Halladay update: Jays writer says pitcher will stay

Toronto Star columnist Richard Griffin insists Roy Halladay isn’t going anywhere (while taking a thinly veiled swipe at bloggers).

Griffin reasons that a decision to trade Halladay would be taken out of GM J.P. Ricciardi’s hands by team president Paul Beeston. Griffin thinks Halladay will play out the season with Toronto, but could be dealt in the off-season. Personally, Griffin’s reasoning seems a little weak to me; he mentions something about how Halladay and Ricciardi’s contracts expire at the same time? I also don’t buy the argument that Halladay’s value would be lower at the deadline than after the season. But read for yourself. [Link]

Comments

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Is this guy trying to ruin my day?!

[thephaithful]

...from last topic you mentioned the Reds are below our recent competition

The Mets are leaps and bounds worst then the Reds.

[Jack]

Sounds like the Jays trying to get the story back under their control, and increase their leverage.

[SmokyJoe]

This is what I hate about some writers. Griffin knows that if he writes a piece related to Halladay moving on, he's just following along (late) to a story-line that is already well-covered (hence the jab at the blogs). However, if he takes the opposite view, backed by weak information, that becomes HIS story and his work will stand out and get noticed, even if his view is highly unlikely.

[loctastic]

Richard Griffin now replaces Robert Eaton as my least favorite person in the world.

[loctastic]

Not sure if you guys saw this, but the Jays had a scout at CBP last night. When Happ was pitching, of course..

http://twitter.com/ScottLauber/status/2522094687

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Jack/SmokyJoe: Good Points.

[Bay Slugga]

The Phillies FO hates Happ for some reason. His name is always in trade talks.

[curt]

LOL. I see the Halladay orgy continues here at BL. Rube aint gonna do it. Think Pedro.

[The Truth Injection]

The biggest obstacle to the Phillies getting Halladay is probably the White Sox. The Jays apparently want a SS in the deal and the Phillies could offer Donald- even though many don't think he will be a fit at that position. That also helps the Brewers and the White Sox.

The Brewers have repeatedly said they will not trade Escobar but the Sox have made no such statement about Beckham. I wouldn't put it past Kenny Williams to offer him in a deal. He loves the big moves.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Biggest obstacle to the White Sox getting Halladay is their coach.

[G-Town Dave]

If what the Phillies need this season is starting pitching, it makes NO SENSE to include Happ in any potential trade. Replacing Happ w/ Halladay would be a big step up talent wise, but unless Roy can pitch in 2 of the 5 rotation slots it still leaves the Phils in need of another arm. Let's keep in mind that Moyer is still a question mark & Lopez has had all of one start so far as a Phillie. As regards the farm system, the only player I'd list as "untouchable" would be Drabek. Again, pitching is the name of the game for the Phils. This team is built to win now, & w/ a better staff it could ... but trading pitching for pitching is a lateral move at best.

[loctastic]

I'd include Happ for Halladay just for the playoff implications.

Halladay - Hamels - Blanton in a short series is way better than Hamels - Blanton - Happ.

[The Truth Injection]

Drabek I'd be real hesitant to give up as well. Something about him just screams "ace." I've seen him pitch and read all the reports on him. His pitches are as good as advertised. What really impresses me about him is his ability to get out of trouble.

All pitching prospects have stuff (really good to excellent. The key to me with a young guy is their ability to make pitches when they need to and their poise when their stuff isn't there on any given start. Drabek has shown that in many cases already. I think he will be a top of the rotation guy at some point whether here or elsewhere. Naturally I hope it's in a Phillies uniform.

[loctastic]

Off-topic: Does anyone know the update on Myers? What's the chance he'll be back by playoff time?

[TK]

I would think Happ is a guy that would be required to get a deal done with Toronto. I doubt they'd accept a deal of strictly prospects.

[Hibachi]

G-Town Dave: I think the reasoning would be that while Halladay minus Happ wouldn't give us huge regular season depth, it would give us amazing postseason depth.

[Deutsche Phan]

Not to gush, but I can't help but think back to the game last season where I sat through 3 hours of rain delay agains Toronto. The sky cleared, weather was perfect, and rather than getting a crack at the flawed Blue Jays bullpen, Doc volunteered to enter the game in relief of Shaun Marcum, and shut us down or 2.1 innings. In addition to the wealth of overwhelming stats, that game sticks in my mind as a nice little anecdote illustrating this guy's mental make-up.

[mm]

I'd be much happier giving up an extra mid-level prospect and moving blanton then moving happ to be honest.

[ED]

Drabek would be my only untouchable.
Marson next as we need more production out of a catcher.

[MPN]

Halladay has apparently listed the Phils, Yanks, and BoSox as teams he'd be willing to waive his FNTC for. JP would be stupid not to try to make a deal with either the Yanks or BoSox contingent upon ridding himself of either the Rios or Wells contracts. The Jays would be stupid to wait until the offseason because Halladays FNTC isn't going away and 1 season of Roy isn't worth the same prospect load as 1.5 seasons of him.

I hope that this Pedro talk is just some misdirection from the Phils in order to ensure that the package we'd offer for Halladay would be more to our liking.

[bay_area_phan]

Truth: I agree with you that Drabek is essentially untouchable, but you left out the most important point: he has pedigree.

[G-Town Dave]

Hibachi: Which is great, but only if the Phillies actually make it to the post season. The way this season is shaping up the only team from the NL East that's gonna be in the playoffs is the division winner, & that said division winner will be the Phils is far from a foregone conclusion.

[The Truth Injection]

BAP: LOL

Mac: I'm not against signing Pedro. In fact, I have been for it since the rumors popped up. I think with the half season off his arm should be in good shape and he could really help the rotation. He isn't what he once was, but he can still get the job done effectively. Plus, as you said, you hold onto all your prospects and keep the well full.

However, if the Phillies can find something the Blue Jays like for Halladay and it doesn't require throwing 2 of your big guns in then I'm for that. At this point Halladay > Pedro.

If we don't get Halladay though and sign Pedro I wouldn't be overly upset. Especailly if Halladay gets traded and a team gives up a ton for him.

[Mac Tonight]

We don't need Halladay any more than we needed Sabathia. Our needs are for a middle of the rotation serviceable starter. Blanton was enough to get the job done last year. A similar pitcher would be good enough to get the job done this season.

I'd prefer signing Pedro for a prorated 5m for the rest of this season and having the trade chips to address other needs later on (or to promote in time) than to mortgage the future by shipping our our blue chips and tying up between 18 and 22 million dollars (depending on what numbers you believe) on an ace that just came off of a stint on the DL.

Maybe it will turn out that I am completely wrong, but I don't think so. I think that fans and journalists alike are blinded with stars in their eyes, and it has impaired their judgment.

Let's just say that one of these journalist's deals goes down: say Happ, Drabek, Donald and Marson for Halladay. Then, let's say that Moyer or Hamels spends some significant time on the DL (one has a history of it while the other is in his late 40s; not out of the question). Do we go with a back end of Lopez and Bastardo or Carassco? Do we take what little chips we have left to acquire Bedard (if we can)?

Trading for Halladay, considering all factors, is a poor decision unless that trade comes on our terms, with Happ, Drabek, Taylor and Brown off of the table.

[mvptommyd]

From reading around Toronto newspapers(including above article) and Toronto blogs. It seems that Halladay could stay in Toronto.

An interesting tidbit from reading around. Halladay and Riccardi's contracts both run out in 2010. IF Halladay does get traded, Riccardi's most likely will be done in Toronto. After seeing that, I go from giving the Phillies a 30% chance of getting him, down to 15%.

I think Rios and Wells are more likely to go than Halladay.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Truth: Not to nitpick, but how do you/we know that Pedro "can still get the job done effectively"? He's definitely a low cost gamble, but he's no sure thing to be better than Lopez, is he?

[Deutsche Phan]

"An interesting tidbit from reading around. Halladay and Riccardi's contracts both run out in 2010."

I see that we are not completely skipping over JW's posts...

[Deutsche Phan]

not = now

[mvptommyd]

deutsche: I thought he wasn't sure, hence the "?".

"he mentions something about how Halladay and Ricciardi’s contracts expire at the same time? "

But anyway, The overall opinion from Blue Jay fans, is if Halladay gets traded and/or not extended in the offseason this year than Ricciardi is out in Toronto.

[JBird]

mvptom: no one wants the contracts of Rios or Wells. The only way they move is for non-prospects and the Jay's picking up most of the remaining salary.

[mvptommyd]

JBird: Right, Wells' contract is absurd. Rios' not so bad, averages to only about $10 million a year. Rios is a guy that can hit around .300, doesn't strikeout often, has some power. Some team would take him off Toronto's hands.

Anyway, back to my main point. If Halladay gets traded or not resigned Ricciardi will get roasted in Toronto.

[The Truth Injection]

BB: Just a hunch. On ESPN they showed BAA for his various pitches and two of his pitches are still very unhittable. I forget which two weren't. I know his slider has become hittable. His changeup still is not.

The biggest knock on Pedro the last few years has been his health. However this year he is sitting out half the season and coming back for maybe 15 starts. I think he can be effective in that time frame and amount of work.

[Marlowe]

Happ has been impressive for the Phils this year both in long relief and starting, but I imagine he is part of a deal. If it gets us Halladay, fine by me. It's probably an unfair comparison to Happ, but KK had 10 wins, a reasonable 1.27 WHIP and a 3.87 ERA in 2007. There's no guarantee Happ won't taper off, even though I like him and think he has better control and more poise than Kendrick. Given the FO's propensity for dangling him in trade talks, perhaps they see this moment as his peak value -- akin to KK in 2007, in retrospect.

If the deal for Halliday would be Happ, Brown or Taylor, Marson and Donald, as some have suggested, I'd be overjoyed. I think we may need to throw in another pitching prospect. Halliday is phenomenal; I think he's the best out there and from press reports he has an Utley-esque discipline and work ethic. I just sincerely hope we don't trade Drabek. There's no sure thing, but he's high probability.

Speaking of Drabek, anyone read the Baseball America article (below) pegging Kyle as the #3 'high-impact minor league call-ups for the second half?' It says the Phils will likely use him in the bullpen down the stretch. I hadn't heard this before, and it made me think one of two possibilities. First, the Phils are accelerating a prospect's promotion -- atypical but not unprecedented, as they brought up Hamels at 22 after only three Triple-A appearances. Second, Phils are pushing the idea that he's an imminent call-up as part of trade scuttlebutt. Any thoughts?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/07/07/ba.prospects/index.html?eref=sihpT1

[TNA]

Not quite the same situation, but if the Phillies were out of contention and looking to unload payroll given dismal attendance, would Phillies beatwriters be advocating the trade of a Hamels, Utley, Howard or another face of the Phillies? (assumption is that Hamels, etc. would be the same age and under the same contract terms as Halladay) Probably not. This is my way of saying that the Toronto journalists are probably a wee bit biased; and Jays management is not going to want to be perceived by the Toronto public as shortchanging fans or giving up on the season, further depressing attendance.

As with most media stuff when it comes to trades, but particularly when it comes out of the 'homer' papers, take it with a grain of salt.

[Jack]

I will admit mvptommy is the most knowledgable person about baseball on here before Vernon Wells gets traded.

[mvptommyd]

TNA: The beatwriters don't want to trade Halladay eithier. No one does. That is why all the negativity towards Ricciardi. Well this along with trading away Orlando Hudson a few moons ago.

[mvptommyd]

Jack: What are you saying? Complete sentences please.

[Tony D]

Halladay is a lock for 17-20 wins next year. He would dominate the National League. I would drive Drabek to the airport.

For the love of god please no Pedro.

[Jack]

The beatwriters' report above fits in perfectly with the strategy employed by Riccardi. Leak out that Halladay is available, opening up the door for all offers, and then point out why you would keep him, increasing the leverage on the teams who are seriously pursuing him. Considering this report came from a Toronto beatwriters, I would be shocked if it wasn't part of the strategy by their FO to maximize the return on Halladay.

[Jack]

I'm saying Wells will not get traded. No chance whatsoever. There is a better chance that I would declare you the most knowledgable poster about baseball. And I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[TNA]

btw, the guy Toronto should be looking to trade is Aaron Hill who is having a Nady-esque outlier season, and can help a ballclub looking to win this season. He'd look good as the RH bat off the bench.

I'm not sure how to value Phillies' prospects given that prospects' values in general are elevated this year, but my sentiment is that most of the offers put on the table put together by BLers are a bit high. We're overvaluing the NPV of Halladay while undervaluing Phillies prospects. Yes, there's obviously more risk with prospects, but, look at the Santana deal for reference in terms of deal structuring.

[mvptommyd]

Tony D: I agree. As I have said from the start, I would rather part with Taylor than Drabek. But hey for Halladay, I would settle.

Also, I agree with Pedro. Although I read at numerous places that yesterday when he pitched for the Phillies. He was hitting 88-91 on fastballs, good breaking stuff. Also, Philies are confident IF they get him, he can hit 93.

[donc]

A beat writer being used to distribute disinformation? That would never happen.

[kart racer]

So when does this line vs LHP start becoming an issue for Howard: .194 .259 .321 .580

Along with the .327 OBP overall

[clout]

Does this mean that mac tonight's declaration -- that "if they're lucky, a handful of B-level prospects" is all the Jays will get -- might be wrong?

[mvptommyd]

Jack: I said "Wells' contract is absurd"

So I agree with you. I said Rios is more than likely the one to go.

[G-Town Dave]

"We needed a hit there. We didn't need a home run, & I thought Bruntlett had a chance - he got to play [Monday] & he hit a ball good - to make contact & something might happen." - Charlie Manuel

Yes, Charlie, he "hit a ball good" ... off of a SS who has given up 11 earned runs in 2 innings of relief so far this season. How's about next time you base your PH decisions on who's hitting the ball good vs. actual Major League pitching, eh?

I know it's over & done w/ & there's no good reason to keep beating this dead horse, but still ... Eric "No Hit, No Field Gnome" Bruntlett, a certified Zero Tools player, hitting not once but TWICE w/ the game on the line? Un-f*cking-believable ... :-[

[kart racer]

The 1 home run in 101 innings thing is reason enough to keep Drabek for CBP.

[G-Town Dave]

kart: When he stops hitting 40+ HR & driving in 130+ runs per season.

[TNA]

Racer-
If past trends are any indication, Howard's numbers are almost irrelevant before the AS break.

[CJ]

Jon Heyman continues to suggest that the Phils are likely in the catbird seat for Halladay because the Jays won't deal to the Yanks or Red Sox (despite suggestions to the contrary) and because Halladay has a limit to where he'd be traded, and the Phils may be the only other team left on his list.

[MG]

Jack - Agreed. Leak a story to the local beat guy in Toronto to potentially try and increase leverage especially since it is almost impossible that Ricciardi would move Halladay to the Red Sox/Yanks.

Still don't think Halladay gets moved because of several factors - the no-trade clause, inability to move him to an AL East rival, backlash that Toronto would take for the remainder of this year and this offseason with ticket sales, and the likely extension Halladay wants in order to get moved.

What makes more sense is that Halladay gets moved this offseason as the Blue Jays try to avoid the backlash from trading their most popular player and Halladay signs an extension with his new team.

Maybe the Jays move Wells or Rios but they likely would have to pay a portion of Wells deal and lower their high asking tag on Halladay.

Either way, Ricciardi is done in Toronto after next year. Terribly difficult job of competing against the Yanks and Red Sox on an annual basis but he has been pretty unpopular up there since the Ryan injury fiasco and guessed wrong on some really bad moves although the Wells signing was universally panned/criticized at the time as a dumb signing. Everyone said the Jays should have let him walk and take the two compensation first round picks or have traded him. Also didn't help that the Jays have been snakebit with pitching injuries too. They could have contended the last 2 years if their pitching staff hadn't been deciminiated by season-ending injuries.

[donc]

Heard on the radio and ESPN this morning that the Angels are also in on Halladay. They apparently have the cash and are loaded with prospects.

[clout]

CJ: And the best part is we can have him for "a handful of B-level prospects."

Moose Mattair, D'Arby Myers and some dudes should get it done, no?

[donc]

As long as we dont have to give up Mazzone. I feel whole again now that he's back.

[BobbyD]

check out the latest on mlbtraderumors. a lot of people are saying phils are frontrunners for halladay.

since it's not our money, how great would it be if they got halladay and wells/rios?!

[CJ]

clout: I can't believe you're the first to mention the potential of dealing Some Dudes for Halladay. That was pretty obvious.

However, as the actual suitors for Hallady diminishes, the leverage of the Blue Jays also goes down.

That said, it's going to take a king's ransom to get Halladay. I'm prepared for that.

[Reverend]

MG where did you see that Halladay is requesting an extension with the team that he would be traded to? I haven't seen that anywhere.

[p. Red]

This article reads like wishful thinking to me, more than anything else. In a nutshell: "Ricciardi wouldn't trade Doc, because.... well he just can't!"

Did he have any valid points as to why they wouldn't trade Halladay? Other than the fact that he is the face of the franchise, so they can't trade him. (Johan Santana and the Twins say hi!) I sure couldn't find any.

[Jack]

donc: Can you name any of those prospects they're loaded with? Everyone always says the Angels have a ton of prospects. But I don't really think that's true. Who would they headline the deal with? Brandon Wood, who hasn't hit AT ALL everytime he's been called up? What combo of prospects would they send that's better than what we could send?

[JPB705]

BobbyD:

No one, including the Blue Jays, wants Vernon Wells. He is not what he used to be and I am assuming you made that comment without seeing his numbers/salary.

[MG]

BobbyD - Why would the Phils be remotely interested in Wells/Rios. They already have 3 starting OFs who are just fine. They just need to upgrade their right-handed bat off the bench.

I still think they will do it but it will a veteran guy and it will happen in August after the trading deadline. Along the lines of a Conine/Stairs type move. Hopefully he works out as well as Stairs did and not like Conine who was a bust here in '06 down the stretch.

[MG]

Reverend - If Halladay gives up the comfort of pitching in Toronto and more importantly his no-trade clause that allows him to control his destiny for the next 1 1/2 years until FA, I would expect he wants some real certainty (e.g, financial extension) and compensation in return.

[JBird]

Maybe I'm overlooking someone, but unless the Jay's are suckered into believing Sean Rodriguez's park inflated stats are for real, the Halos only have 2 prospects (Wood & Walden) that can match what the Phillies can offer.

[Max]

Folks, I live in Toronto & can tell you that Richard Griffin is far & away the least credible writer in the city. People are always laughing at the guy (last year Fire Joe Morgan ripped Griffin pretty badly), so seriously, don't put any weight in his opinion.

[TNA]

MG-
Couldn't Halladay simply demand a re-up of that NTC with the new team over the next 1.5 years? I'd imagine that playing for a playoff contender and a good supporting cast could put his numbers off the charts and make him even more valuable at the end of 1.5 years.

[donc]

Jack: No names were mentioned and I have zero knowledge of the Angels prospects. But those reports were from two different people. One I never heard of before. The other was Buster Olney who did preface that remark by saying the Phillies were absolutely the favorite. The other guy also said that the Angels were loaded with prospects and he pointedly said that the Phillies did not have enough attractive prospects to make the deal. I believe I heard him on with Colin Cowherd, which of course is ESPN also.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Once upon a time, Gillick was a big Rios guy. Not sure if he is anymore or if Amaro is.

[ACI]

So if we have to take Rios/Wells in the deal (hypothetically) What's a fair offer? Werth,Happ,Donald? Is that enough? Assuming we pay 100% of the contract.

[Max]

Should also add that R. Griffin is widely known to be the biggest Ricciardi detractor in the city. He never writes a column without taking potshots at the G.M....all to advance his absurd narrative on the team.

[Mac Tonight]

I really have to chuckle at how much leverage you all believe the Blue Jays have when they have none at all.

B-Level Prospects (at least in my opinion) = Donald, Marson, Mayberry, Kendrick, Bastardo, Carassco, Worley, Carpenter, Savery, Hewitt, etc...

A-Level Prospects (again, IMHO) = Drabek, Taylor, Brown, and for purposes of this discussion, Happ.

If Amaro plays hard ball, Ricciardi has two choices:

1. He either gets the roughly 18 - 22 mil of salary on the books through 2010 at a cost of giving up his ace for a collection of good, but not great prospects.

2. He keeps his ace and his salary and tries again later.

How soon we've all forgotten how drastically the market has changed. Inexpensive serviceable pitching is at a premium. Expensive starters with FNTC are not.

Hey clout, buddy! Nice to see you back. I'm still waiting for that massive list of other teams who have the money to make the trade, and what prospects they might offer that trump four of our b-listers. Are you really only good for snide, trite insults, or would you actually like to add something to the discussion for a change? You've had almost 15 hours.

Let's see you back your statement. Why do the Blue Jays have the Phillies over a barrel? What are their other options?

Ante up, son. Don't pull another disappearing act like last night.

[Jack]

ACI: If we're willing to take on all of either Rios/Wells salary, it would reduce the amount of talent we'd have to send back.

But there's no way we would do it, so it's a moot point.

[MG]

TNA - Why would Halladay care about getting his no-trade clause reinstated when it is highly unlikely the team that acquires him would move him again before his pending FA at the end of 2010?

As for "playing for a winner." That's largely bunk. Phils don't have a cache that the Red Sox or Yanks do in that regard. Hell, Amaro couldn't even convince a right-handed bat to come here this offseason although he supposedly made several attempts to do so.

Why would Halladay want to come and pitch for the next 1 1/2 years in CBP and damage his potential value in FA? Or for that matter live in Philly?

Reality is that if you have money there are much more compelling (and cheaper) places to live in the US.

[Max]

Interesting article on Halladay's value at Fangraphs:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/roy-halladays-trade-value

[Bedrosian's Beard]

MG-if Halladay has actually said the he'd come to Philly (which is rumored), your argument is moot

[Mac Tonight]

Jack: I agree. The chances of Rios/Wells and Werth/Victorino becoming part of the deal are almost zero.

I'll re-state what I said before, and if I'm wrong, I'll admit that I'm wrong:

If Halladay is traded during the 2009 season, the buzz around the baseball world will be how little value the Jays got in return for him.

In other words, he either stays put or he's traded for an underwhelming package of good, but not great prospects.

Take it to the bank.

ps: clout- still waiting for you to put your money (or rather your already weak reputation) where your mouth is and list just one team with the financial resources to make the deal, along with the players they'd include that trump four off of our b-list. Come on, sonny. You've copied and pasted sarcasm enough for one day. Time to put on your big boy jeans and talk at the grown up table.

[DPatrone]

Don't count on Halladay coming to Philly. Love to have him though. I just don't think it'll get done. The price to pay for him is very high both in prosects and $$. All the "Phils are the front-runners at this point" talk is just that.

I don't want Pedro or Marquis (by himself) at this point either. I think that the biggest need is a BP guy. But we also still need a RH bat. Bruntlett just doesn't cut it leaving Mayberry (whom I like) as the only other option. If we get those 2 pieces plus a starter then we'll be fine.

I would love for the Phils to make a blockbuster trade that would favor them, but I don't necessisarily agree with the price as a whole that would have to paid. One would have to think that IF the Phils somehow landed Halladay, an extension in the 20 mil/year range would have to come with it. I don't know if the Phils would pay that price. It could very well be that we are all getting our hopes up for nothing. Also I would love to see Myers back in a Phils uniform next year either as a starter or reliever.

[TNA]

MG-
if Halladay doesn't care about getting his NTC reinstated, why should he be compensated for it?

[brad]

If the Jays end up requiring Happ in the trade, it is possible that Pedro still signs and fills the void as the #5 starter. I don't see any chance the Phillies take on Rios or Wells contracts. It is simply too much money.

[p. Red]

Mac: You really think the Phillies are the only team that are going to be interested in Halladay? The Blue Jays are in a good position because they have the best pitcher in baseball to trade. Every contending team will at least explore the option to make a deal.

Ricciardi already said he would have to be blown away by the deal to accept. Not to mention, Halladay's contract doesn't expire at the end of this season. Meaning if the Jays don't like any offers they get prior to this season's trade deadline, they are free to wait until the offseason, or even to deal him prior to next year's deadline.

The Phils don't have the upper-hand here, they are going to have to come up with a strong offer to a) beat any offers from other teams and b) make it worth the Jay's while to trade Halladay now as opposed to hold out for better offers.

[Mac Tonight]

Brad: I don't see the Phillies unloading an inexpensive, young, serviceable SP under team control for quite a while for Pedro.

However, if the deal for Halladay included Happ, Donald, Marson and Carassco (not Drabek, Taylor or Brown) AND the Phillies pick up Pedro for the remainder of the season, I wouldn't be dissatisfied.

[gm-carson]

Eric Bruntlett should be released. I could give a spit if Greg Dobbs had to play SS if Rollins went down, because Bruntlett's bat is beyond pathetic. A few seasons ago, I campaigned for a little known minor league utility infielder by the name of Bobby Scales to get the call up to the bigs and displace No-Hit Nunez on the roster. My new cause- Neil Sellers. He bats right, he plays mostly 3rd, but has seen time at 2nd and 1st, and 1 game at SS in his 6 minor league seasons. He was an all-star for the Reading Phillies this season, and he has a decent bat- .310/.854, 41 r, 20 dbl, 9 hr, 48 rbi on the season, which is in line with his career totals. Time to promote the 27 year old and get rid of that worthless sack of potatoes known as Eric Bruntlett.

[TNA]

max - that fangraphs article is ok. but cameron doesn't discount future years, as far as i can tell; this results in an overstatement of halladay's value and an understatement of prospects' values..

[JBird]

But Eric Bruntlett is scrappy and a proven winner (sarcasm)

[ozark]

Lots of $ comes off the books next year.

[Mac Tonight]

Red: The Phillies aren't the only team interested, but they're the only team that is realistically possible. Trading to a division rival is almost out of the question (and the Red Sox probably wouldn't do it anyway, as they are very tight fisted with their top prospects).

If you know of a team that has prospects that are more attractive to the Jays than any four off of the B-List in my above posts AND they have the spendable cash to dedicate to one pitcher, please, by all means, enlighten me. Who besides the Phillies could afford to make the trade and what would they give up?

With the Jays finances as they are, they need to unload Halladay more than any club needs to acquire him.

[MG]

TNA - Because Halladay controls his destiny with the full NTC. Why would he just give that up for nothing?

BB - It's rumored but the facts are that CBP is not a park you necessary want to pitch in if you are trying to showcase your numbers for impending FA and that Philly is neither a cheap area from a tax standpoint or necessarily the most compelling to live if you have some dough.

[clout]

Mac: Carrasco is a B level prospect?

Every scouting report I've seen ranks him among the Phils top 3 and several have him #1.

I posted the list of teams that have the farm systems, money and talent to make a trade for Halladay yesterday. You ignored it.

But as I said, we'll find out how silly your declaration is soon enough.

[Jack]

Ozark: No, it doesn't. Have you factored in raises due to Werth, Hamels, Howard, Blanton, Victorino, Ruiz, and others?

[donc]

Ozark: Lots goes on too.

[JBird]

MG: Canadian tax rates are higher than in the US.

[Jack]

Mac Tonight: Do they need to unload him right now? Do you think the 7 million owed to him for the rest of this season is so important that they HAVE to deal him before the deadline?

[Mac Tonight]

"I posted the list of teams that have the farm systems, money and talent to make a trade for Halladay yesterday. You ignored it."

Link?

...and yes, Carassco is B-level.

[Marlowe]

MG: I think it's likely that pitching the lion's share of your games against NL East rivals vs. the monsters in the AL East would more than offset park factors.

[p. Red]

Mac: I'm not familiar enough with the rest of the major's farm systems (especially their B-level prospects) to know how they stack up with the Phils. Based on the rumors that the Phils are the frontrunners to aquire Halladay, it would seem that your assumption that no one can match the Phils combo of money and prospects is correct.

However you are assuming that the Jays are just going to take the best offer available prior to this year's deadline, even if it is below what they believe Halladay to be worth. I don't think that is the case. I think that if they aren't getting what they believe to be fair-market value for Halladay, they are perfectly happy to wait until the offseason or the first half of next year to try dealing him again. Ricciardi has said as much.

This isn't like the Sabathia situation, where the Indians knew they wouldn't be able to resign him at the end of the year and they had to deal him prior to the deadline or he would end up leaving and they would get next to nothing in return. The Jays can afford to be patient and wait for the right deal. That is all I'm saying.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Carrasco isn't a B level guy. Perhaps Drabek is an A+ prospect and CC is "merely" an A.

[donc]

Mac: If the Blue Jays absolutely must get rid of him and the Phillies are the only real trade partner available, then yes the Phillies have the Jays over a barrel. Most on here just don't see it that way. I pray to god that you are right. I'd love to get one of the top two or three starters in the game for a handfull of magic beans (which is basically what you are proposing), I just don't think you are reading the tea leaves correctly. At any rate, stating your position 15 different times doesn't seem to have changed too many minds. Keep at it if you wish, but until this plays out it's just conjecture. My guess is that Halladay stays put.

[ozark]

Myers, Eaton, Jennings saves more than they will add, I do believe.

[JBird]

Bed's Beard: According to John Sickles at the beginning of the year:

1) Carlos Carrasco, RHP, Grade B: High ceiling, made progress this year, still erratic. Maybe a B+?