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Tuesday, October 27, 2009


This will be high drama, if nothing more. Pedro can handle the pressure and will be looking for redemption.

Very shocked. Hopefully Cole doesn't get his panties in a bunch about this.

Shocking. It seems unlike Charles to show a lack of confidence in Hamels. I love Pedro, but I think this is a mistake.

I'm a nervous wreck.

I think it's the right choice. Pedro can andle himself in the bronx.

Cole needs everything going his way to pitch well.

Maybe it will motivate Cole to prove that he is still a top of the rotation pitcher.

I like the move. Pedro loves pitching on the big stage and I have more confidence in him to pitch at Yankee Stadium than I do Cole Hamels at this point. Phillies in 5 fellas. The Yankees don't realize that they are overmatched in this series. Even if I'm wrong about the number of games, I just can't see this Phillies team losing 4 times.

We win this series and we walk together forever. Can't wait to see J-Roll parading down Broad St. wearing Harry's baby blue sport coat and white loafers.

For anyone not to 'trust the gut' by now, just needs to let it go. Won't even bother second guessing this and just hope it all works out for the best.

Season has been way too long, I'm officially a blind follower from this point forward.

Oh boy.

Well, I really, really, really hope it doesn't work out anywhere close to how it did then...because i remember that moment of the presser and remember thinking, "Gee...that's sux. I'd hate to be a Red Sox fan and have Pedro say something like that...sure glad we, as Phillies Phans, don't have to deal with that."....

It's unfortunate that we have to pitch the guy who was last seen serving up 3 HRs in 4 1/3 innings to LA at all in this series.

FoxSports Dayne Perry (like all the lemmings headed for the cliff, Cliff Lee that is!) picks the (shocked) Yanks. Read it here:,-but-it's-close

His best quote is this one:

"Manuel is the better manager, and it's not a particularly close call." I thought Girardi was a genius and Cholly, well, is Cholly!

Pedro earned it. Hamels is too distracted looking for the right panties and dress for his next start.....he is such a diva and puss. He is no pedro or carlton.....something went wrong on his quest for the hall of fame....he is still looking for that cy young........10 wins won't get it done cole.

I think this a good decision for several reasons.

1.) Starting Cole Game 3 will be less pressure. If we lose Game 1, Cole is going to have a huge amount of pressure to be the stopper in Game 2 in the Bronx. It is better to start Cole Game 3 @ CBP, with hopefully a 1-1 series.

2.) Pedro is pitching better than Hamels up to this point in the playoffs.

3.) Pedro is a career 8-4 with a 2.95 ERA @ Yankee Stadium, while Cole has never pitched there and now is no time to make his first start there when he is obviously not 100% mentally or physically.

Good move by Charlie, his thinking on this one is 100% logical.

70% chance of rain in New York on Wednesday.

The Yanks have to be praying for no rain tomorrow. Otherwise, Chad Gaudin will pitch in this series and those grand plans NY seems to have with their 3 man starting staff, go out the window.

Pedro will be fine. Hamels hasn't earned the 2nd spot in the rotation. Pedro has.

...Cole has never pitched there...

wrong. he pitched there on May 24.

Cole pitched in the series in may.

I am going to be a 'beer leaguer' for Halloween. What do I need to get the "socks up" look right? Like this:

JRoll on Leno last night: "Of course we're gonna win. If we're nice, we'll let it go six, but I'm thinking five, close it out at home.">Link to 700 Level post and Video

denny - We saw what happened last year when it rains in the World Series. Unless there's a Nor Easter on the way, I'd be surprised if any games in this series get PPD.

Pete Happy, thanks for the link to Jimmy on Jay Leno. The 700 Level always has something of interest and is a nice site. Thank you. Don't worry Jason, in my Top Ten, BL is still no. 1, though.

I'd rather have Pedro star at home--no DH. He's a helluva bunter.

We already had Hamels before a huge game telling the media that he didn't like pitching in a day game. I'd go with the guy that says he'll do anything to help his team. Yankee Stadium or not, Pedro will have his game face on until it's time to spray the champagne. Trust Uncle Chollie.

Ryno on the SI cover this week.

Actually Cholly is sly like a fox. (I can't believe I'm writing this!) He's playing Cole in Philly to utilize his bat in the lineup, to give us an advantage over the Yankees batting poor AL pitchers.

Awesome. Waiting for the issue to arrive. It's nice to see Phillies back in the spotlight.

Deeply satisfying story about Mets fans' dilemma in this Series.

I think Manuel's making the right move. Hamels has been better at home by a good margin, has had some trouble in the post-season / Pedro was fantastic last time out, plus, Pedro at the plate is awful / Hamels holds his own.

LOVE this.

Stay classy, NY Post.

Good move and no surprise.

I won't lie, that Post picture made me laugh.

BREAKING NEWS! According to my secretary, the Phillies and their fans are going to be "cryin'" because JayZ is singing the national anthem for Game 1.

Yes, this is the sort of stuff up with which I have to put.

I'm still trying to think of a way to fire her.

Oh, and Porkyface - you really need to stop sugar coating your posts.

good move, save hamels for the home field...pedro is better suited to pitch in new york, with blanton, happ et al in case he struggles.......hamels is better at home.......


Pedro, 2001: "I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass."

You have to assume that when Pedro signed with us, this was his #1 ideal scenario. Pitching in the Bronx in the WS with the chance to take his old nemesis out. I feel like he rises to the occasion.

Pedro has been destroyed by the Yankees in post-season, something no poster here will acknowledge (if we close our eyes and pretend hard enough...) but that could end up as a positive if Pedro takes it as a challenge.

The worst case scenario for this decision would be if Pedro gets lit up yet again and Hamels, undermined by Manuel's lack of confidence, gives us a weak performance in Game 3.

Keep in mind also, unless I'm reading BB-Ref wrong, Cliff Lee has never pitched on 3 days rest. Never.

Best case: Pedro sees this as the challenge of a lifetime and gives us 7 IP, 2 R. Hamels, seeking redemption before the home crowd, does the same in Game 3.

If the Phillies offense can't score 4-5 runs a game off the Yankees SP, they deserve to lose.

Well, as we have learned over the last 4 seasons, as the at first innacurate perception of the Phillies manager, our own Charlie Manuel, has "morphed" from a Foghorn Leghorn country bumpkin to a WFC winning manager who has now outmanaged Dale Sveum, Joe Torre, 'cerebral' Joe Maddon, Jim Tracy and Joe Torre (again? - no way!) in 5 successive playoff series, as Phillies fans it is best to


The NY Post is a good paper - for me to poop on.

I'm not sure why Cholly wanting Hamels to start Game 3 instead of 2 implies a lack of confidence. Perhaps he feels that Game 3 at home is a better situation for Cole to pitch in. It isnt as if he is taking him out of the rotation.

In Re: NY Post cover picure. Can anyone read the caption to the picture? I found the picture relatively amusing, but I don't understand what they're trying to get across -- other than "The Frillies." That can't be the joke can it? If so, that's pretty lame.

Kutztown Fan: We'll be cryin all right--because he's terrible. He should have stayed in retirement.

In Re: Cole to pitch Game 3. Love the move. I think it makes the most sense. Cholly seemingly tries to put his players in the best position to win, even at the expense of their egos. Cole pitching at home in a slightly less homerun-prone ballpark with the fans behind him rather than against him, I think is huge. I think it bodes well for Cole and, in turn, the Phils.

Prediction: Pedro throws a beauty in Game 2.

When facing LHP 2 days in a row, Yanks have feasted on 2nd LHP this year. Also, Cole would be slated to go in Game 7 if necessary, so I don't think Charlie has no confidence in him.

Jay-Z is performing the National Anthem? (I refuse to saying "singing") That would be awful! I like Jay-Z, quite a bit actually, but this makes no sense. Are we sure he isn't just performing during the pre-game or something like that?

What would you say a Frilly is?

I'm doing my rain dance tomorrow. The Phils' deep rotation is an asset and a postponement of game 1 (eliminating the off day) will expose the lack of depth in the NY rotation.

A-Train: Has it been confirmed that a postponement will lead to taking away an off day? Or will they just move everything back in order to preserve the (seemingly unnecessary) travel days? I haven't heard either way, just curious.

This is what the NY News sees when it thinks of Victorino:

This is what CC sees when he thinks of Victorino:


"Pedro is a career 8-4 with a 2.95 ERA @ Yankee Stadium."

That was a different stadium. The new stadium is the bandbox to top all bandboxes. Pedro seems ill-suited to pitch there, due to his fly ball tendencies.

To be honest, I don't much care whether it's Pedro, Hamels, or Blanton who pitches Game 2. I don't have much confidence in any of them. The Phils will have to win this series with their bats.

A Frilly is any Dodgers Fan. Could you believe the number of empty seats those bums left to start a PLAYOFF game?

As for Pedro pitching, from a purely storyline standpoint, I'm loving it. You've got 2 ex teammates and ex Cy Young winners facing off against each other in game 1, then Pedro returns to the Bronx to pitch against his Nemesis in game 2, then the World Series MVP of 2008 pitches the first home game for his team.

It doesn't get much better than that if you're trying to market this series.

"The worst case scenario for this decision would be if Pedro gets lit up yet again and Hamels, undermined by Manuel's lack of confidence, gives us a weak performance in Game 3."


No wonder clout thinks of himself as a genius. The worst case scenario is for Pedro and Hamels to both get hammered.


R. Billingsly: Mike & Mike said this morning that Jay-Z is performing some song he wrote about NY (I blocked out the title, sorry) that they've been playing at the stadium all year. It mentions Yankee in it a million times; that's all I know. Alicia Keys will assist in the "song." She's the one singing the nat'l anthem.

No lack of confidence by Cholly. Any way you shake it, Cole Hamels is pitching the third game of the World F------ Series against the number one team in baseball (during regular season).

I have my problems with Pedro but all will be forgiven if he drops ARod on his ass in his first AB. Doesnt have to hit him, just put the fear of God into him.

Please, please, PLEASE.

JayZ's "performance" has as much to do with the outcome of the game as does Kate Hudson's attendance. It gives the non-baseball fans something to talk about while the rest of us watch the game.

I could sit next to Yankee fan who is knowledgable of the game and enjoy myself. If I had to sit next to one of these bandwagon jumpers, I'd have to choke them slowly and pleasurably to death.

Oh, and if Wednesday's game is rained out, I think they'll eliminate the travel day. Think about it. Having them play on the scheduled travel day only screws up one TV schedule. Putting in another travel day screws up several TV schedules.

By pitching Hamels third, Charles is demoting Hamels from the second place in the rotation. Do I think it's a big deal? No. But usually Charles' approach is to make moves that express confidence that his players will get the job done, and to put them in position to prove themselves.

Hopefully, Hamels won't view this as some sort of demotion, or at least let it affect his performance - but I'm surprised that Charles made the move.

R. Billingsly,

I haven't heard anything official. I'm just going on what they've done in the past. Last year, our esteemed commissioner said the travel day was eliminated if the Rays won game 5. Game 6 was to start as scheduled.

If Hamels views it as a demotion to be pitching game 3 of the WS, he doesn't deserve to be pitching even game 3.

Phlipper - do we have to call him "Charles" now that he's managing in his second consecutive WS? Or are you channeling Peppermint Patty?

If it goes 7 games, and Charlie doesn't use Lee on short rest, Cole will have his full rest from the Saturday game 3 start. If Charlie is working backwards from game 7, he's showing a lot of confidence in Cole.

Jay-Z will be performing "Empire State of Mind," not the national anthem. CC Sabathia, hopefully, will be performing "gopherball state of mind," starring Shane Victorino

OK, why are the Phillies players and media talking about Yankee Stadium as the "cathedral of baseball" still? This is not the old Yankee Stadium; this new one is about as intimidating as a fluffy, white kitten. The fans are fairly far away from the action--it doesn't get as loud--it's hideously expensive (although, from what I hear, it's cheaper to get WS tix there than in Philly) and the ball flies out of there as fast or faster than it does in CBP.

More myths. The "Yankee Mystique". Please. Intangible BS. Stick to the facts. If the Phillies are intimidated by this crap, I'll be extremely surprised and disappointed.

If Hamels can't understand that 1) Manuel wants to break up his lefties, 2) he needs to maximize the 9 hole in the first home game, and 3) he wants to have Hamels ready to go in game 7, if necessary, he can go and sulk about a "demotion". It's about winning four games. I can't see him losing that focus due to some concern over whether he's "no. 2". He has to worry about getting people out. That's all.

Cipper, well done!

doubleh and others: Thank God.

Thanks for the info.

Hugh, has Hamels sulked about this? I haven't heard. The only people sulking are the ones who don't want Pedro to pitch Game 2.

WHYY is just starting an hour of talk about the Phils, if anyone is interested. FM 90.9

You want to see a group of gentlemen ready to take care of some business? Check these guys out.

[JC knows how to get things done!]

Hmm, I don't know if anyone is interested, but my wife took video of all the Phillies getting on the train yesterday. You can check it out if you like:

This makes all the sense in the world:

1) Hamels pitches much better at home.
2) It splits up the lefties.
3) If Hamels pitches well, he can come back on 3-days rest if necessary to pitch Game 6 or he can pitch Game 7 on full rest.
4) If Pedro had pitched Game 3, there's little chance he'd have come back on short rest.
5) Hamels' bat is superior to Pedro's.

I like the move. Charlie has worked hard in recent weeks to put his players in the best position to succeed (like Lidge against just RHB). This move puts Hamels in the best position to succeed.

clout: How relevant is Pedro's career playoff numbers vs. the Yankees? The only two Yankees still on the team from those matchups are Jeter and Posada. I'd think that Pedro's career numbers against the current players on the Yankees is significantly more relevant, and he's pitched pretty well against them.

Old Phan - not to my knowledge, he hasn't. It seems some expect the pitching order to be a blow to his psyche. I doubt that it is.

I knew the post was a rag, but really... really...?

"The only people sulking are the ones who don't want Pedro to pitch Game 2."

Probably the same wise observers who were

1. shocked and upset when we signed Pedro
2. shocked and upset when he was promoted to the big club
3. shocked and upset when he got Geezer's starts and
4. shocked and upset when Cholly wanted to start him ahead of Happ in the playoffs.

CJ: Pedro also pitches better at home; in fact, his home-away splits are a lot more stark than Hamels'. And why is splitting the lefties important? It evidently wasn't important in the NLDs or NLCS.

I think people are over-analyzing this. Pedro pitched great in his one playoff appearance. Hamels has pitched poorly for 6 starts in a row. If you need a reason why Pedro is starting Game 2, and Hamels isn't, you need look no further than that.

HH- Yeah, I heard Werth talk about the Cathredral last night on the news and had the same reaction.
But, I think maybe it's just a case of giving the media what they want to hear .

The NY Post cover caption says, "Only in the City of Brotherly Love could Shane Victorino pass for aslugger. Make way for the Bronx Bombers, you Phillie Phrauds!"

I'm psyched about Pedro. (Nice points, CJ.)

I must say... I'm somewhat surprised that Yankees fans have not made their way to our beloved BL.

Yankee fans have no idea there's a world outside NY, Deutsche Phan

loctastic, nice video. I think your wife likes Werth! My youngest daughter thinks Madson is "cute", while my oldest daughter wears an Utley jersey she bought with her own money!

Was Jeter on that 1950s team? Ha ha. I think the Yankees have some old guys who might tighten up in the cooler weather.

On Pedro starting game 2, I can still remember the debates on BL about whether Pedro should even be on the starting rotation ahead of either Happ and/or Moyer.

JayZ will be performing Empire State of Mind. I prefer this version of it myself.

That sure gets me pumped


1) The home/road split numbers for Pedro are a little misleading. His home starts included 2 IP, 3 IP and 4 IP along with two starts against offensively challenged Giants and Mets. Again, we're talking about a pretty significant sample size issue here.

2) Someone said above that the Yankees feasted on the 2nd lefty when facing two lefties in a row. I'll see if I can confirm that.

Yeah, she loves Werth. Nice observation. We have tickets in RF, then one day she woke up with a crush on him. I can't fight it, he's also tall and dumb, so at least her tastes are consistent.

Cole is an overgrown child in terms of maturity. I'd be MUCH happier seeing him pitch in Philly than under the pressure of Yankee Stadium in the World Series.

This isn't Tampa Bay, and Cole's performance isn't 2008.

"Someone said above that the Yankees feasted on the 2nd lefty when facing two lefties in a row."

I'd like to see those splits too. And not just the splits, but the actual game logs behind them. Sounds to me like the type of stat that could easily be a fluke. Besides, Lee & Hamels are completely different types of pitchers. They might both be left-handed but that is literally the only thing they have in common.

On another note, I find it very interesting to learn that, with four 30-homerun hitters in our lineup, we Phillie fans think of Shane Victorino as a slugger.

The Phillies aren't playing against Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, and Mantle. They're playing the 2009 version of the Yankees in a stadium with a right field porch built for Howard, Utley, and Ibanez.

The media can take the "Yankee Mystique" and cram it with walnuts.

I'm with BAP on this one. All this rationalizing about WHY Charles is going with Pedro don't add up to me. I'm not buying the "splitting the lefties" logic at all.

Charles is saying he has more confidence in Pedro than he does in Hamels, and that is why Pedro is the #2 starter and Hamels is the #3 starter. And I find that to be somewhat at odds with Charles' usual MO as manager.

Do I think that Hamels' performance is likely to be affected? No. He might be negatively affected by a lack of confidence by Charles. Or, he might take it as a challenge and focus that much more. It's impossible to get into the head of a professional player, let alone speculate about how their psyche is going to affect their performance.

Well, I've cemented my wager with my old college roomate in NYC. Loser has to:
- Visit the winning city during parade
- Bring a case of local beer (& cheesesteak or pizza)
- Wear winner's championship t-shirt
- Take picture with said shirt and display as facebook profile for a month

Please let us take down the Evil Empire!!!

BAP: You are right on the money. The decision really is that simple.

Interesting thread. Depending on the point you wish to make, you can choose from: Pedro's career stats, Pedro's career playoff stats, Pedro's career Yankee stats, Pedro's Yankee playoff stats, Pedro's 2009 stats, Pedro's 2009 playoff stats, Pedro's 2009 home-away stats.... Numbers for everyone!

NYPost... among the reasons NY is better than Phila...Kate hudson is a better mascot than the phanatic...funny. i sure hope they crank up the black crowes music every time arod steps to the plate.

According to Murphy:

"New York faced lefthanded starters in back-to-back games 13 times this season, and in three straight games four times. In those instances, when facing a lefty starter for the first time, the Yankees scored 72 runs while hitting .278 and drawing 49 walks. The second day, they scored 74 runs while hitting .303 and drawing 59 walks. And in the four times they played a third straight game against a lefty starter, they scored 26 runs while hitting .327 and drawing 23 walks."

I feel pretty confident that that none of us really knows the mind of Charlie relating to this decision, and for that matter, we are not privy to information that is probably most relevant to him including how each pitcher has looked in recent workouts, conversations they have had with him, and of course, his gut. I do have a theory. It is my understanding that the cast of Glee will be singing the Anthem at Game 3. This would seem to be a much more inspiring moment for Hollywood Hamels than for a distinctly grizzled and slightly wacky veteran like Pedro.

yo, new thread!

That NY Post article was some piece of trash. I can't believe an actual paper would produce something like that and I'm not really sure what they are aiming for with it--more violence from the Philly faithful?

Blogs aren't killing the newspapers; "journalists" are doing just find on their own.

This comes off like a fanbase that is bitter from being beaten too often instead of a fanbase that's supposedly "elitist" and the "best fans in the world".

This kind of stuff makes my blood boil, because it seems to be the last bastion of acceptable people-bashing and stereotyping that exists in this world.

hamels is such a baby....based on his recent performance I would send his sorry ass to the bullpen.

Seth Everett of MLB Home Plate said that he had picked the Phillies in 6......After Charlie made Pedro the game two starter, he changed his mind to the Yankees in six, maybe even five!

Not sure I agree that the game 2 starter turns the series that dramatcally but it is intersting how it changed the mind of a decent baseball analyst.

Pedro is pitching for 2 reasons. The opposition hasnt scored more than 3 earned runs on Pedro in ages and he provides a rival distraction for the Yanks, regardless if they'll admit it or not. Anyway, I found some sweet Phillies merch at this site today! great deals!!

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