Game chat: Cubs enter for two-game fling in Philly

Lefties Tom Gorzelanny (1-4, 3.60) and Jamie Moyer (5-2, 4.57) meet when the Cubs and Phillies open a short set starting tonight at 7:05.

Preview: Money hasn't bought the 18-22 Cubs happiness. Chicago maintains a $146.6 million payroll, the third highest in baseball. They've lost nine of their last 12 and are 5.5 games out in the central circuit. It's such a weak league this year, isn't it? Meanwhile, the Phillies try to rebound after giving one away last night against the Pirates. Still riding high at 10 games over .500, the Phils welcome back Chase Utley, who's been out the last two games with flu-like symptoms. So to make room, Jimmy Rollins will slide down to the six hole, bumping Raul Ibanez to seventh.

Comments

[denny b.]

Might be the everyday batting lineup the rest of the year?

[TBex]

What a nasty lineup.

[bananagrabbers]

Wow. Very interesting line-up. I thought Utley's absence was just delaying the inevitable return of Rollins to the lead-off spot.

[Old Phan]

Excellent lineup. Should yield at least 2 runs.

[phlipper]

MG - the point is that Ibanez being LH was not, in and of itself, even with his career splits, a reason that the signing was bad. The Phillies offense has been solid against LHP since he was signed. Yes, sometimes in late innings they are susceptible to LH relief pitchers, but overall they've had a good record (and aggregated stats, comparatively) against LH starters, and most pitchers in the league are RH.

As for the question of age - of course age is a factor. But in the specifics of Burrell and Ibanez, I said that their conditioning and injury history were more relevant than just a simple comparison of their chronological age. Not to be morbid, but it's like when someone is given general probabilities about surviving a cancer diagnosis. Those numbers are basically worthless unless you factor in someone's conditioning and health history.

Of course, I could easily have been wrong, but I said that Burrell was likely to break down more quickly than Ibanez because Ibanez is so serious about his condititiong, and I was called an "idiot" for expressing that opinion. So be it. No big deal. But maybe folks should learn from past history - and realize that just opinions are just opinions.

[GTown_Dave]

inthephilshouse (via Twitter): "Charlie said he doesn't think Rollins will be toward the bottom of the lineup long"

Then I hope it's fun while it lasts. *shrugs*

[phlipper]

I was wondering if Charlie had said anything on the subject.

Maybe this lineup will produce so well that Charlie won't rearrange it - but given his history, even if this lineup does produce it seems unlikely that Charlie won't go back having Rollins lead-off.

[BobbyD]

Halladay vs. Beckett down the tubes Sunday. Beckett on the D.L. Wakefield instead. Phillies would fare better against Beckett.

[GTown_Dave]

Despite the forboding look of the skies here at the Ballpark, only a 20% chance of rain (or so says the weather report). Even so, I don't figure Charlie will let Moyer throw more than 150 pitches or so ... unless the Phils are winning, that is. Anything goes at that point!

[Old Phan]

Moyer is good for at least 200 pitches tonight.

[CJ]

Jamie Moyer is Washed Up (tm). We'll be lucky to get 60 pitches out of him.

[bay_area_phan]

With Moyer, you obviously have to be pretty careful about pitch counts. This kid's got a bright future ahead of him. You don't want to ruin it before he even gets started.

[doubleh]

Mets benched Wright, eh? Trying to get his head right or what?

[GTown_Dave]

Ugh. Byrd. I forgot about him. If the Moyer HR + Ex-Phillies Slaughter Us trends hold true, he's gonna go deep at least once.

[doubleh]

Moyer's recent stats vs. Cubs not so good:
Jamie Moyer has gone just 1-1 with a 6.20 (14/20.1) ERA in his last four starts against the Cubs. Chicago is hitting .366 (34/93) in those four games, the highest average of any team against Moyer since 2007 (Minimum 2 G).

Meh.

[goody]

Did Byrd become a vegetarian?

[CJ]

doubleh: Yeah, they benched him, apparently for one game, to clear his head. Wright says he's best served by playing tonight, especially against Livan, a pitcher against whom he's hit very well.

The Mets are a mess in so many ways... I feel sorry for him sometimes.

[doubleh]

CJ: Every time I see him I feel sorry for him, but mostly sorry that he doesn't play for us. I'm not ashamed to admit it.

[GTown_Dave]

Polanco are awesome. :-)

[doubleh]

Polanco is a slight upgrade from Feliz, yes?

[CJ]

doubleh: Yeah... I'd love to have him manning our hot corner. He's a great talent stuck in a terrible franchise. Oh, and he's on my fantasy team, so he better get it together!!!!!

[doubleh]

Guess not too many people grabbing this game tonight.

[bay_area_phan]

In 1924, Rogers Hornsby hit .424, the single highest batting average ever posted in a season.

The odds of that record being broken within the next 10 years are significantly less remote than the odds of Ryan Howard ever again getting 7 consecutive hits against left-handed pitching.

[dlhunter]

Marlon Byrd, enigma.

[dlhunter]

Why don't pitchers just crouch down and create a tiny strike zone?

[HammRadio]

Polanco's unfamiliarity with playing with JROLL cost us a run. That happens.

[LwrSlwrGeorge]

There goes our lead-off hitter swinging athe the first pitch again. Take a pitch, Rolli ... oh, wait...

[GTown_Dave]

That's what we get for complimenting Polanco. And w/ the average Moyer pitch taking roughly 6 minutes to go from his hand to Chooch's globe, it's a wonder more teams aren't running on him.

[joe l]

Mackanin -- do you ever second guess some of Charlie's questionable decisions (see last night, 130+ pitches for Halladay)? What exactly do the Phillies pay you for again?

[tg082]

Radio-listeners: What's worse, the current Jim Jackson experiment, or Larry Andersen's play-by-play experiment in 2007? I think L.A. was worse, but the difference is marginal.

[LwrSlwrGeorge]

Byrd saw more pitches in that AB than all Phils batters last inning.

[tg082]

Also, and I apologize that this doesn't have anything to do with the game and it has probably already been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the deal with the comments not displaying? Is it a personal problem I'm having, or is it a permanent issue that we have to try to overlook?

(The commenting problem is largely why I don't Beerleague like I did the past couple years.)

[LwrSlwrGeorge]

Jackson does great hockey.

Not so for baseball.

[joe l]

tg082 - sometimes clicking the timestamp of the last comment helps. Though sometimes I submit a comment and it never seems to appear. Not sure which you're talking about.

[doubleh]

Jackson's voice is not suited for baseball because he finds himself needing to explain everything like you have to do in hockey PBP. He also only knows excited and EXTREMELY EXCITED (like a goal scored). It just doesn't translate to baseball.

[LwrSlwrGeorge]

hh: mostly agree. I take it you listened to his description of Howard's groundout. I was waiting for him to say "HIT THE POST!!" at the end.

[doubleh]

No, not today, but the other day in the car we were listening to a game and he went so far as to describe the looks on the players faces. He's just filling up space because he has to stay in hockey shape.

[MG]

Recent cold snap but a temporary halt to 'Hitting Season?'

[bay_area_phan]

It's funny how the Phillies' offense can go from scalding hot to insufferably pathetic without ever passing through the vast middle-ground zone of mediocrity.

[MG]

Emmels seems like he is giving both guys a pretty liberal strike zone . . .

[Old Phan]

6 Ks for Young Jamie

[LwrSlwrGeorge]

Pretty econimical inning for him also. 14 pitches.

[Spitz]

BAP, I attribute it to Ben Francisco sucking the mojo out their bats by getting a start last night.

[curt]

When Werth isn't banging a lefty can make this team look pretty feeble.

Cholly might have to consider a SB or even (gasp) a hit and run somewhere along the way.

[goody]

It's good to see Moyer's "1 bad inning" down to 1 run, but it feels like 1 too many tonite.

[MG]

Ibanez's early season struggles against LHP continue . . .

[GTown_Dave]

Moyer has pitched very well thus far. So, um ... Offense? Anyone? Bueller?

[LwrSlwrGeorge]

Curt: That would require a Phils baserunner. Something that has not happened since the 2nd inning.

[bay_area_phan]

The Phillies seem to be using these last 2 games as a dress rehearsal for the interleague part of their schedule.

[SmokyJoe]

Is Gorzelanny the same pitcher as Duke? The results are the same.

[Scott]

I think Gorzelanny is a kind of cheese. Sadly, we can't hit that cheese...

[MG]

Gorzelanny looks like the guy tonight who was a pretty effective starter with the Pirates before he was stricken with a slew of injuries. Deceptive fastball that can be a tough for lefties to pick up & a decent slider that keeps them off-balance.

[gobaystars]

Why does everyone who post on this site take tremendous issue with being disagreed with? Half the posts on here are atacks on people who disagreed with someone else. Too much I told you so. "I knew Raul was better than Burrell. I knew Polanco was better than Figgins. I knew Moyer wasn't done. And anyone who questioned me at the time is a moron." Relax.

But anyway, on to my cubs post.
The cubs, the biggest bunch of losers ever. Sure the phillies have lost more but the cubs love losing. It's all they are. They wrap themselves up in losing. The fans love it. The orginizations loves it. When the Phillies were awful the vet was like a prison. Meaning you might get stabbed. When the cubs are awful Wrigley is like a party. Lose it up losers. I will forever be proud of the fact that the Phillies never made losing cute or endering like the cubs and redsox. We were miserable when we lost and wanted nothing more than to win. I hope the cubs have another century of losing to enjoy.

[Scott]

I kind of miss the Twitter feeds...

[LwrSlwrGeorge]

PtB would have made that look routine.

[curt]

I miss the pre-twitter women from last year.

[Hope SE]

Moyer a 2 hitter, one run, through 6 and . . . down. Go figure.

[MG]

gobaystarts - It is usually better than because it is usually civil even if heated & people who brings some good observations & well-supported thoughts.

Why the hate for the Cubs?

[MG]

Ibanez with a really good catch there. Polanco play notwithstanding the defense just seems more crisp tonight. Not playing in a bit of a mental fog.

[Mick O]

Catching up on a previous thread:

Did you know that "got untracked" first appeared in newspaper sports story in 1927?

If they've been using it that long -- to mean "get out of a rut" I don't think you're gonna stop 'em now.

More on this fascinating subject:

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002148.html

[Old Phan]

gobaystars, there's nothing wrong with supporting your team when they're losing. I'm sure Cubs fans would like to see a winner. It's easy to support a team like the Phillies.

[MG]

Run and hit here especially with a contact-oriented hitter up.

[Old Phan]

Nice to see an SB for a change!

[MG]

Duke isn't the same pitcher as Gorzelanny. Gorzelanny is a fastball/slider guy. Plus he throws a bit harder too. Duke is more of a fastball/curveball guy.

[Brian G]

First of all, I'd like to thank Hugh M (among others) for the BL jinx: "That lineup, one through eight, is pretty damn tough."

Second of all, what's with the idea that this lineup is SO much better with Rollins and Vic switched? They're not much different in talent, and have we already forgotten how insanely dominant we were to start the season with J-Roll leading off?

[Brian G]

Contradicting my post earlier today, I'd be very happy with a single from slap-hitter Howard here.

[gobaystars]

I'm not talking about supporting. I'm talking about this "lovable losers" thing and romanticising it. The cubs made it the essence of who they are. The Phillies never made love to their losses.

[MG]

Gorzelanny made some good pitches but man it was so predictable to see Howard whiff vs. a LHP with a good slider when he was 1-2.

[MG]

Gorzelanny got Howard on a changeup away but Howard had to be thinking slider away there. Either way it was a lousy swing.

[MG]

Howard's recent mini-hitting streak against LHP has him up to .265 but he still has struck over over 1/3 of the time (68 ABs, 22 Ks).

Last year it was 38% and '08 it was 41%. Lot of ABs with no contact.

[gobaystars]

hottest pitcher in baseball? jamie moyer?

[gobaystars]

until now.
the problem isn't milt, charlie, injuries or the third base coach. we need a warm front and fast.

[MG]

Polanco knocks that down and keep it in the INF no way Soriano scores there with how slow he runs now.

[HammRadio]

taller 3B and this game is still nothing nothing

[Old Phan]

OK, boys. Let's start supporting your pitchers.

[Old Phan]

"taller 3B and this game is still nothing nothing"
or at least one with longer arms.

[sifl]

Wait, what's going on with the lack of tweets? Did I miss something?

[MG]

Moyer is done tonight but tip of the cap. He threw everything but the kitchen sink out there but it worked. Kept the Cubs off-balance all night as he got ahead with the cutter/sinker and was finishing them changeups/curveballs.

Moyer's May ERA is now 3.49 in 4 GS.

[MG]

Ruiz stood in the box there but that was a hell of a play by Gorzelanny.

[Old Phan]

Fantastic play by Gorzelanny.

[GTown_Dave]

Much like Halladay last night , Moyer has gotten NO help from his teammates. Then again, the Phillies have been facing the great Cy Gorzelanny ...

Nobody Hits! (Boooooo! Boooooo!)

[curt]

Yeah, you really hate to see a performance like this wasted, especially on top of last nights.

[Sophist]

I think Francisco may just not know how to PH.

I hate, hate, hate the Cubs.

[curt]

Another dominant appearance from All-Star-in-Waiting Ben Fran.

[LwrSlwrGeorge]

Frustrating.

[B.A. Baracas]

Fransisco should have stayed with Cliff Lee

[curt]

I'm thinking it might be at least 3 days before the chorus of "Start Ben Fran" starts up again.

[doubleh]

Sophist: Why hate for the Cubs? You from Chicago area or something?

[MG]

That was one turd of an AB by Francisco. It just doesn't look comfortable up there as a PH. Now just 7-39 as a PH (.173)

Hasn't been a factor in alot of their games or discussed much but the Phils' bench has been pathetic late in games this year - Now just 6-50 (.120) with Dobbs at 1-15 and Francisco at 1-8. Worst stats in the NL by quite a margin

[Sophist]

hh - Not from but live here.

curt, you're right. because a bunch of idiots base their opinion of a guy on a handful of PA.

This is a frustrating game. Not just bc the Phils aren't getting many hits, but because the Cubs aren't either and the only difference are a couple of little squibbers that went the Cubs way.

[MG]

Rookie. Erased.

[doubleh]

I agree with Sophist. This game is frustrating because Cubs are getting lucky. Moyer pitched much better than Gorzawhoozy IMO.

[MG]

This bench could really use a guy like Greg Gross right now. Yeah they probably will get better as the season goes but people who criticize Francisco as a PH have some valid stuff & Dobbs has been a lousy PH now since the late '08.

[LwrSlwrGeorge]

Is this the Y2K club?

[Sophist]

MG, I think Dobbs will recover bc he was largely just injured last year. I think Benny may just have no idea how to PH. He's a solid hitter otherwise.

[Sophist]

Howard v Lefty with 2 men on and 1 out.

[gobaystars]

somebody must have turned up the heat at CBP.

[MG]

Finally a little luck here. Now the dreaded Howard vs. LHP reliever who throws a nasty slider at times.

[gobaystars]

big man was safe.

[Sophist]

Two bits of luck.