Major League Baseball issued a warning Tuesday concerning accusations that Phillies bullpen coach Mick Billmeyer was stealing signs during Monday night's game against the Rockies, according to a FoxNews.com report. The Rockies are the second team accuse the Phillies of stealing signs this season. According to a FoxNews source, the Mets also accused the Phillies of stealing signs in their 10-run thrashing of Johan Santana. Beerleaguer: What’s the sign for walking Jamie Moyer with the bases loaded? FOXNews.com: MLB says Phillies have been warned [Link]
I can't fathom how you would relay this info to the batters silmutaneously. Can someone please explain it to me?
Why is it that because the Phillies are successful now they must be cheating to do so?
Posted by: doubleh | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:31 AM
A team stealing another team's signs? I don't believe that's ever happened before in MLB history.
Posted by: Matt | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:36 AM
Mick is texting to the batters.
Posted by: Colin_K | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:36 AM
Seriously? The Mets have been crying about this since 2007. Nothing has ever come of it.
There's no way that they could even make the batters aware of what pitch is coming during an at bat anyhow. If it is an issue of figuring out pitch selection they could just as easily be watching the broadcast and getting the catcher's signals that way.
So what is the issue here. Honestly? Outside of them getting the siganls and instantly relaying them back to the batter there is no issue.
The Rockies and the Mets need to move on and stop crying.
Posted by: Danny_Boy | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:42 AM
With all the hi tech devices , baseball is still old school and using binoculars and the bull pen phone to steal signs. Quaint.
Posted by: Bubba | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:42 AM
LOL. Is this a great game or what?
Posted by: curt | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:42 AM
Ooooooo...the Phillies have been warned. By MLB. I'm sure they are shaking in their boots. Every year a complaint like this seems to pop up.
I like Franceour's complaints yesterday about the Phils getting 3 extra home games with his "It's not fair," rant. Wonder if he threatened to hold his breath until they put the games back in Toronto?
Posted by: doubleh | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:44 AM
Yeah im trying to think how the bullpen coach could relay the info to the batter between when the sign comes down and the pitch is thrown.
Maybe they have some kind of signal he puts up for certain pitches? You think that'd be way too obvious to even attempt.
Posted by: thephaithful | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:44 AM
Next they'll say Jeff Gilooly(SP) is threatening Santana with a tire iron to make him throw Werth a cookie. The Mets have enough trouble figuring out how to handle the Nats. Idiots.
Posted by: Robby J | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:47 AM
Stealing signs should be accepted as part of the game ... do a better job at hiding your darn signs!
Posted by: Chris in VA | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:47 AM
Mick Billmeyer's day to shine. Enjoy it, buddy!
Posted by: Bedrosian's Beard | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:48 AM
Surefire ways to identify losers:
complaining about umping
complaining about strike zone
complaining about weather
complaining about ballparks
complaining about schedule
complaining about sign stealing
Posted by: curt | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:49 AM
Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]
Croupier: Your winnings, sir.
Captain Renault: Oh, thank you very much.
Since when is stealing signs forbidden in MLB? I'm shocked!
Posted by: Lake Fred | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:50 AM
curt: You've just described every tactic the Atlanta Braves employ.
Posted by: doubleh | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:51 AM
"Ooooooo...the Phillies have been warned. By MLB. I'm sure they are shaking in their boots. Every year a complaint like this seems to pop up."
While the complaints come up every year, how often does MLB get involved?
Posted by: bsullivan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:58 AM
bsullivan: I'm sure they do every time--we just don't always hear about it.
Posted by: doubleh | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 09:59 AM
Actually I got the Colorodo feed that night (I have the MLB cable package in NY) and they had the camera on Mick Billmeyer holding the binoculars and no doubt must have then alerted MLB. He put the camera away the minute he noticed the TV cameras were trained on him.
Maybe he was checking out the girls in the stands?
Posted by: RK | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:04 AM
From an article on ESPN, this is what you do about stealing signs, not whine to the league.
Gossage: "If we thought hitters were getting signs relayed signs from second base, we would call a breaking ball, and then I'd throw a fastball up and in. That stopped it right then. It was over. They were done."
Unwritten rules violations
Posted by: Pete Happy | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:04 AM
oops "he put the camera way" meant "he put the binocs away"
Posted by: RK | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:05 AM
I don't know how you get around this issue. Were I a third or first base coach, I'd be trying to give my batter a "heads up" to the pitch I thought was coming, even if that meant I caught a glimpse of the sign. Does this mean a guy in the bullpen couldn't participate? Yeah, I think that goes outside the lines.
Posted by: johnnyd | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:07 AM
Logistically it seems difficult but 'usually where there is smoke there is fire.' Phils seems like they are accused of this at least once/twice a season the past few years. Also, remember this being an issue at the Vet too.
It is probably just nearly impossible to definitely prove. Do I doubt the Phils were trying to steal signs though? Nah. Does it have that much of an impact on the game? Nah.
Posted by: MG | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:14 AM
One of the biggest alleged "scandals" was when pitches were relayed through a "window" in one of the old scoreboards during the World Series in the 50's -- maybe T. Thompson's HR?-- and nothing came of it. Curt was right--coulda shoulda woulda-- words of a LOSER
Posted by: Robby J | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:16 AM
It seems that MLB is punishing the Phillies for stealing signs by giving them 3 extra home games.
Posted by: Kutztown Fan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:17 AM
I'd be concerned if Mick wasn't trying to make himself useful. A Bullpen Coach is about as necessary as an elevator operator.
Posted by: curt | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:19 AM
It was "The Giants win the pennant!" game, Bobby Thompson's homer.
The Giants admitted it: http://espn.go.com/classic/s/2001/0201/1054936.html
Posted by: Noah | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM
Though, as noted in the article, Thompson denied taking the stolen signs.
Posted by: Noah | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:23 AM
I don't know what to make of this. After first read, I thought "so what?" But, it became much bigger. I really hope this turns out to be nothing. If, God forbid, they are stealing signs from the bullpen and somehow instantaneously transmitting them to the batter, it puts a dark cloud over what they have accomplished recently. Right, wrong or indifferent, it will do just that. All of the sudden the Phils' credibility as a "winner" will turn into them being "cheaters." Forget about the fact that they have an All-Star at almost every position, perhaps the best pitchers in baseball and the second-best ERA in the league. It'll all become about them cheating and not winning.
It's a shame if that were to happen. That's why I hope it's not true. Not because of the "integrity of the game," or the "fairness" aspect of it. Simply because the accomplishments of the Phillies in recent years will be tainted by something that most likely had little to no affect on the outcome of the games.
Posted by: R.Billingsly | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:28 AM
When will the rest of the league learn to give their signs in obscure languages like PSL (Panamanian Sign Language)?
Posted by: Deutsche Phan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:29 AM
What’s the sign for walking Jamie Moyer with the bases loaded?
Classic, JW.
Are there two bigger whiners in the league than the Mets and Braves?
Posted by: R.Billingsly | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:29 AM
I react to this the same way I reacted to the criticisms against Chase Utley for leaning into pitches to get a free walk to first. If you aren't trying, maybe you should be. And if you're upset, then there are ways of taking care of this on the baseball field.
Posted by: The Theory | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM
Phillies notoriety on this small issue is a sign from a couple of teams who want to be a leading contender without doing the work
Posted by: LH | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM
The 3 extra home games makes up for the interleague schedule that is tougher than most.
Posted by: BobbyD | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:33 AM
So, Ryan Howard swings and misses like that and he KNOWS the outside slider is coming?
Posted by: Pete Happy | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:33 AM
R. Billingsly: You're being overly dramatic. Name a team that doesn't attempt to steal signs. Billmeyer was probably trying to get a read on it, but probably was also looking at women in the stands. Mets complaints? Give me a break. It's one thing to steal a sign, it's another thing to get the sign to the batter in time/do something with it.
Posted by: Bedrosian's Beard | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:34 AM
Get a grip Billingsly. Mick will be out there waving binoculars around today (or maybe a telescope). I'd love all my opponents to believe that I have an unfair edge before the game begins. Like Yogi said, 90% of the game is mental.
Posted by: curt | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:35 AM
waaaah... the Phillies are stealing signs
waaaah at the Phillies getting extra home games
waaaah... Phillies fans are a bunch of louts
waaaah... the Braves announcers whining about CBP being a band box and that most balls hit in the air to LF or RF on a warm day are HR's
waaaah somebody better call the waaaambulance!
Posted by: Phils Fan in MD | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:43 AM
I'm still wondering how the Phillies stealing signs causes the Mets to lose to other teams.
Posted by: Kutztown Fan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:44 AM
Bed Beard/Curt:
I don't think you guys are understanding my point. I don't care about what Billmeyer was doing. I think it's a non-issue. I don't care what the Mets or Rockies think. I don't care that they were warned by MLB.
Name a team that doesn't attempt to steal signs.
I honestly can't. I'm sure that all of them do, but I haven't read an article in any source where MLB has given a warning. Have you? This story is not a "baseball story" it's become a "Phillies story" because they were singled out.
This is Philadelphia. I'm sure there are sports writers clicking away on their keyboards right now spinning this to make the Phillies "cheaters." While it shouldn't matter what the media says, public perception could potentially be changed. I don't know about you, but I liked the fact that the Phillies were finally getting respect as being a great team. If this incident is spun the wrong way, they will no longer be a great team -- they will be "cheaters." I'm sorry, but I'm not ok with that.
Posted by: R.Billingsly | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:44 AM
Looks like we're getting rained/snowed out again today. Tough to make up a doubleheader late in the year. Here's a nutty idea. Have Rox play Phils in afternoon tomorrow followed by their regular game against Nats at night. Leaves only one game to make up. THis kosher with the union?
Posted by: Clay Darymple | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:45 AM
I think Yogi said 90% of the game is half mental. This kerfuffle over Billmyer's binoculars is hilarious. How obvious can you be, Mick? I don't think sign stealing or, the use of binoculars, telescopes, cameras, etc. is covered in the rules but, maybe I'm wrong. Stealing signs is a given, but the use of telescopic equipment seems to be generally considered beyond the pale. I was surprised nobody got knocked down on Monday after the issue came to light.
Posted by: Hugh Mulcahy | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:46 AM
Billingsly, I'm with you. Most of the reactions here are pretty glib and I guarantee you that if this report came out about the Mets, BLers would be crying foul and ripping them to shreds. It doesn't make the team, any team, look good. Everyone finds it so easy to be sanctimonious when it comes to cheating except when it comes to their own team; then, it becomes easy to create knee-jerk smokescreens about how everyone else 'makes excuses' and 'whines'. Kind of gives you an idea of how SF fans stuck so hard behind Barry Bonds.
Posted by: RSB | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:47 AM
It's part of the game, and I don't really care either way. But I think it's funny how if this were the Mets or Braves accused of it, people on here would be livid.
Just because it's our team, you don't have to defend something like sign-stealing if you'd be against it by any other team. Frankly, I kind of feel like it's a stupid thing to try and be defending. It's a part of the game, but it's not like we should be actively saying "yay, steal signs!"
Let's just admit it's a questionable practice that no one really knows the truth about who does and doesn't do it, and move on.
Posted by: Jack | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:48 AM
So if the Rockies know every pitch that Doc throws, they're going to knock him out in the 1st inning? Stealing signs is as old as the game itself. I will admit that it's a little strange to have binoculars in the bullpen. Then again, if I was in the bullpen and didnt have binoculars, i would have no idea what was going on.
Posted by: Old Phan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:48 AM
Great to see 2112 on the rotation JW.. If MLB were so worried about cheating, Mark McLiar wouldn't be a hitting coach, and Barry Bonds would lead the league in asterisks.
Posted by: Robby J | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:48 AM
Wow. Wow. So people really imagine that with ballplayers changing team en masse after every season there are any sign stealing secrets left.
Let me know when MLB is taking Mick's testimony under oath and not (purportedly) issuing warnings.
Posted by: curt | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:56 AM
Billingsly: I know what you're saying, but I think you're being a bit over the top with it, that's all.
MLB looked at the video and ruled it "inconclusive", but warned the Phillies just in case. Likely doing so only b/c the Mets had complained prior.
Mets were likely miffed that Santana got rocked by the Philllies, even though one of the major reasons was b/c he walked Moyer(!!) with the bases loaded. Instead of manning up to the loss, they had to protect Santana by complaining that he was rocked b/c the Phillies had "cheated".
RSB: Typical.
Posted by: Bedrosian's Beard | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:57 AM
That explains the latest sponsorship...
"...and the Nikon Binoculars call to the bullpen has been made."
Maybe the Phils batting helmets shouldn't have Bluetooth devices (although I'm not sure if it's against the rules).
Posted by: JV | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:58 AM
Steve Carlton could have told the batter "I'm throwing you a curveball" and they still wouldnt hit it.
Posted by: Old Phan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:59 AM
Phillies bullpen coach Mick Billmeyer should say that he was watching the opposing pitcher to see if there were any changes in his motion to see if the pitcher is tiring. Yea, right!
Posted by: Lake Fred | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:00 AM
" I guarantee you that if this report came out about the Mets, BLers would be crying foul and ripping them to shreds."
I doubt it. There would be a certain faction of BLs who would, of course... but I don't think it would be the whole-out massacre you're implying it would be. I know I completely expect teams to steal Phillies signs. If that helps them, then I'd say the Phillies need better signs.
I do know if any Phillie was whining to the media about it I'd be mightily disappointed.
Posted by: The Theory | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:07 AM
Bed Beard: I apologize in advance if this comes off harsh -- it's not my intent. Based on your response, I don't think you understand what I'm getting at. I blame myself. After two post saying the same thing (or what I thought were saying the same thing), there was still confusion.
I'll let it go at that.
Posted by: R.Billingsly | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:09 AM
Santana said in an interview that he was tipping his pitches, not that the signs were being stolen.
Bud, doing a hell of a job.....at least you gave sports talk radio something to crow about in NY, Miami, ATL, and DC witht giving us 3 extra home games against a team that plays in a pitchers ballpark.
Posted by: Howleratthemoon | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:13 AM
I don't even know why "stealing signs" is considered cheating.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:16 AM
"I do know if any Phillie was whining to the media about it I'd be mightily disappointed."
Well, it depends what Phillie. If it were Hamels, he'd be ripped apart on here. If it were Halladay, it would just be him standing up for his team and the code of the game.
Posted by: Jack | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:17 AM
I agree with bap, seems like something you should try to do.
Posted by: ZT | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:17 AM
Jack, agreed.
Posted by: Old Phan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:18 AM
The only thing you can't do is steal signs with electronic devices. Otherwise, it's fair game or in the territory of unwritten rules. Last I checked, binocs weren't electronic devices.
All teams steal signs. And they should be. I found a story involving the Phils stealing signs in 1898 with a wiring system.
Posted by: Sophist | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:22 AM
Since I missed the short-lived Austin Hyatt thread, I thought I'd mention this. clout described him 2 threads ago as a soft-tosser. I haven't read any scouting reports but I did read last year that his fastball had really improved at Williamsport and was actually up to 94 MPH. If that's true, and if he's still getting that kind of velocity consistently, the soft-tosser description might not be so applicable anymore.
Before we get too excited about him, though, let's remember that Vance Worley and Mike Stutes both dominated at Single A also. It was low Single A, whereas Hyatt is pitching at high Single A. But the point is, like Hyatt, Stutes & Worley were older prospects, with 3 years of major college experience, who were dominating against kids. There's clearly nothing more to see from Hyatt at this level, so there's no reason he shouldn't be moved up to Reading.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:26 AM
Seems like this is one the teams can police themselves as per the post that references Goose Gossage.
If a batter glances around to see where the catcher sets up, he's pretty much set himself up to get buzzed.
Cross the line, and it usually gets enforced on the field. Part of the charm of baseball.
Posted by: Bob | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:27 AM
To be fair, the binocs are probably a bit much.
Posted by: Sophist | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:28 AM
And just seconds after I wrote that last post, I read on Phuture Phillies that Hyatt's fastball was between 88 and 91 last night. I know Hyatt has been moved around between the starting rotation & the bullpen. Maybe that 94 MPH figure came in a relief role.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:29 AM
Is the severity of stealing signs analogous to what Bellick did in New England?
I know there are still a lot of Eagles fans who were crying about that super bowl.
Seems like BS to me, if they were concerned why wouldn't they just go to the same signs they use when someone is on second? Not to mention that most of the damage against Santana came with men on base where the signs would've been "protected." I see Chooch using a multitude of signs, fingers, shoulders, knees, the works. If teams are dumb enough to not be able to come up with better signs, that's on them.
Posted by: PassingBy | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:32 AM
To Hyatt's credit, he's gone out and done what he's supposed to do, regardless of the unfortunate aging process. I'm excited to see what he can do in AA.
I look at Drew Carpenter as a soft tosser. I think Hyatt's a bit better than that, but he's no Strasburg (speed wise)
Posted by: Bedrosian's Beard | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:35 AM
Are the Phillies trying to steal signs? Probably.
Do other teams try? Probably.
Are the Coors Field bullpens so far away from home plate that it's almost impossible to watch a tight baseball game with the naked eye? Absolutely.
I've seen binoculars in bullpens before. Question really should be if he had a notepad or mobile device with him while he was "watching." In short, this is petty.
Posted by: Malcolm | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:36 AM
It's amazing how many Phillie prospects seem to disappear in the vicinity of Reading, PA, leaving us with AAA teams perpetually stocked with castoff lifers.
Posted by: curt | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:39 AM
Have to agree with the general sentiment here. Stealing signs is part of the game and any team that can't figure out ways to prevent it probably deserves the losses they take. And part of what I love about this Phillies teams is that there is virtually no whining and complaining. Back when it mattered, I might have missed Rolen's bat and glove or Schilling's arm, but I have never missed their mouths.
Posted by: GreysFan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:44 AM
Speaking of Reading prospects, Dom Brown hit another homer in the first inning today. That gives him 7 on the year already, 6 in the last 11 games.
Posted by: Jack | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:44 AM
Through their 10 games this month -- in which they've gone 8-2 -- the Phillies are hitting .297 (99-for-333) with 18 homers and 59 runs scored. They lead all NL teams this month in batting average, hits, home runs, extra-base hits and slugging percentage.
And Jeff Francoeur is thinking, "It's only because they're cheating."
Posted by: Old Phan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:46 AM
By the way, I can't find any source for this "warning" outside of Fox News. Is this also a case where we should consider the source?
Posted by: GreysFan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM
"And part of what I love about this Phillies teams is that there is virtually no whining and complaining."
Isn't it delightful? Just show up evey day and play hard.
Posted by: curt | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM
@Curt. Delightful indeed. You gotta love a professional who knows how to act like one.
Posted by: GreysFan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:50 AM
Wow. Just took a look at the Reading stat page for the first time. Brown really is a giant among a bunch of really small midgets.
Posted by: curt | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:54 AM
Well, in the Army, the motto is, if you aint cheatin', you aint tryin', and if you get caught cheatin' you aint tryin' hard enough.
The sign for walking the pitcher with the bases loaded is "we are a second place team in our division and our own city" two fingers down by the catcher I think.
Posted by: keith | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:54 AM
meh, stealing signs is part of the game.
just like emory balls, spitballs, extra pine tar, Joe Blanton's magic spot, "boning" wooden bats.
Heck, I've taught 10 year olds how to emory a ball and use it.
If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying hard enough.
and that's how its always been in baseball. as to relaying signs to the batter, you are taught ways to do it when you are a runner on second.
Posted by: joe | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:55 AM
Wish the Phils could have stolen the signs in the first game against the Mets and Niese. The Nats seemed to have the signs when he was pitching last night.
Posted by: EastFallowfield | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:57 AM
Nah, I think the sign for walking the pitcher is the catcher trying to sneak a pick at his watch 'cause he's getting tired of this thing and knows the whole team wants beat the traffic out of the stadium.
Posted by: GreysFan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:58 AM
bunch of cheaters...this explain santana's bad outing...losers..stealing signs? thats weak!!
Posted by: mestfan07 | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:59 AM
Pretty clever of the Phils to not steal signs when Barajas was on the team, knowing he'd end up on the Mets in 2010...
Posted by: EastFallowfield | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:06 PM
So Billemeyer gets the sign, calls Victorino in the dugout. Shane goes into the visitors clubhouse, hops into the Hot Tub Time Machine and goes back an inning, and hits a triple.
Posted by: EastFallowfield | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:17 PM
Zolecki: "Lidge sent back to Philly to see team doctor. Elbow stiffness."
That's a shocker.
Also, we all know from his time in Philly that Barajas sucks. Clearly, his recent success is the direct result of juicing. MLB should issue a warning! :-o
Posted by: GTown_Dave | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:18 PM
I get what you're saying, R.Billingsley, and I felt the same dismay about the perceptions of others.
But I think the best response is Pete Happy's Goose Gossage quote! That's the way to handle it.
(I also like Happy's later comment "You mean Ryan Howard swings and misses like that and he knows what's coming?" Hilarious!)
Sounds like the Phils need to be more subtle. I'm sure everyone who can is stealing signs across baseball. I'm pretty sure it's not even illegal.
Posted by: GBrettfan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:18 PM
metsfan-- not half as weak as the Mutt's line-up... c'mon, man up and admit the Nats are superior. Troll on! When does it become cheating? binoculars aren't. Hence, the lack of "proof". You can't prove things that aren't illegal. It's a conundrum.
Posted by: Robby J | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:19 PM
Oh good - a DH and our "closer" is off to see the Doctor and our set up man is on the DL.
Doc and Jamie both to pitch complete game shutouts seems a lot to ask.
Posted by: Bubba | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:21 PM
Stealing signs is absolutely part of the game. But when you're over the top with it, and draw complaints from various teams through a sequence of seasons, a team can acquire an unsavory reputation in the game. I read "The Echoing Green", a book which documents the taint involved in the Giants' 1951 comeback up to and including Bobby Thomson's famous home run, which was aided by the use of binocular sign-stealing. The '93 Phillies also come to mind, a team which I now can't think of without an awareness of the rampant steroid use among key members. I would prefer that these Phillies, a team of rare accomplishment in the franchise's history, not have any sort of similar taint associated with it, even though it's clear that the talent present is the real reason why they've been successful, even if the black marks arise from claims that we as partisan fans can cite as overblown and irrelevant. And if the Phillies are consistent with the obsession they project over how they are perceived by fans, by other organizations and players, and by the MLB offices, they'll put a stop to these tactics.
Posted by: RSB | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:22 PM
EF: "Guy's waxing his mustache at the beach. Gets sand in it. Wipes it off with his shoe. Shoe scuffs the counter."
I dunno; MLB might have something here ...
Posted by: GTown_Dave | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:23 PM
I personally much prefer this accusation to the "Raul Ibanez is on Steroids!!" version of last year.
Tony Gwynn used to say he would never want someone stealing signs for him when he was at bat, because it would just add to the many distractions that he had to deal with when he was trying to hit. He could have been lying of course, but honestly this makes sense to me. Whatever pitch is called, the pitcher still has to make his pitch in order for the information to matter. The main thing batters have to deal with is still seeing the ball and hitting the ball.
Posted by: zachsan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:23 PM
Anyone hear a weather update?
Posted by: Gsl | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:24 PM
Denver Weather:
Today: A chance of snow showers before noon, then a chance of rain and snow showers. Cloudy, with a high near 43. North wind around 9 mph. Chance of precipitation is 40%. Total daytime snow accumulation of less than a half inch possible.
Tonight: A chance of rain and snow showers before midnight, then a slight chance of snow showers. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 30. North wind between 6 and 9 mph becoming calm. Chance of precipitation is 40%. New snow accumulation of less than a half inch possible.
Posted by: Bubba | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:26 PM
I don't think it's the sign stealing that's the issue, I think it's the use of binoculars aiding the effort of the sign stealing which is the issue.
Sign stealing, part of the game. Employing cameras or binoculars, real time, as part of that effort...bad form, to say the least.
Posted by: wow | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:28 PM
Phils Home/Away record (NL rank)
2010: 10-6(t5) / 10-6(1)
2009: 45-36(6) / 48-33(1)
2008: 48-33(3) / 44-37(1)
2007: 47-34(t4)/ 42-39(2)
Phils are getting screwed out of 3 road games! Our players should be whining to the media instead of the idiot Mets.
Posted by: thephaithful | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:31 PM
Stealing signs is bush league. How the bullpen coach using binoculars is able to do that is beyond me though. That would be a pretty efficient relay system. How much time would they have for that, 3-4 seconds?
The real story here is JW's absolutely classic line, one of his best ever: "What’s the sign for walking Jamie Moyer with the bases loaded?" The perfect comeback.
Posted by: Brian G | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:31 PM
As By Saam used to say, "It's a beautiful day for baseball!"
Posted by: Old Phan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:33 PM
This is just another reason to despise and distrust fox "news".
Posted by: gobaystars | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:43 PM
thephaithful, send those stats to Francouer.
Posted by: Old Phan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:45 PM
Here's a take from a different media source: http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_blog/entry/view/65769/phillies_accused_of_stealing_signs._is_that_even_a_big_deal
Posted by: GreysFan | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:49 PM
Durn snow in Denver in May. I was in Denver one year on business on my birthday, May 15th and it snowed!
Maybe Selig ought to reschedule these lost games at the Rox home away from home, CPB! We can have back to back doubleheaders when the Rox come in town later this year.
Posted by: Lake Fred | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:50 PM
Thanks Bubba. Sounds like they at least have a chance to get them in.
Posted by: Gsl | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:53 PM
JW: Curious to know when Hyatt developed "a big fastball." He topped out at 88-90 last year according to what I've read. He's a slider, changeup guy and is about 2 years older than most prospects in his league.
Posted by: clout | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:56 PM
http://thebaseballcodes.com/2010/05/12/break-out-the-binocs—theres-thieving-to-be-done/
Posted by: Sophist | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 01:02 PM
Gsl- If they put the balls in the famous humidor they will come out icy. 43 for the high temp.
Beautiful day for baseball ,with mittens under your batting gloves & the Eric Bruntlett ear flaps down.
(Loved the By Saam memory- Old Phan.)
Posted by: Bubba | Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 01:04 PM