Thursday open thread: Phillies, Mets finish series

Jamie Moyer and Tim Redding are slated in tonight's finale from Citi Field. Use this thread to discuss tonight's game, last night's comeback and the rest of today's headlines while I catch a flight back to Philly, where baseball coverage will include something other than Red Sox vs. Yankees. Seriously. Give me break. ESPN has covered this series just as much as the NBA Finals and Stanley Cup. Thank goodness we have a place to escape from ESPN's all-day coverage of Wang vs. Wakefield. To reiterate, last night was all about the Mets blowing a game they should have won easily. While Chase Utley, Jayson Werth and six shutout innings by Ryan Madsin and the pen deserve credit, the Mets have clearly outplayed the defending champs head-to-head this season. Regular posting resumes tomorrow. I'll be glad to post entries using something other than my phone. Enjoy the game.

Comments

[Albert]

Great post, as always Jason. Keep up the good work :)

[G-Town Dave]

Beerleaguers, still drunk w/ excitement over last night's win, nominate Phils Suck to take JW's place in 3, 2, 1 ...

[craig_one]

well we [the phillies and i] won the game last night, but in the battle of espn top plays, tatis' snare (2) defeated werth's laid out dive (6).

:-(

take it for what its worth, given that no. 7 was a bunch of people wearing MC hammer pants & dancing through a department store.

[Albert]

Anyone go to Citi during this series? I went last night and was very disappointed with the amount of Phillies fans there.

[J.R. King]

I like that Phils Suck is getting props. It's deserved and it's a backhanded jab at the Mets fans who put stupid comments on this board. The only unintelligent thing he says is that stupid name.

[doubleh]

craig_one: I never watch ESPN or BBTN anymore now that I have the MLB Network. I loves it, even though the analysts are still awkwardly trying to find their way through the program formatting. They don't number the top plays like a David Letterman shtick.

[thephaithful]

not gonna repost the entire thing, but:

Bruntlett 1st RH bat off bench on Tuesday
Bako hits before Coste on Wednesday

I ask everyone to please all agree that calling up Paul Bako up was absolutely 100% wrong.

Thanks.

[KidCarnivore]

I can't tell you the last time I've watched ESPN now that I have MLB Network. What an excellent channel.

[Tony D]

What was up with Mitch Williams last night wearing the Sarah Palin glasses?

[doubleh]

Albert: I went to see the Phils play the Yanks in NYC. One overpriced stadium in a overly trafficked area/hostile environment per season is enough for me. I can't speak for everyone else.

[MG]

I would be willing to bet that Bako sticks around for a couple of weeks, get 1-2 starts, puts up some Cairo-type numbers (sub .200 AVG with zero pop) and is off the roster by early July.

[donc]

I have a confession to make. After Jimmy Rollins lined in to the double play I turned the game off. It was an absolute foregone conclusion that the Phils were going to lose that game. My hatred for the Mets is such that I can't bare to watch them beat the Phillies. Certainly not two nights in a row. In fact the entire game seemed like a foregone conclusion. What a shock to find out the way it turned out. I am as happy today as I was miserable yesterday. This is a fabulous rivalry these days. But the Phillies need to hammer these guys. With their injuries we are clearly the better team. Bury these cockroaches.

[Mets fan]

Great game last night, this is definately THE rivalry in baseball now, since the Yanks can't seem to uphold their part of the bargain against Boston.

I can definitely respect the Phils game, they make big plays when they have to and I wish our guys played like that (see last night).

You guys have most of the bragging rights and are in a good spot, but you've gotta have a healthy respect for the Mets at this point no? How confident do you feel going against them in a playoff series. God, my BP would suffer then..

[Pete Happy]

I like it when they cover Wang, I keep hearing "I think this place is restricted, Wang, so don't tell them you're Jewish" from Caddyshack and it cracks me up.

[Mets fan]

donc: Really? I'm the biggest downer-pessamistic Met fan there is, but I'd never turn off a tie score game. You have been watching the Phils the last 2+ years, yeah?

Injuries or no injuries, I wouldn't say they are "clearly" a better team. They are less prone to stupid mistakes than the Mets and have a formidable lineup, but based on the Mets taking 15 of 24 (including last nights disaster and a couple last season), I'd hesitate to say clearly.

[Zach Morris]

Craig -- this morning, I saw that Werth's dive was number 2 in top plays. Number 1? Dwight Howard side-arm full court shot, FROM PRACTICE. Even as they were showing the clip, Hannah Storm and Josh Elliot were annoyed that the top play was from Howard screwing around at practice. I always thought that the sportscenter people wrote their own material. I guess they definitely do not pick the top plays.

[CJ]

For the record... on ESPN's Baseball Tonight's top plays, Tatis didn't make the top 5 (although Reed's catch at the wall on Howard did), while Werth was #1.

[doubleh]

Mets fan: Of course, we have a grudging respect for the Mets, even though we hate them. I wouldn't hate them if they weren't dangerous. I mean, do you hate the Nats?

I don't like them in the playoffs against each other because they are a matchup nightmare for the Phils, but they sure would be entertaining games.

But as donc says above, with the Mets injuries as they are right now, Phils should be winning these games.

One thing that has to happen is Hamels has got to solve his issue with the Mets. He can shut out LA but can't solve Mike Pelfrey? I know there were lots of bleeders and bloopers last night, but this team seems to give him fits. Unacceptable for our ace.

[Zach Morris]

So many top-play lists!!! If only ESPN posted a daily list of all their lists for that day, we could finally put the issue of Werth's ranking on the list to bed.

[doubleh]

CJ: Well, I didn't see BBTN but I saw SportsCenter last night and they had Werth at #5 and Tatis at #2, so I guess they change them several times to appease the different fan bases?

[G-Town Dave]

I just checked the box score from last night's game, & I can't believe Beltran isn't going to be charged w/ an error. I really thought "further review" would result in a change in scoring. I'm all for Werth getting credit for hits & all, but that was a clear drop. I guess the umpiring crew weren't the only MLB employees having a bad game ...

[Mets fan]

Yes Beltran's play was clearly an error, a play he makes 99/100. I blame him for the game last night. Pelfrey still shoulda been pulled at that point, but the Phils wouldn't have scored 3 there if there was 1 out with the bottow of the order coming up.

Beltran is aggravating, an immensely talented player who plays with his head up his a$$ sometimes.

[craig_one]

ahhhh. and also for the record, i was referencing the 'sportscenter top plays' on the phillies espn page.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi

in context and execution, i thought werth's play was the better of the two, if we must compare. i dont mean to take anything away from tatis and also am decidedly biased.

rarely tune into the espn anymore, what with the internets ruling my life. i do, however, remember when sportscenter was actually good.

saw the phils @ the new yankee stadium and i;ll be making my first trip out to see citi field tonight. hope the game is half as entertaining/nerve-wracking as the first two.

[G-Town Dave]

Something To Ponder:

Is it entirely out of the question that the current Mets roster makes for a better team than did the roster w/ Reyes, Delgado, etc.? Yes, that is counter intuitive, but remember, all of the baseball talking heads thought the Phils would tank after the Abreu trade when in fact they ended up playing much better. Considering this Mets club is more solid overall than was that Phils club, I wouldn't at all be surprised if NY was benefiting from some "addition by subtraction" right about now.

[Kutztown Fan]

Quote from Celzic: "The Mets have been saved by Johan Santana, one of the best starters in the game. He’s one of two players who have kept the team within hailing distance of Philly. The other player is Phillies’ closer Brad Lidge, who has been almost as good at losing leads this season as he was at saving them last year. If Lidge were the unbeatable guy he was in 2008, the Mets would be out of it already."

[Andy]

phaithful:

Oh, Bako! Bako, because Ba - koooooo!

[Andy]

In re: the draft
The first two guys drafted by the Phils do not matter. The ones that matter are Colvin and Singleton. If they can sign those two it won't be an absolute waste.

[Tim from Williamsport]

Awesome game, I hate the Mets but they seem to be playing with some real intensity and fire this series. I think they are tired of being the Phillies doormat. Rubber match tonight with Moyer and Redding on the mound. I actually think the Mets might get this one just because Cy Redding is on the mound, they never hit this guy around.

[Andy]

In re: Paul "Just Dump that Stuff Out" Bako

It is the worst call up they've made in a long time. When they signed him I remember thinking "say it ain't so." Then I kept thinking it was to replace a minor leaguer going somewhere in a trade. Now I'm rubbing cream into the sore spot on my head caused by excessive scatching. Why do we have this guy up? Even Cairo, who brings ALMOST nothing to the team, brings more than Paul "Take It" Bako.

[Mets fan]

G-Town Dave: You can't deny chemistry, and the Yankees from the last decade prove that having the best player at every position doesn't win you championships. Still it's hard to say the Mets are better without Reyes and Delgado, a prolific leadoff and clean-up hitter. The Mets have no power this year and certainly miss Delgado's bat and despite how they've played, neither Cora nor Luis Castillo are legitimate leadoff hitters.

I think you are right from the point that those 2 guys represent parts of what are wrong with the Mets the last couple years: complacency, showing off, not always playing every out hard and in Delgado's case, not playing for a manager (Randolph).

Having stars injured allows others opportunities, like a chance to bring up Fernando Martinez or discover a guy like Omir Santos. Ultimately though, it gets to a point where you realize the backups aren't as good as the real players and can't sustain their little magical runs.

Basically, Reyes and Delgado can't come back soon enough. I've grown weary of watching a small-market lineup.

[ozark]

NY Post readers' responses to the game generally blame the Wilpons for the mess at Citi. They claim the Wilpons are cheap!
Back page of the Post: Choke Citi
Cute...

[JTS]

I was at the game last night, it was fine. Plenty of Phils fans in the "Promenade" level (aka Upper Deck). Things got a little testy a couple of times, including two real dick-head Met fans saying some inappropriate stuff about a Phils fan's date. Of course there were plenty of idiotic and glorious Phils supporters making a scene. All in all a fine stadium. I probably enjoyed myself a little more than New Yankee.

G-Town Dave: From my seat that Beltran play was DEFINITELY an error. I don't know if there are actually stats to support this (probably) but I feel like scorers are calling as few errors as humanly possible. You basically have to throw a ball out of play or kick it 10 yards to get charged with an E.

[adam]

Is redding a sinker ball pitcher? That would answer my question as to why the Phils can't seem to hit him.

[Baron von Hayes]

Mets fan, give me a freaking break. Stop with the Mets are just as good as the Phils this year, they are just injured. Or last year they were better b/c of h2h record (were the Mets "clearly" better than the Braves last year?). Or the year before they were better and just choked at the end. Just stop.

The Mets are a good team with a lot of talent. The Phils are a good team with a lot of talent. In 2007, we won the division. In 2008, we won the division and the world series. Right now, we're in first place. Until something changes we are "clearly" better, and you need to figure out a way to deal with that.

And, you know what, I grant that it could change this year. Maybe K-Rod and a healthy starting lineup is all you need to get over the hump. The Phils definitely do have their flaws. But until you get a different result you'll still be looking up, so stop with the if only, if only, if only. As the old saying goes, if my auntie only had bullocks.....

[krukker]

Quote from Mets fan:
Beltran is aggravating, an immensely talented player who plays with his head up his a$$ sometimes.

Sounds like Bobby Abreu.

[G-Town Dave]

Mets fan: I don't usually watch the Mets save for when they're playing Philly, so I can't really draw too many conclusions about their team. However, it seems to me those who were (& are) so quick to dismiss NY's season as "over" due to a couple of injuries are way off the mark.

I also don't buy into the "well, the Mets suck now, so the Phillies ought to beat up on them" argument. You're probably right that the magic won't last forever, but at least in the short term I'd expect the Mets to respond to their personnel losses by playing w/ more focus & intensity.

Certainly anyone expecting them to roll over & die just because Reyes &/or Delgado aren't in the lineup is bound to be disappointed (or pleasantly surprised, depending on what their rooting interest is).

[MG]

Keep hearing this notion of the Phils "not running away the NL East" because of Lidge, etc. Reality is that the offense (with some tremendous power) and fine glovework have covered up a very mediocre pitching staff.

Does anyone think the Phils are going to pull with a rotation of Hamels-Blanton-Moyer-Happ-Bastardo and a bullpen full of a couple shaky setup guys right now including Durbin, Park, and Taschner?

[G-Town Dave]

MG: The addition of Paul Bako to the roster will make up for all of that & then some.

[GBrettfan]

Todd Zolecki's blog on phillies.com has some interesting numbers comparing Phils to Mets. The Mets have a much better team BA than the Phils but much fewer HRS. According to one of the comments, the Mets also lead the NL in hitting with RISP. Todd's point was that the teams match up well.

[Baron von Hayes]

GTD - I actually like the way you put it, despite my excited response above. I think it's pretty remarkable how similarly talented these two teams keep ending up, and I really don't see either one fading until the end. The last two nights are probably representative of how competitive this race will remain. But living in NY, I find it hilarious how Mets fans continue to live in denial that their falling short is due to a lack of luck or bad fortune. I couldn't help jumping in.

[doubleh]

Some of the stats on Zolecki's blog:

Fielding percentage
Phillies: .991
Mets: .981

Errors
Phillies: 19
Mets: 41

Starter's ERA
Phillies: 5.29
Mets: 4.47

Bullpen ERA
Phillies: 3.52
Mets: 2.88

So even though the Mets have the better overall pitching to date, the errors are giving other teams lots of extra chances.
Since May 15, however, the Phillies have a 3.72 ERA, while the Mets have a 3.86 ERA

[Mets fan]

Baron: point taken, forget head to head. Based on the fact that the Phils edged out the Mets by A game in 07 and what 2 or 3 last year, I'd clearly say the Phils aren't clearly a better team, but just a slightly better team, but I clearly can see I won't change your opinion, which is fine.

[CJ]

The Mets are spending $140M this year. You don't spend that kind of money and then collapse when a couple of hitters go down. In fact, they had a beneficial "injury" when Perez went "down."

This will be a dog fight until the end.

[Baron von Hayes]

Mets fan, then it's semantics, and we'll agree to disagree. Clearly. All I'll say is that until something changes, I continue to like our chances. And if you think the Phillies aren't clearly better, then you should like the Mets chances this year as well. So do you?

[bay_area_phan]

"Even Cairo, who brings ALMOST nothing to the team, brings more than Paul "Take It" Bako."

I'm not so sure Cairo doesn't bring more than Bruntlett also.

[curt]

Our pitching is thoroughly mediocre. That is why even the Braves think they can win this year. Rube's going to spend the summer bringing new arms in, and needs to hit the jackpot more than once.

[AWH]

"The Mets have no power this year"

Mets fan, I'm not letting you get away with that one. I think the Mets have power, they just play in a joke of a pitcher's park.

To wit, that ball that Howard hit after Utley's HR in the 11th last night would have been out in EVERY other MLB ballpark. EVERY one. And by the look on his face he knew it too.

So, what does that mean?

Johan Santana will probably win the CY this season with and ERA of 1.95 and an ERA+ of 99.

Long term: While Bailout Park will certainly be an attractive place for FA pitchers to go, I wonder if the Mets aren't going to have to pay big premiums for FA hitters?

Seriously, if you're Matt Holliday why in the world would you go to a ballpark that's going to suppress your statistics the way that park does? He's already been somewhat exposed in Oakland and has said he would be OK with a trade. Any wonder why?

I, for one, thought the Mets had as good a shot at signing Ryan Howard as anyone when his contract expired. Unless the Wilpon pay him HUGE dollars I don't see that happening.

So, how will that ballpark affect the future competitiveness of the Mets? They may have to develop into a small ball type linup that doesn't play well in the smaller parks away from home.

It will be interesting.

[Mets fan]

I certainly like their chances for a playoff spot, but I certainly wouldn't put my money on them winning the division. The phils are way more fundamentally sound, specifically on defense and right now they have guys at every position who actually, play the position! The flip flopping of lineups, guys playing out of position, has grown tiresome as a Met fan and I'll certainly feel better about their chances when and if they get healthier (huge upside with Delgado, Reyes, Wagner, Putz coming back).

But like I mentioned earlier, I've always been a somewhat pessamistic, wait for the other shoe to drop Met fan, as i'M sure MANY of you felt about your team prior to September 2007. I'm never gonna stop rooting for my team and we all tell ourselves things have to turn around eventually, but no, I don't believe they will win the division from the state of things on June 11h.

Have a good day all, and looking forward to tonight.

[mm]

I think people are looking at Dugan the wrong way. He has a real nice swing, and granted, he didn't garner much attention until late before the draft but i think a lot of people stayed away because they didn't think he'd go in any of the early rounds, and if he didn't go in an early round, they figured he'd declined and go to college and try again in a couple of years.

Gillick had a lot to do with this, as apparently, Gillick went to the same HS. But once Gillick showed an interest, 6 or 7 other clubs did as well.

Maybe we overpaid, maybe we didn't. I'll worry about it when the kid is 22, because he's not gonna be anywhere near MLB ready until then anyways. He's got about 30 lbs of muscle to add first.

[Mets fan]

AWH: Sorry, but I'm not letting YOU get away with that one.

You couldn't be further from wrong

Met HR at Citi: 21
Met HR's everywhere else: 16

So explain to me how it's the Park's fault that they aren't hitting HR's?

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Dugan was also ranked by Baseball America at #76 overall...in CALIFORNIA.

I have some faith in the drafters/minor league system, so let's wish him luck and hope for the best.

[Mets fan]

further from *right*

[AWH]

Met's fan, what parks have they played in, and who were the pitchers?

What teams did they j=hit those HRs at Bailout Park off of? The Nats?

Also, what are the stats of opposing teams come in to Bailout Park? Do they hit less HR/G?

You can't just go by the Mets stats alone. For all you know, if they played in the Zen they'd have 50 HR at home.

I'll wager you this: The 7 HR the Phils/Mets hit in game one will not be surpassed for years.

[mm]

Beard: Yeah excactly. I have faith in this system as well, considering how they have consistently developed talent over the last 7-10 years. Also, this draft is skewed because we had to give up high picks, so if anyone from this draft pans out, it will be a good draft.

Plus first year sans arbuckle, who seems to have been behind a lot of the success, so let's see if it continues. Next year's draft will provide much more insight as to the strength of the scouting program than this years

[jkov]

i was at the game last night and the number of phillies fans was small compared to other previous series.

the fans that were there were pretty rowdy and reveling from the attention they received from mets fans.

2nd time at Citi Field, and its quite nice. good site lines, but there's definitely deficiencies. mainly the wait time at the center field concessions is ridiculous, and they're all in the same area which results in huge crowds.

anyone going tonight? I have 2 tickets, willing to sell for cheap in NYC. jkoven1@gmail.com

[Mets fan]

AWH: 57 games into a season seams to be a pretty good sample size.

So, by your logic, Raul Ibanez is not having a good power and hitting season, he might just happen to be playing against all bad pitchers in hitter friendly stadiums.

Did I get that right?

[lets go mets]

lets go mets we will beat you today ha ha. Raul Ibanez is on steriods.

[Raul Ibanez]

I'm not on steroids.

[shaseem kakuka]

All we have to do is stay close to the Phllies until Delgado and Reyes get back.

[AWH]

Mets fan, the Mets have played 28 at home, 29 on the road.

How many HRs have their pitchers given up home vs. away?

What teams were they playing?

I think we'll have to disagree. You see, I worry every time a Phils pitcher faces Wright, Sheffield, Beltran Churh or Reyes - and Delgado when he's in the lineup.

They all have pop.

[shaseem kakuka]

I don't care if they are not hitting home runs as long as the pitchers don't give them up either. Another reason their power numbers are down is because Delgado is out.

[BobbyD]

I think if you take the rivalry and emotion out of it, what you have with Phils vs. Mets is simply the current NL East team that the Phils don't match up well with. Phils could never beat the Marlins for no logical reason. And they even had trouble with the Nats/Expos when they should't have. Now, unfortunately it's the Mets.

[shaseem kakuka]

wrong we are better.what makes you better so much better the past 2 years you only won 4 more games than us.

[bay_area_phan]

BB: The drafters have done a good job when they have gotten away from their core strategy of drafting toolsy everyday players with no baseball skills. Drafting college everyday players has brought us guys like Utley, Howard, Burrell, Bourn, and Taylor. Drafting pitchers with good stuff has brought us Hamels, Myers, Wolf, Madson, Floyd, and Happ. And drafting toolsy everyday high school players has brought us guys like Golson, Hewitt, Mattair, Collier, Gose, Durant, and D'Arby Myers.

I have no problem with drafting guys like this, but not with your first couple of picks. And I find it ironic that the Phillies keep becoming more and more committed to this strategy with every draft, even while the vast majority of their top developing prospects are guys who did NOT fit within this pattern when they were drafted. It's also worth noting that the one "tools" guy who seems to be developing is Dominic Brown -- who wasn't picked until the 20th round. The lesson: these tools guys are real longshots, and you're just as likely to hit in the later rounds as in the earlier rounds. Early picks should be spent on pitchers, everyday college players or, at the very least, high school everyday players who already have demonstrated good strike zone management. It's a waste of an early pick to use it on a lottery ticket.

[CJ]

Here's an interesting post from a Mets fan on the bad strategy last night using Tatis to sac bunt late in the game with runners on first and second, nobody out. At the time, I thought it was a terrible decision and it ended up failing.

[Phils Suck]

Redding's success against the Phils reminds me of Burnett vs. the Red Sox.

Burnett was so coveted by the Yanks because he pitched extremely well against the Sox in Toronto, kind of like Redding Washington (on a much smaller scale, obviously.)

But when Burnett puts on the pinstripes and faces the Red Sox as a Yank, everything goes out the window.

I assume the same will be true for Redding as a Met.

And as far as the homeruns go, I think too much has been made of the Mets lack of power.

Before this series, the Mets had hit 34 and allowed 40, where as the Phils had hit 78 and allowed 81.

[shaseem kakkuka]

I will compare positon by position Howard is better than Delgado Utley is better then Castillo Reyes is better then rollins. Wright is better then Feliz.Ibanez is better then Sheffield.Beltran is better than Victorino.and I think it is about a tie between Werth and Church.Ruiz and shciender are both not that good. now here is the pitching Santana is better than Hamels.Pelfery is better than Blanton Maine is better than Moyer.Hernandez is better than Happ. and finally redding is better than Bastardo.

[Mets fan]

Mets pitchers yielding HR's:

Citi Field: 26
Road: 20

Was this the info you were looking for AWH?

The Mets have hit and given up more HR's at home. You can fear whomever you want-obviously the guys you listed can hit HR's, but as I mentioned before, they are a team with little power this season. Any other numbers you want?

p.s. Delgado had 4 HR's in 94 AB's this year.

[Iceman]

It appears the hold time on Mets morons after a stinging defeat is...*looking at the time of letsgomets' post*...about 14 hours?

[shaseem kakkuka]

p.s Delgado hit 38 home runs last year.and has 473 for his career your right no power.

[shaseem kakkuka]

lets go mets

[Mets fan]

If you think Worth and Church are equal you're not watching much baseball.

Ditto for Ruiz and Schneider.

[doubleh]

Mets fan: Delgado was also injured at the time--hip injuries sap power. See Utley, Chase 2008.

[shaseem kakkuka]

yes I am did you know before Church got hurt last year he was on pace for 33 home runs? and Werth is just taking advantage of a small stadium. if he was so good why was he a back up for a long time and out of baseball in 06?

[AWH]

""Early picks should be spent on pitchers, everyday college players or, at the very least, high school everyday players who already have demonstrated good strike zone management.""

bap, I would tend to agree with your point about pitchers.

I think, at least in one draft, the Braves, who have a pretty good track record, would agree also.

The year they drafted Tommy Hanson (2005), he was the 17th PITCHER they picked (22nd round) and 18 of their first 23 picks were on pitchers.

AAMOF, in 2004, 12 of the 1st 25 were pitchers. In 2003, 16 of the first 23, and in 2006, 23 of their first 31 picks were pitchers. It seems to be their philosophy.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

BAP: I basically agree.

I think Dom Brown slipped to 20th rd b/c it looked like he was going to U. of Miami to play WR so teams shied away from him.

Looks like they took an "Amaro" out of Penn Charter. Future GM.

[doubleh]

Werth had a wrist injury that almost ended his career, but he was a very promising prospect before his series of injuries. Werth has just as much power on the road, actually more. He has only 2 HRs at home and 6 on the road. He also hits .100 pts higher on the road.

[CY]

shas, try sprinkling in a few punctuation marks. Nothing too fancy, just enough to make you not seem like a moron.

[shaseem kakkuka]

Only 2 home runs CPB!!!!!!! I thought he was better than that My grandmother who is 93 can hit a home run to right field in CBP!

[Mets fan]

Who knew I'd be arguing against a Met fan here.

I admit the Mets and Manuel have screwed Church up both with how they handled his concussions and how Manuel wouldn't let him conistently play early in the yr when he was hitting .400

But the more I watch Church, the more I'm convinced he;s a 4th outfielder on a good team. You're projected numbers are nice, but has hit ever hit anywhere close to 33 hrs? The guy couldn't have come up smaller last September while Worth was getting big hits for Phi. Church is a nice player and good defensively, but overall I'd take Worth with no reservations.

[wally]

Would anyone really begrudge Santana a Cy Young this year, considering how badly he's been jobbed 3-4 times in the last five years?

[shaseem kakkuka]

He never could hit alot of home runs because the old Nationals stadium was huge.he also played for a bad team.

[AWH]

"obviously the guys you listed can hit HR's, but as I mentioned before, they are a team with little power this season."

Umm, Mets fan, you DO understand the contradiction in the sentence above, no?

[That Dude]

you guys gotta get over this...we were the second lead story on the 11pm sportscenter. WHat do you want?

[bay_area_phan]

shasheem: Even within the sub-population of Mets trolls, your posts are moronic.

Werth was out of baseball in 2006 because he was injured. And, oh, by the way, his 2008 road stats were far better than his home stats, including his homerun totals and slugging pct. But I'm sure Ryan Church would have gone on to hit those 33 homeruns if he hadn't gotten injured. He has such a strong track record of being a 30-homerun guy and his incredible power numbers this year are indisputable evidence that his 33-homerun pace was permanent and lasting.

[AWH]

"The guy couldn't have come up smaller last September"

Umm, Mets fan, don't blame me, but you left yourself open with the comment above.

With a couple of exceptions, it pretty much describe the Mets.

(And, baseball gods forgive me because I don't think it's nice to rub it in, I'm a phils fan, after all, and rubbing it in is bad kharma and gives me bad flashbacks but......................)

[shaseem kakkuka]

lets see no power I will use the last four years. David Wright 26 30 33 Hr 4. Beltran06 41 33 27 8 HR Delgado 38 24 38 4 Hr. Now you dont think that something is up why is it down this year maybe it is the stadium. no it can't be they just got weaker this year

[bay_area_phan]

Beerleaguer has reached a new low today. Are we really having a debate over whether Ryan Church has 30-homerun power? How about a new topic of debate: Is the earth round? Support your argument.

[shaseem kakkuka]

he was hurt all year do you expect someone who missed about 3 months to come back and do great?

[CJ]

Apparently all the Mets were on steroids prior to this season.

I think that's really the only logical explanation.

[shaseem kakkuka]

LOL

[shaseem kakkuka]

Did you see his home run? right in the apple that is power.

[shaseem kakkuka]

So you are blaming church for a bad september? the real reason was the bullpen. you can't win when the bull pen is that bad

[shaseem kakkuka]

where did everyone go? is it because I proves you wrong ha ha.

[shaseem kakkuka]

I win ha ha ha. I have so much baseball knowledge you don't know what to say. ha ha ha

[shaseem kakkuka]

My work here is done. I have to go

[Bubba]

I keep hitting my remote but all I get on BeerLeaguer is the Mets channel!
Must be something wrong with my computer... Gotta call the help desk.

[dmg]

Mets fan here,

Can't wait for tonight!! I'll reiterate, who cares about whats going on in Fenway. The Best rivalry in the bigs right here. The 24 regular season games(08-09) have been amongst the most competitive, why we love baseball so much, games that I can recall in almost a decade. Werth continues to astound me with his defense, and the Mets are fighting tooth and nail to hang with that lineup!!! We need to get to you crafty lefty Moyer, cause I have no faith in Redding yet!!!!

[JB]

The only way this rivalry will get the publicity of the Red Six/Yankees is if there is an all-out brawl in one of the games. That will solidify it and I would love to see it especially if Charlie gets shoved to the ground like Don Zimmer.

[clout]

Andy: In re: Draft. You are 100% correct.