Cole steers Sox away from brooms in Boston

The Phillies were desperate for good pitching and found liberation in Cole Hamels, who continued his consistent campaign with a seven-inning, one-run effort in a 5-3 purification win at Fenway Park. (Getty)

With Hamels, it goes back to that insight Jayson Stark obtained in April from a rival scout, noting that Hamels would be a middle-of-the-road starter if he focused on the cutter and transformed into a four-pitch pitcher, but could be elite if he just zeroed in on his fastball/changeup and changed eye levels, the formula in which he found success in 2008. And ever since that was written, he's adhered to that advice.

The difference is that Hamels is skinning a fastball that yesterday was sitting 95-96 on the television gun. Hamels struck out eight over seven strong innings, his only mistake coming on an 0-2 hanging cutter to Adrian Beltre, who dunked it into the seats. One of Hamels' difficulties had been his ability to put away hitters, who were constantly fouling off pitches and running up his pitch count. This darting fastball should do a lot to help that, plus he's been terrific with his location; everything yesterday arrived down in the zone.

Really, his season has been dictated by the fastball, but pitching coach Rich Dubee might also point to better mound presence and keeping his cool. And it's true; Hamels has stayed away from the big innings that haunted him in 2009, holding opponents to three or fewer runs in his last eight starts.

Comments

[NEPP]

Hamels has looked as good as he EVER has in his career so far this year. Its really starting to come together for him this year. Remember, he's just 26 this year...not even really in his prime yet. He's still learning how to be a complete pitcher. Last year was a great learning experience for him. It showed him how to pitch without his best stuff. Now that he's fully healthy again (and not maxing out at 90 mph on his fastball), he's really starting to dominate teams.

Its really good to see.

[Scott]

Yesterday, Cole looked like Darth Vader in cleats. He hasn't looked like that in a while, but now that we've seen it, I'm hungry for more.

[Meyer]

And if the meat and tater gods are with us, Joe Blanton will be darting pitches low in the zone and the Phils will go on a summer run.

[J. Weitzel]

If only they can get it together offensively. Halladay-Hamels is the 1-2 they were hoping for.

[NEPP]

****Halladay-Hamels is the 1-2 they were hoping for.****

This...100% THIS.

Hamels is a very solid #2. I think he's doing a lot better now that the pressure is off him to be the Ace every time out. With Doc in the loop, Cole can focus just focus on pitching.

[Meyer]

And BL can and will start a low budget version of positive energy to a team that really kept it together during a due process low.

[Scott]

I know folks are focused on Blanton's health as a possible reason for his struggles, but I wonder if it is something as simple as his arm slot. He's at his best when he's throwing almost completely "downhill," and I'm not sure that he's been consistently doing that. Maybe that's not the case, but I'm hoping it is.

[optimuspun]

NEPP - Is the implication that it was pressure to be the ace that caused his decline in performance last year? That he wasn't focused enough?

He was an ace in 2008 with quite a bit of pressure on him at the time. At what point can we declare a moratorium on the psychoanalysis of Cole Hamels?

[optimuspun]

Scott - That's not a crazy idea at all. It was a mechanical correction that turned Blanton around last year after several poor starts.

That wouldn't necessarily mean that the abdominal injury didn't cause a change in mechanics, just that the injury isn't currently affecting such a change.

[NEPP]

****NEPP - Is the implication that it was pressure to be the ace that caused his decline in performance last year? That he wasn't focused enough?****

Not at all. I wasn't trying to do anything other than compliment him. However, I'll bet it does help him to not be the sole point of attention on the pitching staff...to not be the Mr. Opening Day guy. Even in 08, Myers pitched Opening Day, not Cole.

[jr]

Figgie--win # 2 5 in 0 runs
Ranson-- HR # 14

[optimuspun]

NEPP - That's fair. I know you're not the insecure Hamels-hater that some here are, though I'm still skeptical that the pressure of being an ace is a problem for Cole. On the contrary, I'd argue that he's thrived most when that pressure's been on him to be a number 1: I think he's a player that wants the ball in big situations as much as Doc, or Cliff Lee, or whoever.

[optimuspun]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the nod to Brett Myers in 2008 a goodwill gesture to Myers, who had been asked to return to being a starter against his wishes?

[NEPP]

****I think he's a player that wants the ball in big situations as much as Doc, or Cliff Lee, or whoever****

So do I. I think anyone who calls Hamels soft is an idiot. The guy pitched 260+ innings in 2008, carried us through the playoffs and was the best pitcher on earth for 6 straight weeks there. WHen he's on, he's pretty tough to hit. His major issue is one of pitches. If he's not feeling his changeup, he can get hurt. His lack of a legit 3rd pitch to use is what will likely prevent him from ever being a Lincecum/Halladay level of pitcher for a full year. I dont think he'll ever give us a full year of a an ERA around 2 but he is easily still a top pitcher.

Hamels is definitely not soft or a head case.

[optimuspun]

NEPP - Good good. I think we're on the same page (As to whether faith in Hamels legitimizes the Lee trade, well, I don't think many folks are with me on that one).

[NEPP]

****Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the nod to Brett Myers in 2008 a goodwill gesture to Myers, who had been asked to return to being a starter against his wishes?****

Yeah, pretty much. It was understood that Cole was the #1 from the start...even if the rotation wasn't set up that way for most of the season (not until Myers demotion basically).

[NEPP]

****NEPP - Good good. I think we're on the same page (As to whether faith in Hamels legitimizes the Lee trade, well, I don't think many folks are with me on that one).****

Some of us probably view the two as unrelated. Sure, if Hamels is back to form (like he has shown to be), we have a solid 1-2 punch. Other elite teams seem to have a very solid 1-2-3 punch that we could also have had. It would have given us a bigger margin for error in a playoff series and during the regular season as pitchers go down with injuries seemingly all the time.

[optimuspun]

Agreed.

As an aside, the conviviality generated by a solid win against a good team is a funny thing. BL has been an angry, miserable place to be lately.

[Scott]

Yeah, it kind of cracks me up when Cole's masculinity is questioned. If memory serves, he once famously broke his left hand in a bar fight. While that was unquestionably a remarkably stupid thing to do, it reeks of the same kind of testosterone overload that has often plagued Brett Myers, who people view as an "alpha male" type. No need to go into what Brett's stupidest moments were, as they are well documented, and even stupider than Cole's lapse in judgment.

[Scott]

optimuspun: I've recently envisioned shirts with the "Beerleaguer" logo on the front, and "Nobody's happy if anybody's happy" on the back...

[optimuspun]

Scott - True true. You know, some posters will throw cold water on even the hottest of hot streaks. But since mid-May the level of snideness has been something to behold.

[Bruce Ruffin]

Hey Iceman and Truth Injection: Drew Carpenter; 'member him? http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=502165. Plays for the Iron Pigs. Oh, right, you knew that. Double check before you allege "ridiculous".

All I was trying to say was this. If you have a 47 year old pitcher who gets torched every 3rd or 4th game, it may be in the best interests of winning ball games to let a warehoused minor leaguer with OK stats start a few times and put good old Jamie in the pen, especially after a beating like he took on Friday.

What could it hurt? As much good will as Jamie has earned, I question how his erratic performances – yes I know he still shows occasional brilliance – guarantees him a spot in this rotation. Heck, how is he guaranteed a roster spot?

optimuspun -- since mid-May the level of snideness has been something to behold. This ain’t Shakespeare or even the NY Times sports page. As long as the poster is not a flame artist, I believe any opinion is valid if it has substance.

[Conshy Matt]

i know it's frustrating for us fans to see st. uts hitting like st. bernard, but as a fantasy owner (i traded for him about a month ago -ugh!) when is it acceptable to bench him. hold the course ala charlie or feed him some fantasy pine? thoughts?

[NEPP]

****All I was trying to say was this. If you have a 47 year old pitcher who gets torched every 3rd or 4th game, it may be in the best interests of winning ball games to let a warehoused minor leaguer with OK stats start a few times and put good old Jamie in the pen, especially after a beating like he took on Friday.****

What the hell are you talking about? Moyer had a 3.28 ERA in his last 9 games prior to Friday's debacle. He got roughed up...it happens. Its not the end of the world.

****when is it acceptable to bench him. hold the course ala charlie or feed him some fantasy pine? thoughts?

Posted by: Conshy Matt | Monday, June 14, 2010 at 09:47 AM
****

I have Jayson Werth on my FBB team and I've benched him the past 2 weeks now...I have no compunction about benching Phillies players. It has made it easier to watch him scuffle knowing that I made the right decision and he's not killing me on multiple levels. If he busts out of the slump while on your bench, you can take solace in the fact that you helped him by benching him (the jinx theory).

It also depends on who you plan to start in his place.

[Cipper]

I think the trade for Cliff compounded things for Cole last year, finally realizing that he wasn't "the ACE" in the rotation anymore and i think it mentally hurt him, causeing him to press more and more to be "the ACE".

I think in the long run it has helped him, brought him back down to earth sort of speak. For the most part this year he's pitch damn well with a few exceptions or 'big innings'.

[NEPP]

****I think the trade for Cliff compounded things for Cole last year, finally realizing that he wasn't "the ACE" in the rotation anymore and i think it mentally hurt him, causeing him to press more and more to be "the ACE".****

I think having a dead arm from overuse the year before hurt him far more. His fastball was lifeless last year and his changeup wasn't nearly as effective either.

[Cipper]

NEPP: I dropped Kentucky Joe in my FBB league because he wasn't cuttin it last week. I picked up Moyer instead. He got his first start for me against Boston. Not exactly my best pick up ever.

[Cipper]

Yea, I definitely believe there were many factors to Hamels season last year (he was also expecting a kid all season to, and I'm sure that can be stressful)...

I think the best of Cole is still yet to come, and dont expect to see another season like last year any time soon.

[awh]

optimuspun, I think you now recognize what it's really like here on B*L.

Snide gives way to 'snider' when things aren't going well.
_____________________________________________________________________

This post by Bruce Ruffin on the last thread had me fall out of my chair laughing:

"The Red Sox/Yankees axis of evil do not put up with such largesse or ineptitude."

Bruce, I have a couple of words to answer that: Carl Pavano.

Also, they paid Kevin Brown almost 16MM/yr for 2 years of mediocrity.

The last 4 years of Bernie Williams contract, when he was paid almost $39MM:

.263 .346 .412 .758.

(Incidentally, that was a huge dropoff from the years just prior to that, and interestingly, right at the time they started testing for 'roids. Just sayin'.)
____________________________________________________________________

Lastly, Raul is 9 for his last 23 with 1 HR and 5 RBI. We should all hope he does that every 23 AB.

[NEPP]

****NEPP: I dropped Kentucky Joe in my FBB league because he wasn't cuttin it last week. I picked up Moyer instead. He got his first start for me against Boston. Not exactly my best pick up ever.****

I honestly try to avoid picking up Phillies that are doing well for that very reason. Generally, during interleague action, its a good rule of thumb to pickup AL guys that typically murder their NL opponents. At least with pitching. I'm kicking myself for leaving Lackey on the bench last week. (I went with Shields instead...not a good play unfortunately)

[awh]

" I believe any opinion is valid if it has substance."

Mr. Ruffin, respectfully, the "substance" you refer to starts with FACTS.

For instance, you could point to my post above correcting you regarding your comment about the Yankees that was not exactly factual.

[Conshy Matt]

NEPP - it's uts or jose lopez. not much of an upgrade.

it's hard to fathom chase sitting at .256. he hasn't homered since may 20th. he has just 2 doubles and 2 multi hit games since then. he's also attempted just 3 steals this year.

on a side note i'd like to say that yankee stadium would be a great place to break out of the teams hitting woes; however, with 2 lefties and 3 all star caliber pitchers on the mound it might not go down that way. here's hoping!

[Shawn]

Can't we take a step back and say this is a normal progression for a young pitcher?? I don't think Cliff Lee's trade midseason made any difference in the quality of Cole's pitching. Instead, he's actually just legitimately locating better and throwing with better velocity this year than last year. Is it so hard to agree that he learned a lot from last year's miscues and casualness and now has transitioned last year's bad experience to this year's hard training and good results?

[NEPP]

If its a week to week thing for your FBB, I'd stick with Chase over Lopez. If its Day-to-day (hate those leagues), I'd play matchups.

[EastFallowfield]

Yup, Moyer had 9 decent to great starts in a row then a bad one.

Probably every minor leaguer we have could do better than that.

[NEPP]

Interesting Splits for Chase:

Home: 1.072 OPS
Road: .660 OPS

vs. LHP: 1.114 OPS
vs. RHP: .723 OPS

Something to consider when making a decision to start him or not...

[bay_area_phan]

Carpenter's a poor man's Kyle Kendrick. I'm not even sure he's the next guy in the food chain after KK. If one of our starters were injured tomorrow, Nate Bump would probably be the guy to get the call.

[Phil Lee]

Im predicting an end to the slump tonight...It went Boston to Boston and now its over....anyone with me?

[J.R. King]

Tonight, I'm predicting an off day.

[Ihatehaters]

"Yup, Moyer had 9 decent to great starts in a row then a bad one.

Probably every minor leaguer we have could do better than that."

Maybe one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

[bullit]

i'm with you. it was from wakefield to wakefield.

[Conshy Matt]

NEPP - how is he only .723 ops vs. RHP? that's f'ing nuts.

some other crazy splits:

Werth - 0 HR's vs. LHP

-.935 OPS vs. RHP
-.804 OPS vs. LHP
-1.034 OPS at home
-.796 OPS away

[awh]

Cipper, when are posters on this site going to realize that 2009 was a textbook case of the Verducci Effect for Cole Hamels.

Let me remind you of what it is (from BP):

"Named for Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated, this is a negative forward indicator for pitcher workload. Verducci, who called this the 'Year After Effect,' found that pitchers under the age of 25 who have 30-inning increases year over year tend to underperform. Will Carroll independently found that pitchers who break the "Rule of 30" tend to get injured. Carroll renamed this 'rule' the Verducci Effect in honor of the man who initially found the evidence."

So, let's review:

Cole's IP including playoffs:

2006 (age 22): 132.1
2007 (age 23): 190.0
2008 (age 24): 262.1

For two seasons in a row, one could argue the Phillies were 'playing with fire' potentially putting Hamels' health at risk.

It seems in 2009 the 57 IP jump from '06 - '07 and the 72 IP jump from '07 - '08 finally caught up with Cole.

Cole certainly looked frustrated on the mound last season, as the lack of sustained success seemed to wear on him.

But in light of what I posted above, those who question his competitiveness and or manhood are on really, really thin ice.

I wonder if these same posters would have raised the same questions about the many others who have fallen victim to being overused by their clubs?

[J.R. King]

I like having guys like Drew Carpenter and Nate Bump to start in place of injury or ineffectiveness. But Jamie Moyer has not been ineffective.

[NEPP]

****Werth - 0 HR's vs. LHP****

That is just bizarre. He suddenly forgot how to hit for power vs. LHP. He's slugging just .388 against them this year. Just a bizarre split for a guy that has killed them historically. I wonder if LHP have found a hole in his swing?

[awh]

NEPP, I would call those splits for Chase more than "interesting".

"Surprising" to "shocking" comes to mind.

[Jbird]

A few pitchers got cutter happy this year. Chad Billingsly's improved a lot since he stopped throwing it so much. It also seems like when Cole does get hit hard it's when he tries to mix that cutter in. I guess being a 2 pitch pitcher works for Cole. It's better than being a 1 pitch pitcher, I guess.

[awh]

It's interesting how one bad start by Moyer causes people here to call for his removal from the rotation.

Why didn't those same posters call for Halladay's removal after that debacle against Boston on May 23rd: 5.2 IP. 7 R, 6 ER?

Gee, without that start Roy would have an ERA of 1.51.

[awh]

haters, I believe EF was being "sarcastic".

If you're not familiar with the word, look it up here:

http://dictionary.reference.com/

[Cipper]

AWH: I can't disagree with that argument either... I was looking around some other players, it looks like Verlander went through the same situation '08. Mark Prior as well, he fits the injury part. And though I didn't look him up, I'm sure it probably matches Chris Young too..

But I also looked up Peavy, didn't seem to match him.
Neither did it seem to screw up Maddux.

I'm not disagreeing with the dead arm theory, but I would think that there are ways around it.

[awh]

Cipper, Verducci and Carroll have said the "Effect" is not universal, just that the increased workload increases the probability of the "Effect" occuring.

Cole seems to have fallen into the group for whom the "Effect" was a reality.

AAMOF, Verducci posted a list of pitchers prior to the 2008 season who he said were at risk. I'm sure you're not surprised that Hamels was on it.

Also, I was looking at some other pitchers and it seems that sometimes the "Effect" is delayed. Some guys had significant dropoffs in their age 26 or 27 seasons.

Was that due to the increased workload when young, overuse in general, or just an "off year"?

Speculate away.

[The Truth Injection]

Bruce Ruffin: You're crazy.

Cole Hamels was unfairly slagged by people for scuffling last year even though there were plenty of indications that he was suffering from being used heavily the prior year. It happens to tons of young pitchers and it happened to him.

This year though you are seeing a guy who has improved maturity wise on the mound. He has had many opportunities to go off the handle and ruin some fine starts- he has largely resisted doing that.

He is showing more confidence in his pitches and is mixing stuff together a little more. I know MG has called the curveball junk in the past but when he uses it like he did yesterday it is a huge weapon. Not that he causes damage with it but rather because it makes the hitter think about something else.

[Old Phan]

People can't get their head around the fact of how effective Jamie has been this year, and when they are so desperate to see him fail, his good performances are just anomalies. The bad ones are the true indicators of how he is really pitching.
In the meantime, I am much more comfortable with Young Jamie on the mound than the Innings Eater.

[Bruce Ruffin]

awh -- Roy Halladay is the franchise. However, when a 47 year old pitcher (with guaranteed money that he keeps regardless of whether he stays or goes) knows that "one bad inning" or "one bad game" has no consequence on retaining his spot in the rotation, that's the very definition of complacency.

What do you think happened to the team's morale in Boston on Friday after the second inning? Here we go again? No team should ever be expected to come back regularly from 9 run or 5 run or pick a crooked number run deficits. It's my guess these "blow ups" will occur with greater frequency as the season wears on. If you throw 82 mph, the book on you can't be that thick, and this is his 3rd year in the NL. The real killer is that his out pitches are at the pleasure of wherever the ump's strike zone is. If he's not given the corners -- and generous ones at that -- he's cooked.

Jamie has his money. If he's that good, let's let him go, and see if he catches on with another team.

[NEPP]

****If you throw 82 mph, the book on you can't be that thick, and this is his 3rd year in the NL. ****

Yeah, I mean, he's only been throwing at that velocity since probably 1995....the wheels are gonna come off sooner or later, right?

[Bruce Ruffin]

TTI -- Cole Hamels is so key right now and pitched like a flat out stud yesterday (I loved the debunking of "Cole's a sissy" with "Cole busted his hand in a bar fight.” Man, that had to hurt!). I'm not referring Mr. Hamels. I am speaking of Jamie Moyer.

[The Truth Injection]

I find it ironic that the guy whose handle is a pitcher that was 24 games under .500 as a Phillies is bashing Jamie Moyer.

Moyer had a bad game. It happens. But the actions you are calling for Ruffin are stupid. The guy is completely serviceable yet and Drew Carpenter would be a significant downgrade from Moyer.

[The Truth Injection]

Bruce: I know who you're talking about. Only the "you're crazy" part was directed at you in the first post. That more recent post though was all for you.

[J.R. King]

I'm one of those people who has a bias against Jamie Moyer. As a fan, I would rather see a young player with upside rather than an older player where "what you see is what you get." I wanted KK to win the job in spring training. I wanted Jayson Werth to start over Geoff Jenkins, Greg Dobbs to start over Pedro Feliz. I even wanted Drew Carpenter to get called up instead of signing Petro Martinez.

But the fact of the matter is Jamie Moyer can still help this team win games and he's a better option than Nate Bump or Drew Carpenter.

[Old Phan]

I just can't fathom how anyone who has actually watched him play can call him complacent.
And talking about the morale of the offense right now? How many good performances have been wasted in the last few weeks by the offense?

[awh]

Cipper, Verlander's teammates Bonderman and Willis seem to have suffered as well, and Rick Porcello sure isn't off to a robust start after seeing a 45 IP increase from his age 19 to 20 seasons.

And that's just one team.

[Bruce Ruffin]

TTI -- What's your opinion on the team's collapse? Complacency can't be an issue? Having to come back from multi-run deficits engineered by a junk-baller isn't demoralizing? Hard to believe that.

[Jack]

I'm far from the biggest Jamie Moyer fan on this board. Frankly, I thought he was cooked last year, after his surprisingly good 2008, and I thought having him in the rotation this year would be a disaster.

So far, though, he's been a pleasant surprise, and I think he clearly now qualifies as a unique player in baseball history. It's pretty cool to watch. He's going to get lit up a few times because that's just the nature of his stuff (and pitching against the Sox in Fenway doesn't help), but overall, he's been just fine. The idea of replacing him right now with Drew Carpenter is laughable.

Happ comes back and most likely replaces Kendrick, and Moyer sticks, unless they decide to add Pedro or someone else at the deadline. Of course, if Blanton continues to be horrendous, they might have to arrange for a minor-league stint or DL trip for him.

[Old Phan]

"Having to come back from multi-run deficits engineered by a junk-baller isn't demoralizing?"
How many good performances have been wasted in the last few weeks by the offense?

[awh]

"If he's not given the corners -- and generous ones at that -- he's cooked."

Boy, I wonder how many successful pitchers in the history of MLB that comment might describe?

Stupid comment. Vaccuously stupid comment.

[The Truth Injection]

Ruffin: So your expert analysis is that the Phillies are 6-13 since May 22nd because of Jamie Moyer's crappy pitching?

Moyer lost one of his starts in this time frame 1-0 to the Marlins. Was it his crappy pitching that day that demoralized the team?

More importantly, do you actually think about things you want to say before you say them?

[R.Billingsly]

Ruffin: What do you think happened to the team's morale in Boston on Friday after the second inning? Here we go again? No team should ever be expected to come back regularly from 9 run or 5 run or pick a crooked number run deficits.

Conversely, no pitcher should have to regularly throw a shutout to ensure that his team will score enough runs to win the ballgame.

[EastFallowfield]

Non sarcastic post now:

The idea that Moyer is complacent seems to have no basis in the real world.

[Bruce Ruffin]

awh -- You "...wonder how many successful pitchers in the history of MLB that comment might describe?". Exactly zero pitchers with plus fastballs or hard sliders that they throw for strikes and can challenge hitters within the zone. BTW, you spelled “vacuously” wrong.

[NEPP]

Conlin just joked about offering Seattle back Aumont, Ramirez and Gillies for Lee.

On the Moyer note: Having a hard fastball has made Kyle Farnsworth a perennial All-Star.

[awh]

"How many good performances have been wasted in the last few weeks by the offense?"

Old Phan, you are correct. Pitching has not been the problem.

In the 12 games prior to the Boston series this last weekend, Phillies' pitchers gave up 44 runs, an average of 3.63 R/G - .7 R/G BELOW league average.

That's total runs not just ER.

The Phillies record in those 12 games was 5 - 12.

The Phillies scored 36 runs in those 12 games, or 3 R/G.

Any questions?

[awh]

Ruffin, thanks for the correction on "vacuously". Damn fingers.

I ask you, was Tom Glavin successful when he didn't get the strike 6 inches off the plate? I never saw him pitch a good game when he didn't?

He's one example I can think of off the top of my head who you may have seen. Randy Jones is another who may have been before your time. (I don't know your age.)

There are many others.

I stand by my post:

I was a "vacuously" stupid comment.

[NEPP]

Thoughts from the Conlan chat:

1. Worries Happ might have symptoms of TJ Surgery.

2. Thinks Galvis could be the next Juan Castro

3. Thinks Jimmy might need to play through pain better.

4. Thinks Utley's slump is related to having the flu last month.

[NEPP]

That should say Conlin...not Conlan...stupid typo on my part. Though I'm sure everyone already knew that.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Sounds like Conlin came up with the same thoughts/concerns any Phillies fan would have, except he gets paid for that crap.

[awh]

Oops, that should say "5 -7". Too distracted.

Oh, and the Phils scored a grand total of 9 runs in the Boston series - 3 RPG.

They scored 3 RPG over a 15 game period.

6 - 9 record.

Yep, it's the pitching - especially Jamie Moyer.

[NEPP]

Good I guess: The way the schedule is now set up, Halladay WILL NOT pitch at the AS Game regardless of whether or not he is named to the team. He is now scheduled to start on the final game prior to the break and will thus be ineligible to participate.

[johnnysanz3]

I'm not sure if he gets paid still or not BB, he says he is retired doesn't he?

[NEPP]

****Yep, it's the pitching - especially Jamie Moyer****

Well, if the pitchers would step it up at the plate, maybe they'd win some more games. More Batting Practice for the Rotation!!!

[optimuspun]

awh - Just about everything our friend Bruce writes seems intended to get a rise out of BL posters, and I'd be surprised if that weren't all he's up to. What's the alternative? That there's a rational person out there who believes Cole Hamels is a sissy, that Jaime Moyer should be released, that Charlie Manuel should be fired, that the organization is cheap AND that they overspend?

[Cipper]

Awesome that Halladay is scheduled to pitch that game, i bought tickets to that game a month ago, 4 rows behind phillies batter circle. Now I'm Psyched.

[EastFallowfield]

Moyer's outings during the swoon, before Boston:

7 IP, 2 ER
5 IP, 4 ER
6 IP, 1 ER
9 IP, 2 ER

[Old Phan]

"Moyer's outings during the swoon, before Boston:
7 IP, 2 ER
5 IP, 4 ER
6 IP, 1 ER
9 IP, 2 ER

If those aren't the numbers of a guy that's cooked, I don't know what is. Combined with the fact that he is obviously a clubhouse cancer...

[MG]

Why all of the complaining about the pitching staff? Frankly, the only issue right now is what they do with Blanton if he continues to stink it up his next 2 starts and Happ comes back at the end of the month.

If Blanton had an ERA around 5 but had decent stuff & was getting deep into games, it wouldn't be an issue. Just not the case though.

Blanton has gotten stacked around his last few starts, hasn't had consistent location on any of his pitches all year, and is hitting a wall the 3rd time through the order/about 90 pitches.

I would give him another 2-3 starts but if he doesn't show improvement you have to consider doing something especially if Happ comes back. If Happ doesn't come back, then you are largely stuck with Blanton. Just hope he comes around.

[NEPP]

CUT HIM!

****That there's a rational person out there who believes Cole Hamels is a sissy, that Jaime Moyer should be released, that Charlie Manuel should be fired, that the organization is cheap AND that they overspend?****

Maybe he just listens to WIP alot?

[Old Phan]

I am concerned about Blanton, but I'm hoping it's just a bad start and he'll turn it around.

[awh]

"If those aren't the numbers of a guy that's cooked, I don't know what is. Combined with the fact that he is obviously a clubhouse cancer..."

Old Phan, you're right. That 2.89 ERA during that stretch definitely convinces me that Moyer is cooked.

Now, the "clubhouse cancer" thing is new to me.

Do you think it started with the other players getting jealous because Jamie's son got drafted?

[NEPP]

I was surprised that the Phillies didn't draft his kid...it would have been cool to see but oh well.

I wonder what the FO's plans are for Jamie next year. I wonder if Moyer will want to pitch another season or will he be ready to hang them up at Age 48 (as of this upcoming Nov)

If he does hang them up, do the Phillies try to get him as a coach or do they let him walk?

[J.R. King]

awh: I think Old Phan was being sarcastic

[JJG]

I have a sneaking suspicion that MVPTommy's favorite all time Philly was Bruce Ruffin.

[Heather]

Optimus: "What's the alternative? That there's a rational person out there who believes Cole Hamels is a sissy, that Jaime Moyer should be released, that Charlie Manuel should be fired, that the organization is cheap AND that they overspend?"

I don't know and don't care whether Hamels is a sissy, don't think Moyer should be released. I could make the argument that Charlie Manuel is not an elite manager and should be released if it was possible for the team to get an elite manager. I also think the organization is cheap when it comes to squeezing Lee's $9 mil into the budget but stupidly overspends when it hands out extra years to aging players like candy (see: Ibanez, Raul).

So while many of Bruce's assertions are obviously designed to get a rise out of people, I don't think that there isn't a kernel of truth in some of them.

[J.R. King]

I think Joe Blanton will eventually work things out and (like we've seen before) rip off a string of good starts. But it's a question of when. I doubt he would agree to this, but do the rules allow him to be sent down for another series of rehab starts?

[Go Mets!]

Idiots the reason Blanton is sucking is because he actually sucks. Look at his shitty peripherals.

[Old Phan]

JR, yes, I was. Very.

[Old Phan]

Ahh, welcome back, Go Mets.

[NEPP]

****. I doubt he would agree to this, but do the rules allow him to be sent down for another series of rehab starts?****

It depends if he has options left. If he doesn't, they cant send him down without exposing him to waivers. If he does, then he would have to agree to it.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any options remaining...but I dont know for sure.

[Go Mets!]

Hey guys.

[J.R. King]

I think most regular readers would be able to tell very quickly if MVPTommy came back as another poser. His lack of intelligence and condescending tone were unique and unmistakeable, like a dumber version of clout.

[Go Mets!]

Seriously, what is the deal with Happ? Is he coming back or not? As a Mets fan I am curious because I don't want him to help the Phillies....

[Go Mets!]

This year Blanton's K/9 rate and his GB% is lower than its been in recent years. Its a concern.