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Thursday, February 10, 2011

Comments

Young is too expensive, too old, and just doesn't make sense for this team.

Would I welcome him aboard if the Rangers ate a large portion of his contract? Hells yes!

Young could be a supersub, rotating between 3rd, SS, and 2nd, giving our agin 3 at those positions rest when needed. However, that might only end up being about 5 starts every 2-3 weeks. Not what he wants.

All else aside, there's no place to put him unless he wants to platoon in the outfield. Can't imagine that. We've gotten spoiled - now every time an accomplished player becomes available we think the Phillies might get him. Which is kind of nice, actually. But this can't happen. Let it go.

The discussion went something like this. "Any interest in Blanton?" "Not really." "Ok, see you."

It's a non-story so I suppose it's a slow news day. Let's start this rumor--Blanton and Utley for Cano.

JW, you obviously didn't read the comments yesterday. This Young topic was beaten like a dead horse, a rented mule, and a red-headed stepchild.

Jack, JW hates us and is mocking us.

"The discussion went something like this. "Any interest in Blanton?" "Not really." "Ok, see you."

I'm guessing this is exactly how it went.

I don't see Young going anywhere until June when circumstances arise for contenders who need a replacement 2B, SS or 3B.

David Murphy has a rundown this morning over at High Cheese:

The money quote:

"
4) Young is an All-Star caliber player. No disputing that. But his career OPS at the launching pad otherwise known as the Ballpark at Arlington is .859. His career OPS everywhere else is .733. Last year, those numbers were .871 and .679, respectively. Those splits are bigger than the ones you'll find in Augustus Gloop's pants."

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/Michael_Young_not_a_real_possibility_ESPNcom_reports.html#ixzz1DYniibZX
Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else

"[Rollins] is worth more to the Phils than anybody else, similar to the Albert Pujols/Cards situation."

I'd say that bringing in the hometown boy would be worth something to both Jimmy and Oakland.

Also, if your arguing that Rollins in a Phillies uniform beyond 2011 is a foregone conclusion, I wouldn't use Pujols as a comparison. There is a very real possibility that he's moving on. It sounds insane, but I could see the Nationals getting involved, considering the money they suddenly seem to have to offer Werth, Lee, etc.

Honestly, I simply LOVE that we even kicked the tires on him. Its such a big market club thing to do. Its something the Yankees would do. 5 years ago we never even would have made the phone call. Our FO is worldclass these days.

The A's top prospect is a ss, Grant Green. Jemile Weeks, 2b and Ricky Weeks little brother is is their 5th best. Given Oakland's purported budgetary restraints, I'm betting they give the kids a shot before paying big dollars for declining performance in Rollins. Seems antithetical to their Moneyball model of most efficient use of resources.

****Let's start this rumor--Blanton and Utley for Cano.
****

I hate to say it but that would probably be a smart deal for the Phillies to make. If you disregard the clubhouse impact of losing Utley that is.

If Rollins did move on, and I don't think he will, I think the Phillies would end up trading for a guy rather than signing the FA's like Reyes. A guy like Reid Brignac is gonna start getting pushed from behind by Hak-Ju Lee, maybe we'll get real lucky and the Marlins will hold another fire-sale.

NEPP, Cano has had one year with an OPS over .900. One year.

Utley had 5 in a row before being injured.

Are you willing to bet Cano and Utley duplicate their effort from 2010?

I'm not.

2009-2010 OPS

Cano: .893
Utley: .874


Add in that Utley is a full 4 years older and do you see where I'm coming from?

One is on the way up while the other is declining slowly.

Chemistry schmemistry. The 1980 Phils were at each others' throats, led by the manager. I'd love to see Cano here. I think Utley is on the decline (on the wrong side of 30).

Wow - And I thought Howard Eskin and Angelo Cataldi headers were as pathetic as Beerleaguer could get.

Now a Will Schweitzer quote?

awh - it was such a non story that espn.com had it as a headline. it was also on mlbtr.com.

i never thought it had legs, but it's a story, nonetheless.

"Young could be had for Blanton and might get Texas to pay enough salary to even out the books".

Using that logic, Beerleaguer thinks that "Philadelphia trades Joe Blanton to Texas in exchange for Michael Young and $31 million dollars." is a possible future headline.

Can Beerleaguer take a poll to see how many posters agree or disagree that the proposed trade is possible? I would cringe if its anything less than 95%.

First of all, Yankees would never trade Cano. done and done.

The more interesting discussion is what can we expect from st. utley for the next 5 years.

He's the type of guy to me where I could see him play at a top 10 MLB 2nd basement for the next 4-5 years.

rube likes to kick him some tires. imo, that's what a good gm should do. it helps to develop relationships w/ other gm's, and to understand their styles and lines of thinking. any communication w/ another team's gm is a good thing. seriously, what else is a gm supposed to be doing, if not making phone calls to other clubs to find out what they want/need. any excuse to call a club is a good reason to do so.

"I wouldn't trade Polanco's average for anything that Young brings to the table"

Polly career avg: .303
Young career avg: .300

Polly last 3 seasons: .296
Young last 3 seasons: .294

Out of all of the possible ways to make a case for Polanco over Young, or vice versa, how could you use Batting Average to separate one from the other? How does this argument make the header of a thread?

I still like this trade:
Phillies get: Young and $20 Million

Rangers get: Rizzotti, Blanton, and a PTBNL (Biddle).

We would have to pay a high price in order to get money in return. I think Rangers would like Rizz bc they traded away Smoak last year. Sure, we would be paying Young to be a super utility guy this year....but he has value in the Rollins negotiations which I don't think will be that easy.

No, please, not blue-blood-Biddle.

NEPP, now you're being ridiculous.

Utley was injured in 2010 and you're including that year?

How about doing 2008 - 2010?

Ultey .890
Cano .836

And one of those years Utley played with a hip that required surgery.

I guess if you're willing to use one injury filled year as a benchmark for Chase Utley then that's your perogative.

Silly, but your perogative.

****First of all, Yankees would never trade Cano. done and done.****

And we would never trade Utley.

We all know that.


awh, the recurrent injuries to Utley are a big reason why it'd be a smart deal for us if we were to do it. Its fair to use it to make such a comment...especially when Cano is entering his prime years and Utley is in the typical decline years of a career.

If I were Rube, would I make the deal? Maybe not but if Cashman offered it, I'd sure as hell consider it and be tempted.

....Or we can wait until Brown is batting .150 and Rollins pulls up lame running to first and utley get another hip pointer and we have a starting line-up looking like this:

Martinez
Polanco
Victorino
Howard
Francisco
Ibanez
Ruiz
Valdez

YEAH.....

Shawn, I wouldn't be surprised if Utley's OPS is in the top 5 of all MLB 2B over the next 5 years.

Sure, he's on the wrong side of 30, but the plateau he's declining from is so far above all the other 2B in MLB that if the decline is slow he'll be in that camp.

BTW, Cano's slash line July 1st through the end of the season:

.288/.361/.489/.850, .293 BAbip

Compare that to his first half:

.353/.402/.581/.983, BAbip .361

Was he "lucky" in the first half?


Unlike NEPP, I'm not willing to annoint Cano yet - at least not after only 1 year of getting to the level Utley has been for the last 6 years.

Unless, of course, you think an injury and surgery filled season where Chase only played 115 games is a true indication of the level to which he's fallen?

I don't. I suspect Utley has a rebound year. Let's see if Cano can sustain that level of performance for more than one season.

If he can, then NEPP will have a point.

"but he has value in the Rollins negotiations which I don't think will be that easy."


Ruben (to Dan Lozano, Rollins' agent):

"Dan, you know we have Michael Young who we can play at SS if Jimmy doesn't re-sign with us."

Lozano:

"HAHAHAHAHAHA, good one Ruben. If you want to tell your pitching staff that you're going to trot a 35 yr old Michael Young, who's been a well below average defensive shortstop for a while, out on the field to play defense at the most important defensive postition on the field, go right ahead. I'm sure they'll love it, as well as any FA pitchers you're targeting. Gee, do you think they'd go for Raul Ibanez in CF as well? HAHAHAHAHA."

NEPP - RAJ should make that deal in a heartbeat even if he would take a severe initial public backlash.

Cano is 28. Utley is 32. Both are signed through '13 with Cano at slightly less money. Utley is on the decline both offensively and defensively at a position where mid-30s is not kind to players. It would be a no-brainer.

I have to say, as much as I like Utley, that deal would make sense for Philly. Cano looks like a superstar in the making to my eyes.

Coincidentally, I read this Neyer piece yesterday discussing whether Cano or Pedroia will be the 2B of hte next decade. St. Utley is honored as the reigning 2B of the past decade. Kind of a B.S. result as it rests on Pedroia supposedly being injury prone, which I don't think is the case but, here it is.

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2011/2/9/1983743/dustin-pedroia-robinson-cano-yankees-red-sox-mlb-players

Utley is pretty much my favorite player other than Chooch so I dont have an axe to grind against him...that said, if that deal was offered (and the Yankees wouldn't ever offer it), Rube would be hard pressed to say no.

For the love of God...Michael Young is vastly overpaid and overrated. That contract is an albatross for Texas. No thanks.

If the deal was offered: Cano for Utley, I think I would take it. Healthy, Utley likely outperforms Cano** from 2011-13. There's a big enough chance that Utley breaks down physically / declines precipitously that Cano provides the safer option of having a well above average 2B for 425-450 games over the 3 years of the contract.

** I think Cano had his best year of his career last year and will decline back towards his 2009.

I meant that Cano had the best year that he will ever have ...

awh:

OPS is definitely a strong suit for Utley, but an even better stat would be his wOBA as that's another elite skill he has aside from his slugging.

http://www.fangraphs.com/splits.aspx?playerid=1679&position=2B&page=8&split=lr&type=full

2010: (injury plagued year, 115 Games) #4 in wOBA with .373. Ahead of him were Cano, Rickie Weeks, and Kelly Johnson. ISO: 169, especially against lefties his ISO dropped like a stone, well below career average.

2009: (156 Games) #2 wOBA with .402 (behind Zobrist, who let's be honest, isn't a solid 2B). Oh btw, ISO was around 225.

2008: (159 Games) #2 wOBA with .391 (behind Ian "career year" Kinsler) .393. His ISO was in the 240s, Uggla, was crazy with a 260s ISO.

Conclusion: if he can continue to have a great OBP, with top 5 ISO, he'll continue to be a top 5 MLB valuable 2B. OBP are old man skills anyway, just how much will we see a drop in his power though is the question, and when will we see a drop? Or was last year something of an injury related outlier?

*note: wOBA weights OBP more than OPS, that's why I liked that stat going forward for Utlez

Shawn, all I am saying is that Cano has had one year as good as Utley has in the 5 yrs before that. That was with a full season BAbip of.326. Utley's BAbip was .288.

which is more likely sustainable?

Cano is a really good player who had a great year. He needs to sustain it.

if he does NEPP and I will be in agreement.

That's what my point was. I'm agreeing with you. I think Utley has very sustainable elite skills, which will hopefully one day lead him to the Hall of Fame.

lorecore: You weren't around Beerleaguer when MVPTommy was here, but he eventually got his IP address banned from the site (and deservedly so) for constantly taking potshots at jw. Just letting you know . . .

It is possible to express disagreement with an idea, without personally attacking the guy who gave you this forum in the first place.

As has been rehashed at length, there is no chance of Michael Young coming here, due to salary. And, due to both salary and age, I would not be in favor of trading for him, even if it were possible. But can we stop this nonsense that he's not as good as Polanco & that there would be nowhere for him to play?

Wouldn't call them potshots, just voicing opinion that those quotes that JW used in his header are amongst the worst in the comments section.

awh, check out Utley's BABIP graph over on Fangraphs...http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=1679&position=2B&page=7&type=full

He's basically had a league average BABIP for 3 years running.

Polanco: 2008/2009/2010
2.8 WAR (2B) / 3.1 WAR (2B) / 3.7 WAR (3B)

Young:
2.4 (SS) / 3.9 (3B) / 2.7 (3B)

lorecore: They were potshots. In your 9:11 post, you attacked Beerleaguer for becoming increasingly more "pathetic." In your 9:15 post, you ridiculed what you thought to be a particularly ridiculous comment, then implied that the comment represented the view of the guy who writes the blog. And, in your 9:33 post, you again took issue with a particular comment, then upbraided Beerleaguer for selecting that comment for its thread header.

The 9:11 post was a gratuitous potshot which was posted for no other purpose except to attack the blog-master. The other 2 posts started out as reasonable criticisms of a particular comment, but then you gratutously threw in unnecessary attacks on Beerleaguer itself.

If you don't like the quality of the articles, don't post here.

calling angelo cataldi and howard eskin and will schweitzer pathetic isn't really an attack on JW.

I think the Abreu trade was a good idea.


Discuss.

lorecore: Except that's not what you said.

Anyway, it's not up to me to decide what's insulting. I was merely giving you a friendly warning. What you do with that warning is up to you.

NEPP: I wish fangraphs had a BABIP "predictor" or something like how they have FIP that goes on HR% / K / BB etc.

THey could use LD%, FB% and GB% to average out what a players BABIP should have been and then compare it to what it actually was.

Sometimes it can be decieving to call someone's BABIP too high or low when they had a very good/bad LD% to go along with it.

Abreu's laid back attitude was so great, that when he was traded away, our mediocre pitching staff dropped their ERA by half a run in the second half. Great trade!

lorecore: Yeah you might be right that using Polly's average as an example as to why Young wouldn't fit here is a bit outlandish when it is elaborated on, but basically what I was getting at was that I like his average at the top of our order, I like Polly as a 2. I don't see Young at the top of our order, I see him as a possible 5 on a team that seems to be full of 5 hole hitters, thus I don't like what he brings to the table with the money he's owed, the possible schism/headache he creates if we had to shuffle the infield to accomodate him, and the overall possible distruption of chemistry he could cause if he's set on being an every 3B which he shouldn't be on our club given given his fielding percentage.

*when it is not elaborated on.

Utley's drop the last 3 years running is tied directly to his decreasing ability to hit RHP.

****Sometimes it can be decieving to call someone's BABIP too high or low when they had a very good/bad LD% to go along with it.****

I agree completely. My point was to show that Utley wasn't really that unlucky last year and that his BABIP was pretty much steady from 2008-2010 (after taking a huge tumble from the previous years for some reason). He was, at best, slightly unlucky in 2010 and most of that drop was probably related to weaker contact as a result of the injury.

Using Utley as an example:

Year || BABP || LnD% || GrB% || FlB%
2008 || .301 || 24.3 || 33.3 || 42.4
2009 || .300 || 18.5 || 34.0 || 47.5
2010 || .288 || 19.9 || 41.1 || 39.0

Wouldn't the true measure of 'luck' that BABIP tries to determine be better if they estaimted what a players batted ball data usually 'should' produce?

According to BABIP, Utley had the same amount of luck in 2008 and 2009 - but look at his batted ball. Wouldn't you agree that he was much more lucky in 2009 to have a .300 BABIP while his LD% dropped 5% and his FB% rose by 5% from the previous year's BABIP of .301?

Iorecore: You can do a short-hand prediction of what a players BABIP should be. Add .110 to his LD%.

Thus, if a guy has an 18% LD rate, he should be expected to have a BABIP of .290 (.180 + .110).

It's a little rough, but it is a much better measure than simply saying it should be around .290-.300, because players have much more control over their BABIP year-to-year than pitchers do.

I'd like to give Utley the benefit of the doubt. He may very well be on the decline and stats/injuries over the last 2 years might support that but I don't want to discount what intangibles he brings. He's incredibly tough and smart. Leads the league in HBP, however scary for injury sake, and is a smart base runner all around. He knows how to get on base even when he's not hitting. For a guy to compensate the way he does when he's in slumps really epitomizes his value. I don't really think he can be more frustrating than he was last year and I look for him to bounce back. I've said this before but the addition of Lee and the overall staff might set the clocks back for a lot fo guys because of how exciting it is. The offense might come back to form with really the pitching being the team's staple. There really hasn't been as little pressure on the offense as there is this year. There's expectations to produce and there will be increasing light on Rollins and Utley as they age and we try to figure out just what they've become, but I wouldn't put it past these two to prove their worth this year.

Jack: never saw that before - is that what fangraph suggests as a tip? That's the type of example I was getting at - just hadn't seen it before.

Utley is one of the smartest baseball players I have ever seen play the game. He does all the little things right. There's a ton of value in that. Also, he's a quiet leader on the team. That's the issue I would personally have with such a trade.

Is Cano that type of player? Probably not as 90% of guys aren't.

Personally, I hope Utley is a Phillie for life. Maybe in a few years, we could move him to LF if his defense declines to that point.

Emmett - Funny, you see a bunch of 5 hole hitters on the Phils, and I see . . . none.

Werth was the 5 hole hitter and nobody has been acquired or developed to replace him. It would be nice to have a power righty bat to hit behind Howard and that's what the Phillies seem to have zero of. It's the one glaring hole in the lineup, even when everyone is healthy. I'm not saying Young is the guy or even that he's available or highly desirable or affordable. But he fits the 5 hitter profile better than anyone the Phillies have currently.

FWIW, .300 BABIP is considered the mean. .290 - .310 are considered low normal and high normal, respectively. Anything lower or higher is considered unlucky (low) or lucky (high).

NEPP:

If Jeter's career path is any indication, Utley will play 2B till he dies.

Jeltz: That's true for pitchers.

Hitters control their BABIP much more. For example, Ryan Howard has a career .328 BABIP. Carl Crawford has a career .331 BABIP. When players can repeat something year after year, it's a skill, not luck.

Pitchers, however, show no ability to repeat BABIP year after year. Therefore, we assume that it is luck, not a skill.

wow - i should have googled xBABIP before posting.

***If Jeter's career path is any indication, Utley will play 2B till he dies.***

Will he win a bunch of GGs that he doesn't deserve too?

How about a real trade with a team from Texas? Try to send Blanton, a couple of prospects, and a few million dollars to the Astros and bring back Happ as our 5th starter. We still save money this year because Happ's salary is so low, next year we'll save even more and Houston gets a mid-rotation starter on their team and two more of our prospects that they didn't have to pay to sign or develop.

Jack: Correct. BABIP is more of an indicator on what to expect from a pitcher going forward.

One could argue, however, that it is an indication of skill, too. A pitcher more prone to giving up line-drives will (presumably) have a higher BABIP than one prone to giving up groundballs.

It'd be interesting to see BABIP breakdowns for pitchers on those grounds, no? One would think it would then become less of a "luck" based statistic.

Would Wade be dumb enough to do a Blanton-Happ swap?

If so, I'd LOVE that trade (assuming the "prospects" are Rizzotti & Mathieson...or maybe Hewitt/Collier (pick one doesnt matter))

PhilliesDude: The Phillies would have to eat most (if not all) of Blanton's contract and send an upper-level top prospect or two (which the Phils don't have) for the Astros to be interested. Joe Blanton and some minor-leaguers is not going to fly with Drayton McClane as the haul for Roy Oswalt.

Thinking out of the box.... as Amaro has done.

A direct swap between the Rangers and Phils for Young seems incompatible. Instead, any trade would likely involve a third team that wants Young, trades an outfielder to the Phils while the Phils send Blanton to the Rangers.

Bringing in Young does not solve the right field situation. The Phils need another player, not Young.

Jeltz: They've looked for it. There is really no "skill" at the major-league level in terms of BABIP for pitchers.

The basic thinking is that if a pitcher were to consistently give up a higher BABIP based on higher LD rates--he wouldn't be good enough to consistently pitch in the majors.

Guys who get more ground balls do so at the expense of fly balls, not at the expense of line drives.

aksmith: Interesting. I'm saying Polly's value in the 2 > Young's value at the 5, due to the accomodations we'd have to make on the field and in the lineup for him, in IMO. Now Young may very well be the best 5 hole hitter for us if he came here, but then if he's in the 5 that means he's probably playing 3B and Polanco is out of the lineup which leaves a void at 2 where I think Polly is perfect. I think it's easier for us to put someone in the 5 then there is for us for the 2. Franciso, Rollins, Ibanez, Brown are all fine in the 5 in my opinion.

Presumably you could still do Rollins, Victorino etc. to leadoff if you wanted to have Young at the 5 and not play Polanco, but again I like the idea of Rollins in the 5 and Shane, Polly up top. The Young situation is just more of a hassle if he's not down with coming off the bench.

Jack: So in essence, pitchers that give up lots of LDs don't hang around long enough in the Majors to be much a factor in skewing BABIP. XD

Jeltz: Yep. Pretty much.

Kuvasz: Interesting...and who would be the mystery third team and mystery outfielder in this scenario?

from beyondboxscores' xBABIP calculator, i checked Phillies lineup of 2010 BABIP to 2010 xBABIP.

Rollins: -.043
Polanco: +.004
Utley: -.014
Howard: +.012
Ibanez: +.016
Victorino: -.018
Ruiz: +.028
Francisco: +.018

This is purely 2010 numbers based on their batted ball averages. Rollins xBABIP was .289 while his actual BABIP was just .246 - thats a good sign for 2011. Chooch looked to have a good amount of bounces go his way last year. All the others look to have reasonable differences.

Hah here's a pretty good one:

Jayson Werth: +.067 - Had a .352 BABIP with only a .285 xBABIP. Good Luck Washington.

lorecore - All of Werth's luck seemed to vanish with runners in scoring position, though.

Liriano available. Are we in?

"Liriano available. Are we in?"

Sure, every team needs 7 capable starters, none of which have any real interest in a bullpen or AAA role.

Obviously there are lots of reasons why Young won't be coming to Philadelphia, but I don't buy the idea that we have nowhere to put him. Even without injuries, you can give him 20 starts each at 2B, SS, and 3B and maybe 50 in the outfield and find him 400-500 at bats.

Of course, there will be injuries.

2010: 721 PA (162 starts) for Valdez, Dobbs, Castro, Ransom
2009: 523 PA (73 starts) for Dobbs, Stairs, Bruntlett, Mayberry, and Cairo
2008: 478 PA (93 starts) for Dobbs and Bruntlett

My point is that there is a lot of value in someone who can play adequately at 2B, SS, and 3B, especially for an aging team, because you can almost guarantee at least one of Rollins, Utley, or Polanco spends significant time on the DL, and as it stands now, those ABs go to Wilson Valdez.

DH Phils, I'm not disagreeing with you about the concept of a "super-sub," who isn't really a "sub" so to speak since he'd be getting regular playing time, but is there a precedent with another player who has been successful in a such a regular dynamic role? Not criticizing, just asking out of curiosity.

Why the hell would the Twins trade Liriano? He's their best pitcher and they're a playoff contender.

I say trade for him and use him as a LOOGY.

***The Twins don’t plan to sign Liriano to an extension, according to Christensen. Long-term talks “went nowhere” and Liriano hinted at a three-year, $39MM extension when the sides discussed a deal, according to Christensen.***

I'm not the Twins GM but that sounds like a pretty reasonable deal.

WP: 2 that come to mind are Pujols in his first few years and Ben Zobrist. I'd be curious to see if there were any others.

Also probably worth noting that Young has never played in a supersub role - 04-08 he made all of his starts at SS, 09-10 he made all of his starts at 3B, so it's possible that he's unwilling to switch between positions during the season.

Chone Figgins made a living as a super sub for several years.

Jeltz, I don't know which team needs a guy like Young in their infield, that also has an outfielder for which the Phillies would trade in a three way deal with the Rangers.

Simply, such a trade would produce what the Phillies desire more strongly than the other scenarios I have seen about Young, viz., a legitimate right fielder and a dump of Blanton's salary.

DH Phils: You don't address two issues.

One, Young currently has at least 400-500 ABs in front of him as a DH/UT player in Texas. He wants out of there, though. Why would he leave a DH/Utility guy spot on a contending team to come and just be a Utility guy on another contending team?

Two, why would the Phillies want to commit to pay $48 million for a utility player? I know they seem to be printing money in South Philly, but it really still doesn't make any sense.

I cant imagine the Twins trading Liriano unless they get blown away. Hes under team control for the next two years and they are playoff contenders - i'm not sure what you could offer the Twins in return. It would have be a young player making less than the arb money Liriano is making but yet still good enough to make his type of impact on the team in next two seasons....which narrows that list down like Jayson Heyward and not much else.

Young & the Rizz to Colorado, Seth Smith & EY jr to Philapelphia, Blanton to Texas. Maybe a few million $'s changing hands here and there.

"but is there a precedent with another player who has been successful in a such a regular dynamic role?"

To show my own antiquity, Gil McDougald and Jim Gilliam. And midway between then and now, Tony Phillips.

At this point just keep Blanton. He's a stud 5. If I'm going to trade him I'd rather trade him for a RH bat that can actually play outfield and has somewhat of an arm and isn't getting 48 mill. I don't want to force some guy to play sparingly and pay him starters money handsomely. If it were the deadline and Young presented himself as someone you could rent and you needed to due to injury I'd do it, but I can't make that desperate move now as we are not currently desparate. Stick with keeping an eye open for a guy that has no problem playing outfield and being a bench guy. We can find an IF during the trade deadline since someone will be injuried in our infield.

lorecore: Aren't you a little new to BL to start up with posting attacks to its posters and creator? Who are you anyway? I only see your name pop up when you're bitching about someone.

Please ignore my last post. After clicking on lorecore's username and finding the Call Of Duty website (and considering the nature of his posts), I can only conclude that this is a middle school child who simply doesn't know better.

My apologies, young man. I have no desire to get into an argument with a child.

Brrrrp (crickets).

What's the deal with Zagurski? They finding a roll for him this year?

"At this point just keep Blanton. He's a stud 5. If I'm going to trade him I'd rather trade him for a RH bat that can actually play outfield and has somewhat of an arm and isn't getting 48 mill."

This depends on the health of Ibanez vs Oswalt.

If Oswalt stays healthy and performs up to expectations, I'd have to think they keep him in 2012. In this case, Blanton is more expendable. If events unfold where it's not worth picking up his option, having Blanton locked in for two more years has value.

Meanwhile, if Ibanez stays healthy, we can live without trading Blanton for a bat. If not, we field Francisco/Victorino/Brown. I don't imagine that this would be a horrible OF, but it certainly makes trading Blanton for a bat seem more attractive mid-season.

will: Even though i'm posting using my Ninentdo DS while flunking my 5th grade math test for the 3rd year in row - I still am smart enough to know that Joe Blaton isn't getting traded for Michael Young and ~$30M as your quote above suggests.

"They finding a roll for him this year?"

From the looks of him, Zagurski can find plenty of rolls all by himself.

Adding to the idle multi-team trade speculation... it's too bad the White Sox have a surplus of starting pitching and utility infielders; I think Carlos Quentin in right for the Phils would be very intriguing. Of course, he's a terrible defender and he's been injured/ineffective recently, but he's still intriguing.

Will:

Yeah those are good points. Just basically saying we're in a pretty good spot having Blanton as our 5 and can be somewhat particular in what were looking to acquire. Yes, a lot of our future moves this year and next, either to retain or relinquish players, will be contingent upon the play of their teammates. Luckily were not relying on Drabek to be our 3 this year and we can be optimistic and realistic at the same time thinking that Oswalt and Raul, who've already proven themsevles, will put together productive seasons and if they don't we have a nice chip in our 5 that most would covet as a 3 and might trade talent for him as if he were a 3. That's nice to have in our favor. But not necessarily something we need to address right now. We're in the driver's seat in demanding what we want for Blanton and will be until the deadline. That's the beauty of not being desparate...just ask The Mets whose prayers again reside on the shoulders of R.A. Dickey.

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