Game chat: Phillies try to maintain pace in NL East

The second-place Marlins completed a sweep of the Nationals today, while the Mets shutout the Brewers 1-0 behind Mike Pelfrey. The Phils turn to Cole Hamels tonight as their series continues in Atlanta. Jair Jurrjens goes for the Braves. 

Comments

[thephaithful]

guess im not too upset about lopez getting the call up, although i was excited to see CC finally.

Probably the best thing Burrell ever did in his career with the Phils, that and the double in the WS.

[bay_area_phan]

"CC has the talent and has been pitching as well as anyone in AAA the past month."

Denny and I are usually of like mind, but this just isn't true. Carraso's June ERA was 4.06. Lopez's June ERA was more than 2 full runs better --- at 2.03. If anyone has a case for being upset, it's Carpenter, whose June ERA was 1.87. Basically, Carrasco's recent "hot streak" comes down to 2 good games.

[Corey R]

Wouldn't even be close in the East had we not had the bad injuries and the streak of unbearable loses.

[MG]

I am kind of curious to see why Amaro didn't call up Carrasco (trade value, confidence, etc) but it basically came down to Lopez or Carpenter then. I would roll the dice on Lopez too on a few starts before the ASB.

Mets aren't hitting anyone recently and I bet that Lopez gives them a decent enough outing to win on Friday night (say 5+ and 3 runs).

[clout]

BAP: "Basically, Carrasco's recent "hot streak" comes down to 2 good games."

Carrasco's last 7 starts
date opp. IP ER BB K
May 24 DURH 6.2 2 2 8
May 29 ROCH 7.0 2 2 6
Jun 04 @IND 6.1 2 2 5
Jun 09 @LOU 5.0 6 2 4
Jun 15 @DUR 6.1 4 1 5
Jun 20 @NOR 7.0 1 2 5
Jun 26 IND 6.1 1 3 7

[thephaithful]

MG: The Mets haven't scored 3 runs in 5 innings in 7 out of their last 9 games. 5IP and 3 runs vs the Mets right now would be a disappointment.

[thephaithful]

actually.. the Mets havent scored 3runs in 5 innings in their 7 games, and 8 out their last 10.

[J.R. King]

Question: If Amaro can't make a trade for a frontline starter, who in the organization is the backup plan? Whomever that it, he should get the two starts before the All-Star Break to see what they have.

If they want a guy who can make 2 starts and keep them in games so they can stay atop the East, that guy is Andrew Carpenter, Lehigh Valley's best starter.

If they want a guy who has enough "stuff" to catch fire and has enough of an arm to last until the playoffs, I figure that guy is Carlos Carrasco. The only way Lopez makes sense to me is if the Phils scouts disagree with my (admitidly uninformed) opinion and think Lopez is a better backup plan than CC.

[bay_area_phan]

clout: That all adds up to a decent, but hardly spectacular, 3.63 ERA.

[MG]

thephaithful - Yeah but I bet Lopez give up a HR at some point during his outing on Friday even if the Mets have been showing much in the power department lately.

[thephaithful]

5 runs in over 42IP is a 3.63?

[curt]

The Phils are obviously afraid to find out whether Carrasco could possibly upgrade this miserable staff. For his part, I'm sure the kid is thrilled to be passed over for a series of "hot hands", stiffs, and washouts.

[bay_area_phan]

Oh brother. Rollins leading off again and Paul Bako starting at catcher.

[philsphan]

I would have rather seen Carrasco or Carpenter than Lopez, but I'd rather see Lopez than Kendrick.

[MG]

Jurrjens numbers really improve after the 1st inning this year (as they have in his career), he is tough to HR against (2 in 8 GS at Turner Field), and he really has done a good job of buckling down in situations with RISP.

Hitters have had success though swinging on the first pitch against him (.343 BA) and really hurt him when he has been behind in the count (2-1 or 3-1).

I actually hope that JRoll comes out swinging tonight on the first pitch and that the Phils are aggressive in the first inning in swinging at first pitch fastball form Jurrjens.

[NEPP]

"Hi, I'm Ruben Amaro. I deliberately make the unorthodox move to make myself look innovative as a new GM. I call up Paul Bako, use 3 catchers, refuse to address issues like a 4th OF or a RH bat. I bring up guys like Kyle Kendrick to help the BP when he's supposed to be working on secondary pitches. I promised Chan Ho Park he could be a starter and gave him $2.5 million with incentives when he should have gotten a minor-league invite."

[denny b.]

CC's peripheals are stout. Yes, the ERA in the last month, does not show a pitcher "pitching as well as anyone in AAA". But, the stuff has been there.

40 K's and 14 BB's since late May.

His 2 starts against Indy, saw him take shutouts into the 7th inning of each game. Those lines don't look anything, like he actually pitched. The first game in Indy, he was consistantly hitting 95 and 96 MPH on the gun and was completely over-matching their hitters.

He has pitched far better and his stuff has been far better, then the stats say.

Carpenter has actually pitched better. If it was truly on merit and who was pitching the best, Carpenter should get the nod.

If it was about potential and who's stuff will translate best to the majors, Carrasco should get the nod.

If its about the safe pick and who has big league experience and who's ceiling for success is the least, its Lopez.

Comes down to this with me... Who is the pitcher who has the best POTENTIAL to be a difference-maker? Who is the pitcher who can miss the most bats and be filthy, when on his game?

That is Carrasco.

Could he bomb? Sure. Anyone they brought up could have. But, I still harken back to when he got promoted to AAA last year. He was dominant, on a pitiful team. He took the challenge and ran with it. I think he could have done the same here.

Maybe next time.

[NEPP]

So if Lopez bombs, will Mazone finally get a shot? Are there any ballgirls that have had a hot couple weeks in Lehigh that can start over Carrasco??

[denny b.]

NEPP, your 4th OF, hit his 4th HR last night to tie the game in the 8th inning.

He addressed the issue in the off-season. He and Cholly just need to TRUST the kid and let him be the 4th OF, for the rest of the season.

That will be his role (for a while) in the bigs anyway. Let him run with it.

As for Carrasco, I have been touting him heavily tonight. I hope he doesn't go out and pitch poorly tonight, just to make me look bad.

Kid has to feel down. Hope he keeps his chin up and keeps mowing them down in AAA.

Both he and Drabek pitching tonight. Can't do much better than that.

[MG]

I would be stunned if the Phils consider Lopez any more than a temporary band-aid solution until the ASB. If he pitches well in a few starts, then they might keep in the rotation out of real lack of alternatives until they make a move at the end of this month for a starter. I would be stunned if they didn't acquire another starting pitcher.

[bay_area_phan]

phaithful: clout's columns didn't come out very well in the Beerleaguer post. It's 18 earned runs in 44.2 innings. I think you're adding the numbers after the decimal points in the IP column.

[NEPP]

****NEPP, your 4th OF, hit his 4th HR last night to tie the game in the 8th inning.****

And it took multiple injuries for them to even call him up...Amaro was content to use Bruntlett and Cairo off the bench instead.

[NEPP]

On Jimmy, should we consider a groundout an improvement over striking out and/or popping out?

.207 avg now. Keep up the good work buddy.

[denny b.]

Another mistake from yours truly...

LV is not playing tonight. Carrasco will be pitching tomorrow against Syracuse.

E-Me

J-Roll is hitting a hard .207

[kilbillrain]

How long will Jimmy hit at/below the Mendoza before he becomes unselfish and realizes for the sake of the team he should move to 6 or below? Same question for soft Uncle Charlie.

[NEPP]

"I'm a leadoff hitter".

[burt]

Jimmy just needs 10 more hitless AB's to hit the Mendoza Line. By the way, Bruntlett is at .136--can we call .150 the Bruntlett Line?

[redbeard]

looked like jimmy was using a new ba

[redbeard]

*bat

[curt]

Braves announcer just saying Seattle may want Dobbs to play 3B...sounds like the basis for a deal.

[NEPP]

That was on MLBTradeRumors earlier today...some Seattle sportswriter brought up a Miguel Batista/Greg Dobbs swap to help out both clubs.

[bay_area_phan]

Eyre was none too stellar at AA tonight. .2 innings, 3 hits, 1 run, 1 walk. Drabek had to come in and pitch the last .1 inning to bail him out.

In the same game, Taylor is already 1 for 1.

[NEPP]

Yeah, but BAP, when I look at that 1 for 1 and that .350+ avg, I also look at...

~pulls BS list out~

3 years of stats, heart, intangibles, how he wears his hat, are his socks pulled up, does he know how to correctly use your vs. you're as well as effect and affect. All these things come into play when grading a prospect.

[mm]

So Francoeur to the Braves is what Burrell was to the phillies? Or is that Unfair to Burrell?

[NEPP]

Burrell actually has/had very good OBP skills.

[clout]

BAP: My point was that in 5 of his last 7 starts, Carrasco has allowed 2 or fewer runs while going more than 6 innings.

[MyersAtTheBat]

hip hip hooray!!!

[denny b.]

"That was on MLBTradeRumors earlier today...some Seattle sportswriter brought up a Miguel Batista/Greg Dobbs swap to help out both clubs."

That would be an asinine deal for the Phils.

No thanks.

[G-Town Dave]

HOLY F*CK -- Jimmy walked!!! :-o

[redbeard]

nice steal

[MG]

Franceour is a hacker and I don't understand after 3 full years as a starter (this is his 4th year) that he is "still learning."

Occasionally it happens but hard to believe that his plate discipline/patience will improve much at all at this point in his career.

[NEPP]

"I've got 100 pairs of these gloves...one for every base I'm gonna steal."

[G-Town Dave]

And if the Phillies trade Dobbs (for anyone save, say, Tim Lincecum or the like -- which obviously ain't gonna happen), it would be a terribly short-sighted move & I would be very unhappy.

[NEPP]

****That would be an asinine deal for the Phils.

No thanks. ****

Well, I'm sure Seattle would go for it...especially if we picked up the salary for Batista (or is it Bautista?). Personally, I wouldn't.

[mm]

Well tonight may come down to who has the better bullpen tonight. And lately, that's not a scenario i really want to see play out.

[Highland]

It is official: .150 is the Bruntlett Line

[TK]

Thanks, Cole.

[NEPP]

Martin Prado is a 1st ballot HOF.

[kart racer]

This sucks.

[mm]

Well f this game.

[bay_area_phan]

Hamels just isn't fooling hitters this year. The lack of a third pitch may finally be catching up with him.

[Kool Earl]

Way to go ace. The Phils arent going to get this deficit back of Jurrjens. For a #1 pitcher it sure seems like the other guys pitches better than him.

[G-Town Dave]

Hamels has been a joke all year. I'm thoroughly sick of watching him unravel in game after game after game ... man the f*ck up already, pretty boy.

[TK]

When did Cole Hamels get the composure of Brett Myers?

[NEPP]

Hamels is having a WS hangover. It happens to a lot of pitchers that throw as much as he did last year.

Long term, I'm not too concerned but this season might be a wash for him (like Beckett last year or Buehle in 2006)

[bay_area_phan]

And Drabek is getting pounded tonight too.

[eclipse]

Rescheduled Hamel to get more win before Allstar. Was it a good idea?

[NEPP]

BAP, if Hamels isn't fooling hitters, why has his K/9 gone up from last year?

Its a WS hangover effect, nothing more. It happens, I even said it would in the off-season. I'm actually surprised that people are even surprised by it.

[Brian G]

"man the f*ck up already, pretty boy."

You mean like when he had a 1.8 ERA in 5 playoff starts, pushing his inning total over 260 last year in leading us to the WS?

Like J-Roll said, city of frontrunners.

[MG]

Hamels hasn't had the same velocity on his fastball either. Last year by this point, he was 93-94 MPH. Tonight it seems like he has been 89-91 MPH instead.

[NEPP]

The turn on Hamels is surprising. Considering he should never have to buy a drink in Philly for the rest of his life and he's getting continually thrown under the bus by people.

[G-Town Dave]

Brian G: Last season has absolutely NO BEARING on this season. The moment, as they say, is over.

[NEPP]

Hamels FB velocity:

2007 - 90.4
2008 - 90.4
2009 - 90.0

Huh?

[MG]

Brian G - Hamels was pouting out there tonight on the mound looking for a call from CB Buckner's ever-moving strike zone. Not the first time it has happened this year either.

[curt]

A few things have to start happening real soon for us to keep competing in the East. One of them is Hamels has to start going 7 strong. We've already got a busload of 5 inning guys.

[bigmyc]

As soon as Jurjens got his flare hit...I knew it would be a disaster inning.

Well, that's '09 for ya.

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

Cole looks good tonight.

What is that, five swinging strikes in fifteen batters faced?

[NEPP]

To G-Town: Are you serious? Last season means nothing to you now that he's had a rough couple months?

Hell, Beckett went from probably the top pitcher in the AL in 2007 to a average 4's ERA last year...Buerhle led his team to a WS and posted a 4.99 ERA the next year. The guy threw from March to late Oct without a break at a high level and there is a lasting effect on that...it happens, get over it.

[MG]

NEPP - Meant he would dial it up when needed. He just doesn't seem to have in the tank this year.

[NEPP]

No, not really. Nothing we can do but hope he bounces back next year. He's likely not gonna gain velocity as the season goes on. He's been plateaued at his current speed since early May now.

[bigmyc]

As bad as the Phils are playin', it might not be all their doing... The Bravos got two pitchers hit last night with comebackers and both eventually became an assist en route to a put out.

Tonight; Hamels gets smashed with one and it goes between two fielders.

Of course.

[G-Town Dave]

NEPP: What I mean is that Hamels is no more immune from criticism for the way he's playing this year than Lidge, or J-Roll, or Moyer, or anyone else on the team. None of the others have been spared due to the WFC, & rightfully so. Cole is no different.

[bay_area_phan]

NEPP: Obviously, he can still fool batters if they guess wrong. But what I'm seeing in far too many games is that he gets 2 strikes and then the hitter just fouls balls off until he gets a good pitch to hit. A .303 BAA is not the sign of someone who is fooling hitters.

It would help him immensely if he had another look besides the fast ball and changeup. But he very rarely throws his curve, even though it's actually a decent pitch.

[NEPP]

I can't do it G-Town. They won a WS and I will always give them that. Thus, I'm not nearly as pissed about things this year as I was last year when we struggled. I'd honestly rather see them play for 2010 than sell it all the repeat this year. I don't think they will repeat no matter what trade they make. We are beat up from a long 2008 season and the pitching just isn't there this year...too many nagging injuries.

[MG]

Phils have had some chances tonight and just haven't converted. Not taking advantage of Jurrjens early charity is kind of frustrating.

[NEPP]

Am I the only one that thinks Dubee is a bit overrated as a pitching coach? I mean, he gets tons of praise from people but I don't see it. Moyer probably does more than him and he's not even close to a Dave Duncan/Mike Maddox level of coach.

[J.R. King]

Nice job by Dobbs to get the run home. Now Hamels needs to mow down 7-8-9 and get a shutdown inning.

[eclipse]

Hell, Beckett went from probably the top pitcher in the AL in 2007 to a average 4's ERA last year...Buerhle led his team to a WS and posted a 4.99 ERA the next year. The guy threw from March to late Oct without a break at a high level and there is a lasting effect on that...it happens, get over it.

NEPP: none of mentioned pitchers had back-to-back WS win. Is this also WS effect?

[Brian G]

G-town: Actually, it does have a bearing on this season, since the physical toll could be affecting him.
As NEPP pointed out, let's look at some of the beter pitchers for WS winners.
2004: Schilling was horrible and injured in '05 before bouncing back after that.
2005: Buerhle, 2006 he's awful but bounces back since
2006: Chris Carpenter throws 21 innings the following two years.
2007: Beckett, injured and not his normal self last year.

And when a guy wins a city its first championship in 25 years, you usually wait more than 3 months before calling him a pussy.

[redbeard]

6 4 3, slick jimmy

[G-Town Dave]

"I'd honestly rather see them play for 2010 than sell it all the repeat this year. I don't think they will repeat no matter what trade they make."

Well, I completely agree w/ you there. Still, I can't abide lack of preparation for the season (self-admitted by Hamels) and (especially) his continued propensity to lose his composure when the umpiring is not to his liking. Everybody knows the umpiring in MLB sucks. Cole needs to get over it & try to adapt -- in other words, act like an ace.

Sweet play by Jimmy & Chase!

[Hope SE]

LA: Taylor is so far over the competition's head there in AA it is ridiculous.

[doubleh]

NEPP: I'm with you. The Phils aren't going to repeat for a myriad of reasons, not just Cole. At this point, a trade won't even help IMO. It may win the division, but it doesn't look like this division is all that good, so it's like being the prettiest Chinese crested dog in the pageant.

[NEPP]

to eclipse: Its very, very hard to repeat in modern baseball. Its a testament to just how good those Yankees teams were that they had that run in the late 90s.

To Brian G: Yup, that about sums it up. The guy has one of the best Postseason runs in history and he's being ripped mercilessly here.

[MG]

NEPP - Dubee supposedly didn't have much of a reputation in Philly. I guess it is really hard to evaluate the merits of a pitching coach (kind of like a hitting coach) but it is kind of odd how Dubee has basically been largely MIA since spring training while he was generally heard from last year quite frequently.

Phils also hired that guy who was a former pitching coach as a "roving instructor" about a month ago. While Cholly seems to be a big Dubee fan, you have to wonder if other Phils' brass share the same opinion including Amaro.

If the Phils do miss the playoffs this year and their pitching staff continues to be so bad, I wouldn't be shocked if they made Dubee a partial scapegoat and can him this offseason.

[MG]

There is a difference between ripping Hamels for his performance and for his pouting on the mound out there. Not a good sign when your ace is losing his cool over some non-calls by Bucknor.

[J.R. King]

This is the Daily News Homerun Payoff Inning. Due up: Bako, Hamels, and Rollins. Everyone get ready for your Phillies fan packs.

[EastFallowfield]

Maybe the Verducci effect predicted for Hamels has come true somewhat?

Hamels had the best postseason starting pitching performance in our history. Closest he came to a loss was a rain-tainted no decision in the WFS.

I'm gonna cut him a little bit of slack til, say, mid-July.

[bay_area_phan]

NEPP/Brian G.: Sorry, I part company with those who think that being a World Series hero entitles a player to permanent immunity from criticism. Hamels has flat-out stunk this year. He is our supposed ace, yet his ERA is not even league average. Are fans expected to just live in a fantasy world and keep saying, "Geez, Hamels sure is great," simply because he had a great post-season run for us in 2008?

[bullit]

jimmy needs to take that do rag and burn it. it's jinxed.

[Bay Slugga]

I'd like to see Jimmy try and go to the opposite field. Does Milt Thompson do anything?

[G-Town Dave]

I'm curious to be able to put Jimmy's current streak in context -- does anybody know what the ML record is for most consecutive ABs without a hit?

[J.R. King]

I think Brian G's point was that being World Series hero gives Hamels immunity from being told to "man the f*ck up already, pretty boy."

If so, I agree. He has not been pitching well enough. Pointing that out on this board is certainly fair game. Questioning his manhood and insulting him personally, on the other hand ...

[bay_area_phan]

Taylor: 2 for 2 tonight with a homerun and a stolen base.

I think it's time for a promotion to AAA.

[EastFallowfield]

Steve Carlton, 1972, 27-10, 1.97

Steve Carlton, 1973, 13-20, 3.94

Can only imagine the vitriol on BL back in 73 ripping Carlton for daring to not have the same exact performance in back to back seasons.

[NEPP]

So BAP, does Josh Beckett suck?...is Mark Buerhle a bum? Or is did they and is Cole now just having an off-year after a really long campaign the year before?

I'm not gonna turn on the guy who carried us to our first WS in 28 years just because of a poor few months.

[MPN]

Dobbs is a really sh!tty LFer.

[G-Town Dave]

J.R. King: Cole's physical frailty & mental immaturity have been on display often enough to make it a valid criticism. Besides which, plenty of ugly things have been said about Lidge, Moyer, etc. w/out any apparent outrage as to the unfairness of the verbiage used.

Oh well, to each his/her own. *shrug*

[redbeard]

butcher

[Jack]

bap: Shocked that you take the negative view of Hamels once again. Ok, so he's struggling this year; no question. But look at some aces. How many of them were consistently great in their 23-26 seasons? Even the best pitchers hit some rough spots when they're still young, especially those that threw as many innings the year before as Cole did in 2008. Just chill out dude. Your negativity is unbelievable.

Hamels is 25. He had 2 really good seasons at age 23 and age 24. A hiccup for a couple months is what it is. If your problem with this team is Cole Hamels, then I don't know what to tell you.