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Wednesday, January 06, 2010


I see Wang being a cheaper, and thus more likely, option for the Phils. Total shot in the dark, but maybe a $3-4 million base, with incentives going up to $6.5 or so?

Could the Phillies afford even that?

Part of my comment got clipped out above. After listing the lesser FA SPs I wrote "Davis, Pedro & Padilla are also likely out of the Phils price range. Prior is a huge injury risk."

Which leaves Looper, Redding and Wellemeyer.

Like I have said last thread, the Phillies have $2-4 million left after the arb. cases and/or re-signings.

Why would they sign a 5th starter when Moyer could still be the starter? Come on people, please.

Your 2010 rotation will be Halladay,Hamels,Blanton,Happ, Moyer/Kendrick

Jack: If some of our back-of-the-envelope posters are right, the Phils have $3M left to spend. That puts Wang out of range, especially since Rube says he wants to add another reliever. I am guessing roughly 750k for the reliever (Eyre?) and $2.25M for the SP.

I think I see RA simply keeping in touch with these pitcher's agents, simply so that if the pitchers' demands come down come Spring Training, they can pounce. As their demands sit now, I can't imagine the Phils can afford them.

Another day, same old BLer "Money grows on trees" mentality.

mvptommy: My guess is that Rube would like another SP because 1. Moyer may not be healthy at season's start and 2. KK may be more useful in the bullpen.

Tommy: What? Who was saying "money grows on trees"?

"$2.25M for the SP"

clout, again I ask, why do we NEED to sign a 5th starter? They have Moyer they are paying for that. Also, don't you want money to spend at the trade deadline?

Jack: Because everyone is discussing a SP, when we only have between 2-4 million left to spend. Also, have Moyer under contract AND Kendrick who can do the job.

Save some money for the trade deadline.

I just don't understand how Chan Ho Park sees himself fitting in somewhere as a starter. Give me a break.

From the previous thread:

clout, I hadn't thought of Prior.

He would be a nice MiL signing, maybe on a split contract.

With his injury history/risk he may not get offered a MLB contract.

If he, through some minor miracle, somehow manages to stay healthy and effective, he would be a pretty decent addition for just about evey MLB club, with the exception of maybe BOS and ATL.

Any word on his status?

JW: I think Amaro has concluded that even if Park signs somewhere as a reliever, his performance in that role last year has earned him a salary in the 3-5 million range, which is more than we're willing to pay, when we already have a setup guy in Madson and just signed Baez.

"Why would they sign a 5th starter when Moyer could still be the starter? Come on people, please."

Because Phillies GM Ruben Amaro said he was still considering signing another starter?

If I were Scott Eyre and/or his agent, this is what I would be thinking:

"If I can't get a major league contract right now because teams are worried about the effects of the surgery, then I am probably better off waiting until I can throw again and demonstrate that I'm healthy. I really want to go back to Philly, but I've been around a long time and I feel I deserve a major league contract. If I'm healthy I'm one of the better LOOGYs in the game - of which there are not too many good ones, and if teams see me throw I will get a major league deal from someone."

That's what I would be thinking.

BB: Did he say that after yesterday? Maybe Vogelsong is there starter? Maybe it will be another guy like him? Why does it have to be a guy like posters are saying?

They simply don't have the money.

* should be "their" not "there" in previous post.

Don't know that I'm prepared to go down the road with Myers again. I'd just as soon go with Redding, who might be half the price and just as good.

MVP: Yes, he was quoted saying that. Maybe Voglesong is who he had in mind, but that's not my opinion. My guess this will be a case of wait and see: Just maybe one of the better injured pitchers remains available and becomes desperate.

tommy, I agree that as things stand now the competition for the 5th spot will be Moyer, Kendrick and a couple of dark horses with very, very low odds.

And I agree about the budget constraints.

However, you seem to be ignoring the fact that Moyer will probably not be ready to start the season, and that he may not be effective when he returns.

Kendrick, as clout noted above, may be preferred in the bullpen.

So, if you were the FO, wouldn't you still be trying to build some depth within the organization?


One thing that really needs to be said on this board is this:

There is in NO...guarantee that the following pitchers are going to be able to come back from surgery and pitch effectively:

Eyre (if he's re-signed)

So, let's suppose they're not effective and get DL'd for a long spell. Here's what the staff looks like (names taken from the Inky article):

Kendrick\Spot Starter?

Baez - closer!/?


Is that a bullpen that inspires a lot of confidence?

So tommy, I can see why they would like to add another SP for depth, and I can also see Kendrick's apparent value in the 'pen.

What are your thoughts?

From the last thread:

Grand Slam Single~ I say 'Shame on him" (Beltre) for this reason: If he turned down 24 million to come and play for the 2-time defending NL champs and '08 Series winner to sign a 1-yr $9 million deal, then that's his mistake. If he didn't want to play here then we didn't need him anyway. I'll say it again, Polanco wanted to play here, Rube got him here. Good job by both guys.

Kendrick's a fringe starter, not a reliever.

Dom, you can't say that Beltre values winning less than Polanco. After all, he did sign with Boston.

He does appear to value money more than being in a stable and winning situation - or at least his agent does.

BB: Ehhh, I wouldn't hold my breath...

AWH: My thoughts are that I agree with everything you said. Alot hinges on the fact of Lidge and Romero returning and pitching well. But as we agreed to yesterday, Lidge CAN'T be any worse and Romero should improve the bullpen regardless. Moyer isn't a gaurentee, however they due owe him 6.5 million I believe. They also owe Eaton still 500 K believe it or not.

Also, we know Monty has set a budget and we also know that Rube will want money for the trade deadline.

I like everyone else would LOVE them to take a flyer on a starter, but given what I said above, it isn't likely.

Unless he gets hurt, Beltre made a pretty good decision. It's not like he took the money to play for KC.

MVP: That's the problem: You never seem to hold your breath.

>Kendrick's a fringe starter, not a reliever.

Kendrick has to prove his usefulness as a starter again. He pitched like a man posessed down the stretch, and I would probably give him the lead for 5th starter competition.

Although, Chien Ming Wang, if healthy, is a steal.

And can we sign Redding just to stash him in LV? Really, he can beat the phils, but THATS IT.

I know he's burned bridges but based on pure talent I would bring back Myers. He has fantastic stuff (see second half 2008) for a number 3 or 4 and has the experience to help in the later innings if needed. Plus he may take a discount to come back to philly.

Although if he were available i'd be really excited to bring on Sheets. That'd be a sick top of the rotation - potentially

I want me some Wang. Real bad.


tommy, you say that Lidge "can't be any worse" and Romero "should improve the bullpen regardless"..

The entire point of my post is that there DOES exist the possibility that neither of those pitchers will ever throw another effective pitch at the MLB level again.

In that case they both could be "worse".

I'm not saying it will happen, but the risk is evident, just as the risk of reinjury is exists. Just ask Mark Prior or Scott Mathieson about reinjury.

Believe me, I'm not a doomsday type of guy, but the scenario I outlined above tells me that they need to add some more depth if they can - obviously within the budget constraints Ruben is under.

I wonder if Dave Montgomery and ownership are willing to miss another trip to the WS over the additional $1-2 MM/yr it might take to add another reliever, say like Calero, if, indeed, that is what it would take?

My hope for the new year is that Roy and Kyle become inseparable pals and that Kyle begins to flavor his pitches with that Halladay seasoning.

tommy, to add to my preious post, IF the doomsday I outlined above occurs, I'd be a lot happier with the bullpen if it looked like this(pick 3 of the last 4):

Baez - closer!/?

OTOH, if Lidge and Romero are healthy and effective the bullpen would look like this:


and pick one of the following:


AWH: By your outline, aka "Worst case scenario" you are pleading with the owners to spend more money on relievers to cover their backs "if" the pitchers don't work out (which by interviews I have heard with Monty, Lidge and Romero are doing fine and should be ready by opening day).

Bullpens are NEVER a sure thing. That is why it doesn't make sense to spend extra money on it.

Also, your doomsday prediction of "those pitchers(Lidge and Romero) will ever throw another effective pitch at the MLB level again" is a bit much, no?

From the last thread:

Clout: "NEPP: Which SP, praytell, could the Phillies sign for $1-3M?"

No idea, that's why I'm not the GM. Between now and April, I would suspect that at least 1-2 legit players will drop into that range when the music stops and all the other chairs are full. It happens every year.

I would only bother with a high reward type pitcher like Sheets. No sense of getting Redding/Wellemeyer types.

And if they are out of the price range, than just let Kendrick handle the 5th spot as he should. He'll be double digit wins in 2010.

****He'll be double digit wins in 2010.****

I fully expect that if you add up his wins from Lehigh and Philly that he'll have at least 10. Afterall he was a 12 game winner last year (9 in Lehigh, 3 in Philly).

A doomsday with a healthy Halladay, Hamels, Utley, Howard, Rollins, Werth, Vic, etc... is a doomsday I can live with.

double digit MLB wins. I'd say... at least 25 starts needed.

Phils love hitting for him.

" I would suspect that at least 1-2 legit players will drop into that range when the music stops and all the other chairs are full. It happens every year"

Terrific. And in July when we have 0 dollars to spend on a trade if we need it, you will still hold firm with your stance that signing a starter was the right thing to do?

I think one way we land a decent starter is if one of them decides "hey I can make 5 mil a year getting no support from a terrible team, but maybe I should take a 3mil/1 year deal from a good Phillies team that can at least make me look good with that offense, then cash in next winter"

I'm rooting for it no matter how unlikely it is

MVP, there's always a little bit of money available for mid-season moves. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Besides, at mid-season, a $5 million player only costs $2.5 million.

Here's a radical idea - save a little money for a mid-season acquisition.

At this point, the Phillies roster and payroll should be set. If they want to add some high risk/high reward guys signed to minor league contracts, I'm all for it. Otherwise, if there is a little money left, let's save it for when we actually have identified a need, in the middle of the season, instead of speculating forever about possible injuries to the rotation or BP.

NEPP: Yea but we only have between 2-4 remaining in the budget for the year.

That's exactly why it makes sense to hold onto the money.

Rube said "around $140 million" back in Nov. That could also mean $142, $143 M, etc.

If we really need a piece at mid-season or we're cruising and he wants to add another piece because its clear we're making the playoffs (read: more revenue), they'll make a move.

T Mac: Exactly what I have been saying all morning. But apparently some BLers like AWH feel like we need a 5th starter and more bullpen help. I say save the money.

With this lineup, you could probably pull up any starter from AA or AAA, and if you gave them 25 starts, they'd get 5-8 wins.

Also, Kendrick and Halladay could become inseparable lovers and get married in Massachusetts, and still Kendrick would have no chance of matching Halladay's stuff.

Doc's wife would probably be pissed by that scenario.

NEPP: Yea I know. "Around $140 million". Right now the payroll is at $120.5 million including the Baez signing. Arb. cases/re-signings will take up about 18 million. Now we are sitting at $138.5. So even IF we say they go to $143 million. You are only left with about 4.5 million for the year.

I doubt we sign anyone till Rube has taken care of the Arb cases. If we're sitting at $136 M instead of $138, things get a bit more interesting.

NEPP: True, but $136 is a big low-ball amount. We are at 120.5 mil now. Blanton will get 7, Vic will get 6, Durbin will get about 2.5, Ruiz about 1 million, plus renewing some little contracts of guys like Kendrick and BAM! you are sitting at about 138.5 million.

OMG. Spring training can't get here soon enough.

I think Ruiz gets a bit more than $1 million and that Durbin gets less than $2.5 (closer to $2 million as he was terrible in 09).

I still think they might try to extend Vic on a 2-3 year deal to mitigate the salary issues. I won't be stunned if Chooch is given a multi-year deal too (with a very low base contract this year).

Rube's been pretty creative salary wise so far with these types of cases.

"doomsday prediction"

tommy, "prediction"? Who made a prediction?

Need I remind you by quoting myself:

"Predictions? Predictions? awh don't make no stinkin' predictions."

Possibilities? Possibilities? awh DOES discuss possibilities.

HoF Results will be released today:

My guess is that Dawson, Blyleven, and Alomar all get the call.

Larkin also has a good chance.

NEPP: Yea, I agree. But the thing is, if you backload a 3 yr. deal for Vic, Chooch or Blanton you have to remember that next year is actually the "killer" year. So if you backload contracts in order to sign a 5th starter/reliever then you are pretty much kissing Werth good-bye already.

If you give them deals spread evenly, you at least have a chance to ponder how to be creative to keep Werth.

awh: Ahh, don't be a weasel on me. You said a scenario and what the result of that scenario would be. In my world, that is a prediction.

tommy, please show me where, in my post, I used the word "prediction".

I am not "pleading" for the FO to spend more of my season ticket money on relief pitchers.

I am simply outlining a worst case scenario, which, while being of very low 'probability', is still a 'possibility'.

AAMOF, in one of my posts I typed " there DOES exist the possibility".

Only in "The World of mvptommyd" does "possibility" mean "prediction".

awh: Ok, so with the 2-4 million remaining it is "possible" they sign another releiver and/or 5th starter to some. Will you be complaining come July when we have no money to spend on trades because we went OVER the budget of $140 million?

If your answer is "yes" then we should stay as we are regardless of your "possibility".

If your answer is "no" then they should send ALL the budget to upgrade the team now.

What is your answer?

"Dom, you can't say that Beltre values winning less than Polanco. After all, he did sign with Boston."

AWH~ I din't say that. Just merely pointing out that beltre would be crazy to tun down that kind of money given his injury history and the current enconomy.


They'll have whatever money they need when and if they need it. If a player they want, who wants to play here, who fills a need at a reasonable price, I believe they'll do it.

I agree with reigning in on the financial expectations of the Phillies, but this "OMG they'll have no $$ midseason" stuff is ridiculous. We're all working with what Amaro has said publicly, but we really don't know what their plans are.

My guess is they won't be adding a MAJOR $ player at the trade deadline, but will a few million keep them from taking a shot at a guy to solidify their lead/get them over the hump? I don't think so. Relax.

Phils sign a low-cost starter option before spring training and another arm on a split deal for the bullpen. AND, if necessary, the Phils make a move or moves at the trade deadline.

The budget is what it is... but we all know that few budgets in the world exist with hard caps.

tommy, I just had to go back and check up on myself:

"So, if you were the FO, wouldn't you still be trying to build some depth within the organization?"........

"So tommy, I can see why they would like to add another SP for depth"
awh 10:42 AM

"I'm not saying it will happen, but the risk is evident"....

"the scenario I outlined above tells me that they need to add some more depth if they can - obviously within the budget constraints Ruben is under."
awh 11:14 AM

" IF the doomsday I outlined above occurs"
awh 11:19 AM

Yep, a lot of "IFs" and "coulds" add up to a "prediction". :)

BTW, tommy. I'm merely in agreement with Amaro, being as he was quoted thus in this morning's DL by Murphy, after a lengthly discussion of SP options:

"If we have our druthers, we'll perhaps sign somebody," Amaro said.

No one is saying break the bank, tommy. But I think you are being a bit naive if you think this team won't benefit from adding depth.

I would like to see Tyler Walker coming back to the bullpen. He would be cheap and could probably be had on a split deal. Maybe even Clay Condrey too.

While I'd like to see the Phillies go get a starter like Sheets, Bedard, Wang, or even Pedro I don't see that happening.


You echo my sentiments exactly. If they want it, need it, they'll get it.

"awh: Ok, so with the 2-4 million remaining it is "possible" they sign another releiver and/or 5th starter to some. Will you be complaining come July when we have no money to spend on trades because we went OVER the budget of $140 million?"

tommy, do you really believe, that if this team is in contention in July, that they won't go over "budget" to get a player they need to either win the division or make it back to the WS? If anything, the FO (Montgomery and ownership) have learned the last 2 years that a deep playoff run makes up for a lot, and has monetary rewards (you can speculate as to how much).

So I will wanswer your question thus:

I think you're setting up a false choice.

This team hasn't operated that way the last 2 years. As evidence I offer up the names of Joe Blanton and Cliff Lee.

It is my belief that the budget they have discussed publicly is their budget GOING INTO the season, and that they will have the flexibility to add salary if need be.

So, no, I will not be complaining nor do I believe I will have any reason to complain.

You may be complaining about my lack of complaining, but I won't be complaining. Complain about that.

Help me remember if they used the same line last year (not being able to go above a certain spending limit) and then wham, traded for Lee?

Philspah, I agree I could see the Phils bringing back a guy like walker, and I think that would make a good bit of sense.

I could also see the Phils signing a guy like Davis to a 1 year deal at <5mm. Given that Davis was 9 - 14 last year, is 34 (i think), and never won more than 13 games in one season he doesn't seem like he would ever get paid #2-#3 type starter money. Randy Wolf signed 2 one year deals for around 5mm, so it isn't unheard of. Maybe playing for a team like the Phils would give a guy like Davis to rack up a high win total relative to his career and maybe get one more multi-year deal before retiring. Now, when I say could happen, i mean like a 5% chance it could happen, but if I was a guy like Davis, coming off a 3 yr/20mm contract for the Dbacks, I'd want to play for a winner.

They were also looking at Holliday at the last trade deadline...

*Crazy Talk Time*

What if the Phils did bring back Park to start? I bet he'd jump at the opportunity, and take a discounted deal. During the 7-10 game trial period, you audition Carpenter, Kendrick, and Vogelsong at AAA to see who's looking sharp. You also give Moyer time to get healthy, even start a few games at tripA. Then, after you move Park to the pen, you've got a solidified bullpen with great upside, and a hot-handed 5th starter. If, on the off chance Park works out in the rotation, you've also got a cheap 5th starter, with plenty of insurance should he falter.

*End Crazy Talk*

David Murphy has an updated payroll and depth chart on HIGH CHEESE:

He pegs the payroll at $134.125 MM with the arb raises.

Which would have been fun. Imagine being able to DH Ibanez in the WS and have Holliday in the field...

Granted it would have been inpractical for a bunch of reasons and might have affected the Halladay trade due to the prospects lost in it but still it would have been fun.

awh: Fair enough. Here's to not complaining!

awh: He doesn't include contract renewals to Kendrick and others, along with 500 K still owed to each Jenkins and Eaton. That will be another $3 million.

A couple of things.

The team has said they don't expect Romero to be ready for the start of the season. So, he is now a total crapshoot. Enough of the "he has to be better than last year." We have no way of knowing. But we do know he is damaged goods until proven otherwise.

We also don't have any idea what's the result of yet another knee surgery and elbow surgery will be on Lidge. He was awful last season. He is a complete and total crapshoot as well.

Can we be optimistic? Maybe. But it would be foolish to put all of our eggs on those baskets.

Escalona is simply not very good. If they're counting on him for a meaningful contribution as a LOOGY, they'd better find some money and a real LOOGY before it becomes a problem.

Why is Pedro out of the Phillies' price range? Has anyone heard of that 5 million dollar offer he has in his pocket? Are teams beating down the door to his house to get him to please please please take a lot of money and pitch for them? My guess is that he's had as many feelers as Myers has had. And that amounts to maybe three teams calling then losing his number.

And please no more mention of bringing in Tim Redding. If he's playing for the Phillies, he doesn't get to pitch against eh Phillies. There went all of his effectiveness.

On second thought, why don't they Chan Ho John Smoltz? Let him start some games to see what he's got left. If he sucks, toss him in the pen. I bet he'd love a chance to stuff it down the throats of the Braves.

Who did the Cards give up for Holliday? Was it just Wallace or was there more to the package? Considering the A's just traded Wallace straight-up for Taylor, I'm willing to bet that Taylor would have gotten Holliday by himself...and I'm pretty sure they could have come up with another OF to trade for Halladay, considering the numerous OF prospects they have.

But it's all wishful thinking now...

As for the budget last year, I remember a lot of talk around June that there was extra money available for mid-season acqusitions if necessary, but I have no evidence available to me at the moment.

Murphy is ignoring a couple things:

Buyouts to:

Jenkins - $1.25M
Eaton - $500K
Feliz - $500K

He's also probably a tad low on the Arb raises to Blanton (he has $7 million) and Vic (he has $6.5 million)

NEPP: Thanks for the exact figures to my post above. As I mentioned, he also forgets contract renewals to Kendrick and others.

Overall he is most likely about 3-4 mil off.

Yeah, good point about the renewals. You know you're obsessing when you immediately know that the beat reporter hasn't done his full research.

Someone should send him the link to Cots.

NEPP: Haha, yea. Well maybe you should since you are higher on the BLer food chain.

I am actually surprised he didn't look at Cot's before posting that chart.

Murph also listed Halladay at 9 mil this year...isn't it 9.75?

Hawk made the HOF...Blyleven, Alomar, Larkin all fell short.


Chris in VT: Correct. Great pick-up as well.

In other news: Andre Dawson elected to the HOF.

Burt and Alomar were close, but no cigar.

Alomar and Larkin definitely deserve to be in the HOF...both were absolutely dominant players at their position for extended periods of time.

Dawson? I guess I might be too young to remember the prime of his career, but he's kind of iffy to me. And Blyleven is such a weird case. I guess he's thought of as more of a compiler than a truly great player.

The fact that Dawson got in but Alomar didn't is amazing.

I never understand why some voters insist on not voting for guys their first year on the ballot. There is no distinction between "first-ballot" HOFer and a HOFer. You're either worthy of induction or you aren't. It's ridiculous.

I guess Dawson never spit in an umps face.

And there is a distinction...its the same one we make when we say "He's in the inner circler of the HOF (Mays, Ruth, Schmidt, Mantle) as opposed to guys like Jim Rice and Gary Carter.

I don't understand how a player can suddenly become HOF worthy after 10 years on the ballot of not being considered good enough...What changed about their careers that suddenly made them a HOFer?

I get what Jack's trying to say, though. If someone deserves to get in, they should get in immediately, not on their final ballot or something like that.

In my book, you're a HOFer or not. Gary Carter doesn't equal Babe Ruth, but they're both HOFers and that's ok.

I'm struggling to understand mvptommy's logic about saving money for mid-season. Why is that better strategy than spending what you have now to put the best possible team on the field from the beginning of the season?

The HOF is such a weird topic...Everyone has their own opinions of what a HOFer is. For instance, I never considered Craig Biggio a HOFer when he was playing, but he's a virtual lock to get in based on the 3,000 hit thing. But I consider Alomar one of the 3-5 best 2B of all time and a definite HOFer, and he didn't make it in the first time...

Yea when it comes to the HOF and the vote, it is very tricky.

I am stunned that Hawk got in, but no one else did. At least if Larkin or Alomar also got voted in, we can try to make a little sense into it. But that fact that a couple of guys missed by as many as 5 votes is tough to grasp.

Raise your hand if you're going to this induction?



Gonna be a slow weekend in Cooperstown though I guess some Cubs fans will go.

clout: Because as another poster said earlier. I am going to give an example:

We have between 2-4 million remaining, as we discussed Murphy is wrong in his payroll figures for various reasons(read above).

With that 2-4 million you can afford a couple of low levels FA's. However, if you wait until mid-season when your needs become more clear, you can trade for a better guy and only have to pay his pro-rated salary while at the same time addressing your needs at that time.

All I am saying if you want to spend money great, but don't use ALL of it.

RT: While Jack says Kendrick cannot possibly be successful at the major league level because of his low K/9, the fact is he's held RH batters to a .692 OPS in 303 major league IP. He has been used as a reliever in the past and I have never read anything to suggest he can't relieve.

There's no distinction between 1st ballot and the other HOFers. No one really remembers that stuff. Schmidt, Ruth, Mays, Mantle, etc. don't need that particular distinction to distinguish themselves from the rest of the HOF.

You're either a HOFer or you're not.

clout - "I'm struggling to understand mvptommy's logic about saving money for mid-season. Why is that better strategy than spending what you have now to put the best possible team on the field from the beginning of the season?"

If the budget is a hard 140 mil, I tend to agree with mvptommy. I doubt ownership would refuse to go over by a couple/few mil mid-season if they needed to go get someone, but you never know. I also was one of those people who believed ownership when they said they could make a budget exception for a special player like Halladay, and we all know how that turned out.

But my logic is basically this...If you can only go up to 140 mil and that's it, you need to save a couple mil to go get someone mid-season just in case injuries/ineffectiveness hit. We don't know how healthy/effective Lidge, Romero, Moyer, or even Hamels will be this season. Why not wait to see what holes your team actually has rather than fill projecetd/theoretical holes now?

NEPP: I'm sure both Expo fans will go.

****There's no distinction between 1st ballot and the other HOFers. No one really remembers that stuff. Schmidt, Ruth, Mays, Mantle, etc. don't need that particular distinction to distinguish themselves from the rest of the HOF.****

People do it all the time...

Clout: To be fair, I think Kendrick has a much better shot of becoming a back-end reliever like Clay Condrey than he does of being a successful MLB starter.

I always said Kendrick most likely does not have the stuff necessary to be a successful MLB starter. The Phillies apparently agreed with me, as they pulled him from the rotation in 2008 and he has yet to return. He was passed over this year by Park, Happ, Bastardo, Rod Lopez, Drew Carpenter, and Pedro for starting spots.

Amaro is likely seeking extra pitching help because he is pretty dubious about what/if any contributions he will get out of Moyer (who just recently had his 3rd surgery this offseason to scope his right knee) and Romero.

While the super stars have gotten paid this year and even more of the second-tier FAs have done well (hard to believe that Wolf got 3 yrs/$30M from the Brewers and a guy like LaRoche is looking for at least $9-10M/year over 2-3 years), there are likely going to be a number of veteran pitching options that might be available at a relatively discount price.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Phils sign a LOOGY to compete in spring training or a swingman who can start or be in the bullpen. Frankly, I am kind of surprised the Phils haven't signed this kind of guy yet because they have done so the last two seasons (Durbin, Park). Wellenmeyer to me is the most interesting guy for this role especially if he isn't having elbow issues and has that crisp fastball.

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