Wright wins it for Mets with two outs in ninth

David Wright's two-run homer off Ryan Madson completed New York's stunning 10-9 comeback at Citizens Bank Park. Plan C?

Comments

[Joel Goodling]

embarrassing

[bay_area_phan]

PS: You came to this blog, with the professed intention of trying to partake in civil baseball discussion. Even though your original handle was "Phils Suck" and even though your first posts on the blog expressed the view that Chase Utley was a cheater, you staunchly denied that you were a troll, or that you were here to act like a jackass. After some initial, and justifiable, skepticism, you were eventually welcomed here. In fact, you were even treated more courteously than we treat many of our own. Now you show up with a moronic, foul-mouthed, insulting post that I would have expected from a 10-year old Mets troll. What a loser.

And what a depressing game . . .

[rhyno182]

ugh..

[EastFallowfield]

Finally the Mets deliver in the clutch in September. All it took was a miserable season to take all the pressure off.

You know if there season was on the line Wright was striking out or popping up.

[The Truth Injection]

MG: You play to win today. It's retarded to argue you shouldn't.

I think Durbin and Walker should get some work too but the only reason you are on here providing your negative analysis is because Myers and Madson failed to get the job done. If Walker pitched and did the same thing Myers did you would be on here complaining and saying,

"Charlie is mismanaging this pen. We should've had this locked up and he blew this one."

We have no idea what happens tomorrow. There may or may not be a save situation. Myers may or may not have had to pitch. Play for the day. It's September, time to ride the horses.

Also- the pitch Wright hit was an 85 MPH changeup that was supposed to be inside and ended up belt high and caught way too much of the plate. It wasn't trying to throw balls past people. He had good stuff but missed badly with a spot.

[John]

This team is overrated. We can't beat bad teams (Houston, Nats, Mets.)

[PS]

BAP: Just taking out a season's worth of frustration

Someone has to provide some truth to the ridiculous things said about the Mets on this site.

[PS]

And Chase Utley does lean into pitches.

[bay_area_phan]

I won't repost. I'll just paraphrase what I wrote before.

When your 3 best relievers squander a 4-run lead, it isn't the manager's fault for using the team's 3 best relievers. It's the relievers' fault for screwing up. If Cholly erred by using his 3 best relievers so that some/all of them are not available tomorrow, then that error might potentially be the cause of our losing a game tomorrow. But it wasn't the cause of our losing the game tonight.

[phlipper]

If I'm not mistaken, BLers have been complaining that UC hasn't used Park/Myers enough - thus preventing them from establishing a rhythm. Clearly, he's been trying to establish Madson as his closer - and everyone has been complaining that he needed to use Madson as the closer sooner.

You can always second-guess a manager when his bullpen doesn't get the job done - but all in all, the Phillies bullpen has outpitched expectations the last two years. I mean, seriously, Park, Eyre, Walker, Romero, Madson - is there a reliever on the team that hasn't outperformed expectations over the past two years - outside of Lidge this year. I just don't get how some folks think it's legit to say that UC is terrible at managing his bullpen.

[chstk of suffrg]

How many games for the year is it now that the Phils have lost when leading going into the ninth?

It's hard to imagine making it through even one round of the playoffs with that hanging over your team ...

[phlipper]

"When your 3 best relievers squander a 4-run lead, it isn't the manager's fault for using the team's 3 best relievers"

Bingo.

[The Truth Injection]

BAp; That's just a concise way of saying what I'm saying. You go for the win and your best relievers need to lock it down. If it backfires tomorrow then we have an issue.

[Tray]

"You can always second-guess a manager when his bullpen doesn't get the job done - but all in all, the Phillies bullpen has outpitched expectations the last two years."

Which doesn't at all demonstrate that he's using his relievers in the right spots. That said, no complaints as to his managing today.

[bay_area_phan]

PS: No one on this site vents more than I do. And I write plenty of posts attempting to counter others' ridiculous assertions. But somehow or other, I've managed to do all that without ever calling another poster a "d-bag" or telling him to "eat 10,000 bowls of dicks."

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

Wait I thought we were overrated because we only beat bad teams.

This complaining is getting confusing.

[PS]

Hahah, fair point.

[MG]

"MG: You play to win today. It's retarded to argue you shouldn't."

Say what? The Phils have a 6 game lead and more importantly have play 2 games that are just as important games tomorrow afternoon. This isn't the playoffs or a race where the Phils are in a dead heat with only 3 or 4 games left in the season to play.

"We have no idea what happens tomorrow. There may or may not be a save situation. Myers may or may not have had to pitch. Play for the day. It's September, time to ride the horses."

So you ride the same 3 horses that you have even though 2 of them (Park, Madson) have been utilized heavily and have slight nagging injuries? Yeah. Besides completely forgetting that they play 2 tomorrow, let's ride 2 of 3 key guys in the pen into the ground and see if they get hurt. That's a sound strategy.

If Cholly had inserted Durbin or Walker today and they had blown it, I wouldn't have griped. That would be on those guys and they didn't execute. Same if Cholly would have then been forced to use Myers or Park if those guys couldn't get it done.

Cholly is a putz when it comes to managing his bullpen. Yeah certain guys failed to execute today but WTF did Cholly expect especially with Madson today in the 9th.

In baseball, it is about setting up your guys to be in the best position to where they can succeed and far too often Cholly's fails that basic criteria with this bullpen and how it uses it.

[dlhunter]

Bring back Mitch Williams!

[G-Town Dave]

Charlie Manuel lost this game, period. The "win today" argument is nonsense, because it's increasingly unlikely you'll "win today" if you use the same few pitchers 3 of 4 & 4 of 5 days. Fer f*ck's sake, it wasn't even a potential save situation! I don't know what kind of mind games Charlie is playing w/ the FO, but he needs to use some other guys whether he has "confidence" in them or not, or man up & flat ask for help. The status quo is failing, spectacularly.

[phlipper]

"Which doesn't at all demonstrate that he's using his relievers in the right spots"

True. But the "right spots" is a pretty subjective determination. I'd say it would be pretty hard to get better than expected performances out of pitchers if you consistently use them in the "wrong spots." I'd also say that getting performances that are better than previous history is a fairly objective measure of a manager.

[J96]

The curse on the bullpen is that tv show
"The Pen"

I thought Madson was due for a day off.

[MG]

"Win today mantra" is the single dumbest thing I continue to hear on here and in general in baseball.

"Win today mantra" but at what cost to wins in the intermediate and long-term potential?

If would be a different story if the Phils were engaged in a heated race or in the playoffs with little or no margin for error where a loss really would statistically hurt their chances. I can even see making the argument if the Phils were playing the Fish and the result would be a 2-game swing in the standing.

Neither applies though and the thing that completely baffles me now is how Cholly almost universally get defended now in how he uses the bullpen and he got brutalized in '07 when he practiced the same inept strategies.

[bay_area_phan]

I still say you stick with Madson at closer. Lidge is not an option, Myers' stuff/command doesn't look as good as it looked pre-injury, and I would hate to lose Park's ability to eat multiple innings. And don't even mention Tyler Walker. He has done a nice job, but he has pitched almost exclusively in blowout games. If you ranked all our relievers in order of stuff, Walker would rank 7th or 8th.

I was never under any illusion that we would be able to replace Lidge with a shut-down closer. Whoever we pick is going to blow some saves. But you can't have a closer with an ERA of 7 and a 1.80 WHIP. Madson is the best option available, even if he's far from perfect.

[MG]

Dave - Cholly didn't lose the game period. His relievers didn't execute and ultimately the loss is on them.

Cholly though generally fails to put his relievers in the best chance to succeed (especially Madson today) and it generally does hurt the team.

Myers didn't have much today at all. Park neither but I wonder if that injury isn't bothering him. Good luck getting him to make an excuse or talk about the injury.

Madson just looked completely gassed today and I give Wright credit for guessing and getting good lumber on the ball. Wright has struggled this year but it is amazing the amount of crap he takes in NY. Not as bad as Schmidt got here but pretty bad nevertheless.

[Tray]

"But the "right spots" is a pretty subjective determination."

Of course, as we can only guess at what might have happened had a different pitcher been used in a given spot. Just as we have no real idea of how many more runs we might have scored last season if Burrell hadn't always left the game in the 7th inning. But some moves are pretty obviously stupid.

[WERESTILLCHAMPS]

Posted by: PS-" Someone has to provide some truth to the ridiculous things said about the Mets on this site."

who would that be?

[Lake Fred]

Another classic loss. Ranks with the worst of the season. I'm at loss at who should close.

[The Truth Injection]

MG: 90% of your posts are griping. You saying you wouldn't have complained had Walker blown the lead is just flat out lying.

Our magic number is 17 coming into today. When you have an opportunity to win a game I want them doing everything they can to win that game. If the Phillies had been up 7- Taschner or Durbin probably pitches. It was a 4 run game in which the Mets were hitting the ball. You absolutely have to lock that game down. The three best relievers in the pen blew it. Yes there is a DH tomorrow but there is an off day Monday.

Here's a hypothetical for you:

Phillies use Durbin and Taschner today and win 9-7 after they scuffle a little.

Tomorrow both Pedro and KK get roughed up and go 2 innings each. We'd have to get a bunch of time out of those guys in addition to Myers and them probably pitching in a garbage game.

The problem is you can't argue about the future- look at what is happening today.

And I'm not advocating hurting guys. I'm saying these guys have had relatviely short outings lately so going 3 or 4 days in a row isn't that bad a deal.

I'm just really glad that you guys who think it's ok to put your worst relievers in a relatively close game because we should play for tomorrow aren't the manager of this team

[MG]

My bet is the Phils split tomorrow, have an off-day, and this is all forgotten by Tues. unless Madson or Park turn up with a more serious injury.

[bay_area_phan]

G-Town: So your argument is that, with a 4-run lead, you don't need to use your best relievers. Wasn't that theory proven false by the very fact that they DID blow a 4-run lead? And, if you know that you the 4-run lead can be blown, wouldn't it follow that you WOULD want to use your best relievers?

[MG]

TI - So basically you are saying that the Phils likely would have won if they had used Walker/Durbin today, that a win today somehow has more intrinsic value than a win tomorrow, and that the Phils should continue to use their best relievers heavily even though they had some possible alternatives and were nursing injuries? That's sound reasoning.

[MG]

TI - There is a difference between using Walker/Durbin and the likes of Escalona/Taschner. Same goes for Lidge.

They should be able to protect a 4-run lead and Cholly should have had a contingency plan if place if he didn't have enough confidence in a Durbin/Walker to get through the 8th or 9th.

[mvptommyd]

So are we ready to say Madson can't close yet, or do we want more?

[G-Town Dave]

MG: Tomato, To-mah-to. Charlie went above & beyond not putting his pitchers in a position to succeed, he put them into a situation where they were more likely to fail. He's done that all season w/ Lidge, too, using him 3-4 days straight when it clearly DID NOT WORK. The offense put 9 runs on the board & had a 4 run lead. Using Myers & Madson was downright negligent. Manuel is the Dusty Baker of bullpens.

[The Truth Injection]

Madson threw 93-96 with his fastball like he almost always does.

He had really good break on his slider. Tatis fisted a good fastball on the inner half of the plate inside the line and then Madson hung a changeup.

Nothing indicates he was "gassed." He made one bad pitch and Wright guessed first pitch changeup.

[HOLYMACKREL]

walker was a closer with SF back in 05 06 & based on the stats i have seen online, looked pretty successful...

should they consider him as a closer///

hell of time in the season to decide..

[MG]

Dave - That would be the "Joe Torre of bullpens" but I get your point and that is what I am trying to say. Cholly doesn't do a good job of putting his bullpen guys in the best spots to succeed normally and he doesn't think beyond today's game which is maddening at times.

[bay_area_phan]

The Phils should probably add an arm for tomorrow's DH, because it's a leap of faith that KK will be able to give them 6 decent innings & Carpenter has done absolutely nothing to show himself deserving of Cholly's trust. Gustavo Chacin would not be a bad call-up, although it would require a roster move.

[MG]

TI - That fastball was straight as an arrow today and his changeup didn't have the bite or drop it normally does. Madson was tired today and it wouldn't surprise me given his usage this week and getting over/pitching through that biceps tendinitis.

[Tray]

"TI - So basically you are saying that the Phils likely would have won if they had used Walker/Durbin today, that a win today somehow has more intrinsic value than a win tomorrow..."

He's not saying that. He's saying that we knew we were ahead today, had something like an 80% chance of winning if we put in our closer. Whereas our chances going in tomorrow are 50/50 and who's to say we'd even need Madson tomorrow? We could get blown out, we could blow them out, etc. We knew we were an inning away from winning today, knew we could use him today, didn't know the same of tomorrow.

[The Truth Injection]

MG: You're reaching Jack levels of comprehension and you're smarter than that so I'll go slow.

When you are winning a game you need to try and win it. 4 runs in CBP is not a lock against a Mets lineup that is slightly better with Beltran back along with Wright in the middle. So Charlie went with his best relievers to try and lock this one down. You do that and then at worst you split the series, but you don't lose it. I don't know what Walker/Durbin would've done, and neither do you.

You're argument though is that Charlie shouldn't have used Myers or Madson or Park because there is a doubleheader tomorrow. He should've foregone his best relievers on the off chance we end up in two close games tomorrow.

As BAP said- that argument maybe comes into play tomorrow. Fact today is the best relievers on the Phillies game didn't get the job done today.

The rest of your stuff is just you not reading what I'm writing and huffing and puffing.

[MG]

One good point a friend made today - Only thing the Phils really didn't do at the deadline was pick up some bullpen help including a guy like Sherill (who has been lights out for the Dodgers and really solidified their bullpen as the best of any of the NL playoff contenders).

Phils were obviously counting on Lidge to right the ship and Myers to potentially provide them with a possible lift in Sept once he came back.

Here's keeping the fingers crossed that the Phils do get a few guys back and maybe a possible move (shifting Happ to the bullpen if Pedro pitches well) gives them enough to have a credible bullpen in the playoffs.

[MG]

TI - Your right I don't know how they (Durbin/Walker) would have done but 4 runs should have been sufficient.

I also don't think that Cholly was planning on using Madson today either. My bet is that he was hoping that Myers could get through the 8th with a scoreless frame and that Lidge could finish the 9th in a non-save situation up 4 runs.

It would be interesting to ask Cholly after the game if he was planning on using Madson today or if the situation was forced by what happened in the 8th inning.

[The Truth Injection]

MG: Here are some fun facts for you regarding Madson today.

Fastball speeds: 93, 94, 95, 93, 95, 95, 96, 94, 95, 95

BRK: 7", 6", 7", 6", 7", 4", 3", 6", 6", 6"

PFX: 13", 11", 11", 12", 13", 12", 13", 10", 11", 12"

Madson on Wednesday:

SPD: 95, 91, 97, 95, 97, 91

BRK: 5", 5", 5", 4", 4", 5"

PFX: 11", 6", 15", 15", 13", 5"

Change-up for today:

SPD: 85, 85

BRK: 7", 8"

PFX: 13", 10"

Change-up Wednesday:

SPD: 85, 85

BRK: 7", 6"

PFX: 12", 10"

So yeah- you're wrong again. The changeup to Wright just got back over the plate too much.

[G-Town Dave]

b_a_p: My argument is that your best relievers are no longer your best option when they're the only guys pitching day in & day out. There comes a time when every pitcher needs a rest, even relievers. If you can't use your 2nd tier bullpen guys up 4 against a terrible Mets team w/ a DH scheduled for the following day, when can you use them? This "best relievers" stuff drives me nuts. You cannot use the same 2 or 3 relievers every single game anymore than you can use your "best" starting pitcher every game.

[limoguy]

Lake Fred posted the most honest and straightforward post I've seen in awhile by simply saying, "I'm at loss at who should close."

Thanks, buddy and, by the way, nobody else does either.

[G-Town Dave]

Myers in '07:

21 Saves

3 Blown Saves

Madson in '09:

7 Saves

6 Blown Saves

If Madson is truly the best closing option the Phillies have, the Phillies are f*cked.

[Old Phan]

All relievers have their moments, but I don't think it's a lot to ask of any major league pitcher to protect a 4 run lead, even the "worst" guy you have in the bullpen (being there are exceptions to every rule, Adam Eaton would be the one I would name)

[bay_area_phan]

G-Town: That's a fair point, but it has no application to Myers or Park. It also ignores the evolving dynamics of the situation.

Park had thrown all of 3 pitches in the last 2 days, and 14 pitches in the last 4. Maybe he could have benefitted from a day of rest but it's not like he has been overused lately and, with an off day on Monday, he should still be available tomorrow. And Myers had thrown all of one 6-pitch inning in the last 3 days. If anything, he needed the work since he's still trying to get himself back in form.

So Cholly went with Myers -- the guy who needed the activity and also happens to be one of our better relievers. Unfortunately, he quickly allowed a 2-run homer, then put the tying run on base. At that point, Cholly no longer had the luxury of going to Durbin or Walker or some other lame reliever. He had to go to his best guy which, for the 8th inning, is Park. Then Park allowed another run to score. Now, all of a sudden, it's a 1-run game in the 9th. Who are you going to use at that point? A rested Jack Taschner or a somewhat overused Ryan Madson?

Basically, the only guy who has been overused, and will now be unavailable tomorrow, is Madson. It's hardly the disaster that people are making it out to be, and it had nothing to do with the outcome of TODAY's game. By the time the 9th inning rolled around, he really had no choice but to use Madson.

[G-Town Dave]

b_a_p: I respect your opinion, but I completely disagree that Charlie had "no choice" but to roll out Madson for the 4th time in 5 days. And of Park, Myers & Madson, the only one I would've used today would have been Park. For example, Walker has pitched exactly once since 4 September, giving up 0 H & 0 R in 1.1 innings a couple of days ago. So why, exactly, couldn't he have pitched the 8th? The guy has an ERA of 1.71 & a WHIP of 0.911, but he can't pitch to the f*cking Mets w/ a 4-run lead? I just don't get it.

[Iceman]

I'm pretty stunned at the double standard by certain posters who are STILL advocating that Madson should close. He was a disaster filling in for Lidge in June and guess what? Given a second chance, he is STILL a disaster.

People were calling for Lidge's head after his second blown save. Madson has blown SIX SAVES in less than 15 chances, twice on two-out go-ahead bombs. I'm sick of hearing the "He had good stuff but bad location" BS. The guy does not have the mentality for the 9th, at least not yet. Running him out there is as bad as running Lidge out there at this point.

We're at the point where the postseason is in serious jeopardy as there is no one left to turn to to finish games. Myers looked rough today, even though this was his first back-to-back appearance since coming off the DL. And we have two headcases who can't get it done in the 9th for different reasons. With Park showing signs of reverting back to early-season form, there is pretty much no one to turn to. I don't envy Charlie, not one bit.

[THe Dude]

Season = Over

[limoguy]

I take positives out of this game. A lot of bats are coming alive at the right time.

Generally, the pitching has been good with today and Blanton's recent start as glaring exceptions.

I look for the hitting to continue and for the pitching staff to hold up its end of the bargain.

That leaves the 9th inning as the only major problem this team has - as it's been all year.

When this is all over, I have a feeling that this is what will kill us and what we will talk about during the off season.

[ozark]

Plan C: Get a key hit every once in a while (including a HR w/ men on base) which translates into a 4+ run lead heading into the 9th. No need for a closer. Case closed.

[G-Town Dave]

(via Zolecki on Twitter): "Ryan Madson is 1-3 with a 7.82 ERA and 7 saves in 13 save opportunities this season. Opponents have hit .352 against him."

[Joel Goodling]

A 1 run lead in the 9th for the Phils this year is about as painful as watching Animal Planet next to Michael Vick.

[BobbyD]

Today is exactly why you don't switch up the entire bullpen just cause you remove the closer. Instead of losing Lidge as closer, you also lose Madsen as setup man. Now you have no setup man and no closer.

[Iceman]

Hahaha, just went back and read through the previous thread. These game threads just keep getting better and better.

The best was hands-down PS's chickensh*t appearance after his team, 18 games out, finally did what we have done to the Mets countless times over the past two+ seasons. And just in time- you staved off playoff elimination for one more day!

I was honestly laughing at the end of the game with K-Rod's antics. I was furious at the loss, to be sure, but his celebration pretty much sums up the meaningless existence of a Met fan: cheer, gloat and be obnoxious when the lights are off. When they come on, you shrivel up, die, and most likely have to be coaxed off the ledge by your mother, who has just made you some nice mac and cheese for dinner.

Honestly, I thought PS might have killed himself. I'm glad to see he's still alive, well, and giving the standard "Just wait til next year!!1!" Met fan line that they've been chanting since 1987 and we specifically have been hearing ever since we sh*t-canned them in '07. Enjoy your continued meaningless existence as a baseball fan, champ, as I cry about our 5 game lead in the division into the World Series Champs sweatshirt I'm wearing.

[Zudok]

By the time this team gets back from that next road trip, they'll be out of first place. We know - because they've shown us - what it takes to win and those key elements aren't consistently there. And we know, because the Mets have shown us, what a freefall looks like. It's underway. (God, I hope I'm wrong.)

[dlhunter]

@Zudok

Retrieve your head from your ass.

[bay_area_phan]

Iceman: I wouldn't really call it a double standard. It's more like a concession that Lidge has simply run out of chances and we don't have many other options. Madson has underwhelmed in the closer's role, to be sure. He, too, is running out of chances. But Myers' stuff simply hasn't looked that good and, if you use Park, you lose your best multi-inning reliever. So you're left to keep trying with Madson. He hasn't been good but he has at least shown flashes by converting a few tough saves. That's more than can be said of Lidge, who has blown almost every tough save opportunity that has come his way this year.

[Rich]

Just got home from the game and I have to say that I am stunned by what I saw. Total breakdown by the bullpen. At this point, I would use Myers as my closer as Madsen just isn't the answer.
This could really get ugly as the Marlins just won't go away. 16 blown saves is an amazing stat that may come back and bite the Phils in the butt.

[valo]

Let's chill.

[G-Town Dave]

Sticking w/ Madson as closer makes about as much sense as going back to Lidge.

[Old Phan]

I long for the good ol days when the only reason you pitched in the bullpen was because you weren't good enough to be a starter.

[Marcus]

Cough*2007 Mets* Cough

[RPIazza31]

Pride cometh before the fall.

Ask a met fan how he knows.…

the Phils might limp into the playoffs or they might go umpteen and oh the rest of the way.… but eiter way I don't think they're the 2000 skankees, which, I'll fill you in for those of you who haven't followed MLB much until late September 2007 (eagles chants anyone?), was the last team to repeat (3-peat in their case). But hey all you have to do is make the playoffs and anything can happen.

it's all good though since i dont think albert pujols will use the f bomb on live tv during their parade so you'll always have the capital F in between "world champions" to treasure forever.

All the gloating the last two plus years well what goes around…

[RSB]

Plan C?

This gem can be found at the end of Andy Martino's game recap:

"Asked which pitcher would be summoned in a potential save situation tomorrow, Manuel blanched, reflecting his frustration with this persistent issue.

'I don't know, OK?' he said, sighing."

Which would be my answer if someone asked if my reaction to this is to laugh or cry...

[Jim Thome]

When it comes to managing a bullpen Cholly is an idiot....plan and simple. He did the same thing in Cleveland.

[RSB]

Well dammit Jim, you're the reason he got hired here in the first place.

[BobbyD]

For a little perspecive:

a) the Phils are 20 games above .500. The Marlins are 10 games above .500

b) no one thought the Phils were going to win the WS this year going in, and we were all right.

[NEPP]

What does everyone do if we go to sleep tomorrow with a 3.5 game lead? That's what will happen if we lose both and the Fish win again.

Would that be the time to start panicking?

[NEPP]

Since Reading was eliminated, can we now call up Mathieson, Rosenberg, and Michael Taylor? Seriously, we need warm bodies with a double header and all 3 could possibly help.

[MG]

BobbyD - If they win the NL East and make the playoffs, I still think it was a very successful season. That was my criteria in the preseason.

Phils have just raised the bar though and people won't be happy if they get dusted in the 1st round though by the Dodgers. Such are raised expectations.

[bob]

Condrey not effective (1IP, 2ER, 1HR) for a Reading team that got swept/blown out in the first round of the playoffs. Hopefully Reading's performance wasn't a harbinger of things to come.

What's with Phillies closers blowing a save after 3 effective outings? Maybe Lidge and Madson should each get 3 and only 3 save chances in a row before rotating to the next guy. Use Myers to setup. When Lidge or Madson aren't pitching, use them in a fashion that allows them to rest their arms, but keep them relatively sharp.

And Madson. In the postgame, he says that it doesn't matter if it's the 8th or 9th inning. But he also says that closing is a such a different animal that it's the reason "closers get paid more than anyone else in the bullpen." ???

And management of the bullpen this year is fraught with stupid machoism. Pitchers aren't being truthful about their injuries or how they feel that day and it's retarded that managers even ask their pitchers that anymore. When Manuel throws them out there repeatedly and they fail, he says, "well, (insert pitcher name) said he felt good." Not saying that every time a reliever fails it's because of injury, but it's clear that pitchers wear down after repeated use and the recovery period is longer for frequent short-term usage. Manuel gets paid the big bucks to make decisions and in this particular case, paternalistic calls on whether pitchers are ready to go. The pitchers in the Phillies bullpen are all "fall on the grenade" guys. That's in general a good thing team-wise. However, it's a negative when it prevents truthful and helpful information in being used to make decisions on whether or not to use a reliever. Manuel should realize this and figure out how his relievers can be utilized most effectively beyond simply asking if they're ready to go. At this point, he's like a manager who's willing to lose the war to win the battle. It's really retarded.

[vegas]

The sun will rise tomorrow.

[Greg V]

Relax people! Kendrick is starting game 1! That's an automatic loss right there! Not sure how game 4 will go but Redding is starting and he kills the Phils! LOL!

[J.R. King]

I was in the car tonight forced to listen to Paul Jolovitz on WIP. He kept repeating the same misleading statistic that Madson had blown 6 saves in 13 chances. He kept saying that, percentage-wise, Madson had blown more saves than Lidge.

I know Jolovitz is mainly a football guy, but shouldn't someone who's paid to talk about sports a basic understanding of baseball statistics, enough to know that save percentage is meaningless for a set-up guy? Even mvptommyd figured it out after people explained it to him.

[gm-carson]

Many people knew Ryan Madson wasn't the man for this job. You can look at stats all you want, but like it or not, there are intangibles in this game. For example, Ryan Madson has great stuff and great numbers in the 8th inning, but come the 9th in a save situation his entire demeanor changes. You can call bullshit on me if you like, but I see if with my eyes. He becomes tentative and unsure of himself and the pitches he's throwing. He simply does not have the mental makeup to be a closer.

Brad Lidge is in the same boat right now. His pitches are still very good, he just lacks the control to get the job done.

The one guy in the pen who has the balls is Brett Myers. Problem being, his arm/body isn't ready to pitch regularly/effectively yet.

[Meyer]

What did Rollins say to Madson before the start of the ninth?

[gm-carson]

"Don't f*cking blow this bitch!"

[i cant stand joe morgan]

second mathesion being called up.

[p. Red]

Phils record when leading after 8 innings:

2008: 79-0
2009: 67-9

Even more telling, leads lost in ninth inning:

2008: 0
2009: 13

Strangely enough, we've only lost 3 8th inning leads this year and last year we lost 10. So the problems really only exist in the 9th inning.

[Patrick]

Positives
1. Phillies have a 5 game lead still.
2. Lineup is starting to score runs without hitting home runs.
3. Re-emergence of Raul
4. Chooch and Felz in the bottom of the order.
5. Jimmy and Vic getting on base and knocking in runs again.

Negatives.
We all know what it is.
Someone needs the cajones to step up and take the reins in commanding fashion as the closer.

[Marc H]

Even if the Phillies manage to limp into the playoffs, it will be 3 and out.

[vegas]

Ok,ok I'll close from now on. Give me the ball.

Looks like Brett will get his chance because he is Plan C.

[gobaystars]

On the bright side the less balanced fans will be occupied from 1pm today until April.

[EastFallowfield]

Yo, new thread

[jr]

Why more call-ups? UC doesn't use the players we have now. Same old same old.