Breaking news: Domonic Brown fractures right hand

Phillies top prospect Domonic Brown fractured a bone in his right hand swinging in his first at bat today and will be out at least three weeks, likely more, according to Twitter reports. The setback all but eliminates him from contention for the right field job. Update: Jim Salisbury says Brown has a fractured hook of the hamate bone, which will likely require surgery. If that's the case, Brown could remain in Clearwater for extended Spring Training and could eventually wind up back in Triple-A. Brown fractured the bone and would get his first hit of spring later in the at bat. Ben Francisco, who homered and doubled in today's 4-3 loss to the Pirates, is all but a lock to head north as the Phillies' everyday right fielder.

Comments

[awh]

Too bad for the kid. Now it definitely looks like he'll start the season in Allentown.

Jack must be apoplectic.

[awh]

I wonder if Brown's injury was age-related?

[Unikruk]

No, Dom, No! Keep your hands LOWER!

[CJ]

Assuming Utley is healthy to start the season, looks like our lineup will be something like this:

Rollins
Polanco
Utley
Howard
Francisco/Ibanez/Victorino in some order
Ruiz

Hard to say how he might slot the 3 outfielders in the lineup, might depend on the starter.

[MG]

Good & bad with possibly more upside in the longer-run this season. Now starts the season in Lehigh where he belongs. Also early enough in camp that he won't miss too much time to start the season. Maybe a week or 10 days at the most since the Iron Pigs don't start until April 7th. He's also young enough too that if it is just a fracture he should heal fairly quickly.

It does strengthen my prediction that Amaro makes a move for an OF bench player although the job is there for Mayberry to earn.

I am just going to start calling Ben Francisco the 'Average RF Guy.'

[MG]

Welcome to your 2011 Phillies' Whipping Boy for the fans and sports shows: The Average RF guy. BAP is already on board.

[Will Schweitzer]

No awh, not age related. Isn't it fascinating.

Hey...let's go out and sign Lenny Dykstra to play RF since age has no bearing on physicality.

[awh]

MG, that's exactly what BenFran is.

[Will Schweitzer]

"I know Brown's a great talent"

I don't know that at all. Until he proves otherwise, he's one of a long line of guys to make a splash in the minor leagues who hasn't replicated this in the majors.

Frankly, I'm sick of hearing about him. He's proven nothing.

[CJ]

*eyes rolling*

It's like people try to say something more outrageous than the last.

[RT]

Probably smashed it with a hammer just to end the on-field misery.

[awh]

Has anyone considered that perhaps he hurt the hand before ST and didn't say anything to the med staff?

Then, by playing with it he aggravated a stress fracture?

[awh]

It certainly would explain the p00r performance up until now.

[Unikruk]

Michael Taylor wouldn't have broken his hamate hook, that's for sure.

[timr]

With the Cliff Lee acquisition, the Phils just flew a little too close to the sun, I think. Prepare for an onslaught of injuries and bad luck--the baseball Gods are angry and Brown and Utley are just the beginning.

[ozark]

Benny, the job's yours. SI jinx (not cover) strikes again.

[Will Schweitzer]

If nothing else, maybe we can get a little grounded in the reality that the overhype has gone a bit too far.

Until he plays a full season in the majors, he's no more worth talking about than any other prospect. Sorry to be so pessimistic, but I'm still waiting for Wes Chamberlain and Marlon Byrd to turn into the next Ken Griffy Jr.

[ozark]

Or the next John Mayberry, Jr.

[CJ]

timr: Worse luck than 7 of our 9 regulars spending time on the disabled list including our entire All-Star infield, some for long stretches?

[CJ]

My god... Wes Chamberlain and Marlon Byrd?

Someone has approached mvptommyd territory.

[Andy]

If you spell it Griffy, you have to spell it Burd.

[DPatrone]

That's the same bone Dave Hollins broke some years back. I remember he did have to have surgery. It takes a while to come back form but when he does he will be fine physically. Tough injury. Too bad for him.

[bay_area_phan]

I'm actually declaring Beerleaguer bankruptcy on the subject of Ben Francisco. I've never been a big fan, because he seems like he ought to be much better than he actually is. But this year he'll get his chance & I think he'll have a good year.

[Dukes]

Strange question here. How does this work towards his major league service time? Since the season hasn't started yet and he wasn't a lock to make the team, what happens?

[DPatrone]

Dukes~

I believe it has no effect on service time whatsoever.

[Iceman]

Really for bad for Brown. Hopefully it will only be a small setback for him.

I have to say, the most disappointing this about this is that we all now will not get to witness Jack v. clout in regards to Brown making the team out of spring training.

Will- you are really approaching Charlie Sheen/mvptommyd territory in terms of how your comments are snowballing towards complete absurdity. It was bad enough when you were declaring Rube had ruined the franchise last July but you just keeping upping the ante.

[CJ]

I think the suggestion of Beerleaguer Bankruptcy is one of the finest suggestions in this site's storied history. That was Bed Beard, right? If a Beerleaguer Elite does exist (and I'm sure it doesn't), that earns automatic entry (not that it does exist, but if it did, Bed Beard would already be in it, which he isn't because it doesn't exist).

[NEPP]

Well...that sucks.

BenFran is a starter now...damn.

[Will Schweitzer]

CJ/Iceman: Seriously, you're placing WAY too much faith in a prospect who has proved nothing at the major league level.

If anyone is approaching MVPTommy status, it's the individuals who feel that it's a foregone conclusion that he's a dominant superstar when he's had his ass handed to him in Philadelphia, the Dominican league and in spring training.

Sorry, but I'm not quite getting the erection you folks seem to have about a guy whose highest level of success was a few weeks in Lehigh Valley.

Frankly, he has yet to prove that he's in Wes Chamberlain's league as of today...and he may never be. I'm sorry you seem to be in such denial over this. I know some fans can't get over the idea that their can't-miss prospect can, in fact, miss.

[Klaus]

Dom now occupies Reverend Schweitzer's 8th circle of hell, flanked on either side by steroid users and those who skeptical of latin american age claims (who occupy 9 and 7 respectively).

[Will Schweitzer]

Iceman: I don't recall saying that Rube ruined the franchise. Care to cite a source, or are you just speaking out of your rectum.

[Will Schweitzer]

Hey, I hope you're right. I hope Domonic is an unstoppable force who cannot be stopped, but really, I don't see how it's outrageous to say that this guy hasn't earned the praise that Beerleaguers are giving him for being a major league superstar.

Until he proves otherwise, he's a lottery ticket...and he hasn't proved otherwise.

[NEPP]

If the stage were ever set for Ben Francisco, the time is now...

[NEPP]

@clout: Remember my prediction of BenFran getting 400 PAs this year?

Looking pretty good right now, eh?

[CarlosBeltransexual]

JW, can you please figure out how FanSince09 managed to post under the handles of 75% of the usually sane posters?

Thanks.

[Heather]

Marlon Byrd in the outfield right now would be just fine by me!

Could we make a trade for outfield non-suckitude?

[NEPP]

There has to be a decent OF out there that we can get who would at least bolster the bench. Having BenFran as a starter isnt the end of the world but I dont really like our bench right now. Gload is terrible in the OF and Mayberry Jr cannot hit off-speed pitching. Its a really weak bench now. A Podsednik type player would be nice right now.

[Mister Zoomer]

Quite the 'breaking' news, quite...

[clout]

NEPP: Yes it does. And Jack's prediction about Brown and his statement that the Phils have no need to acquire a RH OF looks pretty weak right now too.

[NEPP]

We definitely need another legitimate MLB OF. I dont know who is out there (not much I'm guessing) but going into the season with Mayberry Jr or Michael Martinez and Gload as backups is a bad idea.

[BobbyD]

"Until he proves otherwise, he's (Brown's) one of a long line of guys to make a splash in the minor leagues who hasn't replicated this in the majors.

Frankly, I'm sick of hearing about him. He's proven nothing."

This time last year, many estimated Brown to be 2 years away from the show. Then because he had such a great year and partly due to injuries, the organization brings him up a little quicker than planned. Then he struggles. Then shortsighted fans like yourself get all over the guy for not being any good. Brown himself as done nothing wrong.

[clout]

Will: I think the truth lies somewhere between your negativity about Brown and the typical yahoo boosterism of Beerleaguer.

Virtually every independent scouting source says Brown is one of the best prospects in baseball. To compare him to Wes Chamberlain or Marlon Byrd is just silly. Neither of them were ever rated remotely as high by scouts.

On the other hand, you are right that there is no such such thing as a can't miss prospect and posters like Jack have made themselves look very silly in their pronouncements about Dom Brown.

I still think he'll be a successful major league player, but it wouldn't be a surpise at all if he spends this season in Trip A. Despite what you read on this blog, he clearly does have more to learn at that level.

[Chris in VT]

Schweitzer- who, exactly, has described Brown as a "superstar"? Using a bit of exaggeration there, aren't we?

[clout]

Of far more concern than Brown is the suggestion that Utley's knee woes may involve more than just patellar tendinitis.

[NEPP]

From what I've read of his injury, its an injury that seriously effects power for the first year but it typically has no lasting issues.

I basically expect nothing from DomBrown for 2011 now and hope to be pleasantly surprised by a 2nd half callup if he recovers as he should.

He needed time to work on his swing and defense anyway so its not a big huge loss.

Hopefully this spurs the FO to go get another 4th OF type to mix/match with BenFran & Co and then Brown comes back in the 2nd half and we are all fine.

[denny b.]

Dom might not have made the team anyway. He has looked terrible. This just makes it easy for the FO to not bring him north. They have an excuse now.

Francisco, Delwyn Young, Gload and Mayberry will be just fine. Give them a chance.

[NEPP]

I didn't watch the game...how/when did he break the bone? He wasn't beaned or anything so what the heck happened?

[derekcarstairs]

If I'm not mistaken, since Brown was injured before being sent to AAA, his time on the DL counts as major league service time for arbitration and free agency purposes. If so, the Phils may not even get the benefit of having him under team control through the 2017 season. The Phils have to hope that Brown comes off the DL soon enough so that he can be sent to AAA for a good part of this season in order to stop his free agency clock and to prevent Brown's becoming a free agent after the 2016 season.

Can someone shed some light on this?

[derekcarstairs]

I neglected to say that the clock does not start running until the regular season begins.

[schmitty's stache]

Wasn't Marlon Byrd selected as a CF for the NL all-star team in 10', why are people citing his name in disgust

[dlhunter]

Marlon Byrd last played for the Phillies in 2005, at which point he was a middling talent and nothing near his billing as a minor league talent.

I'd say the negative comparison has nothing to do with his late career resurgence popping Victor Conte's vitamins.

[nonamePHame]

Why do beerleaguers love mayberry? He isn't playing in south philly if the month does start with an S or one of the starters goes on the DL. As the phillies proved last year they will carry a rule-5 player (Herndon) all year, so Martinez will get every shot (he is also versatile). Delwyn Young has big league experience and can play the infield too, so he's prob on the roster. Valdez, Gload, and Schneider are locks. The starting 8 are locks. That makes 13. Sorry Mayberry, have fun in the LV.

[denny b.]

Michael Martinez won't make the club.

Del Young and Wilson Valdez already give you what Martinez would.

Mayberry makes it (unless there is another move to be made) because of his speed and his ability to play CF. There is nobody else on the roster besides Vic who can play CF.

RFD has played well in his limited opportunities and has always hit in spring training. He's earned an extended shot as a extra outfielder. If not now, when?

[Will Schweitzer]

clout: I agree. Perhaps I was going overboard a bit with comparisons to Wes Chamberlain, but it just seems that the attitude among many on BL is that it's a foregone conclusion that Brown will reach the major leagues and succeed in a starting role in the immediate future.

He really hasn't proven anything yet except that he can hit minor league pitching. We already knew that. Now, I'm waiting for him to prove something else before I continue gushing over him like a schoolgirl (or like a Beerleaguer, as it were).

[Iceman]

Will- you popped up around the worst part of last season predicting doom and gloom. I clicked on a random thread in July and here's what I found near the top:

"As for Victorino, he is by far the most overrated person on the roster. Given an equal opportunity for at bats, Francisco is every bit as productive.

A fire sale should not be out of the question, beginning with Werth and Victorino and possibly extending to Ibanez and Blanton if a contender can be found who is willing to take on the salary. We'll finish just as well in 2010 with an outfield of Brown, Francisco and Mayberry...third place in the NL East.

Posted by: Will Schweitzer | Monday, July 19, 2010 at 09:10 AM"

The next day:

"I wouldn't trust Amaro to manage a Burger King at this point. In the past year and a half, he's shown not to be just a boy among men, but an incompetent buffoon who makes the Randy Quaid character in Christmas Vacation seem sensible and intelligent.

As fond as I am of Uncle Cholly's personality, I think it's time for a manager instead of a hitting coach with a managers job, preferably someone who will go to the bullpen before the man on the mound puts the game out of reach.

This team is a mismanaged business that shows no sign of improving its position. No cash. No prospects. Not a contender.

Dynasty = Over

Posted by: Will Schweitzer | Tuesday, July 20, 2010 at 03:24 PM"

So yes, you said that. If you want to declare Beerleaguer Bankruptcy you're more than welcome to, though I think it might be a wiser more to declare BB on the day and a half you spent arguing about the age of latin american players.

[Will Schweitzer]

I'm pleased to know that I've taken that much time out of your morning.

I suppose I comment out of disgust instead of logic when the sh*t appears to hit the fan, so I'll declare BL Bankrupcy on the doom and gloom.

However, since you're SO interested in bringing up the topic time and time again, I stand by my statement that the assumption that Latin American ballplayers lie about their age (in the absence of suspicion of any other ethnicity) is, in fact, a form of bigotry. It is applying a stereotype exclusively to a single ethnic minority.

And I also stand by my statement that until Brown does something of value at the major league level, he's just another prospect who has yet to prove himself.

[lorecore]

awh/CJ: if "traces of power" isnt acceptable then just take it as - he doesn't have the power that a corner OF should.

And as for platoon splits - if your overall OPS is .770 and you want to be in the lineup as a corner OF, then you better excel at something, like maybe mashing LHP. Howard has an OPS in the 900's, you'd prefer to have his splits even as possible since the overall is so good.

[Jack]

That sucks for Brown, but overall it's not that big a deal, as long as he can recover relatively quickly. Despite what I had predicted (yes, I was likely to be wrong), it looked like Brown was on track to be sent down to AAA to start the year anyway. So this really doesn't change the calculus all that much for the first month or so of the season.

Utley is far more worrisome. The difference between Brown and Francisco is minimal (if not an advantage to Francisco). The difference between Utley and Delwyn Young is huge.

[lorecore]

"your 2011 whipping boy - the Average RF Guy" - as much as i am not pleased that he is now going to be the starting everyday(barring some type of transaction) i'm not going to be harping how much he is killing the team or anything like that. He is a good 4th OF that is likely going to be getting too much playing time, thats all. this team is good enough to allow that. I just get annoyed with people who thinks he's some poor guy who "just needs a chance". He's not, he'd had +1200 PA in 3 seasons in his age 26-28 years to prove what he is - which is a nice 4th OF and nothing more.

[Jack]

Or are we still pretending that the Utley injury isn't a serious concern?

[lorecore]

Spring Training isn't worth Utley's time. He starts opening day without a ST at bat - fine with me.

[cut_fastball]

If RAJ is playing the "downplay/guess the injury" game with the press, I think we should assume the worst about Chase Utley (micro fracture? chronic arthritis?) Right now, Utley is not a productive player, and we have not been provided a clue what's in store.

Although I expect more from the "new" Phillies -- the Utley secretive treatment fees more like an Eagles riff -- I'm assuming 2011 is a lost season for our beleaguered 2nd baseman. Back to reality. Won't Wilson Valdez start at second? I really like his durability and his passion; he's also shown he can hit a little.

It's a new day, and if Ben Fran keeps hitting, and we do not encounter any more serious injuries (a statement able to be made by all 26 ML clubs) it's up to Messrs. Rollins, Victorino and Howard to lead the way. Big man, big pay, Big Piece, big season!

[bullit]

phillies are on tv channel TCN at 1:05 vs tampa bay. yaaay.

[Buddy Ryan in 2008]

All 26 major league teams. Hehe.

[conshy matt]

from Stark's piece on espn.com:

"With what they have now, I don't think they can replace Werth's offense. And that's why I think the Braves have a good chance in that division. If [the Phillies'] offense drops off and their starting rotation stays healthy, they'll be OK. But if any one of their starters goes down, it's a different situation. Now it's not four aces anymore. It's three. And a lot of teams have three."

really? a lot of teams have 3 ACES? i'm sorry, but the scout in that piece was seriously talking out of his @ass.

[Will Schweitzer]

A lot of teams do not have three aces, but I don't disagree with the rest of what Stark had to say.

2011 depends on the health of the Phillies rotation, not on our ability to outslug anyone. We are the 1990's Braves (or as close to it as we've ever been).

[phillengood]

Ice Ice baby. That was awesome. Will is a complete bafoon and everytime I try to point that out to him he proofreads my post and tries to divert from the real argument/evidence at hand.
Thank you for going back through some of his ridiculous posts. He may say you have too much time on your hands but what else is there to do on a rainy Sunday morning.
He promised to go away after he was completely discredited over the Latin American age thing but he never has.

[bullit]

damn. it is on myphl 17. if only i could read. sorry.

[cut_fastball]

Beerleaguer Bankruptcy for me -- I get so wrapped up in the concept of a post and trying to channel something positive from spring training woes, all in a 5 -10 minute span I allot myself as "Beerleaguer Time", I don't fact-check (make that 30 teams... and yes, Brian McCann still plays for the Braves).

I can still hear my late father cite the “26 team” thing as if it was a mantra. Regardless, a baseball fan needs to know and cite how many teams there are in his league. See ya for now.

[phlipper]

"...but it just seems that the attitude among many on BL is that it's a foregone conclusion that Brown will reach the major leagues and succeed in a starting role in the immediate future."

I think the opinion that the season was lost last year if Brown wasn't called up to replace Ibanez may have been held by the majority of BLers. As was the opinion that the failure to sign a second-string backup infielder was proof of RAJ's complete incompetence.

What's interesting is that those who felt that way generally agreed with your assessment that "dynasty - over."

I see that the 2011 season brings with it no shortage of Negative Nellies and Debbie Downers.

[phlipper]

BTW - I was wondering if a stat guy might pull out his slide rule and calculate how much offense would be lost due (the offensive stats of other players being equal) to replacing Werth of last year with a BenFran at his career average stats. How many losses would that translate to in a predictive way statistically?

And how would that increased number of losses compared to a projected increased number of wins when comparing beginning-of-the-season starting rotations of:

Doc, Hamels, Blanton, KK, Moyer

to

Doc, Hamels, Oswalt, Lee, Blanton

And if I'm not mistaken, the Phillies were picked by most "experts" to win the pennant last year.

Only a Debby Downer could look at this team and be hand-wringing. Which explains why so many Phillies fans are hand-wringing.

[conshy matt]

yoooooooooooooo new thread...