Saturday chat: Lee leads Phillies in second of three

Living large after a 4-2 victory to extend their lead to eight, the Phillies turn to newly minted ace Cliff Lee, who brings a 5-0 mark and near-spotless 0.68 ERA into tonight's game with the Atlanta Braves. First pitch is 7:05.

Rehab notes: As Lee and the Phils get set for Derek Lowe and the Braves, Brett Myers will be on the mound in Reading where he is scheduled to make 45-50 pitches in the first game of a twin bill beginning at 6:30. It's Myers' fourth rehab appearance since undergoing June 4 hip surgery, and if everything goes smoothly, the righthander could rejoin the Phillies sometime next week. Myers doesn't need to be activated before Monday's deadline for adding players eligible for the postseason because of his status on the disabled list. That also holds true for Antonio Bastardo and Clay Condrey; both will reportedly pitch rehab assignments Monday. Bastardo is on the 60-day disabled list, so room would need to be cleared on the 40-man roster. The live-armed lefthander could be eyed as a second lefty for the pen as news of J.C. Romero's progress is not encouraging. The injured reliever, who has been out since July 20, was in Philadelphia yesterday and told the Daily News' Paul Hagan that he is experiencing lingering tenderness in his forearm and elbow and doesn't know when he'll return.

Chemistry: I mentioned confidence in the previous thread and wanted to discuss another Beerleaguer unmentionable: chemistry. There's no question the Phils jell as well as any team in the league. They rocked the boat with the high-profile acquisitions of Lee and three-time Cy Young winner Pedro Martinez earlier this summer. By all accounts, its been a comfortable fit. But when it comes to September call-ups, I'll less inclined to believe they'll welcome just any wide-eyed kid. Expect a few familiar faces from Triple-A, like John Mayberry, Kyle Kendrick and Steven Register, players already on the 40-man roster. Maybe they would make room for someone like veteran Andy Tracy, who was on the bench in 2008 before breaking his hand and has had a good season for Lehigh Valley. In the unlikely scenario they call-up an unknown, it could be someone like Quintin Berry for his wheels (48 stolen bases at Reading). Until the Phils clinch the division, this season's call-ups will be a forgotten presence. I'm not even sure they'll carry a third catcher.

Lineups are posted: Once again, Paul Bako catches Lee. I can't remember which Web site lists CERA (catcher ERA). Bako must be first in baseball. Did I mention I have no problem whatsoever with the Phillies' catch-and-throw backstop, even if he's hitting below the Mendoza? There's no denying the starting rotation has improved with the addition of the journeyman receiver.

Comments

[limoguy]

***There's no denying the starting rotation has improved with the addition of the journeyman receiver.***

Cause and effect or coincidence?

[SmokyJoe]

Myers had a 1-2-3 first w/ 1 K, but they look to be in a rain delay now. He probably will be finished w/out getting those 45-50 pitches.

[Andy]

Bisenius, Naylor, Harman, Naughton: the room on the 40.

I seem to remember that Bako's career CERA is not that outstanding.

[Jack]

Going back to the last thread, Howard would have to basically hit a HR in every one of his ABs for the rest of the season to have as good an offensive season as Utley.

Since 2007, Utley has simply been the better hitter and clearly the better player. This has nothing to do with being an "Utley sycophant" or disparaging Ryan Howard. This is just simple fact. I'm surprised it even caused any sort of discussion.

[SmokyJoe]

No delay, Myers second not as good as first. Gave up a homerun and a single, struck out another & got a DP.

[limoguy]

I live about 5 miles from First Energy Stadium in Reading and we have been getting a torrential downpour for about 10 - 15 minutes.

[bay_area_phan]

I wasn't among those who were terribly offended when the Phillies jettisoned Coste in favor of Bako. Bako is a better defensive catcher and, as NEPP posted the other day, Coste's stats with Houston have been no better than Bako's. In fact, his OPS is actually worse.

I also have no problem with Bako starting when Lee pitches. The combination is obviously working. I doubt very seriously that Bako has much to do with that but why mess with something that's working this well?

For next year, though, they need to do better than Paul Bako as backup catcher. While Ruiz is a fine defensive backstop, he's offensively inept and given to prolonged dry spells. It would be nice to complement him with someone who can hit a little bit -- in other words, someone in the mold of Chris Coste, circa 2006-2007.

[denny b.]

At least Myers got his 2 innings in, before the rains hit.

[SmokyJoe]

The HR Myers gave up was inside-the-park

[phil]

There is absolutely no proven correlation or causation between catchers and ERA. CERA is meaningless. Whenever you hear that a catcher handles a staff well you can assume his offense is abysmal. Also if anyone thinks Ryan Howard is better/more valuable than Chase Utley... wow.

[Lake Fred]

Rain delay at CBP?

[michael]

whats with the rain delay? i live in philly and it isnt even raining

[J. Weitzel]

It rained before the game and it took time to remove the tarp and ready the field.

[fdg]

Rollins bad vs. sinker ball pitchers

[kart racer]

Awesome instead of finally getting to see Cliff Lee pitch, I get to watch a preseason Steelers game on 15 when their schedule says it should be the Phillies game. a$$holes

[Iceman]

The lauding of Lee is getting repetitive, but the way he went through Prado, Jones and McCann was so impressive. They were all just guessing, and when you guess on a guy who has 5 good pitches, you're not going to get many hits. McCann looked baffled.

He must have some late life on his fastball because it doesn't look all that special on TV yet hitters look totally fooled when he pours it in there late in the count. Mark Kram said this on DNL Thursday and I totally agree: we should back up a Brinks Truck and sign this guy as soon as possible.

[bathtubhippo]

"well, that's not a HR in atlanta."

[Jack]

Yeah, that Utley guy sucks. I can't believe so many people on here praise him.

[Hope SE]

If Chase's HR almost went 2nd deck, according to Franske, wouldn't that be out in Atlanta?

[EastFallowfield]

Sycophant.

[Old Phan]

I believe it's 600 feet down the right field line at Turner Field, so no, that would have been an out.

[Lake Fred]

Utz must have been reading BL earlier.

[Huh?]

"Whenever you hear that a catcher handles a staff well you can assume his offense is abysmal"

Does that mean if a catcher can hit then his handling of the staff is abysmal?

[EastFallowfield]

Love McCann starting the around the horn deal on strike 2 to Werth...

[SmokyJoe]

Feliz is absolutely cooked right now. This was the worst time for Dobbs to go on the DL, as Pedro really could use some rest/downtime.

[SmokyJoe]

Come on Jimmy, single would be just fine.

[phil]

@huh?
"Whenever you hear that a catcher handles a staff well you can assume his offense is abysmal"

Does that mean if a catcher can hit then his handling of the staff is abysmal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denying_the_antecedent

you are using a logical fallacy.

but the point is, pitchers handling the staff well is the last vestige of justifying a players worth. it occurs once the players ability is in such decline that you cant make the argument on anything measurable. See: Varitek, J.

[SmokyJoe]

He swung at ball 3 & 4.

[Lake Fred]

Can we use Lee as a left-handed pinch hitter on his off day?

[bay_area_phan]

Jimmy Rollins' average on August 6: .245.
Jimmy Rollins' average today: .243.

His hot streak basically ended in the first weak of August, and he has been a .240-ish hitter ever since -- which is what he has also been for the season as a whole.

[phil]

"There's no denying the starting rotation has improved with the addition of the journeyman receiver."

as long as we're discussing logical fallacies...

There's no denying that their hasn't been one terrorist attack on American soil since Paul Bako was added to the 40 man roster.

[SmokyJoe]

I actually think Jimmy pulls as many pitches (batting lefty) as Ryan Howard. Defenses should put a shift on him also, and he doesn't bunt anymore either.

[Lake Fred]

BAP, is .240 J-Roll's new "norm"?

[Iceman]

Phil, there's no need to go sophomore philosophy major on us. That analogy is just ridiculous. Bako has a direct role in handling a pitching staff whereas, the last time I checked, he has no current role in the office of Homeland Security.

If you want to make a point using an analogy that actually holds water, take a few more Phil100 classes and get back to me.

[SmokyJoe]

I hope Ryno is paying attention. Lowe has thrown 6 changeups so far this inning.

[kart racer]

Fvck the shift!

[Iceman]

That's one way to beat the shift.

[SmokyJoe]

Werth has now failed for like 10 straight times w a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs.

[SmokyJoe]

I know everyone is aware of it, but I'd just like to throw the numbers out there. The Phillies are hitting .257 as a team, and 46% of their runs have come via the longball. This is what you get with them, and there is no use complaining about it.

[phil]

Yeah the point is I don't think Paul Bako's 18 starts have really made any difference at all in staff performance. I think trading for Cliff Lee and sending Jamie Moyer to the pen might have more of a cause/effect relationship with the performance of the collective rotation. In fact I'd be more inclined to believe Paul Bako has had absolutely no effect on the pitching staff. And its not really Phil100, it's probably something you'd get taught in high school geometry, learning how to build proofs and employ logic. But I digress.

[curt]

Phils are somehow threatening hitting only Lowe's pitches. Wonder what would happen if they started making him throw strikes.

[J. Weitzel]

Bako has been a back-up Major League catcher since 1998 despite a career .620 OPS. Basically every season, for 12 seasons, he's somewhere, doing what he's doing for the Phillies, despite no apparent skill with a baseball bat. He's also become the catcher of choice for the Phillies' best pitcher.

[kart racer]

Sorry guys, I mentally jinxed Lee by just thinking if he had given up a HR yet for Philly.

[SmokyJoe]

It couldn't last forever.

[denny b.]

You keep leaving RISP, you are just asking for trouble.

This offense has been in hibernation for too long now. As LA correctly pointed out the other night, if they run into a pitcher that doesn't give up HR's, they are toast.

[J. Weitzel]

"Bako has had absolutely no effect on the pitching staff."

Lee deserves most of the credit obviously, but do you suppose Bako can take some of the credit for working with Lee to expose opposing hitters' tendencies? There's actual dialogue and strategy that occurs between batterymates.

[bathtubhippo]

hm, i think that one comes back on account of the bobby cox HR rule.

[SmokyJoe]

The silver lining is maybe now Charlie will let Ruiz catch Lee going forward.

By the way, would Anderson's home run been out in Atlanta? I know Diaz's would not have. I wonder if Old Fart will mention it in his post game.

[tg082]

Should've gotten Halladay. :)

[SmokyJoe]

JW, not the best game for the Bako argument...

[aksmith]

Anyone else think the way to beat Lee is to stack the lineup with lefties?

[Old Phan]

It's absurd to think the catcher has nothing to do with what a pitcher is doing on the mound. Doesn't mean that Lee wouldn't be performing well with a different catcher, but give Bako some credit, as painful as that might be.

[goody]

On the bright side, this should be the end of the Bako experiment.

[doubleh]

Yeah, I want to hear Bobby Cox complain about this one if they get the win. He, and the entire Braves' team, can kiss my youknowwhat.

I'd like to hear Cholly counter with "Looks like we played this one in the wrong ballpark" just to downplay their hitters and give no credit where it's due like they do.

[justphatastic]

shows he's human.

Not @ the best time...

All those RISP

[SmokyJoe]

Feliz is cooked.

[J. Weitzel]

Via broadcast: Lee says Bako has been outstanding, leading him down the "proper path" in terms of scouting the opposing teams. Must be one of those logical fallacies.

[justphatastic]

The hitters look like they're asleep.

[bake]

Why is T-Mac doing play-by-play on the radio the last couple of nights? Breaking up Franzke & L.A. is a mistake.

[Hope SE]

On gameday, almost none of Lowe's pitches are strikes; all or low and/or outside. How is it on TV?

[justphatastic]

the announcer is JJ

[doubleh]

bake: Franzke is sick.

[Hope SE]

That's Jim Jackson, not TMac on the radio, I believe.

[SmokyJoe]

JW, are you saying Ruiz couldn't do the same? Does that make Ruiz not as good of a "game Manager"?

Frankly, I'm shocked Lee has said that. I would expect something like "I've had all this success despite terrible catching from Bako". /sarcasm

[bake]

Oops, JJ (I don't know the TV guys very well).

GWS, SF.

[Iceman]

We can't even hit Lowe when he's got nothing. Glad he's not on a team that will be in the playoffs..

By the way, I can be blamed for Lee's bad 4th inning after praising him in the 1st. Total jinx.

[J. Weitzel]

Smoky: By all accounts, the Phils have a pair of good-catch, no-hit catchers.

I wonder if the Braves scouted Lee and said they need to make him slow down the pace. This start has a different rhythm to it, doesn't it?

[doubleh]

Iceman: I seem to recall we did pretty well against Lowe in the playoffs last year. Well, at least enough to win.

Phils have been dreadful with RISP lately and it's catching up to them. It won't last forever. They'll come around. I just think they're too good not to.

[curt]

We'll know if Bako adds anything after a few Lee-Ruiz outings. I expect similar results.

[SmokyJoe]

I've thought the same, they are being more patient, stepping out, slowing down his pace. They've had a good approach for Lee. Not so much the Phils w/ Lowe. They keeping swinging at balls out of the zone, hitting his pitches.

[bake]

Get Moyer up.

[justphatastic]

i hope this is not the real cliff lee.

i hope this is just an aberration

[joe l]

Welcome back to planet earth, Mr. Lee. :(

[SmokyJoe]

Apparently, Atlanta can only score on home runs.

[doubleh]

It's one game; it was bound to happen. He couldn't keep a .68 ERA for the rest of the season.

[Old Phan]

Forgive Bobby Cox. Can't blame him just because he's senile.

[curt]

"Get Moyer up."

You ever wake an old guy up in the middle of the night? Not pretty.

[justphatastic]

that wasnt a strike for lee

[SmokyJoe]

Every pitch to the Phils is low & away, yet they insist on trying to pull everything. Not a good approach at all.

[curt]

I'm not sure Lowe has thrown a dozen strikes tonight.

[doubleh]

Lowe hadn't thrown many in his previous starts this month, either. Phils had a pretty lousy approach vs. him tonight.

[curt]

Durbin has worked himself into the role of the 2009 White Flag.

[justphatastic]

this is a f**** joke already..

[Seth]

In Atlanta that wouldnta been a home run, in Atlanta.

[denny b.]

Durbin had only thrown 2 1/3 innings since August 15th.

It looked like it.

Great thing about being up by 8 games in late August, is not sweating these type of games.

Francisco should start tomorrow night, if Cholly was smart. Feliz could use some time off too, but I guess Cairo forgot to bring his glove with him from LV, so he isn't allowed to play (not that he is any kind of option anyway).

[justphatastic]

& CAIRO TO BAT..

[curt]

Cholly rummaging around in the closet tonight - Durbin, Cairo. Might as well stick Brunlett, Stairs and the other riff raff out there somewhere.

[joe l]

Can Gnome throw the 8th and 9th innings for us?

[phillygar]

Phil: Lee didn't replace Moyer in the rotation. Pedro replaced Moyer.

[curt]

Ha! Gonzalez in the 7th inning with an 8 run lead. Respect.

[Lake Fred]

Howard and Werth strike out with bases loaded??!!!

[bake]

You can't win them all, but boy is this game not fun.

[Kool Earl]

Grow some sac and drink some Jack

[J. Weitzel]

Gonzalez did the job right there.

[justphatastic]

i'm on game day - how close was raul to a g-s?

[Hammer]

Raul couldn't hit the floor falling out of bed right now!

11 LOB.

Marlins stinking up the joint right now!

[Lake Fred]

RISP....means nothing to the meat of our order. K, K & FO! It really takes the joy out of being a Phillies fan when the bats go cold for so long.

[bake]

Okay, uncle. I don't think I can sit out this rain delay.

[Tad]

I know nobody cares anymore but that was an impressive two innings of garbage time relief for Walker.

[Lake Fred]

God adds insult to injury on this turkey of a game by giving us a rain delay!