Beer nuts: Mayberry striking out at absurd rate

Averaging 117 strikeouts over the last three seasons, minor league numbers have supplied a spot-on forecast for John Mayberry.

Besides making contact with a baseball, there's a lot to like about young Mayberry: he's tall, quick, strong, with good range and a powerful arm. And that's about it for now. In 53 plate appearances, the 25-year-old outfielder has whiffed a ludicrous 20 times and is hitless in his last 12 at bats, falling to .180/.226/.460. With Raul Ibanez back, Mayberry's chances have been reduced to defensive caddy and spot starter. The fact that the Phillies are willing to carry him, despite appearing to be over-matched at this stage, suggests they believe his value to this team is as a role player, and I'd agree with that. Keep him here, no matter how badly he struggles. Perhaps in the long-term, he could develop into a productive player, following the same path as someone like big, tall Jayson Werth, for example, who didn't become a full-time player until this season at age 30. Werth, at 25, was in Toronto and about to be shipped to Los Angeles for a reliever.

And speaking of strikeouts, 18 in 77 plate appearances is too many for someone like Eric Bruntlett, too. At the very least, a player in his role should be making better contact, but I'm preaching to the choir on that one.

Comments

[J.R. King]

I hadn't realized Bruntlett couldn't hit. Maybe people on this board should discuss it. Perhaps a fan from the Bay Area.

[Kutztown Fan]

Thanks for the new topic, Jason. The Halladay discussions/fights are dead-horse-beating at their finest.

My two cents - I'd much rather have Mayberry at the plate instead of Bruntlett for reasons often mentione on BL. At least we have a chance of an HR with Mayberry. And if he strikes out, at least he didn't hit into a double play.

[MG]

JR - That's not the point though. I didn't think the Phils would have a positional player put on a uniform who was as inept as Nunez was. '09 Bruntlett is actually worse than '06-'07 Nunez. In fact, the only advantage that Bruntlett has is that he can play more positions (although generally with below average defense) and is a bit faster than No-Hit.

Otherwise they are completely inept besides the occasional BB and arguably the worst offensive players in MLB during those seasons. It wouldn't be a big deal but the Phils used both '06-'07 Nunez and '09 Bruntlett much more than you common back up utility INF.

[doubleh]

At what point do Brutlett's ability to at least competently play multiple positions become outweighed by his alarming inability to hit the ball?

[CJ]

Keep Mayberry with the big club. At least he represents a threat of a big fly in a pinch hit opportunity vs. a lefty. Let him learn about hitting from a someone who seems to know a lot about it: Charlie Manuel. And then send him to winter ball.

Then let's see where he is going into 2010.

[MG]

I don't think the Phils are going to put much money at all into fixing this problem though and likely not going to trade a real prospect to address it. All signs point to an August post-deadline trade for an aging veteran right-handed bat.

They might end up with a Stairs-type again but it will probably be closer to what Conine gave them in '06. Still, even that would be a big improvement over Bruntlett/Mayberry/Bako.

[Len39]

I think you hit the nail on the head on Bruntlet, who is a waste of a roster spot at this point. He's not even average in any area that he's called on to do- utility IF, righthanded PH, corner OF, pinch runner. Mayberry at least will play some defense and there is always a chance he'll knock one out of the park. The Bruntlet spot on the roster definitely needs an upgrade. If we are going to spend $1 million on Pedro, they could get a guy for $1 million for take Bruntlet's spot.

[doubleh]

That should say, "at what point does". It's been a long week. Even though I had off Monday...

[philsphan]

I say we DFA Bruntlett and pick up Lugo for the minimum once he clears waivers. I don't think the Red Sox will be able to trade him since any teams who would want him know they can have him for even less if they wait for the Red Sox to release him. If the Phillies released Jenkins (who I am shocked didn't land anywhere for the ML minimum) than they should definitely release Bruntlett despite his contributions in 08.

Walker was decent and a good right hander as the last guy in the bullpen but his era was deceptively low since he allowed 7 of 10 inherited runners to score. A healthy Condrey is an upgrade but I hope Walker can be stashed in AAA since he is a better option than say, Taschner. If we need a lefty call up Escalona and if we need a righty call up Walker.

[J.R. King]

MG: I was joking. I see your point and I raise another. There are plenty of bakcup infielders who can hit better than the gnome. A world champion team with a $135 Million payroll should not waste a roster space on him.

Bruntlett No. 1 job is to hit. I know the Phils see him as the only guy who can fill in for Rollins, but he's one bat on a 5-man bench. Therefore, he'll be called on to hit A LOT more than he'll be called on to play short. Get two players who can hit from the right side: one outfielder and one infielder. How hard could that be? They found two OUTSTANDING lefthanded bench players. Can't they find two COMPETENT righthanders?

[Dan]

Not really a fan of Mayberry. Old story, athletic guy who doesn't put it all together. There's that whole "Yeah, but if he DOES put it together, watch out!" side of things. I just think if he hasn't done it yet, he ain't gonna.

[CJ]

So both Jayson Stark and Peter Gammons on Mike and Mike in the Morning are saying that the Phils are the likely landing spot for Halladay. And, like we've all said many times, it will all come down to the price.

Has there been a recent deadline star like this where the Phils were the consensus front runners?

[clout]

You all are gonna be sorry when mvptommy sees this thread.

[thephaithful]

i say we shoot bruntlett outbehind the holiday inn

[CJ]

Dan: You mean if he hasn't done it in his first 53 plate appearances, it's not going to happen?

Wow.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

I figured this thread was started to keep mvptommy away.

[AWH]

HH, don't worry, we understand.

Besides, the topic you're discussing is Bruntlett, so it was very appropo.

To wit, Bruntlett "does" nothing very well, even if he "do" play several positions.

Julio Lugo is available and would seem to be an upgrade. Is he a bad guy - clubhouse cancer?

If not, Jr. really needs to look into "making a small splash" with the Bosox.

If what Rosenthal says is correct, that they'll take even a 'fringe' prospect for Lugo, then maybe Ruben needs to get togather with Marty and decide who to offer.

Hey Theo, how about Kevin Mahar?

[thephaithful]

offtopic: A little light reading on the worst pitching staff in history of baseball.

1930 Phillies

[AWH]

clout, so true....so true!

[denny b.]

Excellent posts today Mr. Weitzel.

I am in total agreement with two of your
"opinion" pieces today (also agree with your prospect piece).

Mayberry needs to stay, IMO. He is going to strike out. He is going to look overmatched at times. But I think (as Cholly seems to as well) that the payoff in the end and the POTENTIAL (which is a dangerous word) he has if/when he "gets it" at the major league level, is one worth taking a flyer on and going through the growing pains with.

Lets face it. RFD (and much of the bench) aren't super important to winning/losing with this team. Cholly likes to ride the starters and that has worked well. I think anything you can get from RFD offensively is just gravy right now. As long as he is used to spell Ibanez and keep him healthy/fresh for September and October, that is the most important thing. Its about Ibanez and not RFD. And if you get into a late inning situation against a lefty (like Mike Gonzalez, for example) you bring him up as your righty pinch-hitter. At least he has a chance of doing something positive.

I still think RFD needs to get more aggressive at the plate. To me, he looks like he is just hoping to get ahead in the count and letting too many good pitches early in the count, go without swinging. Last night he got a fat pitch right away and took it. He needs to learn as a pinch-hitter or late inning guy, you need to be aggressive and get after early count pitches when pitchers are just trying to get ahead with less-then-their-best stuff. Wait until 2 strikes and you have little chance against anyone decent.

I like his bat speed. I like his raw power to all fields. He just needs to put the ball in play and good things will happen.

Really not much different then Howard in that regard.

Sorry to see Walker go. Seemed like a good dude too. I don't see much difference in Condrey or Walker, but understand why Clay was kept. I would be surprised if Walker isn't picked up by somebody. He can still pitch in the major leagues.

[AWH]

Jason, in 2003 Jason Werth wiffed 22 times in 52 PA, very similar numbers to Mayberry.

He hit just .208.

The next season Werth turned it around in LA, though he still wiffed a fair amount.

[JBird]

Couple Phillies Prospects show up on Baseball America's Hot Sheet today: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2009/268574.html

[Dan]

CJ, I read all about his minor league numbers. You may read them here unless you think players only relevant history is ML history: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3390&position=OF

Maybe he'll wind up being a right handed Ryan Howard and we'll be able to live with the total lack of consistent contact and walks. His number don't suggest to me someone who will be able to succeed on the ML level. I could be wrong, of course, but at his age, he'll have to prove me wrong pretty quickly.

[MG]

denny b - Agreed on Walker. His stuff was just about as good as Condrey (maybe a bit less control) and it would surprise me too if another team didn't scoop him up right away given the lack of decent bullpen arms in MLB.

[clout]

thephaithphul: Good link. I wonder where the Allentown Buffalos ballpark was.

[CJ]

Dan: I'm familiar with his minor league numbers.

In Mayberry's age 24 season in AAA, he posted an OPS of 790.

In Werth's age 24 season in AAA, he posted an OPS of .726.

And, as pointed out before, Werth whiffed 22 times in 51 plate appearances in 2003 with the Blue Jays.

I'm just saying it's kinda dumb to give up on a guy after a handful of plate appearancs.

Mayberry may prove to be ineffective in even a part-time role. But to suggest it's a given already is a little premature.

[sneed]

It would be nice to have a more consistent pinch hitting, right handed bat off the bench, but on the whole you have to give Mayberry a chance at this point. He can serve as a pinch runner and defensive replacement, and it is surely better to get him some experience now before the playoffs than waiting until October and throwing him into the fire.

We need to be patient with Mayberry. He's a good athlete with power. Even though corner outfield is not a typically important defensive position, he projects as an above average defensive player with pop. I don't know that he can or can't be anything, but over the past few years our coaching staff has done a nice job with some reclamation projects, as well as improving some of our home grown talent. We've had too much internal improvement to consider it coincidence. I'd like to see what they do with Mayberry.

[G-Town Dave]

That the Phillies continue to keep Mayberry in the Majors despite his K rate, often confusing (& sometimes borderline lazy defense), & utter uselessness vs. RH pitching says a lot about both the FO & the other RH "bat" on the bench (read: Gnome). It's no secret I'm not nearly as sold on RFD as some Beerleaguers, but that shouldn't be interpreted as an indictment of his potential. Mostly I think Mayberry has no business being w/ the big club yet, & could benefit greatly from regular ABs in the Minors. While all of the focus on the Phillies lately has gone to starting pitching, I'm still baffled as to why Rube hasn't done f*ck all to address the one aspect of the team that has absolutely sucked from Day 1, & shows no signs of improving on its own: RH hitting bench options.

[CJ]

G-Town Dave: Perhaps it's because that RH bench option hasn't exactly been an obstacle to building the second biggest division lead in all of baseball and that Ruben Amaro realizes that the opportunity to pick up a helful bench bat increases significantly around trade deadline time.

But far be it from me to suggest that a General Manager might know just a little bit more than some random dudes at their computer.

[G-Town Dave]

CJ: Sure, that's possible ... or he's just a dumbass. Jury's still out on that one. And before we get too full of ourselves, let's not forget that the NL East is one of the worst divisions in baseball.

[Pete Happy]

The problem with the gnumbers for the gnome is not that he has 18 strikeouts, its that SOMEONE HAS LET HIM HAVE 77 PLATE APPEARANCES!

[Jimmie J.]

Haven't look hard at the Toronto roster but who can the Jays add with Halladay to upgrade our IF/OF bench?

[CJ]

G-Town Dave: Right... and how, exactly, has Amaro determined to be a dumbass?

It's not just that we lead our division. We have the 2nd best record in the National League and the 5th best record in all of baseball.

His offseason moves?
Signing Ibanez. Seems to have worked out pretty well.
Trading Golson for Mayberry. Seems to have worked out pretty well.
Extending many of our young stars like Hamels, Howard and Madson even though everyone said it wasn't possible. Seems to have worked out pretty well.

Ah, but G-Town Dave thinks he's a dumbass. Fair enough.

[G-Town Dave]

Jimmie J: Vernon Wells

/sick joke

[Brian G]

Who/what is RFD? I think I missed something.

[G-Town Dave]

CJ: I didn't say he was, I said the jury's still out.

[CJ]

G-Town Dave: Well, go ahead and make all Philadelphia sports fans proud by assuming he is.

[EastFallowfield]

Mayberry RFD.

[G-Town Dave]

CJ: I didn't make any assumptions, either. Merely offering another possible reason why our GM hasn't even attempted to address the most consistently glaring deficiency on the team. Clearly you disagree as to the need. Oh well; you're perfectly free to do so. *shrug*

[thephaithful]

thanks EFF, i was also clueless about the RFD reference.

My friends think I am some weirdo because I have all these nicknames and terms that I throw out about the Phils, because I pick up all the lingo on this site and then forget who I am talking to when when getting into debates, hah.

[NEPP]

So, how do you not make a move for Lugo at this point? His skillset is perfect for our bench if he only costs $400K.

I have to think Rube knows this, right?

He's RH, can play SS, 2B, and LF (not well but passable at all 3) and hits LHP fairly well for a bench guy. His problem in Boston (and I watch a ton of Boston games) was his salary and that he was a starter at SS after guys like Nomar and O. Cabrera.

[EastFallowfield]

Yo, new thread