Mail: No statistical separation between J-Roll, Valdez

Longtime reader, George S., makes a keen observation about Philadelphia's middle infielders.

"In response to a lot of Jimmy Rollins love on Beerleaguer the other day, here are two batting lines. The first is our former MVP Gold Glove All-Star shortstop. The second is an end-of-the-bench journeyman infielder thrown into the starting lineup by injuries. Rollins has Wilson Valdez beat on the OBP, getting more walks, but other than that, he should be embarrassed. Valdez is giving nothing away to JRoll in terms of defense either from what I have seen.

      PA     AB     R      H   2B   3B  HR  RBI  BB  K    BA    SLG  OPS
1    253    218    27    54    11    2    4    25    32  23   248    372    715
2    264    248    28    63    10    3    4    26    9    33   254    367    650

"Last night Carlos Ruiz won the game with a 2-run double in the bottom of the 9th inning. I don't know if you watched the game, but if you did, did you happen to notice that Greg Dobbs was in the on deck circle when Ruiz won it? CM was going to have Dobbs bat for Valdez? I have to be mistaken here, but if not, what possible rationale could CM have thrown out there in that situation? Dobbs 4-40 as a PH, and Valdez with two hits in the game already." - George

Comments

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Ouch.

[EastFallowfield]

Where's the GIDP column?

[Dan in Philly]

PA JRoll - 253 Outs made: 167
PA Valdex - 264 Outs made: 192

How are these players the same, again?

[R.Billingsly]

I think Valdez has done an admirable job filling in. But so what? When Utley returns, is Cholly supposed to bench J-Roll in favor of Valdez? He'd have to have his head examined if he did that.

[CJ]

Dobbs was obviously on deck because he was a lefty and Broxton is a righty. The funny part of this is that Valdez has a reverse split and his OPS vs. RHP is 100 points higher than vs. LHP.

Re: Valdez vs. Rollins

65 points of OPS and 23 additional walks in 9 fewer PAs is not inconsequential. Also... one guy had a pretty serious ankle injury and the other guy has been completely healthy.

I'm just sayin'...

[R.Billingsly]

I do, however, agree that Dobbs should not have PH for Valdez last night if the situation arose. Dobbs would have hit for the pitcher. I'd take Valdez over Dobbs at this point. Just not over Rollins.

[awh]

I think the point is that Valdez earns some praise for playing as well as he has played.

He has, so far, hit at above replacement level, albeit slightly, and has certainly displayed defensive skills SUPERIOR to many MLB starter (Dan Uggla comes to mind).

[Jack]

Yeah, you can't just ignore the OBP difference. The 60 points difference between .283 and .344 is the difference between being replacement-level and above-average.

Which is to say, a world of difference.

[Jack]

But yeah, hats off to Wilson Valdez for at least contributing something, in a season in which we've obviously called on him far more than anyone was hoping for.

[tyler]

Do you have a stats for getting timely hits? Numbers arent everything, how about big time hits in the playoffs? or late august sept?
Many more factors go into a player than the short list of stats you tried to pull out. You could prob do that with many players in the MLB. write something worth reading.

[Dan in Philly]

Frankly, I wish that "Outs made" was an official MLB stat, like singles, doubles, etc. I know somewhere someone tracks it, but it's soooo much easier to understand than OBP and OPS. And anyone can understand why one player that has made almost a full games' worth of outs in about the same number of PAs as another player is a less valuable player.

[Morty]

Valdez has been decent, but the attempted comparison is laughable...

[Steve]

That's Rollins' OBP you have listed as his SLG. His SLG is higher than Valdez (but lower than KRod!). SIXTY points of OBP is a whole lot of "nothing", too.

Valdez is the walking definition of replacement level. And that's not thing in the world but this comparison is completely invalid.

[Conshy Matt]

yeah JW, how bout a do over? yo new thr...(hoping)

[Sophist]

Valdez stinks. Rollins' increasing BB rate is very encouraging for an aging player. he'll find his stroke. He had power and average before the injuries.

[CJ]

Wow... no reason to get angry at JW for posting the comparison. My goodness.

It's not like we spend more than about 15 comments before we move on to our own topic anyway.

Speaking of which... we never would have won that game last night had we not traded away Bobby Abreu and Cliff Lee.

[bay_area_phan]

"No statistical separation" is a bit of hyperbole. Clearly, that's not the case.

But, if George S.'s point was simply to show that Rollins has been a major liability at the plate for the past 2 years, then he's dead-on right. I'm simply dumbfounded by all this Beerleaguer zeal to give a 4 or 5-year deal to a 31-year old good-glove, no-hit shortstop who has had trouble staying healthy over the last 3 years.

[Conshy Matt]

casey blake is 6'2. for some reason this seems relevant. i just can't figure out how???

[RSB]

Sophist, I was looking at the BB/K rate and also saw that as a silver lining in Rollins' line. I think it's kind of a lost season for him, but those numbers indicate that he's both putting the ball in play and having better at-bats at a better rate than we're accustomed to seeing. If he's to remain the leadoff hitter, that trend bodes favorably.

[Sophist]

BAP - fangraphs had that no hit SS as worth $12M last year. And that's when his OBP was under .300.

[Dukes]

I love how people get their panties all in a bunch when someone gets honest about JRoll. So JRoll has been slightly better, he still should be embarrassed. And to my eyes Valdez has the edge on defense though I'd still call JRoll a very good defender.

[Fang Island Native]

Charlie is a slave to the lefty-righty match-up. That's why Dobbs was on-deck.

[Dan in Philly]

BAP, according to Baseball Prospectus, JRoll was the 10th best SS in the ML last year, a down year for him:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=68982

[Dave]

Gotta agree with everyone about how 60 points in OBP is a HUGE difference.

Could just sum it all up with wOBA and WAR:
JRoll .330 and 1.9
VAldez .284 and 0.4

Not close.

[tom]

Valdez almost grounded into a double play during the post game celebration splits or not, that, is why Dobbs was in the on deck circle.

[CJ]

I think Dobbs was a little short to have in the on deck circle at that point in the game.

[R.Billingsly]

Dukes: Who do you want in your lineup: Rollins or Valdez? (That should be an overwhelmingly easy decision).

That's why my panties are "all in a bunch". It drives me nuts when people think J-Roll brings little to the table.

[awh]

"But, if George S.'s point was simply to show that Rollins has been a major liability at the plate for the past 2 years, then he's dead-on right."

bap, what planet are you on?

Seriously, do you even watch the games?

In 2009 Rollins OPS was .719. Not great, but it was still the 11th HIGHEST among all MLB SS with 500+ PA.

In 2008 his OPS was 6th highest among all SS with 500+ PA.

I guess having a top ten SS the last two season is just not good enough for you.

[Joe Cowley]

It came so naturally as soon as I saw Dobbs pop out of the dugout to say aloud: "There's the first out"....

[bay_area_phan]

Sophist: If Fangraphs thinks $12M is fair value for a .250-hitting popup machine with a poor OBP, then I'm glad Fangraphs isn't the Phillies' GM.

I understand there aren't a lot of good offensive shortstops. That doesn't mean I want to lock up a soon-to-be 32-year old bad one, with recurring injury issues, for 4 years.

For the record, Rollins is my favorite player. But there isn't a single thing about his recent track record which suggests that he's a good risk for a long-term deal.

[tom]

Also at a certain point you have to concede that hey, Valdez has been a nice little story to have filled in so admirably out of nowhere for this long. But that Rollins has still been the better and more valuable player even with time missed and battling through a couple different injuries, can't we cut him a little slack here?

At the end of the day... it's a nice little statistical comparison, but let's not get too caught up in the stats here ala FanGraph's torching of Ibanez recently where they went so far as to compare batting in the major leagues to coin flips.

[awh]

bap, I usually don't engage in personal attacks, but your commentary on this thread is bordering on idiotic.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

If Rollins is your favorite player, i'd hate to hear who you don't like. :-)

[Dave]

Do you have a stats for getting timely hits? Numbers arent everything, how about big time hits in the playoffs? or late august sept?

You can't say "Numbers aren't everything" and then want to know what the numbers are for certain situations.

[awh]

BTW, bap, who raised the point of a cantract extension? You did..............no one else.

You sound like Heather bashing Howard's extension 2-1/2 years before it takes effect.

[Kutztown fan]

At least Valdez is an upgrade over Bruntlett.

[johnnysanz3]

Rollins > Valdez (forever)

[CJ]

baseball-reference.com has some great stats that are situational.

For example, let's look at Placido Polanco

2 outs, RISP: 345/345/483
Late & Close: 286/348/452
(Late & Close are PA in the 7th or later with the batting team tied, ahead by one, or the tying run at least on deck.)

High Leverage: 321/367/446
(Here's a long explanation about how "Leverage" is determined.)

Looks like Placido is a keeper!

[tom]

With how deep into this season we are, in the midst of a pennant race and chasing down the Braves, following a miraculous comeback win last night... isn't talk about future contracts completely ludicrous at this moment anyway?

If you wanna express concern about the Phillies investments, talk about how Halladay is on pace to throw like 250 innings, possibly even 300 if they're involved in October. That's a guaranteed 20 million dollar per season investment you're risking every useless complete game he finishes.

[awh]

Oh, and bap, despite being injured this season and missing significant time, the "major liability at the plate for the past 2 years" STILL has the 11th HIGHEST OPS of MLB SS with at least 250 PA.

If Jimmy Rollins, in an injury riddled down year still puts up the 11th highest OPS among ALL MLB SS, I think I can live with it given the defense he plays and the other intangibles (leadership, etc.) that he brings to the table.

[Dukes]

R. Billingsly: It's not that JRoll is bad, it's just that he will retire with a carreer that could have been even better. In my opinion, if he would take more pitches, choke up on his bat, try a bunt or two, and quit swinging for the moon, he could see major improvements in batting average and on base percentage. UC preaches "know thyself" and JRoll never quite figured out what that means. He's very good, but he could have been great. It's his stubborness around his own thinking that he's a power hitter that has gotten in the way. The reason why this conversation is even happening is because Valdez knows himself. Yes, I'd rather have Jimmy out there because he has more talent, but the numbers are close because Valdez knows himself. He knows that there are times when he is going to have to bunt to get on and times when he's going to have to hit the ball the other way.

[Joe Cowley]

Valdez>Dobbs
Gload>Dobbs
Sweeney>Dobbs
Phillie Phanatic>Dobbs
Guy in section 245 row 10 seat 3>Dobbs

[Brian G]

Ignoring 60 points of OBP is not a keen observation, it's an incomplete one.

[CJ]

For the record, here are Valdez and Rollins with their 2010 situational stats:

2 outs, RISP
Valdez 290/371/387 (35 PAs)
Rollins 400/531/680 (32 PAs)

Late & Close
Valdez 385/400/487 (43 PAs)
Rollins 226/342/387 (38 PAs)

High Leverage
Valdez 271/314/354 (54 PAs)
Rollins 306/357/528 (42 PAs)

These stats suggest Rollins is generally much more clutch than Valdez, except in those Late & Close situations.

[awh]

Lastly, as a further compliment to Valdez, Wilson has a higher OPS than Orlando Cabrera, Brendan Ryan, Chone Figgins and is tied with Theriot.

I'll take that from a bench player.

[Zudok]

I think Rollins is tentative in all aspects of the game. He's still feeling the calf injury and afraid of tweaking it again. It's affecting his whole game: fielding, power, running. I'm not criticizing him; it's understandable. This is the J-Roll we're going to get the rest of 2010, which is better than no J-Roll at all.

[EastFallowfield]

Salisbury tweets:

Utley to Clearwater to rehab (hitting).

[EastFallowfield]

And Zo tweets:

Lineup: Rollins SS, Polanco 3B, Ibanez LF, Sweeney 1B, Werth RF, Victorino CF, Ruiz C, Valdez 2B, Hamels P.

[awh]

tom, excellent post.

Joe Cowley:

Hot girl behind "hex boy" > Dobbs.

[curt]

Dobbs was the happiest man in the ballpark last night that Blake choked and Ruiz didn't. And yes Cholly was insane to PH him for Valdez.

[Joe Cowley]

LOL didnt see her yet but I definitely heard she has him beat. If I was captain of a half ball or wiffle ball league, I would get first picks on Dobbs, he has the perfect swing. Big leagues, not so much....

[phanatic's brother]

I love how WV runs. Kinda like he is tip toeing as fast as he can.

[tom]

Can we just have a whole post devoted to how excited Sweeney is to be here? He was jumping out of his skin excited just to score ANY run last night in the ninth and then couldn't have jumped around more post game. Teams that make deep runs year to year find guys like him and feed of their energy, nothing but love for him.

[Joe Cowley]

Sweeney is definitely a case of an underappreciated veteran who deserves to be with a team like this as a role player, and is thankful for it. He was invisible in KC,and it's a shame because with a bigger market team his numbers would have been more respected and noticed.

[Heather]

"You sound like Heather bashing Howard's extension 2-1/2 years before it takes effect."

I thought you just said you don't like to get personal.

[Joe Cowley]

By the way having been at the game last night, I believe that one of the main reasons for our comeback was the fact that legendary funnyman Joe Piscopo was in the house. I think he should be our Kate Smith...

[Fatalotti]

Somewhere, right now...

Wilson Valdez is grounding into a double play.

[Heather]

Jimmy Rollins has been underperforming with the bat. I don't think we need to conjure up an elaborate set of stats that compares him to another member of the team to illustrate that.

[Hitman]

Over two seasons and 890 ABs, Rollins is hitting .249. His HR numbers are way down. Is he in decline? There is little question that the answer is yes. Does his total game contribute to the team? The answer is yes without doubt. But there is no logical reason to bat him leadoff, other than the fact that Cholly is a rigid moron. I trust you all heard Mike Schmidt recently discussing Rollins' uppercut swing as being the reason for his incessant popups. I think his mindset is to hit a HR every at bat rather than just trying to get on base as a competent leadoff hitter should do. Move him down to 8th in the order. Assuming that Howard and Utley return soon, the leadoff guy should be Werth.

[limoguy]

Kutztown Fan said it best.

"At least Valdez is an upgrade over Bruntlett."

Very good, K-town Fan.

[EastFallowfield]

New tweet says no Chooch tonight.

[tom]

And hey, even Bruntlett played very capably replacing Rollins in the beginning of 2008 when he was hurt, so there's that.

[Brian G]

Werth
Utley
Polanco
Howard
Victorino
Ibanez
Rollins
Ruiz
...I could live with that.

[Kutztown fan]

Thank you, limoguy. I have rare moments of clarity. Nice to be acknowledged when one comes along.

[JT in NC]

Rollins is making $8.5M this season. Valdez in making less than $1M.

So we are paying $7M+ for 60pts of OBP? Seems to me Rollins is not performing up to his contract this year.

Doesn't mean he stinks, or that Valdez is better, just the Rollins should not be satisfied with his performance this year.

[Heather]

"other than the fact that Cholly is a rigid moron."

Maybe Rollins gets pissy when he's not leadoff. Who knows? I mean, I'm not usually one to defend UC, but it wouldn't be the first time certain players got comfortable in a certain spot in the lineup and considered it an insult to get removed from said spot in the lineup.

[Sophist]

Yeah, RSB. Rollins will lose some speed as he ages, and his batting average will suffer for it. But if he retains his power (which shouldn't diminish much) and becomes a more selective hitter (which he seems to be doing), he'll be a productive for many more years.

His timing is just off, but he's looked much better this month. A 17% walk rate, a ~13 HR/FB prior to the injury, and 10 SB in 55 games.

[Iceman]

Glad 12 hours after the best Phils late-inning comeback in years, BL is back to basics slamming Cholly for having Dobbs in the on-deck circle for the imaginary PH appearance that never happened. Also good to see BAP adding to his "I didn't know what inning it was, season = on life support" commentary last night by calling J-Roll a 'good glove, no-hit shortstop."

[CJ]

Heather: "I don't think we need to conjure up an elaborate set of stats that compares him to another member of the team to illustrate that."

I'm assuming that's in response to my post, since I used "elaborate" stats to compare Rollins to Valdez. Of course, I was simply responding to a specific post from someone else on Beerleaguer. In the future, I'll ignore everyone. My deepest apologies.

[Old Phan]

Hot girl behind "hex boy">Guy in section 245 row 10 seat 3

[Joe Cowley]

Joe Piscopo>Dobbs

[Sophist]

I don't deny he's probably in decline. Rollins' skilled probably peaked during his MVP season. Is he a .250 hitter now? I don't think so. If he can stay healthy, I think he's a .270 hitter for power (35+ doubles, 15+ HR). This isn't make believe. His underlying stats give solid basis for it, and I've posted them before.

Given that he seems to becoming a more disciplined hitter, he could actually retain something very near his 06-08 peak. Fangraphs had that peak as being worth well over $20M/year.

The big question mark for Rollins is his health. Not his ability. He isn't losing his power. He had plenty of power last year and at the beginning of this season.

Rollins has a 91 OPS+ right now and has played much of the season injured. His OPS+ from 04-09 was 101. It's not a stretch to believe he could have a nice final 48 games and finish at or above that level. Just look at his recent numbers.

[phlipper]

I'm not sure why crediting Valdez for some dang decent baseball needs to be coupled with harping on Rollins.

Rollins has suffered from injuries this year. I think that people really tend to underestimate the effect of injuries on a player's timing. Rollins started out the year well-conditioned with his timing in good order and was extremely productive; he was looking at more pitches/walking a lot which showed a significant improvement over past performance. He was, obviously, a huge part of the Phillies' hot start.

When he initially came back after being injured his timing was off, he missed more time and still struggled with his timing. Lately as he's had time to get it going again, his level of performance has increased as well. And I haven't pulled up the numbers, but I'd venture to guess that the Phillies' record this year is quite a bit better with Rollins in the lineup than with Rollins out of the lineup.

J-Roll is a huge part of this team at many levels. Why people feel some need to diminish his contributions is beyond me.

[bay_area_phan]

"I usually don't engage in personal attacks."

No, only 3 of them against me in the last 12 hours.

Apparently you weren't around for yesterday's thread when there was considerable discussion about extending Rollins. I wasn't the one who introduced the subject, nor was I the one who started this entire thread by comparing JW to Valdez.

Rollins, by the way, may have the 11th highest OPS of shortstops with more than 250 ABs, but there's also a group of about 8 guys below him who are all within .20 points. So the notion that Rollins, in his current form, is some sort of scarce offensive commodity is just false. And, in stark contrast to Rollins, many of those guys are young and on the rise.

When a guy has 3 straight years of declining numbers, 2 full seasons of very pedestrian offensive numbers, and a rash of recent injuries, why on earth would you lock him up with an expensive long-term contract without any evidence that he can reverse that trend? If he can finish the season strong, or put up a good, injury-free 1st half next year, then I think you could rationally discuss extending him. But until or unless that happens, you'd be extending him based on nothing more than nostalgia and wishful thinking.

[phlipper]

Sorry for repeating much of what you wrote, Sophist - in a far more verbose manner. I hadn't read what you posted before my writing my rant.

[tom]

It is an oddity, that Manuel gets killed for the very reason he ends up being a decent manager. He's stubborn, he's unwavering, but he's painfully consistent. You'd never confuse him with a good tactical manager capable of managing a pitching staff or bullpen, but the every day players who play for him like and respect that he's a man of his word and has confidence (no matter how unfounded) in them.

You can laud how he stuck with Ibanez and all that, or complain that he still allows Rollins to lead off, or make an argument that Victorino would've been better off starting last night over Francisco even if Manuel promised Ben the start... but at the end of the day this group of veterans (most of all Rollins himself) likes showing up and seeing Rollins name atop the lineup card and I would think Charlie's take is "well the ends justify the means, we generally play better with him there so it ain't broke".

I should also note that I don't think Rollins should be leading off, but that they've been so successful recently it's hard for me to really harp on it.

[CJ]

bap: I'm assuming you meant within .020 points and not .200 points... or else that's a HUGE gap!

[krukker]

I ran some numbers to see who among the injured regulars the Phils seemed to miss most (according to the record with vs without) and found some interesting results.

What I did was compile the record with each player in the lineup and the record without. I then found the winning percentage of each, and number of wins per 162 games according to these percentages.

Overall
64-50

Howard
with 57-47
without 7-3
162-gm diff (113-89) 24

Rollins
with 34-21
without 30-29
162-gm diff (82-100) -18

Polanco
with 53-34
without 11-16
162-gm diff (66-99) -33

Utley
with 39-33
without 25-17
162-gm diff (96-88) 8

Victorino
with 55-45
without 9-5
162-gm diff (104-89) 15

These numbers show that the loss of Polanco hurt the Phillies the most, as they played like a 66-win team without him and a 99-team with him. Rollins in second with an 18 game split.

The records would indicate that the replacements for Howard, Utley, and Victorino have done very well (albeit in small samples in the cases of Howard and Vic).

The Phillies are obviously a much better team with everyone healthy and the opening day lineup on the field, but I found these numbers interesting nonetheless.

[Old Phan]

"Joe Piscopo>Dobbs "

OK, now it's just getting personal.

[Joe Cowley]

Funniest point of the game: Piscopo does a bit singing Sinatra with Phanatic after the top of the eighth down 9-2, finishes act when pissed off Phils fan screams at him: "Go sit down, and you sucked in Goodfellas!!"

Things turned on a dime after that.....

[phlipper]

I mean, I'm not usually one to defend UC,

Really? You could have fooled me.

[R.Billingsly]

Dukes: Your post of 3:43 was completely based off of speculation and your interpretation of what Rollins' approach to the plate, work ethic and willingness to learn/adapt are. I don't think it's fair to do that. In fact, I think it was a little insulting that you insinuate that he doesn't listen to coaches and is "stubborn." You assume that Jimmy doesn't buy into the "know thyself" teachings of Manuel, but Valdez does. On what is that based? Perhaps the player you described in your post is the kind of player he is. Suggestions that you think may help his game may not, in fact, fit into his game. I'm sorry he's disappointed you in the fact that he could be a "great" player instead of a "very good."

He is what he is and you either have to take him or leave him. He's been playing this way since he was brought up. I love what he brings to the table and what his contributions mean to this team.

I don't know what else to say. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Conshy Matt]

old phan, if dobbs can blow up a surgical glove and place it over his head, i'd disagree with that statement. as it is, it might be true.

krukker - should've put the old SAMPLE SIZE WARNING before your post. while interesting, this could get ugly.

[bay_area_phan]

"Given that he seems to becoming a more disciplined hitter . . ."

I'm not sure I'm ready to jump to this conclusion. If we're going to come up with excuses to explain away his .250 average over a period of 1,000 PAs (as so many are doing), then we surely can't turn around and hang our hat on what is essentially a half season of increased walk totals. Rollins has had periods in the past when his walk rate jumped. He has never been able to maintain it.

Personally, I preferred the Jimmy Rollins who hit .280 and rarely walked, to the one who hits .250 and walks a lot. But if we can't have the .280-hitting Rollins, then the higher walk rate is certainly a good thing. A .250 hitter who draws walks is better than a .250 hitter who doesn't draw walks. Neither such hitter should be batting leadoff, but that's a whole different subject.

[tom]

Wasn't their record without Ruiz even worse? I don't want to so quickly discredit all the work behind those numbers but I don't they take everything into account to make a judgement based solely on winning percentage in each player's absence.

[phlipper]

New tweet says no Chooch tonight.

The way this year has been going, it would figure that he got injured during the celebration last night. Or scratching his... er...groin, when he got up this morning.

[bay_area_phan]

CJ: Um, yeah. Obviously, I meant .020. .200 would be (literally) like the difference between Chase Utley & Wilson Valdez.

[Sophist]

What's changing with Rollins

06: .277 BA (.281 babip), 8% 2B/3B, 11% HR/FB, 8% BB
07: .296 BA (.300 babip), 8% 2B/3B, 11% HR/FB, 6% BB
08: .277 BA (.290 babip), 8% 2B/3B, 7% HR/FB, 9% BB
09: .250 BA (.251 babip), 7% 2B/3B, 9% HR/FB, 6% BB
10: .248 BA (.259 babip), 6% 2B/3B, 5% HR/FB, 13% BB

Rollins BAbip on line drives

career: .725
2009: .635 (that's unlucky)
2010: .725

Rollins BAbip on ground balls

career: .222
2010: .148

He hasn't been making good contact, and his speed has diminished this year. But before the injury his LD% was through the roof and his HR/FB was around 13%. Odd that a guy with two lower body injuries would lose his groove and be tentative on the basepaths, isn't it?

[krukker]

Conshy Matt - I could have just as well left out Howard and Vic because they haven't missed all that many games. The Phils have played well without them anyway.

However, the games missed by Rollins (52% of the season so far), Polanco (24%) and Utley (37%) are hardly insignificant, and these three are really the main focus.

[Andy]

oldster:
As far as pinch-hitting, even Lou Dobbs>>Greg Dobbs.

Chooch won't play with Lou, though.

[CJ]

New tweet from Mandy Housenick (beat writer):
Ruiz appears to be limping, but nothing confirmed. we know he was pulled from the starting lineup. Could just be aches and pains. #phillies

------------

Ugh... let's just hope he wasn't injured in the post game celebration.

[curt]

bap - the only numbers that matter are the ones that are consistent with our prejudices. Get with it man.

[phlipper]

And while we're crediting under-appreciated members of the Phils' organization; where's the love for Amaro for picking up Gload, Sweeny, Valdez, Polly, and Oswalt?

Heather, were you about to say something?

[R.Billingsly]

No Chooch tonight because, let's be honest, they don't need him to beat the Mets.

[krukker]

For Tom, the numbers for Ruiz:

with 46-33
without 18-17
162-gm diff (83-94) -11

So his absence produces a -11 win score on this scale, which is less severe than both Polanco and Rollins.

With catchers, this is harder to tell because they are expected to get days off anyway. The days he missed were not necessarily due to injury. This is why I left him out originally.

[denny b.]

Choocher can't play everyday.

Plus Schneider just saw the knuckleball last Sunday (and had an RBI knock in the game).

Ruiz will play tomorrow and Sunday.

[Dukes]

R.Billingsly: That's fine, we can agree to disagree. It's not that I don't like Rollins, it's just that he frustrates me because I think he could be even better. And you are correct, that is speculation, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one to harp on his knack for swinging for the fences, etc., and how changing his approach would most likley rise his AVG and OBP (I once heard Kruk on Baseball Tonight reference a conversation he had with Milt Thompson about how frustrated Milt gets about Jimmy's approach - that was last year).

Whoever had the contract comparison between Rollins and Valdez hit the nail on the head. For the money Rollins makes over Valdez, the numbers should be much farther apart.

[Andy]

In re: Valdez vs. Rollins

Who thinks anyone but Rollins will have better stats from now until the ends of each one's career? (No one I hope.) But the comp is illustrative that Exxon has slid himself into the line-up with the ease of a freshly greased pelican.

(Ewww...I can't believe I said that, either; but I can't get myself to take it out.)

In re: Pinch-hitting Dobbs
The only thing stupider than ph'ing Dobbs for Valdez there would have been bunting Chooch to ph Dobbs. As much as bunting is still loved to death by many, some people, probably woulda done just that.

[R.Billingsly]

Watching the post-game celebration for the 50th time, I don't see where he could have gotten hurt during it. It seemed like a pretty harmless celebration (no piles, etc). Hopefully it's just normal wear and tear stuff and they're simply giving him the night off.

[Joe Cowley]

In an unrelated matter Chooch just filed a restraining order against F-Rod...