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Saturday, November 06, 2010

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He'll be someone's pitching coach come March.

That's sad news for Jamie Moyer. I agree, he would be an excellent pitching coach, or it would seem that he would. Good guy. I hope the Phillies do a little ceremony of sorts in his honor. (And I'm kicking myself for never going to his Phillies-as-waiters fundraiser.)

From that bit at mlbtraderumors.com:

"If the injury does derail Moyer's comeback for good, it would be an unfortunate end to an incredibly long and impressive career. The lefty has won 267 games and pitched more than 4000 innings for seven teams over the course of the quarter-century he has spent in the bigs."

Why does everything seem to think that Moyer will necessarily want to become a pitching coach?

He supposedly had a strong desire to pitch as long as possible but you also got the impression that he wasn't crazy having to go through the season-long rigors & travel of being a MLB pitching coach.

I don't actually have the impression he does want to become a pitching coach right away, MG, but I do think he'd be a good one. He had some quote not too long ago to the effect of saying that once he was done, he was done.

I also think he might consider coaching at his sons' level before coaching for MLB. But who knows what he'll decide in future?

I thought he would hang it up after the surgery and complications he had last offseason. I will believe his career is over when he says it is.

The two hit shut out will forever be one of my favorite memories

MG- where do you get that impression? That seems like a completely baseless statement to me.

You people are such negative Nellies. clout will be on momentarily to accuse you of saying that Moyer is washed up.

MG - In re: Holliday vs. Werth
Looking at the two pages I tend to believe the fangraph numbers. And I agree with your basic premise that a six or seven year contract for Werth will be regretted at some point.

Those who follow a more subjective approach to player acquisition, though, will be looking at things other than numbers. They'll see speed, ability to play all three OF positions (history, even, of playing some 1B - though anyone who would trust Werth to be involved in that many plays has an optimistic view of his consistency), pedigree, potential power, and where he places relative to other RH OFs available in this year's FA crop.
Someone will give him numbers he will like.

MG: Good post. There is ZERO chance that Moyer will be a pitching coach next season.

WAR is your classic GI/GO stat. Not even Andy thinks Ben Zobrist was one of the top 2 players in MLB 2 years ago or that Ryan Ludwick is better than Ryan Howard.

No. But I'd rather have Ben Zobrist than any other UT in baseball.

I agree werth would become too much

Time to wrap it up, Jamie. You've had an incredible career, but now its time to grow old gracefully.

Just riffing on something Salisbury suggested today: http://www.csnphilly.com/11/06/10/bSalisburyb-Baseballs-Shopping-Season-Be/landing_phillies.html?

What would the Phils have to give up to get Andrew McCutchen from the AAAA team on the other side of PA? Having observed McCutchen only from afar, he seems like a pretty intriguing young player, although UZR hates his defense. Salisbury speculates it would take the Domonator plus something else to land McCutchen. I suppose that's right. I'm not sure I'd be willing to do a deal like that, given how much the Phils have already dealt from their farm system in the last few years, but a RHB with that kind of speed and line-drive power would look awfully good in the Phils' lineup and could be a centerpiece for the next run after the current core group moves off the scene.

Werth does not justify a 5/6 year deal for $100 million. And if he won't budge off that let him go. Period. You give that money to a core player, someone who can carry a team by himself for an extended period of time, someone who's a future Hall of Famer or borderline.

They sign Werth to that deal and they'll have to break up their team after 2012. For this reason alone they can't do it.

cjp: McCutchen is a great player, but losing Werth and with Utley & Howard getting older, a power bat is much more necessary in this lineup.

Brown projects to have significantly more power than McCutchen. Given McCutch's defensive abilities in CF, he might be the better overall player, but Brown fits more of a need for this team.

MG: Good post. There is ZERO chance that Moyer will be a pitching coach next season.

Link?

The only thing with McCutchen is that you would be hoping that he would turn some of those line drives into home runs and become a guy capable of hitting 20 home runs a year. It's possible but Brown is more of a sure thing power wise.

Cutch would give you speed, a leadoff man, and would help you to make someone like Vic expendable if you were trying to upgrade elsewhere. However, doing those things probably opens up more holes than you currently have. So Cutch fills some but opens new ones.

I can picture Moyer working spring training, then be a roving instructor between Reading, Allentown, and Lakewood. That way he could drive home any time if he only worked with those teams when they were home. And he could drive the Escalona Express for rehabbing players.

I'm still amazed that a 48yo who lives away from his family for 6 months a year would go play winter ball. Hang 'em up for God's sake.

Moyer will be back. Two major elbow injuries at Age 48 won't slow him down.


Why the anger with Moyer trying to pitch still? He loves the game, was still effective this year and has had a great career. He has earned the right to go out however he wants.

BobbyD: I tend to agree. Perhaps i'm just insensitive, but this news doesn't surprise me. Tough break for him.

For all we know, his family (wife at least) might be in the Dominican with him. The guy has the right to play if he wants. If he came back at Age 48, I'd have loved to watch him pitch. Watching Moyer pitch when he was on his game was a thing of beauty. Watching guys swing late on 82 mph fastballs was just beautiful.

"MG: Good post. There is ZERO chance that Moyer will be a pitching coach next season.

Link?"

Yes, I'd like more inside info on that as well.

We'd have to give up too much in the farm system for McCutcheon, I think. This team needs a power bat behind Howard more than it needs another leadoff man.

The problem with any free agent outfielder is that you cannot sign him long term. Brown has to be given every opportunity to blossom into the team's everyday right fielder. This isn't just from a cost perspective or from the team's need to get younger. If you look at the available free agent outfielders for this year and 2012, there just isn't much out there.

So, really, you've got to find a right handed bat, who will cost no more than Werth's 2010 salary, who would take a short term contract. Not exactly many players out there who would go for that. That's why Ordonez could be so appealing. If he's willing to go for a short term deal, 1 or 2 years, at Werth's salary, he would definitely fit the bill. If you sign him for 2 years, Brown takes over in RF full time for 2012 and you move Ordonez over to LF in place of Ibanez.

If I was an MLB player I would do everything I could to keep playing. I can't imagine a better life. A

Also congrats to former Phillies Tadahito Iguchi and the Chiba Lotte Marines on winning the Japan Series! GOOOOCH!!

Old Phan & dlhunter - It was from an interview he gave back in June when asked about his future. No specific line where Moyer said "I will not be a pitching coach" but just a reading between the lines.

It was pretty clear that Moyer was going to try to pitch another year if he could. Mentioned that soon after he was injured in July and again in Sept. about pitching in the Dominican League.

Moyer made a ton of money in his career and is very close to his family/children. Maybe he becomes a pitching coach in 2011. Strikes me more as a private guy though who will be content to large enjoy his family and other life pursuits though.

He is from Philly but has no strong ties here in terms of family/businesses he owns here. He also doesn't have a permanent residence here.

I wouldn't be surprised if he does something like Schmidt and works with a team as a roving instructor in spring for several weeks since he lives full-time in Florida. Huge difference between doing something like that though and being a MLB pitching coach.

Moyer will most likely retire to Florida with his family. People here naturally like to think Moyer is a "Philly guy" because he grew up here and has played here for a couple of years, but his family has always lived in Seattle, until last year when they moved to Florida. He was very active in the Seattle social and philanthropic communities.

Moyer will likely retire to Florida and we won't hear much from him again. If, however, he decided to be a pitching coach or be associated with a team, it would likely be with the Mariners, not the Phillies.

If there was one thing the past 5 years . . .

That I didn't think it was about a Phils' player it was that Moyer would be a player on their tema for another 4 1/2 years or win anywhere close to 56 games in a Phils' uniform.

Amaro though did make a mistake when he resigned Moyer after the '08 season at $14.5M.

The thing about coaching is that it has all of the hassles (travel, long days) of big league life with few of the rewards (money, fame, joy derived from playing the game).

"He [Moyer] has earned the right to go out however he wants."

Ryan, Carlton, Seaver, Smoltz, Glavine, hell even Babe Ruth all earned the right to go out however they wanted.

It just doesn't work out that way for everybody. Moyer is just another name to add to the list. No one is entitled to a storybook ending.

****It just doesn't work out that way for everybody. Moyer is just another name to add to the list. No one is entitled to a storybook ending.****

I agree but I think you're missing my actual point. My point was that if Moyer wants to pitch in the Dominican League at Age 48, he should and can do it without criticism. If he wants to rehab his elbow again and come back in mid season 2011, he should have every right to try that. I dont get the anger and criticism about him doing either. Its his life and he's earned the right to do what he wants with it. Sure, he might not ever pitch again but to say he should have hung it up rather than trying to come back is ignorant at best.


Also, Edgar Renteria has said he'll play in 2011...I wonder if he'd take a reserve role.

Moyer had his storybook ending already a few times including winning a WS in '08 and having some real great performances in his last season including that CG shutout vs. Braves and his starts vs. Yanks. He generally went out on a relatively high note.

Insane; possibly a non sequitur. However, Jamie Moyer is an obsessive-compulsive type. If he got Tommy-John surgery -- assuming his fatal injury is elbow related -- maybe his animal-like workout regimen gets him back to the bigs with an 88 mph fastball (http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=does-tommy-john-surgery-give-pitche-2009-04-05). And a 68 mph chaneup. At age 49.

Hard to believe, Harry...

People on Philly sports blogs have been begging for Moyer to retire for years now, and it's a desire I still don't understand in the slightest, especially since Jamie isn't even on the team anymore.

If this injury ends his career (god forbid), it's a "what could have been" story, not a "he held on too long" story.

"Amaro though did make a mistake when he resigned Moyer after the '08 season at $14.5M."

I think that was a reward for past performance also.

There are worse places to blow money than Jamie Moyer. Adam Eaton for example...

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