Game chat: Phillies go back to work in Windy City

Jamie Moyer (9-8, 4.51) and the Phillies try to match their longest winning streak of the season tonight when they start a four-game set with the Ryan Dempster (7-7, 3.81) and the Cubs. First pitch is 8:05 EDT. The Phillies will welcome Chad Durbin back into the fray.

Beerleaguer: With permission to mail-it in at the break, Beerleaguer is fully recharged and ready for some fast and furious blogging. We're talking non-waiver trade deadline, waiver trade deadline, the division race, wild card race, all with the hope that the Phillies become the last team standing in November. It all starts tonight for the 47-40 Phillies, who arrived at the break looking up at the Braves and looking around the clubhouse at some unfamiliar bodies. Injuries defined much of the first half, with Chase Utley expected to be gone until Septmeber. Nevertheless, the Phils saved their best series of the season for the end of the first act: a classic four-game sweep of the Central-leading Reds. They're looking to extend their streak to five tonight. The Phils have won eight of their last 10 over the Cubbies, who enter the second half a disappointing 39-50.

Transactions: Reliever Chad Durbin has been reinstated from the 15-day disabled list. To make room, right-hander Nelson Figueroa was designated for assignment for the second time this season. The Phils made an additional move, activating left-hander Antonio Bastardo form the disabled list and optioning him to Triple-A Lehigh Valley.

Pitching matchups: Just a reminder that schedule-wise, this isn't your typical series. Tomorrow at 2:20 ET: Joe Blanton (3-5, 6.41) vs Ted Lilly (3-8, 4.08); Saturday at 1:05 ET: Cole Hamels (7-7, 3.78) vs Randy Wells (4-7, 4.61); Sunday, July 18 at 8:05 ET; Roy Halladay (10-7, 2.19) vs Tom Gorzelanny (4-5, 3.16).

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Comments

[Jack]

DH Phils: I happen to not think Herndon is all that promising, and I think Figueroa is a useful longman for the team. For the next two months, I think Figueroa is the better pitcher, and I think that's what the team should be focused on.

Frankly, they could just offer some cash or a minor prospect to the Angels for Herndon and then have him for real and just send him down to AAA, where he belongs. You're right that he does have some promise for the future, but the Phils are in a pennant race right now. That's the priority. If they're not willing to make a deal to keep him longterm, then don't bother.

[bay_area_phan]

I sure hope this is just a bad game & not a harbinger of what's to come in the 2nd half. Cholly needs to get him out.

[gobaystars!]

I am still massively optimistic about the 2nd half, but I think that's enough Moyer for tonight.

[Old Phan]

9 innings....9 innings...9 innings.....

[aksmith]

I guess it is superfluous to say Moyer's stuff sucks. But tonight, his location couldn't be worse.

He's picking up right where he left off before the break. Feels very much like a loss.

[Jack]

Oh, and this is why people are uncomfortable with Moyer as a playoff starter. He's been very good in a bunch of starts this year, but when he's bad, he's really bad.

[Sophist]

NEPP - I don't think Vic's on base skills are down because of an attempt to hit for power. They're down because he's not hitting any LD. I think his power would be up this year anyway, considering his age.

[gobaystars!]

Get Figgy up!
What? He's where?
D'oh!

[NEPP]

Sophist, I dont think that either. I'd just rather have last year's version of him as our lineup seriously needs another high-average, good OBP guy.

[NEPP]

Does UC even have anyone up? Seriously get him out of there.

[Gary]

Now can I say that his pitching has been awful tonight?

[jr]

Prediction: Jamie will not win more than 4 games the 2nd half. Hope I'm wrong.

[Mick 0]

"Remember the backlash when the Phillies weren't more serious in trying to sign Soriano? Ah, those were good times..."

-Willard Preacher

Doh!

[bay_area_phan]

After run No. 5, every additional run that the Cubs score is directly attributable to Cholly.

[NEPP]

Yeah, its fair to say he's having one of his rough nights. He's had a couple rough outings this season.

[Hope SE]

LA notes Figgy DFA'd and only long man they had in the bullpen.

[Will Schweitzer]

Hey...you know what would be good for a Moyer rough outing like this? Pull him before it gets too out of hand. After all, we have Figueroa who can go 5 innings so we don't have to use the entire bullpen and can still realistically compete.

Oh...

Nevermind.

[NEPP]

Had the majority of the fanbase been able to pick our FA moves, we'd have Soriano in LF and Derek Lowe on the mound.

[The Truth Injection]

The key is always location with Moyer and to some degree getting the calls.

The location is just not there tonight. Either Herndon or Durbin is going to have to be a hero tonight.

[NEPP]

Can we all shut up about Figueroa now? Yeah, we get it, we don't have a long-man right now. Nothing will change that.

[The Truth Injection]

i think we're up to 6 people now who have made the exact same Figueroa comment and tried to pass it off as clever.

[gobaystars!]

It is easy to see when Moyer doesn't have it. He needs to be yanked early on those nights.
Regardless, it's early and this is Wrigley. Yes We Can!

[Old Phan]

Werth couldn't have asked for a better pitch.

[NEPP]

****i think we're up to 6 people now who have made the exact same Figueroa comment and tried to pass it off as clever.****

At least mine was original...

[bay_area_phan]

All this nostalgia for the Nelson Figueroa era is a bit peculiar. He did a nice job after being called up, but he's a fringe major leaguer and nothing more. When he throws strikes, he's probably a better option than Herndon. But, very often, he doesn't throw strikes. Our 2010 fortunes certainly won't rise or fall based on whether we have Herndon or Figueroa as the 7th man in our bullpen.

[Heather]

"It is easy to see when Moyer doesn't have it. He needs to be yanked early on those nights. "

It's frustrating when even the most casual fan can see if Moyer doesn't have it and yet Cholly and Dubee are like, "Call the bullpen? Nah...."

[aksmith]

I think it's safe to say that when Jayson Werth moves on after the season, I will not cry.

And I expect he'll have success wherever he goes. But I keep getting Burrell flashbacks when he looks at strike three.

[Will Schweitzer]

"Can we all shut up about Figueroa now?"

No, but thanks for asking.

The move was made less than 24 hours ago. It's hardly "old news" and it will cost victories, as will the retention of Brad Lidge as the closer.

If you care to add to the discussion, feel free. If not, ignore it.

[NEPP]

***
No, but thanks for asking.***

What's the point of whining about it all game? If Nelson Figueroa is the reason the team is losing, then we've got some serious problems as a franchise.

On another note: Happ's line was less than impressive tonight (again)

5 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 4 BB (concerning again), 7 K, 1 HR, 5.59 ERA so far at Lehigh.

I wonder how his velocity/location was.

[Old Phan]

See Ya Figueroa
We hate to see you goa
Do they have a long man?
The answer now is noa.

[DH Phils]

Will Schweitzer: The move will cost victories? Really? If he gets lots of luck with balls in play and fly balls, he's a decent long reliever. If he doesn't, he's a high-4's ERA guy.

[denny b.]

Happ recovered a bit and finished up strong at Louisville.

5 IP, 4 hits, 3 ER, 4 BB's and 7 K's.

100 pitches.

Kind of the same ole' story for Jay in his minor league starts. Has one bad inning. Throws too many balls and gets behind hitters. But is still getting swings and misses and strikeouts.

Its a mystery at this point.

[bay_area_phan]

Having an ever-so-slightly worse 7th reliever will cost us victories? I find that unlikely.

[NEPP]

We're not losing tonight because of Figueroa...we're losing because Moyer didn't have it early and he wasn't pulled. Honestly doubt UC would have pulled Moyer even if Figgy was here and available. He's never pulled him all that fast before.

[gobaystars!]

It was the right move to dump Figgs. It just is funny how it timed out with Moyer's rough start. I would have kept him around for an extra day because I can predict the future.

[denny b.]

We still have no offense, BTW.

Going to be hard to keep our heads above water, expecting to win every game 3-2.

[DH Phils]

Old Phan: Impressive, but I would've liked to see you work fellow back-of-the-rotation early 2000s Phillie Joe Roa into the poem.

[Heather]

"Honestly doubt UC would have pulled Moyer even if Figgy was here and available. He's never pulled him all that fast before"

To the best of my recollection, Moyer has never had a shaky 2 innings and then turned it all around.

WHY WHY WHY does our fearless manager do the same thing over and over and over again and magically expect different results THIS time.

[The Truth Injection]

The loss of Figueroa will cost victories?

Ridiculous. I can only hope that was said with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

Herndon is going to be a valuable guy and can go multiple innings. Durbin can as well. They can also be used in spots to get outs. Figgy can not do the latter.

[NEPP]

Define Irony: David Herndon throwing a perfect inning after being ripped several times for being kept over Figueroa.

[bay_area_phan]

NEPP: Figueroa would have done it in fewer pitches.

[Heather]

"Define Irony"

Kind of like gold-y and silver-y, except iron.

[NEPP]

Dom Brown's having another great night in Lehigh: 3 for 4, 1 2B, 1 R, 1 RBI

23 for 59 (.390) in Lehigh now. Seems like he's intent on forcing the issue for Rube.

[Will Schweitzer]

"What's the point of whining about it all game?"

What's the point of 99.999% of the discussions that take place on BL during a game? It's an expression of an opinion that is relevant to the situation. I apologize that several others made a similar post at around the same time, but that only strengthens the argument that it's a legitimate point of discussion, doesn't it?

"The move will cost victories? Really? If he gets lots of luck with balls in play and fly balls, he's a decent long reliever. If he doesn't, he's a high-4's ERA guy."

Well, Amaro spent all of his money the second he got it in his hand. Otherwise, we could've resigned Park for 1.5 mil and we would've had a long man in the pen for situations such as these.

We ended up with Figgy instead, and he demonstrated that he was up to the task. Even if he doesn't have "lots of luck", as you say, he's no worse an option than most of the arms in our pen and has the added benefit of being capable of a spot start and going multiple innings.

Seems foolhardy to keep plugging away with a closer that doesn't get the job done but DFA a middle reliever who does, particularly when there are three others in red pinstripes who would likely perform at least as well as Lidge in the role of closer.

[NEPP]

Kendrick warming up? Guess that makes sense somehow...is this his side day?

[MG]

BAP - Agreed to a point. Figueroa/Herndon have both largely been used the same. As mop-up guys. Herndon has appeared in 27 G coming into tonight and 18 of those appearances have come when the Phils have been up or down at least 4 runs. Figueroa has been used in 13 G and in 8 of those the Phils have been up or down 4 runs.

The thing I don't get though is why the Phils continue to keep Herndon on the roster over Figueroa if they are trying to make the playoffs. You keep a guy like Herndon on your roster if you aren't a playoff contender all year. If you want a mopup/long man who has clearly pitched better and can give you the occasional spot start if needed, it is Figueroa.

I was kind of pissed that the Phils sent down Figueroa today to keep Herndon on the roster. Figueroa can go 2 IP no sweat. Maybe even 3 IP if needed. 2 IP out of Herndon is pushing his max.

[NEPP]

****Otherwise, we could've resigned Park for 1.5 mil and we would've had a long man in the pen for situations such as these.****

UC didn't want Park back for several reasons and it was mentioned last winter that he frustrated UC and Dube with his inability to pitch on back to back days. Park was never an option.

[bay_area_phan]

I love when Cholly uses our bench players in reverse order of talent. Start with the crappiest player. Then the next crappiest. Then the next. If all goes well, the game will end & you'll never have to use Francisco at all. That way, it keeps him well rested for the next game.

[DH Phils]

Heather: I agree that Moyer should've been taken out of the game, as he was all over the place and everything was getting hit hard. I can think of more than a few times this year, though, that he had 1 or 2 terrible innings and recovered.

[bay_area_phan]

Will: I'm going to go out on a limb & guess that you haven't looked at Chan Ho Park's numbers any time recently.

[DH Phils]

MG: Agree that Figueroa is good for an extra inning, disagree that he's pitched better than Herndon this year.

[Jack]

Watching Shane pop-out is probably my least favorite thing about the Phillies.

[Chris in VT]

Have the Phils really fallen so far that peoe are pining for the good ol' days of Nelson Figueroa? Jeesum Crow...

[NEPP]

General rule of thumb: if Herndon or Figueroa are in the game, we're either WAY ahead or WAY behind. The 12th pitcher on the staff is rarely that relevant to the team's overall season.

[Malcolm]

Good thing Shane had that three-day rest. His pop-ups look real crisp now.

[Heather]

Is there a reason Shane Victorino continues to bat 2nd? Right now, he has easy out written all over him. In 3 pitches or less, he'll pop out.

Frankly, I'd rather have Ruiz up there right now until Shane gets his mojo back.

[Jack]

Meanwhile, the Braves are winning behind a great start from Jair Jurrjens.

We're going to be 5.5 back if the scores hold, with Utley out for the foreseeable future.

[bay_area_phan]

Why all the consternation about the Phillies' offense? They've already doubled their usual scoring output tonight.

[The Truth Injection]

I gotta say I find it amusing that we have now determined that because the Phillies want to be a playoff team they should have Nelson Figueroa in the bullpen.

Nelson Figueroa has become an integral key to this team.

[MG]

Dempster is going to put the clamps on this offense until the 7th. Quietly been one of the better starters in the NL since he came out of the bullpen in '08. One of the few guys the Cubs were really counting on this season who hasn't been a bust or disappointment.

[NEPP]

Ironically (though it seems otherwise), Victorino is actually popping out a bit less this year.

He's popping out in ONLY 14.4% of the time as opposed to 17.0% last year.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

What did I miss?

I take it MOyer got shelled but, why are we pining for Figueroa? Every starter is ready to go on regular or more rest.

[GBrettfan]

I just got home, in time to hear the Phillies do nothing in the 5th, down 6-2. I take it Jamie did not have a great night? And I heard the offense had 3 whole hits. Not exactly the way we wanted to begin again after the break.

[Mick 0]

In all fairness, while he wasn't very sharp tonight, Jamie Moyer *did* come up with the simple idea of citizen banking.

[MG]

TTI - Who said anything about being integral? If the Phils are carrying a 12-man staff why can't they have at least 1 legit long-man for situations exactly like this?

It didn't happen that much the past two months because KK and Moyer generally were very consistent but I highly doubt both of those guys post the same numbers/give the Phils' the same consistency they did in the 1st half.

[NEPP]

WOW...what a play by Jimmy to get to it and Ryan to snag that throw.

[Jack]

I could give a crap about Nelson FIgueroa. Were it me, I would've found a way to keep him around, but yeah, it's basically irrelevant.

More relevant is the fact that we're staring down 5.5 games back without our best position player for the next month, at the least. A team with a better run differential than us (indicating that they're not some fluke team getting lucky).

[Jack]

Meant to say, down 5.5 games to... A team with a better run differential...

[Will Schweitzer]

BAP: Yeah, he's having a rough season, but based on his 2009 numbers, 1.5 mil would have been a bargain to bring him back.

Still, Park is water under the bridge. We had a guy who got the job done, and for less money than Park.

I'm not arguing that Herndon should have been sent packing instead. I'm arguing that after 2009 and his performance thus far this season, Lidge is the odd man out. Granted, Baez hasn't been any better, but Baez also didn't have the worst season of any closer in MLB history a season ago.

Madson, Contreras or Baez could fill Lidge's role with equal or greater effectiveness, which would allow a spot starter/long man in Figgy. Considering Happ and Blanton's ineffectiveness, I'd certainly want to keep a veteran arm in the fold.

It's just a matter of who is more valuable to the 2010 Phillies. They have a versatile pen that allows Lidge to be replaced. They do not have a replacement for the roles that Figueroa can fill.

[philwynk]

You guys are all talking about Herndon, Moyer, and Fig, but it's Victorino and Werth that are making my stomach ache. They used to be dangerous hitters. What the heck happened?

[Heather]

"More relevant is the fact that we're staring down 5.5 games back without our best position player for the next month"

I'm really starting to feel nauseated.

[NEPP]

****Madson, Contreras or Baez could fill Lidge's role with equal or greater effectiveness,****

Baez? Really?!?

[The Truth Injection]

"The thing I don't get though is why the Phils continue to keep Herndon on the roster over Figueroa if they are trying to make the playoffs. "

That is saying that Figueroa is more integral to the playoff chances than Herndon. it's the 12th man in the pitching staff. It's a guy who is going to see work when you are either up a bunch or down a bunch. Figgy has trouble throwing strikes and Herndon at least finds the strike zone and has a pretty good sinker so he could possibly get you a ground ball out in a situation that calls for it.

The fact that people are pining for the good old days of Nelson Figueroa is kind of ridiculous.

[NEPP]

We're a whopping 1.5 games back in the Wild Card. That's what we should be aiming for right now..

[MG]

I smell a Danny Baez appearance tonight . . . perfect spot for him. Phils are down 4 in a game on the road and showing no signs of life offensively.

[Will Schweitzer]

NEPP: Judging from 2009 to today, is Baez any worse than Lidge?

Hell, taking both of their entire careers, is Baez any worse than Lidge.

How long can a man make a living off of a single season? If we have to have a closer on the decline, I'll take the one that isn't coming off of a historic meltdown.

[Heather]

When you have a left fielder making 7 figures who isn't very much of a defender, it sure would be a nice thing if he could hit for power.

[MG]

TTI - Okay. Figueroa goes at least 2 IP tonight and would save an 1 appearance by one of your better relievers. Maybe 2.

[Jack]

TTI: Who cares about FIggy and Herndon? No one. Like I said, I would've kept Figgy, but it's the definition of a really marginal move.

As I said, the pressing problem is that we're looking at being down 5.5 games to a team which, quite frankly, the evidence points to maybe just being a better team than us this year.

In the middle of Interleague play, I asked if people were concerned about being 5 games back. Most said, we've got a stretch of easy teams (Cleveland, Pitt, etc) and we'd see after that. Well, it's after that.

Time for the Phils to get a patented comeback win here tonight.

[The Truth Injection]

And NEPP is right- worry about the Wild Card first. If you can get that under control than maybe worry about the division.

Nice at bat by Werth there. Would be nice if he'd start doing something.

[Heather]

Hey Dobbs, now would be a good time for a homer. Just pretend it's the ninth inning and you are down by 5. It's gravy.

[NEPP]

***NEPP: Judging from 2009 to today, is Baez any worse than Lidge?

Hell, taking both of their entire careers, is Baez any worse than Lidge.***

Yes,

Yes.

[NEPP]

Looked like a strike to me...on the outside black.

[The Truth Injection]

MG: Your bullpen just had 3 days off. They are rested. And the fact that guys are getting up every inning tells me that Charlie is just going to try and get guys work now that Moyer is out.

[denny b.]

9 strikeouts in 5 2/3 IP against Ryan Dempster?

Inexcusable.

[Jack]

I've got tickets to the Phils-Rockies game next Saturday at the Bank.

At this point, I'm about 50/50 on whether I will see Dom Brown that day. I didn't think they'd call him up at all this year, but the more he rakes at AAA, and the more this team struggles (especially Ibanez), the more I think they just might make the move, and soon.

[gobaystars!]

Save for Howard, these guys still can't hit. It's a shame.

[philwynk]

There was a real waste of a couple of base runners.

[MG]

I will see though that it must be 10x more frustrating to be a Cubs' fan this year. The big questions coming into the season (Would Soriano rebound and actually play hard? Ditto on Soto? What kind of impact would Byrd give them?) all have worked out in their favor.

Hell even during the season Castro has done a decent job of filling in at SS and Silva has pitched really well for them.

Too bad Zambrano had an ass and a complete failure, Lee looks very much like a 35-year old guy who should be a bench player/part-time DH, and Ramirez has been horrendous.

[bay_area_phan]

Will: Lidge is a big question mark because of his inconsistency. But if you think a journeyman AAA pitcher is of more value to the Phillies than Brad Lidge, then I have no hope of talking sense into you.

[GBrettfan]

Blown opportunity there. Disappointing. Or is it just me? I really hoped and believed they'd come out strong in the 2nd half.

[denny b.]

How many balls have we even hit hard tonight?

Two?

3 of the 4 hits were soft singles, that weren't even close to squared up.

Kind of a continuation of the first half.

[The Truth Injection]

denny: Dempster just struck out 9 Reds two starts ago. Right now I'd say the Reds have a better lineup than us.

[Jack]

TTI: Dempster is a good pitcher, for sure.

But we need to win games. I don't care how, and I don't care against who. We just have to win games.

[The Truth Injection]

Jack: I think the chances of seeing Brown are much better right now than they were two weeks ago.

[MG]

TTI - Yeah and it is f@cking stupid. The Phils don't have another off-day until Aug. 2. You want to do everything you can to keep your relievers fresh during this stretch. Instead Cholly is warming up his relievers and have guys limit their work like they have an off-day on Monday.

[denny b.]

Cholly is actually doing the smart thing tonight with the pen.

He isn't overworking any of them. He got Kendrick an inning. He is getting Durbin back out there.

Probably will see Baez next.

They haven't been used that much this year and have had several days off, so its smart to get them some work on a night where your starter didn't have it.

[DH Phils]

Will Schweitzer: What exactly have you seen from Danys Baez that makes you think he'd be as good or better than Lidge as a closer?

[Will Schweitzer]

"Okay. Figueroa goes at least 2 IP tonight and would save an 1 appearance by one of your better relievers. Maybe 2."

Which could have made the difference between winning tomorrow.

The sarcasm that losing guys like Figgy and Herndon mean nothing to our season is way off base. Their contributions are less noticeable when they occur, but the absence of their contributions certainly has a negative impact over a season.

We have multiple individuals who can fill the role of closer as well as Lidge (Baez, Madson) or better (Contreras). We do not have a replacement for Figgy, as evident by the fact that our fifth starter had to be inserted into this game.

Suppose Moyer burns himself out and is ineffective. Suppose Hamels or Kendrick spend some time on the DL. Do we rely on Happ, who has been unable to get AAA hitters out? Do we promote Carpenter and hope for the best? What's so outrageous about keeping a versatile, veteran arm on the roster?

But I digress. I've beaten this dead horse more than I wanted to already.

[The Truth Injection]

MG: That is your method, but as you can see someone like denny b thinks it's an ok method. I think it is fine too because he is not really overworking guys. He is just trying to get through the middle innings of this game and hope the offense gets this to a spot where they can steal it.

I would say though that Herndon and Kendrick throwing 10 pitches a piece will not wear them out.