Game chat: Phils hope to resuscitate lifeless lumber

The Phillies have gone 22 innings without scoring against an opposing starter and have been blanked in 28 of 29 innings. They'll try to reignite their thundersticks in Game 2 tonight from Citi Field.

Preview: The Phillies swap out the 6-7-8 hitters tonight, but they're not the only ones who've struggled over the last seven days. Shane Victorino is hitting .105/.227/.158. Ryan Howard is producing at a .188/.316/.375 clip. Placido Polanco is hitting just .200/.294/.333. They've also run into some problems on the mound, posting a 6.58 ERA over the same stretch. For the Phillies, Joe Blanton (1-2, 5.06) looks to build on a solid, seven-inning start in his previous outing. He'll face lefty Hisanori Takahashi, who shut out the Yankees over six innings in his first start since moving from the bullpen to the rotation. The Phillies (26-18) maintain a three-game lead over the Marlins in the bunched-up National League East. Only four games separate the Phils from the last-place Nats and Mets.

Notes: Before the game, it was revealed that Carlos Ruiz has been playing through a sore shoulder since late April, reportedly making it difficult to throw. ... It would be impossible for close Scott Mathieson to pitch any better than he has for Triple-A Lehigh Valley. According to Morning Call beat writer Jeff Schuler, Mathieson "made his eighth save look easy Tuesday night, getting the final three outs on just nine pitches. That's after throwing 28 pitches the night before in a two-inning save." The 26-year-old right-hander is 2-0 with a 0.76 ERA, 5 saves and a 26/6 K/BB ratio in 23 2-3 innings. ... Yesterday in Reading, right-hander Drew Naylor tossed a three-hit, complete-game shutout over Portland. He's 3-1 with a 2.64 ERA this month. Both Mathieson and Naylor are included on the Phillies' 40-man roster... Finally, Beerleaguer's senior correspondent scouted Lakewood this weekend and offered his take over e-mail on former first-rounder Anthony Hewitt: "Horrible, horrible."

Comments

[seattlephan]

@tax -- I was just about to write the same thing. Has Sam been gun-shy about sedning runners recently?

[Scott]

It's Missin' Season.

[Hope SE]

Those roars from the crowd, in the background of the radio feed, are killing me.

[Old Phan]

I couldn't tell why Sam didn't send Vic.

[philwynk]

** Grinds teeth **

I recall previous slumps by individual players. I recall bad games. I don't recall a 4-game-long slump by the entire team. This is really painful.

[GTown_Dave]

Watching the Phillies find new & exciting ways NOT to score is damn near fascinating. I feel like the first person to ever see an octopus.

[Old Phan]

I think you should force a great throw at the plate at this point vs. hoping for a hit with RISP

[Sophist]

Is Francoeur in RF? Utley hit that ball right on the nose and it didn't take it's time worm-burning out there. Francoeur still has a strong arm, doesn't he?

[Scott]

What's the number now? We've scored in one inning out of the last 36 or something?

[tax accountant]

yea seattle, if i was vic i'd be pissed at him. vic is our most effective runner rounding third and heading home. remember when he took out mccan? plus francoeur's throw was horrible.

sam has been atrocious during our recent slump.

[timr]

This team sucks right now.

[NEPP]

This is just brutally terrible to watch.

[GTown_Dave]

Old Phan: Usually I'd think it wouldn't be a good gamble to risk making the second out of the inning at home in a 2-run game when the alternative is 1st & 3rd, 1 Out, w/ Howard & Worth due up.

Right now, however ...

[Scott]

You just knew that was coming...

[Old Phan]

You have to send your fastest runner in that situation.

[Hope SE]

Can't somebody find the f'in book on Barajas?

[NEPP]

So yeah...game over.

[Sophist]

You just don't make the second out at home with the heart of the order coming up, esp. on a sharply hit GB right to a RF with a strong arm.

[Old Phan]

GTown, exactly. I only say that because of this particular situation. Any other time you hold him there if you aren't sure.

[dlhunter]

Howard. I...am so very disappointed.

[Sophist]

It doesn't get more ridiculous than this.

[dlhunter]

Btw, anyone else see that shot of Brian Schneider frantically wiping sweat from his eyes?

Does that guy have some kind of perspiration disorder? He looked like John Candy after running a mile up hill in sweats. With Chris Farley on his back.

[philwynk]

Did the Mets hire witches to curse the Phillies for this series??? This is supposed to be the best Phillies team ever, and they're playing like stumble-bums, night after night.

Hmmm... I recall saying a few weeks ago that Jimmy Rollins' influence was vital to this team. Rollins is no longer on the bench in the dugout. I wonder if I was more correct than I knew?

[holy mackerel]

they are flat out playing like s***

[Greg V.]

Done watching these guys play like losers. Movie time.

[GBrettfan]

I see the Mets are still hot and we are still, most definitely, NOT.

[Hope SE]

Mets are in the Phils head right now, like the Phils have been in theirs for most of the last 4 years.

[MG]

Tough night. I'm out

Win tomorrow night & things are fine. Don't want to see them go to Florida (a place they have had some mixed results the past few years) with some tough pitching matchups.

[GBrettfan]

So Chase has 7 errors already this season? Didn't Jimmy have only 6 all last season?

[GTown_Dave]

GBrettfan: That all depends. If by "hot" you mean "f*cking terrible", then the Phils are absolutely incinerating MLB.

[Gsl]

I am reminded of our conversation from last night Sophist.

Yes the Phillies have power and that makes them a strong offensive team. And yes a three run homer is a more efficient than a sac fly. But when you sit around and wait for a homerun and consistently fail to score in other ways you put yourself in situations to score once in 35 innings.

[Old Phan]

Wheels-"They kinda stink right now".
Well said.

It happens.

[Sophist]

Yes, the Mets are in the Phils head just like the Braves made a "statement" when they beat up Madson in the 9th. Only the Braves went on the lose 9 straight, and the Phils were lassitudinous before this series.

[GBrettfan]

So I guess the theory about hot weather = hitting season for the Phils, and esp. Ryan Howard with his HRs, is negated by tonight's performance.

Unless there's some complicated mathematical formula whereby producing runs is augmented by heat but decreased by lefty pitchers, breaking balls, and unfamiliar pitchers. Perhaps throw in the effect of a collective slump and subtract the presence of your sparkplug SS. Maybe that explains it. Any mathematicians out there?

[Sophist]

gsl - and I'll await proof that there's any truth to that. We've gone down that road before. The Phils are no more or less inconsistent than any other high-power offense.

[Mathematician]

Hittin' Season = Quittin' Season

[Gsl]

What about my statement do you need proof of? When you aren't scoring without a homerun you subject yourself to long droughts. We are watching the proof.

[Disgruntled Phan]

I am so upset with this team. Utley needs to go. We need to get some fresh faces. Werth is going to walk and Ibanez can't play. J-Roll can't stay healthy and Halladay is the only bright spot we have. Vic isn't his usual self and I think our catching situation is terrible. This team is horrible. Trade Utley now while we can still get something for him.

[Scott]

Sure.

0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+3+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0 = Futility

[holy mackerel]

MORE timely hitting by the Phils

[David]

Disgruntled Phan - take it easy. Breathe.

[Sophist]

gsl - proof that the Phils offense is less consistent than any other offense capable of scoring as much as the Phils. Proof that other teams don't have similar slumps. How do we even know they are going for HR? People were just talking about how howard is trying to hit too many singles. Is this a team built of Adam Dunns? Not really. The Phils are 2nd in the NL in BA.

[Old Phan]

Good one, Disgruntled!

[GBrettfan]

I knew that mathematics request would get some humorous responses! Thanks, guys, it's one thing I really enjoy about BL! (And I chuckled over GTown's "incinerating" comment, too.)

Disgruntled Phan, you are crazy if you think just b/c Utley is slumping now he should really be traded. Perhaps you were kidding, it's hard to tell sometimes.

[Sophist]

The Phils are also second to last in the NL in SO (in the sense that they have the second fewest SO).

We're watching a team struggle to score runs. It happens to everybody.

[curt]

We're watching things other than a slumping offense. For instance, have we figured out whether Heavy Joe has forgotten how to hold runners, or does Schneider lack a ML arm, or both? The Mets were barely pausing when they reached first.

[Scott]

Bless Ozzie Guillen.

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/05/26/ozzie-guillen-has-choice-words-for-umpire-joe-west/

[Gsl]

Sophist- And you are talking about Batting average again, and I never, in any of my recent posts complained about the Phillies batting average.

Nor did I try to say the Phillies are the only team to suffer a slump.

What I did say is that when you can't situationally hit you subject yourself to long droughts like this. Data or proof about any of that stuff you are talking about is irrelevant to my point.

[GTown_Dave]

curt: Schneider is no Rod Barajas ...

[dlhunter]

If Larry Bowa were, by some intervention from the gods, manager of the Phils today, he'd be sitting in the dugout with a car battery and jumper cables and a ball boy tied to a chair.

Every inning without a run...you can imagine.

[Sophist]

gsl - What makes you think the Phils can't situationally hit? BA is a data point showing that the Phils can hit for average (which is relevant in all situations). SO rate is a data point showing the Phils can make contact (which is something that gets runs in without hits).

The Phils aren't situationally hitting right now, but it's not because they lack the ability to hit in run-scoring situations. It's simply because they're slumping, which is something that happens over a long season.

[GBrettfan]

Will someone keep watch and wake the rest of us when the Phils start scoring again?

[Scott]

Gsl: I hear ya, but this is Beerleaguer. If you can't back up your feelings and theories with an infinite amount of arcane data, you're likely to be considered "wrong."

[Scott]

The Asian Invasion continues. Forget scoring.

[Sophist]

Scott - not wrong, unpersuasive. Ever heard of behavioral economics? Sports-viewing is fraught with danger. If we didn't have data to back it up, people would run around thinking Utley can't hit lefties and that the Phils never score when a mans on third.

[holy mackerel]

does ryan howard ever look at a video tape to see what he swings at?

same out of the strike zone breaking pitches

worth every penny of the 125

[clout]

Scott: There are "feelings" and "theories" and there are also facts. "Feelings" and "theories" that can't be supported by facts are, in fact, wrong.

[Scott]

Others may be more inclined to label another as "wrong," but you've not gone there, Sophist, and it is duly noted.

I will say that if people have televisions, the would be inclined to think the Phils never score in recent games. And they'd mostly be right.

[HammRadio]

Brutal

[clout]

Having said that, I am intrigued by G-town Dave's theory that the Phils are slumping because of ennui.

[Scott]

I just knew someone, probably clout, would jump in with the labeling goodness.

[holy mackerel]

if the phillies signed rod b right now, his average would drop about 135 point & his rbi production would drop proportionally

[Gsl]

"can't situationally hit" is meant to describe what has been going on currently/recently not as a way to describe the Phillies overall ability to hit a ground ball or fly ball. That is why I said "when you can't situationally hit" not "The Phillies have never been able to or never will be able to situationally hit." You are taking what I am saying and bending it a little. Either that or for some reason I am not stating it clearly enough to understand.

[Scott]

At least we don't have to worry about K-Rod's chest-thumping theatrics...

[clout]

Scott: Irregardless.

[holy mackerel]

this is clear

LATELY

their risp stinks

their ability to scratch out runs stinks

their ability to run bases and steal bags stink

their sp's stink

their patience at the plate stinks

their defense stinks

over all they stink

[Gsl]

Scott: There are "feelings" and "theories" and there are also facts. "Feelings" and "theories" that can't be supported by facts are, in fact, wrong.

So clout. If I have a feeling that gravity exists but I can't prove it, than obviously I am wrong and gravity does not exist?

[Scott]

Methinks it is time for Charlie to close the door and have a little talk with the team...

[Gsl]

The first part of my last post should have been in quotations because it is the insight that clout blessed us with.

[Scott]

Why is Gsl floating towards the ceiling?

[GBrettfan]

Well, that's the ball game. Try again tomorrow.

[Sophist]

Gsl - Can the theory of gravity be supported with facts? clout didn't say prove.

If you're just saying that teams that don't hit w RISP and don't hit HR won't score, when - they'll - that's just pretty obvious. But that doesn't really bother me. The Phils are a good hitting team - they can hit for average power. There's no magic to situational hitting, and eventually they'll hit there too. Note that the Phils haven't had back-to-back shutouts in 12 years. This is an unusual stretch.

[vegas]

seven game winning streak starts........................................now!

[Scott]

The Mets have just announced that Eri Yoshida will be the starting pitcher tomorrow night.

[holy mackerel]

Here's a thoughy-

Tim Wakefield came out of the Red Sox & the reliever gave up 3 runs

if Wakefield stays in the game, it would have been 4 straight shutouts

[kuvasz]

Credit the Mets and whoever scouted the Phillies for them. The Mets were a step ahead of the Phillies the past two games.

[holy mackerel]

CORRECTION

Here's a thought

Tim Wakefield came out of the Red Sox & the reliever gave up 3 runs

if Wakefield stays in the game, it would have been 4 straight shutouts

[Scott]

It isn't hard to stay ahead of a team that is not hungry.

[clout]

Gsl: You don't have to prove it. Others already have.

To the poster using my handle: "irregardless" is incorrect. Please brush up on your grammar. Or I'll have JW expose you, since he knows who you are.

[NEPP]

Sophist, I don't know what the hell you're saying but I love you, man.

[Gsl]

Sophist: Still not complaining about hitting with RISP. I am complaining about a lack of an ability to score guys from third, with or without a hit. There is a difference in those two things.

Its the "free" runs, the runs that can be scored without a hit, that the Phils are currently leaving on the table.

My point is that, even if you aren't hitting particularly well and even if you aren't hitting homeruns, you can still score if you can situationally hit. If you don't score the runs that you can get without a hit (man on second 0 outs; man on third <2 outs) you leave runs on the board and compound a slump.

[Gsl]

Clout: Gravity was just an example to point out your flawed logic that a feeling that isn't supported by data is automatically wrong.

[philwynk]

Well, the slump is obviously mental. I doubt that any of us are close enough to the team to know precisely what's eating everybody.

Personally, I note the absence of Jimmy Rollins, who's been an attitudinal spark plug for the Phillies for several years. I suppose four years of sitting atop the league may have gotten to the Phils' heads so that they need to learn how to be hungry again. But that's just speculation.

I think perhaps it's time for Charley Manuel to earn his big salary.

[GTown_Dave]

Zolecki (via Twitter): "Could be a while. Hearing that Charlie is having a meeting with the boys. Will keep y'all posted.

Matt Gelb (via Twitter): "Manuel is having a meeting with the team right now. Clubhouse still closed."

[Sophist]

The Phils have been unable to score in the sense you describe, but that doesn't mean they lack the ability to. Howard may be the one guy who does, since he usu struggles to make contact. Otherwise, this team doesn't really have that problem. They're simply in a bad stretch.

[clout]

clout: Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose.

Expose away.

[clout]

gsl: Apparently you misread what I wrote: "Feelings" and "theories" that can't be supported by facts are, in fact, wrong.

The word "automatic" does not appear. If a feeling cannot be supported by facts, it is by definition wrong.

[Gsl]

Yeah I agree that the Phillies have the ability to hit a fly ball or a ground ball past the pitcher. They just havn't done a ton of it lately in the spots where it was needed and its a main reason they havn't been scoring.

I got that data from watching the games.

[clout]

cowardly name-changer: I didn't say there was no such word. I said you misused it. JW doesn't much tolerate cowards like you so I suspect you'll be hearing from him.

[Sophist]

Gsl - not "isn't supported by facts" or "can't be proved." clout said "can't be supported by facts." There's a difference.

What is and isn't a word. Whatever. Saying "irregardless" makes you sound like an idiot who takes no care with language. "without without regard"? What does that mean? It's illogical.

[Gsl]

It depends on how the word "can't" is defined in your statement.

Maybe I can't provide facts to support my feeling because the facts show that my feeling is wrong. In this case you are correct.

However, maybe I can't provide facts to support my feeling because I don't know how or lack the resources. In this case my feeling is not by definition wrong. It could just as easily be right.

[Sophist]

Gsl - I think I just took your initial post as some argument about hitting philosophy when you were just making an observation.

[clout]

Gsl: By "can't" I meant that no facts exist that can prove the feeling or theory. Thus it is wrong. You also can have a "feeling" that is supported by facts. In that case your feeling is correct.

[GBrettfan]

Glad to hear Charlie is having a meeting with them! Imagine how frustrated the "hitting guru" coach is with the team right now, even for a man of patience who knows that slumps are part of the game: "That's baseball."

I agree Jimmy's presence makes a difference. But the big guns have also been quiet, and Shane seems to have cooled as well. And certainly, moving the runners over and in has not been happening. Even defense has suffered. Perhaps they're pressing. Who knows. Hopefully, Charlie's talk will help.

[johnnysanz3]

I challenge all to some old fashioned fisticuffs to resolve this matter.

[clout]

I like this team meeting. Sometimes a good chewing out focuses the mind.

[johnnysanz3]

On a serious note, no walks today, which is good pitching I guess, but between Utley, Werth and others, they all just suck this week haha.

[HammRadio]

if I was Charlie I wouldn't talk to them... I gather them all in the room... and say "If you guys don't care... then neither will I."

and see if they stand up...

[davthom73]

Another stinker behind the plate by Schneider. Ohfer-three, a .143 BA after the game, and four stolen bases given up. You can put a fork in this guy -- he's done.

And considering the potentially serious problem with Ruiz's throwing shoulder, the Phillies were lucky to get Paul Hoover through waivers this afternoon so that they could outright him -- with all the current catching injuries around the league, particularly in Washington and Milwaukee.

In his two weeks up from LV, Hoover played circles around Schneider's performance thus far -- hitting, throwing and working with the pitchers -- his only blemish being that freak play on Sunday where "Wickets the glove man" Dobbs -- speaking of guys who are done -- failed to move to his left to take Hoover's throw in the run-down between home and third.

Its good to be back.

[Sophist]

"illogical" may be unnecessarily harsh. so is "idiot" for that matter. the usual use of that word just gets under my skin.