]

BTW- Ryan Howard's career avg vs Johan Santana: .429

Pedro Feliciano has actually been extremely effective against Utley and Howard. So there is a LOOGY. I'd still rather gameplan around the other 5 at bats.

[donc]

The Yankees commit more than $400,000,000 to three players in the offseason and I bet they still have the onions to ask the city of New York for help with the stadium.

[bay_area_phan]

I actually hope the Yankees win 125 games and win the World Series next year. That will put a stop to all these ridiculous arguments that having a $500M payroll isn't a competitive advantage.

[mvptommyd]

BAP

gimme 20 :1 odds they won't.

They will not win the WS next yr.

[NEPP]

So how pissed are the Red Sox right now?

Bet the Yankees still dont win the WS.

[baxter]

Utley has been great against Lowe.

Why wouldn't you consider matchups? Every manager does. Focused statistics tend to be much more accurate.

Again, this has nothing to do with Pat Burrell or any other alternative to Raul Ibanez. This is about the batting order vs Johan Santana, because those games will be critical. This isn't the batting order vs LHP.

What other lefties are you worried about? There really aren't a lot of tough left-handers in the division, or the NL in general.

I realize you were being sarcastic to suggest some sort of logical fallacy, but those stats vs Zito are skewed, because Ibanez faced the much better Oakland version.

[clout]

baxter: You would be hard pressed to find a more minor, meaningless component of the Phillies 2009 success than Ibanez career BA against Santana. Ridiculous.

[CY]

MVP

I will take 20-1 odds that the yanks will win the WS.

True odds are probably half that now.

Thanks.

[Herm Starrette's chaw]

Now don't the Mets have even more pressure to sign Lowe and/or Burrell? This really stinks!!

[mvptommyd]

Baxter

Until God willing we win the WS next yr, majority will not be happy about Ibanez, lets just save our fingers from all the typing to try to prove otherwise.

I just love how everyone is making Burrell into a hall of fame irreplaceable LFer. It seems like yesterday us fans were counting down the days until Burrell's and now we can't let him go.

[clout]

Angels say they won't sign Manny, lost out on Tex, suggests they may get more active on Burrell. He belongs in the AL anyway.

[DPatrone]

Donc & BAP~

The Yanks moves surprise you? They're a big-market team that spend like a big-market team. Thwy have the money to do whatever they want. The Phils are a big market team that spend like a small-market team for the most part. That's the difference between the 2 organizations. The Phils also have the money to do whatever they want. And what they want is to keep it in their pockets.

Other than Eyre and Moyer, I really don't like the moves they made so far this off-season. They've really come up short. Ibanez is a good hitter amd is in terrific shape for his age but they are way too LH. The rest of the signings and any possible future deals for the upcoming seasonwill be for marginal players at best. Yes they will keep their own players. But in my opinion they've come up short, especially since they won the WS and had the opportunity to potentially keep a great thing going and failed. All it takes is money. They work within a budget abd the Yanks don't. How's that for bitchin'? Now if anybody out there wants to tell me I'm wrong. here I am.

[mvptommyd]

Ugh, let them sign the world. It takes 3 things to win a WS. Look at every team that has won in the past 10 years for sake of argument.

1. Pitching
2. Role Players
3. Mental Toughness

The most skilled team doesn't always win.