Phillies yank five homers and a closer

The Phillies used five solo homers, including two by Raul Ibanez, to stage what will likely become Brad Lidge's ninth inning curtain call. Beerleaguer: Common sense would eventually prevail, but it was going to take a perfectly staged situation like this for Manuel to make the switch after backing himself into a corner with his bogus endorsements. Only a fool would stick to his guns now considering how Lidge stacked up to Brett Myers and Ryan Madson, even having the added advantage of starting a clean ninth with a two-run lead. This is happening just in time for Manuel to make a clean break from this lost cause. Update: Manuel reaffirmed Lidge will remain closer. This can only mean one thing: he's lost his senses on the matter and an intervention will be necessary before Manuel rides the team into the ground. I'm dead serious.

Comments

[Radd Bilge]

Iceman has a good point. I half-expected Lidge to start kicking and throwing things in the dugout before hitting the showers and being fined $2000 for destroying lockers. Not sit serenely as a spectator.

[SmokyJoe]

I'm a little concerned how Pedro will bounce back after the 120 pitches. Happ is out for at least another turn in the rotation, and we have a double header this weekend.

Why hasn't Rolo been called up?

[SmokyJoe]

Marlins won

[Mayor]

What you saw tonight was the proverbial passing of the Torch. It's bullpen by committee until someone assumes the mantle. Great game and Raul's back!

[thephaithful]

I hope they give Lidge the 7th inning or setup role instead of just shut him down or use him in blowouts.

[SmokyJoe]

I missed Charlie's post-game. What did he say?

[G-Town Dave]

Zolecki (via Twitter): "Lidge said Manuel told him he will be closing tomorrow should the situation arise."

[Dubs]

Mets had bases loaded one out with Wright and Beltran up. Managed to get nothing out of it. Well played guys.

[MG]

Mayor - I wouldn't take that approach and I don't think will see Cholly either. It will be either Madson or Myers but he won't go back-and-forth on them.

Given the Myers now has had 3 scoreless appearances and he has been using his offspeed stuff pretty heavily, I bet Cholly's Magic 8-ball will give him the answer "All Signs Indicate Yes" when he asks it if Myers should be the closer in the locker room tonight after the game.

[Radd Bilge]

Didn't know Zolecki was into dark humor.

[EastFallowfield]

Well, Dubs, you gotta understand something, Wright and Beltran are only in there because of all the injuries.

[vegas]

About time. Lidge pulled an Eaton!
Better late than never. Thanks for 2008 Brad.

[limoguy]

***There's no way Lidge remains closer considering how Brett Myers and Ryan Madson compared. It's just a matter of which one assumes the ninth.***

Until tonight, most of us would probably have said to keep Madson as setup man and use Myers in the 9th.

Mad Dog pitched like a closer tonight but it's a little late in the season to try to figure out if he can do that consistently.

[EastFallowfield]

And the Astros have gone back to being the Astros...4 hits, no runs thru 8.

[bob]

Is Pedro the reincarnation of Blanton 2008? The Phillies never lost when Blanton started last year and they have yet to lose when Pedro has started.

Madson looked awfully good despite bicep tendinitis and it would be tragic if he has to be shut down because of his appearance tonight. Thankfully, it was only 6 pitches.

Are there reasons why Lopez, Chacin and Majewski haven't been called up?

[Phillies Red]

I'm stunned at how consistently bad Lidge has been this year. I really thought he would snap out of it. But given how many chances he has had, and how many he has blown, I'd be surprised to see him working the 9th in late September or anytime in October.

What makes it even more à propos, from a bearleaguer perspective, is that this happened on the same night that Ibanez seems to have snapped out of his funk (let's hope).

[bob]

so Lidge gets even more rope?

[paco]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AghKEVMB7flwycfhEisqw605nYcB?slug=ap-phillies-lidge&prov=ap&type=lgns

Lidge is still the closer.

[MG]

Does Lidge have to start talking in tongues, foaming at the mouth, and refusing to throw a pitch home before Cholly removes him from the closer's role?

[limoguy]

Lidge is still the closer,

[EastFallowfield]

Those Yahoo links are from before tonight's game, although Lidge is probably still the closer.

[BobWalk]

Let's hope UC was giving Lidge some lip-serice ... if Cholly puts Lidge into a game that is closer than 8-10 runs for the rest of this season, UC should be put into a sanatorium

[MG]

WTF:

“Lidge is our closer,” Manuel said before the Phillies played the Washington Nationals. “You’ve definitely got to show confidence in him.”

On the other point, why aren't moves guys in the bullpen given all the injuries? Should be at least another 2 arms out there from Lehigh.

[DK]

That yahoo link is clearly from before tonight's game. Not saying that Manuel won't keep Lidge as the closer, just saying this is not proof of it.

[Kool Earl]

Paco- That report was written 3.5 hours ago per Yahoo.

[G-Town Dave]

Watching Charlie on Comcast right now, insisting that Lidge will continue to be used, & ONLY as a closer.

[MG]

Cholly is talking right now on CSN and he reaffirms that Lidge is his closer. Ugh.

[BobWalk]

G-Town: Are you kidding me? Cholly is saying that with a straight face? This is f'ing pathetic, if true

[MG]

It does speak very well though for Lidge to answer some post-game questions (especially some really stupid & pointless ones) in a professional matter although he is clearly exasperated and flushed.

[bob]

Talking about injuries, there are questions about Lee's durability:

"Point is, the home runs should go away, as should the outings with six earned runs on his ledger. The bigger issue is Lee’s durability. In his last three starts of 2008, when he had passed the 200-inning mark, he gave up 12 earned runs in 21 2/3 innings. Lee hit 200 on the nose with his last start, and he’s got five more left before the playoffs. His fastball velocity didn’t waver in his two stinkers. Things just caught up to him."

From Yahoo's Passan.

[doubleh]

G-Town: I'm looking at Charlie's body language. I'm not convinced. He's still the closer, but his rope is getting shorter by the minute. He kept repeating "he doesn't know what to do". The fact that he admitted that he had a bad feeling while Lidge was on the mound (finally) and that's why he pulled him speaks volumes.

Raul has a .463 avg against the Nats this season.

[cjp]

How on earth can Lidge still be the closer? A serious question now is just what Lidge would have to do to lose the job. After this news, I am convinced that there is nothing Lidge could do - short of literally taking a dump on the mound (as opposed to the figurative craps he's been taking out there all season) - for UC to take the job away from him.

At this point, I think UC's commitment to him can only be described as "blind loyalty", which is a lovely sentiment in some situations, I suppose. In this case, though, it entails a serious screwing of the other 24 guys on the roster and the entire fan base. If this blows up and Lidge either costs them a postseason spot or his piss-poor performance leads to an early, ugly exit in the playoffs, UC should lose his job. It's pretty clear that he has other, more promising options to explore and he's refusing to do so.

[SmokyJoe]

That was the most uncomfortable Charlie has ever looked talking to the media, and that's saying something. His words said one thing, but his gestures and body language said something entirely different. Lidge may get some more opportunites for 2-run and (especially) 3-run saves, but he'll be warming up Myers/Madson at the first sign of trouble. And Myers/Madson will definitely get some more save opportunities.

[bay_area_phan]

Iceman: I comment on the game in real time. If a guy pitches a bad first inning, I say he looks bad. I can't predict what's going to happen for the next 8 innings after that. Through 4 innings, Pedro didn't look so hot. He looked much better after that -- so good, in fact, that I thought Cholly was right for bringing him back to pitch the 7th.

[bay_area_phan]

I refuse to join the chorus that's giving Cholly credit for removing Lidge from tonight's game. If you throw your cat into a burning house, you don't get credit for running in later to save save the cat. No other manager in baseball would have brought Lidge out to start the 9th inning tonight. So no credit is due for getting him out of there -- several batters too late, no less.

[doubleh]

SmokyJoe: I saw the same thing. Charlie repeated over and over again that he doesn't know what he'll do in any given situation. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Lidge.

[bullit]

cholly said that "the game, winning, is bigger than my heart." the "heart" being his loyalty to lidge. i think that was revealing.

[doubleh]

BTW, if Madson can get outs with biceps tendinitis, then Lidge can get them with a blister FFS. I had better not hear that as an excuse for his inability to throw strikes.

[mm]

Perhaps Charlie just hasn't had the chance to talk to lidge yet. Maybe he doesn't feel comfortbale doing it tonight, and thus, doesn't want to give anything away to the media.

[G-Town Dave]

Uncomfortable body language? Screw that. Charlie needs to act like the boss & start making the tough decisions he is paid to make. Every day he gives Lidge another chance to blow a win is a slap in the face to Jamie Moyer, who was sent to the bullpen w/ practically NO regard to the player himself. Lidge DOES NOT have it this season. Charlie needs to man up & tell Brad his year is over. Quite frankly, it should have been done weeks ago. That he's still sh*tting around w/ the "what do I do w/ Lidge" stuff is a sorry, sorry spectacle.

[bullit]

i think lidge said all the right, politic things in that interview. until asked at the end if he was "a little surprised" by the hook. he said "yeah, a bit surprised." seriously, brad?

[control13]

I couldn't believe it when Lidge came out to start the 9th. After that Houston game, it's obvious he can't close anymore this year. Charlie is nuts. I know the guy is signed for two more years, but this year is a lost cause ... shut him down and make madson or myers the closer, period. It's not fair to the rest of the team and the fans. It's so hard to comprehend how the guy could be so good last year, and so bad the next, but I guess that's been his history.

[SmokyJoe]

Gtown, hate to disagree, but the #1 rule for managers (any kind, line leaders, HR Directors, baseball managers, etc.) is always, always, always praise in public, chastise in private. Any and every scenario. I have no problems with Charlie's attempt at public support. I will have a problem if he let's Lidge blow another save, especially in a crucial situation (i.e. division gets tight).

[goody]

Smokey Joe: The problem with holding back Myers or Madson to back up Lidge is that you can't use them earlier.

[philsphan]

Fire Cholly and hire Jimy Williams!

[dlhunter]

Brad Lidge has joined Eric Bruntlett's blackmail cabal.

That's the only answer.

[SmokyJoe]

Goody, that's the beauty of having two options, you can use one and save the other. And we still have CHoP, Eyre, Durbin, Walker, etc.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

My hardest decision is when to use Lidge. I don't use him in the 9th, period. Relatedly, and finally, Manuel has decided that someone can relieve after Lidge. Should have done that in Houston.

[myboys]

no question charlie hedeged when it came to suggesting he would bring lidge back again as his closer - he said his heart wants to but winning the game must come first - ooahh, charlie!! - he said however that he is a closer - he cant see him pitching the 7th or 8th - and he maintained that he is going to keep him "close" in order to get him going again!! - everytime he looked like he might say lidge will close again his brain seemed to just intercept the words from his lips at the last second!! - thank goodness!! - charlie did say however he met with lidge in his office after the game - and lidge said in his post game interview that charlie said he would bring him out as his closer again - a little bit of a disconnect - of course its just hearsay from lidge so i guess we'll see - bottom line is with meyers and madson both capable of being groomed into closers at this point for the playoffs it would be a real slap in the face to moyer - the other players - and the fans - and the owners/gm to not do this already - enough is enough!!!!

[Tray]

I would not put too much stock into a postgame Charlie press conference. He stood by Moyer for a long while too. Eventually a move will be made.

[SmokyJoe]

I think everyone can agree that the best possible scenario for this team involves a solid Lidge. That probably isn't possible now, but Charlie has been trying to get there. At this point, we'd have one heck of a back-end if Lidge was right. But if push comes to shove, and Lidge could either cost us a playoff chance or a playoff series, Charlie won't use him. Until we get to that point, he's going to try to build him up and see if he can get right. I think Charlie showed tonight that we're at that point of possibly having to go to plan B sooner rather than later and give up on the reclamation project.

[G-Town Dave]

SmokyJoe: I don't want Charlie to rip Lidge to the media, I want him to sit down w/ Lidge & tell him it's OVER. That he stood there in front of the media & reiterated that he would continue to use Lidge, & only as a closer, when he could have just as easily not commented until he talked to Lidge was telling. You see public support; I see a guy who refuses to let go.

[denny b.]

"MG-On the other point, why aren't moves guys in the bullpen given all the injuries? Should be at least another 2 arms out there from Lehigh."

I have no idea. I have no clue what the FO is doing, in this regard.

Colorado just called up 4 or 5 more guys today (while dumping Adam Eaton in the process).

We have botched this from September 1 on. We almost played a game in Houston this past weekend, AFTER the rosters could be expanded, where Cholly would have been basically out of players, had the game gone extras (Hoover would have been the healthy only position player). That is asinine.

Now, its very apparent to anyone paying attention, that we have some leaky wheels in the staff. Madson was unavailable yesterday. Happ is hurt. Eyre is hurting. Lidge is a lost cause. Park had some kind of minor injury in the past week or so, where he wasn't available.

Its very probable now, that Kendrick will start one of the DH games on Sunday, with Happ's injury. Moyer will pitch on Saturday, with Pedro pitching the other game on Sunday. So, that takes 2 more bullpen guys (Moyer and Kendrick) out of the mix this weekend.

Where is the "speed" guy, we need from the Minors? Are we waiting for Reading's season to end? What if they keep winning and move on in the playoffs?

There are 3 players at Reading, that should be in Washington RIGHT NOW. Mathieson, Berry and one of the lefty relievers (Escalona, Zagurski or Bastardo) all should have already been recalled to help the big club. Andy Tracy, with his 25 HR's and 96 RBI's, should have been recalled from LV already as well, to give Cholly more then 1 lefty pinch-hitter off the bench (if anyone still considers Stairs a "hitter").

That is all that would need to be done. All would/could serve a purpose. Its what 28 other MLB teams have done. Insurance for the good clubs and auditions for the bad clubs. We need some insurance right now. We have players that could help or at least should be given a chance to help in some way.

Wake up Ruben. Your job ain't done yet this year.

[bob]

Pujols and Holliday are making StL looking like the team to beat in the NL. Whoever on BL who thought Holliday sucked (and there were definitely a few of you who thought he was a Coors creation) were WAAAAAY off. His OPS+ is 192 as a Cardinal with a line of 378/433/692. Someone on BL said that if the Phillies acquired him, he would've been their RH bat off the bench. Yeah. Ok.

I just hope Holliday cools off before October.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

I didn't see the postgame comments so, I'm operating on general principles. My expectation is that Lidge is done closing in close situations. He simply can'tbe permtted to lose more games all by himself. His immediate future involves situations in the 7th or 8th where we need an out or two and, where help is warming up before teh first pitch. They need someone to throw strikes at teh end of the game.

[denny b.]

Prediction on how this Lidge mess gets worked out...

Lidge comes in tomorrow and volunteerily takes himself out of the closer role. He takes Cholly off the hook, for the betterment of the team.

Lidge is a high quality person. He more then anyone, knows he don't have it anymore. He knows how much he is letting everyone down. He'll be the one, to end this. He'll volunteer to pitch in lower-stress (i.e. parts of the game where he can't screw it up) situations to try and figure out his mechanics and find himself. Cholly will say, that "when Brad finds it, he will be my closer again".

Myers moves into the closer role, with Madson helping him on occasion. Lidge never finds it and may not even be on the playoff roster (which becomes the next big story in a few weeks).

Heard tonight that it Dobbs isn't coming along very well. Another bad development.

[RK]

I was thinking that Lidge has cast a pall on this team he has blown so many on theis road trip alone it is entirely possible even likely had he not pitched inPiutssburgh and Houston the phils would have won more games and benen more upbeat about the other games and possibly win them instead of dejectedly losing. The situation tonight was no different then inHouston when he wa left in. Weitzel ias right if Chollyinsists on using Lidge he could drive the Phils right out of having a meaningful play off experience.

[awh]

bob, with regard to your canonization of Holliday, can you say these two words together:

"Sample Size"?

[timr]

"Brad Lidge has joined Eric Bruntlett's blackmail cabal."

Chollie must have murdered a hooker in Houston a few years ago.

"Lidge comes in tomorrow and volunteerily takes himself out of the closer role."

I would be incredibly surprised if this happened. Most pro athletes are way too egotistical to voluntarily demote themselves, even if they are generally good guys on and off the field.

[john]

if charlie keeps lidge as his closer he doesnt want to keep his job

[Jack]

SmokyJoe: There's a huge flaw in saying "Well, its OK to have Lidge closing as long as we have Madson/Myers warming up to back him up."

The flaw is that by saving Madson/Myers to be the de fact backup closer in case of emergency you're not using them earlier in the game, when they can be helpful to preserve the lead to get to the 9th inning. You cannot have Lidge be the closer if you're forced to save one of your best relievers as an insurance policy for him. You're blowing your chance to even get to the 9th with the lead. That's why it's important that a closer be settled on, so that the other good pitchers can be used in the appropriate roles earlier in the game.

[Brad Lidge]

I'M THE CLOSER AND DON'T YOU BEEEYOTCH'S FORGET IT.

[denny b.]

"Anyone else see the look Manuel gave Lidge while pulling him? No words spoken but volumes communicated."

Yes, that was odd. Both men looked completely spent. Cholly looked like he was about to say something, got real close to Brad, and then just kinda staired at him and stuck his hand out for the ball. It was actually sad to watch.

Both guys are probably really tired of this whole charade. Cholly obviously is never going to make a move, if he hasn't done the right thing by now. It has to be up to Lidge now. He has to be the one to do the right thing for the Philadelphia Phillies. If he is truly a team guy (which I think he is), he comes in tomorrow and makes it easy on Cholly.

That was truly like watching Mark Wohlers tonight (the old Braves closer) from the mid 90's, when he had no clue where the ball was going. The harder he tried, the worse he got. He is falling all over the place and has no clue what he is doing in the stretch. One appearance, he misses with everything up and in to righties. Tonight, he misses with everything down and in to lefty's. You almost feel sorry for the guy, because you know he's dying out there (and most of the fans are dying with him, watching it).

Its just a complete mess. It should have been taken care of weeks and weeks ago. Its way, way, way too late now to do anything about 2009's season. He's mentally fried and it ain't coming back this year.

[bob]

awh - 1.5 months, 41 games and 178 plate appearances is not that small a sample. But then again, should we say that Cliff Lee's performance since becoming a Phillie (as well as Francisco's) is due to small sample size?

Give Holliday his due. Even if he doesn't hit worth a lick for the rest of the year, Holliday's numbers will still be better than Utley's, Howard's, Ibanez, etc. I remember that some BL poster said that the Phillies had 3 OFs better than Holliday. Although he's defensively challenged, he's offensively a much bigger threat than Vic, Werth and Ibanez.

[denny b.]

timr- I could see Lidge doing this. The look on his face tonight, on the bench, watching Madson clean up his mess, was one that told me "he knows".

He looked tired. He looked confused. He looked beaten.

It just can't go on any longer. Maybe they make up some bogus reason (his blister has gotten worse or something), but its time.

[Gsl]

Bob- You have an interesting working definition of the word "much"

[bay_area_phan]

Jack: Yeah, that's the biggest problem. The second biggest problem is that, if you have to bring in the backup option, it won't always go as seamlessly as it did tonight. More often than not, a reliever (even a good reliever) who comes into a messy situation is going to yield a run or 2.

[Unikruk]

bob - Holliday's career .357/.423/.645 line at Coors Field indicates he was indeed a Coors Creation. And his numbers imply he's a better second-half player, which helps to explain the pre-trade situation, though ballpark and lineup help, too.

Oh, and he'll only be given his due when he finally touches home plate. Zing!

[RSB]

An 'intervention'? Will this involve a tranquilizer gun, duct tape, and a wad of cotton? (Why didn't we think of this before?)

[bob]

gsl - Someone (Holliday) who has a 194 OPS+ is a MUCH bigger offensive threat than:
1) Ibanez: 132
2) Vic: 109
3) Werth: 131

Pujols on the year has a 197 OPS+
Utley: 146
Howard: 135

[J.R. King]

There one more reason to remove Lidge from the closer's spot NOW rather than later. The Phillies need time to figure out who works best in that role going forward. The obvious solution is Myers closing with Madson setting up, but it would help to try it while there's still time to make adjustments.

I also don't think Lidge is capable of being a set-up man right now. Until he finds his groove again, he shouldn't be pitching in close games at all. He should be given the Tyler Walker role until he works his way back toward the back end of the bullpen.

[J.R. King]

I meant there *is* one more reason to remove Lidge.

[Gsl]

Bob- Those OPS+ numbers you listed for Holliday are from 41 games. That doesn't tell anyone anything.

[Gsl]

Also, the OPS+ he put up for the majority of the year was less than the numbers you posted for Ibanez and Werth and not "much" better than Vic's

[Unikruk]

Seriously, bob, we get it. He's on a hot streak. If you think he can post a 190 OPS+ for an entire season (or even the for rest of the season), then I have some real estate to sell you.

[bay_area_phan]

"Update: Manuel reaffirmed Lidge will remain closer. This can only mean one thing: he's lost his senses on the matter and an intervention will be necessary before Manuel rides the team into the ground. I'm dead serious."

Truer words were never written. I know GMs don't like to meddle into areas that are within the manager's realm -- at least not publicly. But Cholly works for Rube so, ultimately, it's Rube's call. And it wouldn't be the first time that a GM has vetoed his manager's wishes. Billy Beane is famous for meddling into his managers' strategic decisions and you can be sure that other GMs do it too.

If Cholly is still standing by Lidge as his closer, it tells me that, for whatever reason, he has completely lost the ability to be objective, or even rational, on this issue. That lack of objectivity has cost them many games this year & it's a miracle it didn't cost them tonight's game, as well. If he persists, that persistence will cost them more games in the playoffs --and possibly even their season.

There is a reason that no closer with 20+ saves has ever had a 7+ ERA and 10 blown saves; no reliever who had a 7+ ERA and multiple blown saves has ever been permitted to remain in the closer's role for as long as Lidge has this year. If Cholly can't make the decision that every other manager would have made 2 months ago, someome else in the organization needs to make it for him.

[J.R. King]

I didn't see the postgame interview, but the quotes I read lead me to believe Lidge is done being the closer until he pitches his way back.

From the Inquirer: "When I say he's my closer, I don't tell lies. And I don't like to go back on nothing," Manuel said. "But the team and the game is bigger than my heart, and bigger than anything else. Winning a game is what comes first and that's why I manage. That was real tough for me to do.

"But I'm definitely not going to get away from him. We're going to work with him and get him back to where he becomes consistent and he can save games. I look at him as a closer. Not a seventh-inning guy or eighth-inning guy."

Will they "work with him" in the bullpen and in a mop-up role for a while, or will they work with him while he tries to close games?

From the AP: “I’m not saying that he’ll close tomorrow, the next day or whatever ,” Manuel said, “but I look at him as a closer.”

Sounds like Brad is getting a break but will be back to closing games after he gets his stuff together. Or at least that's my hope.

[Mark S]

"I don't tell lies. I don't like to go back on nothing"

In real English that means he is changing his mind.

[drake]

we're lucky to have two other viable closing options in myers and madson. i'd prefer to let myers close and keep madson in the 8th. i don't think brett will be a phillie next year, but i bet you he signs a free agent deal as a closer. too many teams out there need one and we're committed to lidge for too much money over the next two years. plus i think and i know many of you agree that he'd prefer to close.

[Bob]

My guess is that Lidge will talk with Cholly and maybe a couple of other players. He knows better than any of us how bad he has been, and for all the emotion here on BL and in the fan base, I can't begin to imagine what is going on in his mind and heart now.

I think he will probably tell Cholly he appreciates his support, but that he knows he is hurting the team, and that he is willing to do whatever is needed at this point to be a good soldier and help the team.

Cholly will say to the media something along the lines of: "I talked to Brad. He's a closer. He's a gamer and he's ready to go in there, or to do whatever is needed to help the team. We're going to work with him, try to get his confidence back up there so he can help us. He's had good stuff, he's been hitting 95-96 on the gun, but he's having a little trouble with his command. So we're going to try some other things for a while to give Brad time so he can get back to where he was last year."

Bottom line, Myers will start closing, with Madsen as setup guy (assuming health issues permit). Lidge may be used in low risk situations for a while to try to build him back up and see if anything can be salvaged this season. Or they may use the "blister" as an excuse to give him a rest.

This is an incredibly difficult situation. I think Cholly knows in his heart of hearts that it's time. But he's torn. His whole rep is based on his loyalty to his players, and he's a stubborn guy who truly is loyal, it's not a front. And he's won a championship doing it his way. Also, humanity aside, there is a huge financial committment to Lidge going forward that makes simply tossing him overboard at this point impossible.

I imagine there were early AM meetings with Ruben saying "It's tough. Brad is a class guy. WE all love Brad and WE all hate this, Charlie, but WE know what has to be done here."

That's my take at this point anyway. Nothing easy for the guys in red pinstripes.

BTW, the Holliday poster is another bob.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

In the depths of historical futility, Pirates GM finds the gall to point a finger East and say, it could be worse, we could be the Phillies.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09252/996593-150.stm

[ozark]

And to think we have 2 more season with Lidge. Maybe Rube can unload him and re-sign Myers. But who in tarnation would take him? If not, he'd be an awfully expensive mop-up guy.

[EastFallowfield]

I'm sure all the people in Pittsburgh are comforted to know that the Pirates were better than the Phils 70 years ago.

[NEPP]

****I imagine there were early AM meetings with Ruben saying "It's tough. Brad is a class guy. WE all love Brad and WE all hate this, Charlie, but WE know what has to be done here."****

I figure this was done but along the lines of Reservior Dogs scenario where Ruben is Mr. Blonde and Chollie is the kidnapped cop.

"It's tough. Brad is a class guy. WE all love Brad and WE all hate this, Charlie, but WE know what has to be done here. BTW Charlie, have you ever listened to K Billy super sounds of the 70s..."

[Andy]

"Lidge is still closer"
(But not the guy who ends close games:
that's now the "set-up.")

[Andy]

clout - It's amazing to me how Ibanez' "injury" took 22 games to "heal." Just like it did in 2008 and 2007. The one in 2006 took 21 games, I seem to recall. His "injuries" take non the quality of "slumps" leading to a "reversion to career norms."

Astounding.

[Bob]

NEPP,

Heh.

Stealer's Wheel. "Stuck In The Middle With You."

[phanatic's brother]

hahahah "I 'm dead serious"

Sorry, but my coffee almost shot thru my nose on that ending .

[bob]

gsl, unikruk - Holliday's OPS+ (park-adj.)for the entire year is 148, which is higher than Utley's. Unless you don't think Utley is a much better hitter than Vic, Ibanez and Werth, you've got no case. And the bottom line is that the Cards improved significantly in terms of offense, defense, pitching, and bench depth at the deadline to the point that they are the favorites heading into the postseason. They are a particularly good matchup with the Phillies given their righty-dominant lineup and the Phillies' lefty rotation (plus Blanton has reverse splits). Pitching-wise, Carpenter and Wainwright are dominant and Pinero gives the Phillies all sorts of problems. The Phillies are going to have to get healthy and hot if they're going to beat any of the playoff teams as there isn't much of a margin.