Report: Phils extend offer to free agent Derek Lowe

A baseball source for the Boston Globe says the Phils are one of two teams to make their official pitch to the 35-year-old righthander, a Scott Boras client expected to receive a deal in the four-year, $14-15 million range. Lowe, who's averaged about 33 starts a season since 2002, went 14-11 with a 3.24 ERA (131 ERA+) for the West-winning Dodgers, matching a career high in strikeouts with 147. The story said the identity of Lowe's second pursuer was unknown, but confirmed it was neither the Yankees nor Red Sox, both expected to meet with Boras later this week. [Link]

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Comments

[NEPP]

Cool. I hope he signs. If this is why we didn't give Pat arbitration and it actually works out...I'll be okay with it...though we do lose a draft pick out of it...which sucks.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Good. I hope it's for real and not just something to get Moyer to come down in price/years. They've always liked Lowe, from what I remember, so I can see his ground ball inducing skills being a good fit.

[NEPP]

They tried to get him last time he was a FA too...when he went to LA.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

yep, that's what I was thinking.

On the down side, I'm more comfortable with a three year deal, but I doubt they could get him for that.

[CJ]

Derek Lowe is a PERFECT pitcher for CBP. He could easily slip into the #2 spot in the rotation (or #3, if you want to leave Myers there). Then it's Blanton at #4 and either Moyer or Happ at #5. I think this kind of pitching upgrade could go a long way to making up for a decline in offense from losing Burrell.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

And they also have Carraso looming.

[CJ]

Bed Beard: Yeah... three years is right deal for the Phillies which means whoever signs Lowe will have to pony up a fourth year. That's baseball economics.

[Len39]

Looks like I called it! Lowe would be great for several reasons. 1) He is a sinkerball pitcher in CBP 2) He seems as safe a bet as anyone to be a quality starter for years 3) He gives us another legit #2 guy if/when Myers leaves after this season 4) It could free up someone like JA Happ to trade for some righthanded power 5) Hamels/Myers/Lowe/Blanton is a heck of a rotation and even with less offense it would be hard to imagine not being in contention all year with that staff 6) Blanton is an average #3 starter, but an above average #4 starter 7) He will also help preserve the bullpen with a bunch of quality starts so the move has a ripple effect that helps the entire staff.

I really see no downside to Lowe as "sentimental" as I am about Moyer and Burrell, I would gladly take Lowe in their place. Plus, if the market isn't there for either Moyer or Burrell there is still a shot at a one year deal on them.

[NEPP]

I'd give him a 4 year deal if that's what it took. He was said to be originally asking for a 5 year deal...

[CJ]

Bed Beard: Exactly... I think Carrasco's arrival comes in 2010 when Myers is gone. And the rotation shouldn't miss a beat!

[DPatrone]

Let's not get excited abut this yet-or at all. While the Phils may have made an offer, I find it difficult to believe that any Boras client will sign here. When Lowe signs elsewhere, the Phils PR spin will be at least they tried. But in reality, their offer likely isn't good enough.

[Sophist]

Are we just falling hook-line-and-sinker for this? Lowe would be a great addition (esp in they sign Moyer as a 4/5 as well: Hamels, Lowe, Myers, Blanton, Moyer), but the Phils play these games to keep us excited. Won't the Sox just outbid the Phils anyway?

[GM-Carson]

Crazy scenario- Phils sign Lowe. Blue Jays lose Burnett. Phils trade Myers to Toronto (whom they've always liked) for one of their righthanded batting outfielders (Rios or Wells, preferably Rios). Would probably have to kick in a prospect to sweeten the deal- Happ or Donald?

[NEPP]

I put the chances of Lowe actually coming to Philly at around 10%.

Realisically we will probably be outbid unless Amaro goes nuts.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Here come the negative nellies, right on cue.

[YEAHH]

no chance the offer was anything close to what lowe wants. They did it just to get moyers price down cmon. The phils will never sign a big free agent and even if the offer was solid enough the agent would go to the mets and get a bigger offer there. Chance of the mets letting the phils get lowe is 0% after what happened the past 2 yrs. No chance the mets would let the phils sign anybody they would want first for that matter. If the player and agent arent looking for the best deal, then maybe the phils would land lowe. Thats simple economics of both teams stances on finances

[NEPP]

Myers and Donald for Rios...they MIGHT actually go for that as they need a SS and pitching...especially if you tossed in a B/C type prospect too.

[NEPP]

****The phils will never sign a big free agent ****

~coughs~

Jim Thome

~coughs again~

[CY]

how would offering lowe a contract cause moyer to lower his demands?

After offering Lowe a contract it is hard to tell moyer that we don't have any money for a starting pitcher. Especially a hometown boy who helped us win a chip.

Seems like it would only hurt negotiations if we actually signed lowe. Then moyer would not be coming back obviously.

Either way, I hope we get lowe, seems like a great fit. But I still like Sheets better, cheaper, shorter and better stuff. Bigger risk though, of course.

[bay_area_phan]

Are we just falling hook-line-and-sinker for this?

Undoubtedly, yes. They probably did make an "offer" but it was probably a ridiculous low-ball offer that they know he has no intention of accepting. It served its purpose, though. The story got out there in the media, so now: (1) the fans will be satisified that ownership really did try to be active in the FA market; and (2) management has gained a little bit of leverage in the Jamie Moyer negotiations.

[Bonehead]

How many of us believe that Phils will be okay with a 2009 payroll north of $130MM?

Because all of these pipedream posts add up to that figure.

[Sophist]

BB - what in the recent history of this team gives you the feeling that negativity isn't, in the very least, permitted to balance and fill out the discussion of this news? i don't mean to weed out the discussion of the merits or any hope that they can contract Lowe, but PR and price considerations seem relevant to the discussion (even with their pessimistic conclusions.)

[timr]

I want to believe...

[The Truth Injection]

John Perrotto reports that Amaro has reached out to Jayson Werth and Ryan Madson about signing contract extensions.

That would be an excellent move.

Also, why don't we wait on the Lowe offer details before we start trying to break it down?

[Bubba]

Let's see-- we have a Scott Boras client and a rumor from an unnamed source of a bidding war just before Boras meets with the Yankees and BoSox.

[bay_area_phan]

Bubba: Bingo! I think you just hit the nail on the head.

[king myno]

If the Phillies have every intention of letting Moyer and Burrell walk, I think the Lowe big contract pipedream is possible. However, I think the Value Village LF addition would make us retch. Still, to have a 1-2-3-4 of Hamels-Lowe-Myers-Blanton, with Carrasco hopefully taking over the no.3-4 role in 2010, makes me happy. Pitching wins championships!

[Dave X]

The Phils most likely won't land Lowe, and I wouldn't be too saddened. Pitchers that old should never get contracts that long. In terms of 2009, signing Moyer instead of Lowe is in all probability a large upgrade, as Moyer is fairly unlikely to repeat his performance at his age. The thought of having $14+ Million committed to a player - especially a pitcher - of Lowe's age, though, is enough for me not to sign him. If he declines significantly, which there is a decent chance of happening, that millstone is bigger than Eaton's and Feliz's contracts combined.

[vegas]

Bonehead-Being World Ph**king Champions has to have changed the mindset with ownership. Let's hope winning is addictive as crack and they lossen the purse strings.

[Bonehead]

King - Even with letting Burrell and Moyer walk, signing Lowe would boost 2009 payroll over $130MM.

Do you think that the Phils would be okay with that?

[NEPP]

What's crazier?

Giving Lowe 4 years or giving Moyer 2 years?

[Len39]

If you let Burrell and Moyer walk I don't see how signing Lowe would be that much of a stretch on the payroll. I mean you are talking over $20 million for Burrell and Moyer and Lowe won't cost $20 million. Then the pipe dream would be retaining Burrell or Moyer at a discount if there are no good offers for them.

I wouldn't expect any other money spent on anything after Lowe except the arbitration raises. I do think we will be looking at a Jay Payton type/Jenkins/Stairs/Dobbs platoon in leftfield at that point. Hopefully they can get creative and maybe package Donald and Happ for Delmon Young. I was reading there was a lot of interest in Young so that is probably a pipe dream.

Anyway, no matter who is in leftfield I feel really good about a starting four of Hamels/Myers/Lowe/Blanton with the same bullpen returning.

[bay_area_phan]

"Pitchers that old should never get contracts that long."

That's true only in theory. In reality, you have to overpay to get top-drawer FAs. If you don't, you'll never get them.

I also think the concerns about Lowe's age are a little overstated. He's 35 (turning 36 next season), with a long history of being extremely consistent and extremely durable. As a finesse pitcher with great command, he is exactly the type of pitcher that should continue to be effective into his late 30s. In fact, I would guess that he'll probably still be a useful starter even into his early 40s.

Given his consistency and his strong health history, I would actually say that Derek Lowe for 4 years would be considerably less risky than AJ Burnett for 5 years. Burnett has more upside, but way, way more risk.

[stjoehawk]

"However, I think the Value Village LF addition would make us retch."

Quick quiz: Who was the original 'Value Village' player?

Answer: JC Romero (http://beerleaguer.typepad.com/beerleaguer/2007/06/game_chat_phill_5.html)

The lesson here is that Value Village is NOT a bad thing on its own. It's looking for a bargain & hoping to strike it big. If it fails, it's not a huge loss, but if it works, there's a nice payoff.

[stjoehawk]

"In reality, you have to overpay to get top-drawer FAs. If you don't, you'll never get them."

And look at where that got the Phillies...

[NEPP]

Considering that Werth, Romero, Victorino, Dobbs & Moyer(waiver trade for essentially nothing) were all essentially "scrap heap" acquisitions we might want to let our scouting dept take a shot on finding a cheap LF. That's a pretty good run on low-cost solutions right there.

[Hibachi]

"As a finesse pitcher with great command, he is exactly the type of pitcher that should continue to be effective into his late 30s. In fact, I would guess that he'll probably still be a useful starter even into his early 40s."

Just to add to that, there has been a lot of mention about Lowe's attitude getting better as he gets older, so I don't think giving 4 years to a 35/36 year old in this situation would be that much of a negative.

[baxter]

They already got their low-cost scrap heap Stanford alum solution.

[Lazarus]

I can't see the Phillies actually landing Lowe given that the Yankees and Sox both want him as well, but if the FO somehow pulls it off his addition would certainly keep us in the mix next year.

[clout]

Nice to see the Phillies maintain their league lead in FA star "mentions." They were also mentioned in connection with that Japanese pitcher who signed with the Red Sox and had numerous mentions in last off-season in connection with the FA stars.

[CJ]

I'm just choosing to ignore the naysayers in this case.

After all, many of them declared our season over numerous times this year.

It apparently makes them feel better to be negative about everything Phillies related.

Quick reminder: WFC.

[clout]

BedBeard: And your reason for believing this will happen is....?

[Len39]

BAP: I couldn't agree more with your assessment. Lowe is the safest bet out there to give a four year deal to. I would definitley take him over Burnett. I was just looking at Lowe's stats and since becoming a starter in 2002 he's made over 32 starts every year. His pitching style shows no indication he won't keep that going until his 40s. Age isn't everything.

NEPP: I just hope it wasn't Gillick's skills that found those players off the scrap heap. I think Gillick's greatest accomplishment was getting Victorino, Werth, Moyer, Dobbs, Coste, Romero, Durbin for next to nothing. I did read that Victorino was Amaro's find so hopefully that is a sign of things to come.

[stjoehawk]

"Nice to see the Phillies maintain their league lead in FA star "mentions." They were also mentioned in connection with that Japanese pitcher who signed with the Red Sox and had numerous mentions in last off-season in connection with the FA stars."

They also lead the league (as well as the majors) in World Series wins in 2008.

[johnnysanz3]

I don't know his personal feelings or anything about pitching in Citizen's Bank Park, but remember how he rolled his eyes and got angry because of Utley's home run in the dodgers series? Doesn't seem to me like he appreciates the field, (and yes I know it's not that bad of a home run park as advertised)

[NEPP]

Maybe the Phillies could hire Scott Boras to make a "Binder" detailing CBP's strengths as a pitchers park. Would that be a conflict of interest?

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Giants and Marlins considering a Sanchez for Cantu deal.

[clout]

NEPP: "Considering that Werth, Romero, Victorino, Dobbs & Moyer(waiver trade for essentially nothing) were all essentially "scrap heap" acquisitions we might want to let our scouting dept take a shot on finding a cheap LF. That's a pretty good run on low-cost solutions right there."

Agreed if you forget about all the scrap heap players they brought in who failed.

[NEPP]

But that's the good thing about scrap heap guys clout...they don't cost anything so if they fail it doesnnt kill you like an Adam Eaton signing.

[CJ]

clout: But if you're bringing in a bunch of scrap heap players, it doesn't matter if they fail as long as you don't waste a great deal of time on them. They're cheap for a reason. When you look at the value we've gotten out of the Value Village (WFC anyone?), it's certainly a strategy that's worked out. No one is going to hit on every signing.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

"BedBeard: And your reason for believing this will happen is....?"

I didn't say it "will happen". Not my words, sorry.

I'm just not a believer in the conspiracy theory that they throw around offers just b/c. And "having interest in X" is meaningless. Every team has an "interest" in a good player/prospect. It's writers throwing that stuff out there to put in a column. A lot of people here read too much into that crap.

[bay_area_phan]

SJH: Actually, the Phillies DID overpay to lock up a few of their key players. They certainly overpaid Burrell (at the time the contract was signed). They certainly overpaid to resign Romero. They probably overpaid when they extended Myers. They also gave Jamie Moyer a 2-year deal, which seemed totally ridiculous at the time considering that he was then 43 years old. There was even griping about the 5-year deal they gave to Rollins several years back. It looks like a bargain in retrospect but, at the time, he was in the midst of a bad year and had really only had one excellent season.

What do you propose? We let Burrell and Moyer walk and go into the season with Kendrick and Jenkins as their replacements?

[Lazarus]

In NEPP's defense, clout, we've done fairly well over the last few years turning another team's waste into an advantage for our club. Certainly we've had busts, but there have also been some quality additions. I still don't want the low cost solution for LF, but I don't think the world would end if we went that route.

[CJ]

Additionally...

This isn't just being "tied" to a free agent. This isn't just a "mention." This is an honest to goodness contract offer. I highly doubt the Phillies would insult Scott Boras with a rediculous offer. What purpose would that serve?

[Bonehead]

2009 Estimated Phillies Payroll:

$12M Myers
$7M Hamels-est arbitration
$4M Blanton-est arbitration
$.4 Happ-est tender offer
?? (open SP slot)

$13M Lidge
$4M Romero
$2M Eyre
$3.5 Madson-est arbitration
$2.5M Durbin-est arbitration
$.7M Condrey-est arbitration
$.4M Kendrick-est tender offer

$.6M Ruiz-est tender offer
$.6M Coste-est tender offer

$11M Utley
$7.5M Rollins
$5M Feliz
$15M Howard-est arbitration
$.7M Dobbs-est arbitration
$.7M Est for utility infielder

$6M Jenkins
$1M Stairs
$4M Victorino-est arbitration
$4M Werth-est arbitration
?? (open OF slot)

$8.5M Eaton-dead money
$1M Gordon-2009 contract buyout
$.15M Taguchi-2009 contract buyout
$3M Thome-est remainder owed to CWS

All this adds to $118M - WITHOUT Moyer, Burrell, Lowe.
And 2 roster spots unfilled.

[bay_area_phan]

There is nothing wrong with the scrap heap signing. There's no risk involved and occasionally it works out.

However, the scrap heap approach cannot be your exclusive (or even primary) means for building a team. To succeed with the scrap heap method requires a considerable dosage of luck. Far more often, it fails.

There is a reason that there is a high correlation between payroll and success. Players who cost a lot of money are, by definition, proven commodities. You're a lot more likely to find a good pitcher by paying $15M to Derek Lowe than by spending $500,000 to bring in 5 Travis Blackleys. I find it incredible that so many people don't understand that rather basic concept.

[CJ]

bap: Who is disputing that?

Some seem to suggest that the Value Village should be abandoned because it doesn't always work out. No one is suggesting that we ignore top line free agents.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

I think if the Phils went out and signed a handful of big name guys, the complaints that they need "value village" type guys would start pouring in.

[NEPP]

Well then we'll likely be at least at $130 no matter what with those numbers. At that point, what's another $5 million considering how much money comes off the books after 09.

[Lazarus]

It is a fairly easy concept BAP, but realistically, given the explosion in player salaries over the last decade or so, only a very few teams have the income to spend at that level for any length of time.

[thephaithful]

I dont classify myself as one of the negative fans, but theres no way in hell that I believe that this report from an unknown source, with unknown contract terms is enough reason to believe that the Phillies are going to sign Derek Lowe.

It is nice to think about and all, but I'm not going to bother to start piecing together payroll, roster, trade scenarios that include Lowe in our rotation just yet.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

"is enough reason to believe that the Phillies are going to sign Derek Lowe."

It's a reported "offer", not a contract being "signed".

[DPatrone]

Like I said, don't get excited. He's not comin' to Philly. Especially if the Yanks or Bosox wnat him. Phils' can't/don't/won't play in that money league. We're goona sign strickly value-village guys.

[fljerry]

Patrone aren't you the guy who has all the connections with Phils FO, and has the trade rumors? Have not heard anything so far from you.

[thephaithful]

well - i was getting at that I doubt the offer is a credible one that Lowe would consider signing. I can make an offer for $5 for Lowe to mow my lawn, but i wouldn't consider that news - which i think is along the same lines as this 'reported' offer.

I just read Ken Rosenthal's article that MLBTR linked to, and its the first i've heard this prespective - Its say the Phillies are considering Derek Lowe as a 'backup' plan if Moyer decides to go else where. The way Rosenthal writes the article, it makes it seem like the Phils are the aggressors with Moyer and he is simply not answering their calls.

[Andy]

Bonehead = Thanks for that breakdown. It's helpful to see.

[Brian G]

I agree with the points made by YEAHH, Bonehead, Bubba, and Dave X.

Further, while I'd love to have Derek Lowe on our team next year, I don't think going after him is a good strategy for two reasons:
1. Signing 35 year old pitchers to 4-5 year contracts is generally bad business.
2. Since, having just taken in WS winning revenue, we're presumably one of the few teams that has money to spend, I think it makes more sense for us to raid the 2nd tier shelf instead of going after the elite guys who will cost nearly as much as normal. Bring back Burrell and Moyer for discounts, and go after a guy like Juan Cruz who may cost less than usual. The general idea being, why pay the normal price for a Mercedes when you can instead get three Lexuses for half off?

[Bedrosian's Beard]

"i was getting at that I doubt the offer is a credible one that Lowe would consider signing. I can make an offer for $5 for Lowe to mow my lawn, but i wouldn't consider that news - which i think is along the same lines as this 'reported' offer."

You don't insult a Boras client without being exposed. Come on.

[Bonehead]

Isn't the plural of Lexus - Lexi? :)

[Andy]

Why it could happen (a.k.a. Flavoraid™):
1) Ruben has given every indication he is interested in building a strong pitching staff - going all the way back to last year's arbitration hearings when he said something like, "with a limited budget, you can't build both great hitting and great pitching."
2) Derek Lowe was on the Phils' radar before. They, like we, think that his superb sinker would play well at CBP.
3) Boras had a kinda tough off-season last year and might like to land a big deal early on to re-establish some "credibility." (Remember this is the Flavoraid™ list.) It would especially good to get someone signed to the WFCs AND to show that even arch-nemisis owners, like the Phils, can deal with him.
4) Lowe might want a WFC for himself and see the Phils as a better avenue than the LADs.
5) Phils may have enjoyed the payout from a WFC and now want more enough to spend more - dynasties REALLY sell lots of licensed garbage.
6) Lowe loves cheese-steaks. (Okay, I made that one up.) (But it could be, right?)
7) Lowe reads Beerleaguer and...okay I think I'll go back to being semi-serious now.
8) The other "team" might be Boras's imagination and there might be only limited interest out there. For all we know, Boston, NYY, NYM and LAA are all maxed out on their own payrolls and are not really in on Derek.

Soon to come: the Realistic List (a.k.a. "Why this has as much chance of happening as Jon Leiber passing up free donuts")

[stjoehawk]

"You don't insult a Boras client without being exposed. Come on. "

Especially if the Phillies are planning on talking about a deal with Madson as well.

Wait a second....

Suppose Boras tells the Phillies that he wants to use them to drive up bidding for Lowe with a fake offer (which the Phillies will neither confirm nor deny to the media). In exchange, Boras promises that the price on a long-term deal for Madson drops.

Sure, it sounds absurd (with good reason: It is absurd). But it is Scott Boras that we're talking about.

[clout]

stjoehawk: "They also lead the league (as well as the majors) in World Series wins in 2008."

Well then, it doesn't matter what happens from here does it?

[CJ]

stjoehawk: And if that got out... what GM out there would ever want to deal with Amaro? But, like you said, it's absurd... and it's Scott Boras we're talking about!

[thephaithful]

Andy: I do like the thought about Boras having gone through a rough patch last season with the whole "ARod signed the deal without him" situation, and then with Lohse having to settle for a 1yr4mil deal.

Although both cases did work out for the best...arod's the highest paid player in the game and Lohse is sitting on a $40mil contract - so i dont know how 'rough' its been for Boras.

[CJ]

clout: Of course it matters what happens from here... but it also suggests that BLer isn't always as smart as the Phillies front office. Based on the numerous proclamations, this team was nowhere near a WS team last season.

[clout]

CJ: Obviously, we'll eventually find out just how serious it was.

[GM-Carson]

Wow, one little Derek Lowe rumor and BeerLeaguer blows up...Hot Stove season begins.

[CY]

St. Joe: that is absurd. Boras doesn't need any help creating rumors of contract offers. Any internet blog can do that.

Plus it would be so incredibly unethical to compromise one client for the next. I am sure even HE would never think of doing that.

[BobbyD]

Why is everyone trying to come up with all these ulterior motives for the Phils making an offer to Lowe. Maybe they made him an offer because they want to sign him. If they haven't proven yet that they know what they're doing than they never will. Ed Wade is gone.

[Brian G]

Very interesting, regarding our discussion yesterday...

Dan (Atlantic City, NJ): Speaking of Delmon Young, what prospects might the Phillies need to include with Jason Donald to land him?

Keith Law: (1:16 PM ET ) I wouldn't offer too much more than that. Donald's going to be at least an average everyday 2b, could be an average everyday ss, and while I believe Young will hit for more power if he gets away from Minnesota, I wouldn't pay full value on that expectation.

[bay_area_phan]

Until the shoe drops on Sabathia, Lowe isn't signing anywhere. The tea leaves are suggesting that Sabathia will sign with someone other than the Yankees -- probably Anaheim. When that happens, Hank Steinbrenner will go after Lowe & Burnett with a vengeance. And don't even bother trying to convince yourself that, "Maybe Lowe will take less to play for us because we're WFC." A player who hires Scott Boras is a player who is going to play for whatever team pays him the most. That will very likely be the Yankees.

[kevmac]

I agree with many comments already stated.

1.) I like Lowe & am not overly concerned that he would break down due to age

2.) I also don't think we'll sign him. Given the other teams that are said to be in market for his services I think they'll outbid us.

Someone mention earlier that he has matured & has a better attitude. I didn't follow him closely in his earlier years, was he previously known for not being a good club house guy earlier in his career?

[CY]

Guess we have to hope that CC signs with the yanks, which has got to be better than 50-50.

That would probably leave us at about 50-50 to sign Lowe.

so, about 25% chance he signs? I will take that.

Has Lowe been linked to the Sox? I haven't seen that.

[CJ]

clout: Perhaps we will, perhaps we won't. It makes no sense to make an insulting offer to a Scott Boras client... and if we did, I'm sure it would take no time at all for that to be leaked.

[CJ]

kevmac: There has been talk that he wasn't the best teammate or citizen while with the Red Sox. Nothing criminal... but he did apparently enjoy the nightlife. Much like Pat the Bat before he got married.

[Alby]

Brian: There's a world of differece between "I wouldn't offer too much more than that" and what the Twins will ask for. If Keith Law were the analyst he thinks he is, he'd still be working for a team instead of a floundering web site that operates mainly as a way to boost print circulation for a second-rate sports rag.

[clout]

BrianG: Sounds like Law isn't as high on Delmon as Beerleaguers. Law's track record speaks for itself.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

He got nailed (pardon the pun) cheating on his wife with a newswoman(weather?) out in LA.

[CJ]

clout: "Law's track record speaks for itself."

Isn't Keith Law an idiot?

[DPatrone]

"Patrone aren't you the guy who has all the connections with Phils FO, and has the trade rumors? Have not heard anything so far from you."

fljerry~

I'm the guy who knows someone who says he knows someone who works n the MLB office. I haven't heard a damn thing and I doubt I will. If I do and it's legit, I'll pass it on. But believe me this team will do nothing of note. The FO believes there isn't any reason to.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

"But believe me this team will do nothing of note. The FO believes there isn't any reason to."

Hasn't Amaro said he wants to build around a strong pitching staff? Where do you geth the "FO believes there isn't any reason to" bunk from?

[Alby]

I'm mystified by all this "Hey, remember we're WFCs!" talk. Except for the stretch run and playoffs, this was not a particularly entertaining team to watch, and went through an almost three-month offensive swoon. While I reject the notion that they were "lucky" to win the WS, they also were not, except for the final few weeks, a dominant team. For all the excitement of the WFC, this was not an especially thrilling season to be a fan.

I'm old enough to remember the '76-'81 teams -- they dominated their division most seasons.

This team is nowhere near that level -- indeed, most of us seem to think that without improvements, they stand a good chance of missing the playoffs.

[Brian G]

Alby: espn.com is floundering?

CJ: I think Law's an arrogant and overly negative a-hole, but find his analysis to usually be pretty insightful. And I have no idea if Clout's comment means his track record is good or bad.

[CJ]

Alby: Who says a World Series champion needs to be dominant? Who was the last "dominant" team? I seem to remember the Mariners winning like 120 games one year. They're likely wondering where their WS trophy is.

[baxter]

Ironically, don't Phillies fans hate Keith Law because he underrates Phillies prospects?

Law was an assistant GM for the Blue Jays but resigned in 2006.

He also wrote for Baseball Prospectus for many years before that. Hows that rag?

[clout]

Brian G: Sorry, thought you were more familiar with Law. He's not very good, as several posters above have noted.

[NEPP]

wouldn't that mean that the newswoman was the one getting nailed???

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Or, is he now convenient bash b/c he doesn't agree with your opinion?

[Dave X]

ESPN via Phuture Phillies...

"Dave (Philly): Carrasco or Drabek in 5 years?

SportsNation Jim Callis: Drabek."

" Phil (PA): Who are your top 3 Phillies prospects, relative to age and level?

SportsNation Keith Law: (2:28 PM ET ) Did I answer this above? Donald, Brown, Carrasco, probably Taylor next. I’m a little down on Marson, whose swing is going to generate a ton of groundballs. "

[Brian G]

Alby: And the "remember we're WFCs" talk is usually in response to the "woe is me" and "our typical evil and incompetent FO at work again" type comments that seem silly considering they just accomplished the one goal that actually matters. The constant paranoia that the FO is trying to pull a fast one on us isn't rational.