More 40-man maintenance & coaching returns

The Phillies announced this afternoon that both first/third-base coach Juan Samuel and assistant hitting coach Wally Joyner would be returning to the team in 2014.

Samuel returns for a fourth year with the Phillies and has been a coach and manager with the Orioles and Tigers since 1999. He also managed Binghmaton in the Mets' system in 2006. A Wall-of-Fame inductee, Samuel played second base for the Phillies from 1983 to 1989. From 1989 to 1998, he played for the Mets, Dodgers, Royals, Reds, Blue Jays and Tigers.

Joyner initially informed the Phillies he would not be returning for a second season as the assistant hitting coach. However, CSNPhilly.com's Jim Salisbury wrote that Joyner had a change of heart and would return to work with hitting coach Steve Henderson.

Joyner is a popular coach with the Phillies' hitters and has been cited for forging a strong bond with Dom Brown, perhaps inciting the breakout season for the outfielder in 2013. With Joyner as a mentor, Brown belted 27 homers and made the All-Star team last season.

Joyner played for the Angels, Royals, Padres and Braves during his playing career that lasted from 1986 to 2001. He replaced Hall of Famer Rod Carew at first base for the Angels and was runner-up for Rookie of the Year behind Jose Canseco in '86.

The Phillies are still searching for a pitching coach and possibly a bullpen coach. Pete Mackanin rejoined the staff as the third base coach and Larry Bowa is set to work as Ryne Sandberg's bench coach. Samuel will return to coaching first base. 

Meanwhile, the Phillies also announced that they had outrighted pitchers J.C. Ramirez and Cesar Jimenez as well as outfielders Roger Bernadina and Casper Wells from the 40-man roster. The players could return as non-roster invitees to spring training.

The Phillies have 36 players on the 40-man, but that includes pending free agents and six players on the 60-day disabled list.

Comments

[NEPP]

So they upped their offer monetarily to Joyner then?

[Phillibuster]

NEPP: My bet is he didn't get the offers he thought he would elsewhere.

Or he'd interviewed and considered himself the top candidate, only to get passed over.

[awh™]

'buster, or, he could have come back with a better offer and told them he'd stay if they matched it.

[NEPP]

Q: So, it says here you were the Phillies Asst. Hitting Coach last year?

A: Yes, that's correct.

Q: Didn't they have one of the worst offenses in the league?

A: Well yes, but...

Q: What would you say you do there?

A: I took the hitting instructions from Steve and took them to the hitters.

Q: I gotta ask, couldn't Steve just instruct the hitters himself?

A: Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn hitters so that Steve doesn't have to. I have hitting skills; I am good at dealing with hitters. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

[ColonelTom]

+1 for the Office Space reference.

[awh™]

NEPP, funny!

[The Truth Injection]

MG: The Sprinsgsteen thing is legitimately the funniest thing you've ever posted on here.

The main idea is not literally "toughening them up." I think you and awh are focusing on the surface aspect of the article. They are going to ask pitchers to do things differently and throw more strikes (duh!) but it isn't just idle talk if they are going to throw promotions into it as an incentive.

I like THAT aspect of the change. There will still be some young pitchers that will lack command but the idea is that with that incentive built in- it might force more of them to seek out advice on how to gain command and avoid dopes (looking at you Aumont) from saying "Whatever whatever, I'll do what I want." It makes guys accountable for themselves and there is no reason to have an issue with that.

[LorecorE]

I always thought that Joyner raising his stock as a member of the 2013 Phillies coaching staff was farfetched.

[Phillibuster]

TTI: I figured "toughening them up" meant that they shouldn't be spending their time dwelling on failure. It's easy to get discouraged when your attempt at a back-door slider turns into a meatball that some dude nobody's heard of takes yard.

However, if you let it shake you so that you're afraid to pitch anywhere near the zone for the next 1-2 hitters, you only make it worse.

[LorecorE]

speaking of raising stock - Fantex is apparently running a stock exchange of pro athletes. They struck a deal with Arain Foster to allow them to pay him $10M in exchange for 20% of his remaining earnings, whether it be his nfl contract, endorsements, apperaeance fees, etc.

To raise that $10M, they will offer an Arian Foster "IPO". His stock will then raise/drop based on the likelihood of his potential future earnings.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/10/17/want-a-piece-of-a-star-athlete-now-you-really-can-buy-one/?_r=0

This concept fits with baseball 100x better than football. MLB players could sell off % of their future potential earnings to start getting paid in the prearb years. Imagine how much $$ top prospects could earn up front without ever needing to prove themselves.

[bay_area_phan]

If the Phillies are implementing their "no-promotion unless you can throw strikes" policy retroactively, then Severino Gonzalez will be the only guy in the organization who doesn't repeat a level this year.

[Phillibuster]

Lore: It would work better for the athletes themselves, but not so much for the folks buying the shares. They'd be like junk stocks in all but a few cases.

[Lake Fred]

NEPP, I enjoyed your mock Wally Joynor job interview. You are probably very close to the truth. I am glad that Joyner came back. He was one of the few coaching highlights from last year.

[bay_area_phan]

"To raise that $10M, they will offer an Arian Foster "IPO". His stock will then raise/drop based on the likelihood of his potential future earnings."

If that concept takes hold for MLB players, I'm emptying my bank account and buying puts on every player on the Phillies' roster.

[LorecorE]

buster: yes, but in the NFL players are making cash right up front.

To keep it philly-centric, Lane Johnson got a $20M deal before he ever played an NFL down, with over $13M of it guaranteed.

DOM, the Phillies' most recent long running top prospect, was called up in 2010 and still hasn't even earned $1M yet.

Johnson has very little incentive to discount his future since he's living well immediately - and investors would have very little incentive to buy into an NFL player who get hurt much more often and contracts aren't fully guaranteed. DOM could have easily already be given multimillions, while investors would still be salivating for his arb and FA years.

[Phillibuster]

Lore: Yeah, but in the NFL there's no "minor leagues" they have to slog through. Top-picks are played on the first team right away (albeit for not much money) where they will succeed or fail quickly. Most succeed, at least enough to be league average.

In the MLB, the sheer length of time from draft to "serious pay potential" is closer to 10 years. Additionally, the failure rate of even the 1st-overall pick is so high that you'd have to pay pennies on the dollar for it to be remotely worthwhile.

As I said: it'd be great for the MLB players... But their shares wouldn't sell for very much, because over 70% of the guys wouldn't earn more than maybe 5-10MM in their entire career, with probably at least 50% never making the majors.

[LorecorE]

buster: I'm comparing 1st year players, not college/minor leaguers.

[Phillibuster]

Ah, well if you're not talking fresh out of the draft then it's somewhat more investor-friendly, yes.

Still, it'd be a gamble far more often than it is in the NFL. That's good news for the player, most likely, and again for the stock exchange itself, but I could see it scaring off most conservative or even middle-of-the-road investors.

[Chris in VT]

NEPP, thank you for the Office Space reference at 1:49

As for Joyner, I'm sure he didn't want to be an "Assistant Hitting Coach", thought he could get a job elsewhere, and discovered that there is about zero interest in promoting someone who helped oversee one of the worst offenses in the league

[NEPP]

Assistant Regional Manager?

Assistant TO the Regional Manager...

[Sil]

So they upped their offer monetarily to Joyner then?

This was my thought as well.

Regarding the walks discussion in the previous thread - it's good they are recognizing the problem of issuing walks to opposing hitters. However, I'd argue that the lack of receiving walks is a similarly troubling trend. Not surprising that it doesn't get addressed given our GM's obsession with.... well, you know.

[awh™]

Sil, excellent post!

[bay_area_phan]

Sil: The headline just says, "Phillies officials look to cure walks epidemic." I assumed they were talking about the team's everyday players.

[Dickie Thong]

I thought I read that Joyner was vying for the Angels hitting coach position, but yesterday they chose Don Baylor instead.

[MG]

What are the chances Amaro has done of spoof of 'Fiddler's on the Roof' and instead of 'Tradition' he replaced it with 'Production' and sent it out in the past 2 years?

I am saying at least a 50% chance.

[GTown_Dave]

So it would appear Ryne Sandberg traded in all of his staff-choosing chips for Larry Bowa, & r00b gets to pick the rest ... resulting in the shocking decision to stick w/ mostly regulars & retreads. Hall of Fame Second Baseman works his way through the Minor Leagues to become the FO's bitch. Inspirational. Viva Juan Samuel.

[Phillibuster]

GTown: Eh. I'd be willing to believe that Sandberg would be interested in sticking mostly with the guys who were there for at least one year. He's got to have a level of comfort with them at this point, and there may legitimately not be anybody else who he'd actually prefer to have at any of the other coaching positions.

Not every good player is a good coach after all... And Sandberg also played with a lot of not-good players.

[GTown_Dave]

... there may legitimately not be anybody else who he'd actually prefer to have at any of the other coaching positions.

Always possible, & perhaps even more disappointing.

[MG]

Here is another question - Does Juan Samuel have a watch like Bluto in 'Animal House' that is set to a completely random time and basically useless on helping to time pitcher's time to the plate?

[Conway Twitty]

I thought I read that Sammy was a longtime buddy of Sandberg, which is why I expected him back. At least he won't do as much damage at 1B.

[Conway Twitty]

Michael Young played SS the other nite. Rube loves that kind of versatility. Might be next year's RH-RF "power" bat.

[Dragon]

Not getting worked up over who stays or goes as coaches on the team. What we need is talent on the field.

[Phillibuster]

Anybody think Amaro might be interested in taking a DFA flyer on Alex Castellanos (currently of the Dodgers)?

Hits right-handed, high-power, can stand somewhere in the outfield corners and look pretty?

[Looking ahead 2014]

Nepp way to nail that !

[Willard Preacher]

'buster, I'm firmly in the camp of "take a flyer on anyone who is even a marginal upgrade over the likes of Mayberry, Collier, Gillies, Hernandez and Mini Mart (who you just know is probably already on his way to Clearwater)."

In that vein, yeah, take a flyer in Castellanos. Hell, take a flyer on the LAD batboy if he looks like he could hit the ball out of the infield.

[Phillibuster]

WP: It's tough to say he's an upgrade, at least yet. He hit with power in the minors, but he hasn't done terribly well in (very limited) service time in the bigs, and you'd have to think there's a reason LAD are releasing a kid with 5 years of team control left, despite an ISO of over .200 in both majors and minors.

[Willard Preacher]

I'm surprised I haven't seen any real vitriolic reaction to the Rollins piece on Phillies.com (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20131015&content_id=62974544&c_id=phi)

I'm not gonna bash him for saying that he "turns it on" when games mean something, but even in a season where there were an absolute ton of meaningless games, I'd expect more than "252 with 36 doubles, two triples, six home runs, 39 RBIs, 65 runs scored, 22 stolen bases and a career-low .667 on-base-plus-slugging percentage this season. He ranked 12th out of 17 qualifying shortstops in OPS and 131st out of 140 qualifying players."

And I'm not so sure how much of a "cinch" those 434 PA's are next year if that's the same guy we get coming out of Spring Training, either.

[Willard Preacher]

"...and you'd have to think there's a reason LAD are releasing a kid with 5 years of team control left, despite an ISO of over .200 in both majors and minors."

'buster, I'm sure that Crawford, Puig, Kemp, Ethier, et al, may also have something to do with it.

Not to say that Castallanos is an upgrade to anyone, really, but the chances of him being an upgrade over those guys, as opposed to Ruf, Mayberry, Collier, Gillies & Hernandez is probably just sliiiiiiightly better.

[Willard Preacher]

*worse (but I think you get where I was going with that)

Damn, is our 40 man roster ever depressing.

I'll be curious to see what RAJ does with all of these holes he's opening up. Could it be that he actually has a [gulp] plan?

[Phillibuster]

WP: Sure, but if he's not bad, why not at least flip him for something else, instead of DFAing him when you pick up an older, less-powerful corner outfield that the Mets threw out?

[Willard Preacher]

'buster, fair question...

[MG]

Preacher - zolecki points out what has been mentioned on here for a while. The Phils are stuck with JRoll unless he likes where he might be traded and forced into a situation where things could get incredibly ugly next year if they bench him so his option doesn't vest. Can't see JRoll being a guy who would be a good teammate if the later scenario plays out either.

[MG]

Not sure what is more annoying - Dodgers antics or the Cardinals getting so upset by it and their self-righteousness that borders on douchiness.

[Willard Preacher]

MG, it's not going to end well. There's only one real viable outcome that would qualify as "win/win" - JRoll significantly outperforms 2013, shows signs of his previous self and helps the team to a marked improvement to build on for 2015 and his last season here (playoffs would be a bonus...).

Any other scenario only has JRoll underperforming, which is extremely complex. If he does so to the point they bench him, get ready for infighting and a nasty back half of 2014. If they don't bench him, he easily achieves those 434 PA's and we're now clearly stuck with a an untradeable player with a documented decline (who is also blocking other options for 2014/2015).

I love Jimmy as a Phillie, but that article just left a sour taste in my mouth, especially about how he will not budge on his NTC as he's chasing Phillie club records(along not really "dialing in" unless the games have some meaning - alarming to consider when no one really views the Phillies as contenders in 2014 as of yet) I'm just preparing for a tumultuous year with JRoll and hope that I'm proven very, very wrong.

[PLM]

Whats wrong with Hernandez?

[Willard Preacher]

"Not sure what is more annoying - Dodgers antics or the Cardinals getting so upset by it and their self-righteousness that borders on douchiness."

Put me down for the latter. Throw in McCarver's holier-than-thou schtick and I think I'm actually pulling for the Dodgers because they inflame these insufferable b8stards.

[Willard Preacher]

"Whats wrong with Hernandez?"

Nothing, as long as you don't view him as an OF solution...

[awh™]

"WP: It's tough to say he's an upgrade, at least yet. He hit with power in the minors, but he hasn't done terribly well in (very limited) service time in the bigs, and you'd have to think there's a reason LAD are releasing a kid with 5 years of team control left, despite an ISO of over .200 in both majors and minors."

Buster, here's a blog post on Castellanos being released:

http://lasordaslair.com/2013/10/17/dodgers-dfa-castellanos-acquire-minor-league-fodder-mike-baxter/

Writer's opinion:

"If I had to guess why the Dodgers made this move I would probably think it was because Castellanos is blocked at every outfield position. The Dodgers don’t have room for him at the major league level. Although with all the injuries to the Dodger outfield you would think the Dodgers may need him. But the club was never going to give him a chance. It’s a shame. I think the Dodgers let one get away on this one."

[GTown_Dave]

Good news!

Kevin Cooney: "Farewell, John Lannan. Refused outright assignment - now a free agent."

[Willard Preacher]

GTown, where do I put my $150 that he pitches a CGSO against the Phils next year? Probably breaks Utley's hip in the process.

[Juums]

Hey, look! Vic's back to switch-hitting. And in his first AB, he weakly grounded to Prince Fielder.

That's not indicative of anything, I'm sure.

[GBrettfan]

WP: I hadn't seen that piece on Rollins. Thanks for the link,

I wondered at times during the season how much the losing affected guys. I think what Rollins expresses is an understanding of human nature. There are the exceptions, the Chase Utleys, who only have one speed. Many people perform better with an extra rush of adrenalin and an extra motivation. It's my feeling that while some players are professionals who always come ready to play, nevertheless, when it really counts, they reach inside and find something extra. Conversely, when it doesn't mean anything, they might lose some energy. I like what Michael Young said about playing for pride, but I do think it has to be harder to get pumped up when the team is mired in a losing season.

But yes, we need more from Rollins. Certainly maximum effort, since he's not getting any younger.

[PLM]

Oh ok probably not right away i mean he may improve on CF to be a 3rd stringer. Otherwise i view him as a possibly more than adequate backup to Chase.

[PLM]

Give me .260/10HR's/.340 OBP and 20 SB's Jimmy.

[Willard Preacher]

PLM, I agree entirely. I'm bullish on Hernandez, but only on the condition that the put him where, you know, they signed him to play! I'd like to see them upgrade the OF by a considerable degree, to alleviate these notions that playing utility/young middle IFer's out of position somehow passes for acceptable baseball management. It all starts with the OF and the dominoes should fall after that.

[GTown_Dave]

Preacher: The CGSO is almost certain. Keeping my fingers crossed it's Martinez that Lannan injures, however.

[GBrettfan]

Wow, Cabrera was a dead duck there. Shouldn't have gone home.

[GTown_Dave]

Also, Rollins checked out of the team concept awhile ago. If nothing else, Bowa's return will make that situation interesting come '14.

[Fatalotti]

It's a good thing Cabrera can kill the ball, because he's absolutely dreadful at EVERYTHING ELSE.

[norbertods]

Not getting worked up over who stays or goes as coaches on the team. What we need is talent on the field.

Posted by: Dragon | Thursday, October 17, 2013 at 05:28 PM

This.

[Juums]

Another PA by Vic, another weakly hit grounded to the right side.

Ho hum.

[GBrettfan]

I hope you're wrong about Rollins, GTown.

[GBrettfan]

Dragon "What we need is talent on the field" - Damn straight, skippy!

[Dickie Thong]

> Hey, look! Vic's back to switch-hitting. And in his first AB,
> he weakly grounded to Prince Fielder.
>
> Posted by: Juums

Gives me flashbacks to the last out of the '09 WS.

[Steve]

Fodder for another thread, but did anyone see this? Michael Martinez is back... http://www.philliedelphia.com/2013/10/phillies-sign-free-agent-infielder-michael-martinez.html

[bullit]

vic is still a bonehead. i can't remember if he was "dumb" or "dumber." i don't miss him or pence for a second.

[MG]

Mini-Mart is the Phils' herpes. He reappears too frequently, causes embarrassment, and no one is a fan of when he inevitably reappears.

[MG]

If Lannan has health-related questions still lingering, he isn't getting a guaranteed deal.

Otherwise I could see him getting a guaranteed MLB deal at ~$1-1.5M where he competes for a starting job/long man roster spot or one of those minor/major deals where he competes for a roster spot.

Pity the AL team foolish enough to sign him and think he can be a 5th starter.

[MG]

Actually wish Lannan would have accepted an assignment. Stashing him at Lehigh to start the year would have been a nice depth piece for an organization that might have some real organizational starting depth issues at the beginning of the year.

[bay_area_phan]

From the linked article:

"Martinez is never, ever going to go away. However, Martinez showed improvement in 2013. After hitting .174 in 2012, Martinez hit .175 in 2013."

Pretty amusing -- although I think the writer needs to learn about this revoluntionary new grammatical concept called a pronoun.

[PLM]

Re-signed Mini Mart they did.

[Iceman]

"Also, Rollins checked out of the team concept awhile ago."

I love how this just goes completely unchallenged.

[GTown_Dave]

This Tweet about sums up the state of things:

"Phillies re-sign Michael Martinez. Despite the Flyers' 1-7 start, Ruben Amaro Jr. refuses to be outdone as worst GM in Philly."

[Unikruk]

How about Pedro? Could we sign him just to bean our enemies and throw their bench coaches to the ground?

[Fatalotti]

Yep bullit, the Phillies were much better off without Victorino's .294/.351/.451 line and above average defense.

[The Truth Injection]

Iceman: Why bother at this point?

[Edmundo]

Preacher: The CGSO is almost certain. Keeping my fingers crossed it's Martinez that Lannan injures, however.

Oh come on, be real. The absolute mehness that is Lannan supercedes any "jinx". It is simply not possible for Lannan to pitch a SO at this point.

Of course he did throw his shutout in 2009, so maybe he is due.

Pendantic alert: CGSO is redundant.

[Meyer]

Resigning Michael Martinez was a no brainer.

[Edmundo]

Nicely played, Meyer. :)

[NEPP]

Okay I'm done with this team till Rube is gone.

[cut_fastball]

Edmundo - Nice word. However, "Pendantic" is spelled "pedantic" (I did not know what it meant, so I had to look it up).

[Sil]

Mini will never go away, unless someone shoots him or something.

[jr]

Glad to see Perkins show up in the AFL. He wasn't on the original list. With the possible exception of Dugan I think he has a good chance to be a ML OFer.

[LorecorE]

jr: do you mean that you think Perkins has the best chance of being a mlb OF aside from Dugan?

I'd probably rank:

Tocci
Altherr
Cozens

all above Perkins.

god our OF prospects suck.

[GTown_Dave]

Edmundo: It is possible to pitch a complete game which is not a SO, & possible to shut out an opponent while not registering a CG.