Should Phillies have outbid White Sox for Downs?

The White Sox on Thursday agreed to a one-year, $3.75 million deal with left-handed reliever Scott Downs. It's a very low-risk move for one of the game's top relievers over the last six seasons, and it's a bit puzzling that the Phillies didn't make a push.

Downs has a 2.33 ERA since 2007, and though he struggled down the stretch with Atlanta in 2013 after being traded to the Braves from the Angels, he still finished the season with a 2.49 ERA.

Over the last six seasons, the 37-year-old Downs has a lower ERA than every single reliever except Mariano Rivera and Joe Nathan. He's been worth 5.7 WAR -- the same as Huston Street and Jim Johnson and a notch below Joaquin Benoit.

And all Downs found was one-year, $3.75 million with a $4.25 million vesting option for 2015.

Topping the White Sox' offer would have been a good way for the Phillies to improve the bullpen. As it stands, the opening day 'pen figures to include Jonathan Papelbon, Brad Lincoln, Jake Diekman and Antonio Bastardo, with B.J. Rosenberg, Justin De Fratus, Ethan Martin, Joe Savery and Rule 5 pick Kevin Munson battling for the final three jobs.

There was certainly one spot to carve out for Downs, especially with the Phils not knowing what a post-PED Bastardo will look like. 

Ruben Amaro Jr. has given out exclusively short-term deals this offseason, so it's strange that more of a push wasn't made for Downs. Had his AAV been the same amount over three years, then it would be understandable to pass. But this was a chance to efficiently boost the bullpen and push yourself a little closer to contention, and it sure feels like a missed opportunity.

Comments

[MG]

I thought this offseason has been a disaster because the Phils have gotten older, haven't gotten better/more competitive for next year, and stuck with yet another 2 guys who are 30+ for multiple years.

What is the strategic direction or outlook the team has pursued next year?

- Realistically (say a minimum of 40-50%) have a good shot at winning in the upper 80s and contending for a playoff spot? Nope

- Gotten younger? Nope

- Improved the three 3 worst areas of the team so far from last year (bullpen, bench, back end of the rotation)? Not so far.

- Opened the way for some of the younger players to win a spot on Opening Day and see what they have? Even answer no on this with the Frandsen resigning and signing Nieves

Literally the only thing the Phils haven't done this offseason is forfeit a draft pick.

Maybe you can argue they already have a ton of sunk costs on underperforming assets and they are just playing out the cards they are dealt while keeping a certain level of operating income. That is the closest you can come to the Phils have a 'strategy.'

It is let the bean counters come up with a financial target and hope you hit even though there isn't really a strategy behind it.

[MG]

Even though I disagreed with it because of who they acquired, even last their was a 'strategy' to hope that the pitching would rebound somewhat from a mediocre '11 to compensate for a mediocre offense.

Amaro said as much and why their biggest financial commitments last were to pitching (Adams $6M, Lannan $2.5 but possibly $5M if he hit incentives, Durbin). Amaro doubled-downed on pitching yet again.

It backfired on him terribly due to Halladay not rebounding and Adams being a dud but it was a coherent strategy.

[The Truth Injection]

bap: Sure it's a semantics issue but when you say this: "But I nailed my Pirates prediction (even if they didn't actually win the division)." you are wrong.

MG: Do you think Brad Lincoln is worse than what we had in the bullpen last year?

And you hated Lannan and were positive on Hernandez coming in. How do you not view an upgrade then?

[MG]

TTI - No I liked both the Lincoln and Hernandez moves in general but they are going to move the dial one way or another. There incremental at best.

Lincoln is likely better than a scrub like Robles, JC Ramirez, or L. Garcia.

Phils didn't have a 4th/5th starter right now and signing someone else was almost a sheer necessity. I do like Hernandez's upside more than Lannan but that isn't saying much either.

[Redburb]

"Opened the way for some of the younger players to win a spot on Opening Day and see what they have? Even answer no on this with the Frandsen resigning and signing Nieves"

Which, pray tell, younger players are you referring to? There are no young players in AAA that are good enough to win a spot on the opening day roster.

[MG]

Last spring I did buy into the hope especially early on that Halladay and Howard would rebound to some level of their pre-injured forms.

Halladay was arguably the worst starter in NL cut short by injury and Howard had an injury-plagued, unproductive season.

[MG]

C. Hernandez and Rupp although Hernandez doesn't play 3B. I thought they simply wasted $2M+ on bringing in Nieves and resigning Frandsen and could have gotten comparable guys on minor league deals.

[Redburb]

Cameron Rupp has 98 games above Clearwater. Let's cool the jets on him being anything due to the fact that his sample size is way too small with advanced competition.

[bay_area_phan]

"Sure it's a semantics issue but when you say this: 'But I nailed my Pirates prediction (even if they didn't actually win the division).' you are wrong."

Sheesh. You guys are really going to deny me a chance to gloat on a technicality? Would it be better if, instead of saying "I nailed my Pirates prediction," I had said, "Sure, they didn't quite win the division as I had predicted, but I did predict their ascension to playoff status?"

[MG]

Rupp might be worse than replacement. Phils have no idea but they have this misplaced love for journeyman catchers who are washed up apparently.

Even Schneider's corpse was resigned in '11 after a horrendous year that year and instead of being awful in '11 he was just at replacement.

Would the Phils have been better off given those ~100 PAs to Kratz instead in '12? Almost certainly.

Rather find out about Rupp though than the $1.125 + incentives they wasted on Nieves.

Signing Marson was fine and they did need another catcher.

[Redburb]

"Rupp might be worse than replacement. Phils have no idea but they have this misplaced love for journeyman catchers who are washed up apparently."

MG, you have just described pretty much every backup catcher around the league.

Listen, I don't know how bad/good Rupp will be. But advocating to give him a backup role on the MLB club based on little to no knowledge of him against stiffer competition just to save a million or so bucks is pretty foolish.

[Juums]

Ah, yes. We're going to be debating the Nieves signing all season, if only because it's a debatable question and both sides can muster decent arguments in favor of their respective positions.

I'll just add that MLBTR reports Kurt Suzuki -- one of the remaining good options for a quasi-platoonmate with Chooch -- just signed with the Twins for a year with $2.75MM in base pay plus an unspecified amount of incentives. Be interesting to see how his season turns out up north.

[bay_area_phan]

Testing . . . testing. What happened to my last post?

[bay_area_phan]

Well, what I said in the post that just got lost was that I certainly wouldn't advocate just handing the backup catcher role to Rupp without seeing what he does in spring training. But I also wouldn't advocate just handing the backup catcher role to a fungible AAAA player. Yet that is exactly what the Phillies have done by giving a guaranteed contract to a fungible AAAA player in Nieves.

[Redburb]

I guess I'm just confused why (and there have been quite a few posters on here) someone would advocate just giving the job to Rupp. He hasn't played a full season above A+ and what he has shown in his limited career isn't anything to write home about. There are glowing reports about his ability to handle a pitching staff, and while that's all well and good, it's still not a tangible skill especially at the minor league level.

[PhillyRhetoric]

The Giants just DFA'd Eric Surkamp, a 26-year old lefty who actually has decent numbers in the minors (and awful ones in very limited MLB time).

I know he can't pinch-hit like Savery or be the 5th-string first baseman, but he could provide spot starter depth and possible eat middle innings of relief as a lefty. Had surgery a few years ago. Seems to have more upside than Savery.

One Giants fan thinks a change of scenery might do him right...

http://covechatter.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/surkamp-pill-on-the-outs/

BAP, you know anything about this guy?

[GTown_Dave]

There is no better possible opportunity for allowing a player like Rupp extended MLB "on-the-job training" than w/ a team that has absolutely zero prospect of competing for a Postseason berth. He could bat .000 & make 80 errors, who cares? At least then you know for sure. Nieves is a total waste.

[bittel]

Why is Diekman being lumped in by BAP and others with Rosenberg? Diekman continued his new-found dominance right up until the season closed.

Aside from being completely unable (and I mean completely) to field his position, I see no reason not to be hope about him.

26K, 4BB in his last six weeks.

[GTown_Dave]

Maybe you can argue they already have a ton of sunk costs on underperforming assets and they are just playing out the cards they are dealt while keeping a certain level of operating income. That is the closest you can come to the Phils have a 'strategy.'

I feel this is likely the case, & consider it the second-worst path the club could have taken (next to piling on the FA contracts of even more brittle, ancient players right up to the luxury tax limit).

Of course the Phillies would never do the latter unless their projected income was already above said limit, so in a practical sense the team did choose the worst path. The idiots in charge are nothing if not steadfast in their ignorant ways.

[GTown_Dave]

Also, multiple beat writers are Tweeting that Valle cleared waivers (shocking), & has been outrighted by the Phillies to AAA (again, shocking). It must be comforting to know that the Phillies will always want you, even when no other franchise in baseball does.

[Iceman]

BAP: "I nailed my Pirates prediction."

BAP's Pirates prediction: Division champs

Reality: Wild card team

My grade: If we're going by clout's standard, then sure, BAP aces the exam. But if we're talking about 'nailing the prediction,' which is the standard BAP set for himself, the best you could say is that he's half right.

I wonder if BAP's kid came home and said he "nailed the book report," then showed he had a 50%, that the grade would be acceptable to him.

GRADE: F

[Steve]

"Maybe you can argue they already have a ton of sunk costs on underperforming assets and they are just playing out the cards they are dealt while keeping a certain level of operating income"

Playing the cards they are dealt? They're the ones who dealt the cards

[bay_area_phan]

"Why is Diekman being lumped in by BAP and others with Rosenberg? Diekman continued his new-found dominance right up until the season closed."

It's all right there in my 12:13 post.

[bay_area_phan]

Philly: Surkamp's name has been on the Giants' radar for a long time. I think he's your basic soft-tossing lefty. He has certainly put up nice numbers while playing in leagues that are pretty rough on pitchers. I agree that he would be worth a shot.

[Redburb]

Actually I think the fact that Valle cleared waivers had more to do with the fact that he only had 1 option year left. If a team thought they could fix his issues, they most likely think they need more than 1 year.

Remember he is only 23. There's nothing wrong with keeping him within the system.

[dpat]

TTI- MG is right about this off-season. For the most part it has been a disaster. I'm not picking on you but can you not see that? And while RAJ has some valid reasons for not doing what many here would have liked him to, it still does not excuse him. As you pointed out, his poor job will benefit the next GM but won't help next season.

[NEPP]

On Diekman, we should totally assume his 38 IP at the MLB level last year were the real Diekman and not the 30 IP at AAA (where he was atrocious) or the other 400 IP in the minors where his BB/9 is over 5.

That 38 IP is definitely the best sample size to base projections on...no way he just had a hot streak.

[aksmith]

I think people are missing the most obvious upshot of Valle clearing waivers and not being claimed by any other team in baseball FOR FREE.

Apparently, there was no reason to lose Rosin in the Rule 5 draft. Since there was zero interest in Valle for free, it would have been safe to leave him off the 40 man roster, since nobody would have claimed him for 50,000 dollars.

Maybe a marginally competent judge of talent would have known the level of interest in his own players.

[bittel]

It's the most recent sample, NEPP. If you're not going to be open to updating your assessments based on recent MLB performance (over a couple of months, in this case), why pay attention to anything an unsuccessful MiLer does at the MLB level? How long should we wait?

Humans can learn. You should know.

[bay_area_phan]

bittel: That's all well & good, but our recent experiences with Mayberry, Worley, and Frandsen serve as friendly reminders that a player's long-term track record is a much better predictor of future results than one second-half hot streak. And that principle rings even more true with a relief pitcher because of the small sample sizes on which any hot streak is based.

Based on his 2nd half performance, Diekman deserves every chance to try to win a bullpen job. No one said he didn't. But it would be foolish to go into 2014 on the assumption that Diekman is now a major league caliber pitcher because, in the 6.5 years before July, 2013, he certainly wasn't.

[NEPP]

Sure, it's definitely important but its still a very small sample size. 38 IP is hitter's equivalent of 150 PA. It's very possible he just had a hot streak so penciling him into a huge bullpen role next year is a bit risky based on his entire career other than that 38 innings.

That's all I'm getting at.

[Willard Preacher]

NEPP, too bad he's not playing Dominican Winter Ball so we could get a better idea...

;)

[NEPP]

true dat!

[jumbo jim nash]

Talking to Orioles about Papelbon, according to Kevin Cooney, and MASN, must eat alot of contract.

[NEPP]

Eat $5 million a year on Pap's contract and go give Balfour his original deal of 2/$15 Million...Save $500K a year.

[Will Schweitzer]

Those piggy banks from the CSN Shop are the ugliest damn things I've ever seen in my life.

If the free agent board is clear of closers by Spring Training and the Orioles or Yankees haven't locked someone up, there might be a chance that Amaro unloads Papelbon.

That might be reason enough to sign Rodney or Balfour.

[CS]

Papelbon, kendrick, and Brown for Gaussman, and urrutia
Sign Balfour
Sign Choo

[bullit]

didn't diekman's improvement coincide with raising his arm slot from sidearm to one that was higher? it apparently enabled him to have a more easily repeatable release point. if so, wouldn't this 38 IP sss take on more significance?

[NEPP]

Possibly...assuming he keeps repeating that new arm slot next year and doesn't revert.

[aksmith]

Can't wait to find out what the Orioles' doctors find when they do a physical on Papelbon.

Of course, they might find a unicorn in his hip joint. That's how likely it is that another GM is brain dead enough to actually trade for Ruben's Folly.

[bittel]

That's all well & good, but our recent experiences with Mayberry, Worley, and Frandsen serve as friendly reminders that a player's long-term track record is a much better predictor of future results than one second-half hot streak.
**********
Not disputing the basic premise. But in Diekman's case, we have a sustained period of excellence that Mayberry and Frandsen never approached. With Worley there was always the feeling that though he was having considerable success, he was nevertheless living on the edge of mediocrity. His stuff wasn't overpowering. Diekman's is. He's got a better chance than the other three of becoming a valuable contributor.

[PhxPhilly]

Generally agree that Downs deal seems reasonable and agree that Phillies do need another established reliever.

Papelbon is only guy who is good. Nobody likes the salary but I'd still rate him as an above average closer.

Adams injured is really bad, especially given how Uehara (who I preferred but ranked similar as great releivers coming back from injury.)

Bastardo begins off missed time and suspension.

And that's it for 'established' guys. So I wanted Frasor, but Downs is similar. If Adams were likely to be back maybe I could be convinced to go with the AAAA guys for the rest.

DeFratus is out of options as is Lincoln so both are locks. Not sure where MAG goes.

But Phillies really could use a known setup guy to leave Bastardo and some Righty as 7th inning guys.

[bay_area_phan]

"But in Diekman's case, we have a sustained period of excellence that Mayberry and Frandsen never approached."

We do? Mayberry's fluke period lasted 3 full months and spanned 179 PAs. Frandsen's last 2+ months and covered 210 PAs. Diekman's good pitching began in August, and covered all of 22 innings & 82 batters faced.

[Mr. Concistency]

"Sure, it's definitely important but its still a very small sample size. 38 IP is hitter's equivalent of 150 PA. It's very possible he just had a hot streak so penciling him into a huge bullpen role next year is a bit risky based on his entire career other than that 38 innings.

That's all I'm getting at.

Posted by: NEPP | Friday, December 20, 2013 at 07:52 PM

NEPP, too bad he's not playing Dominican Winter Ball so we could get a better idea...

;)

Posted by: Willard Preacher | Friday, December 20, 2013 at 07:56 PM"

Yeah, I thought the same thing myself. That DWL sample size is so important we should dismiss any track record - even an MLB track record - up to that point.

[bullit]

Dragon usually gets the last word here, but i haven't seen him for 3 days. i hope he's ok.

[CS]

Found this trade idea on a baltimore site, discuss.

Phillies Receive Eduardo Rodriguez and J.J. Hardy
Orioles Receive Jonathan Papelbon, Cody Asche, Cesar Hernandez, and 6 MM.

http://camdendepot.blogspot.com/2013/12/acquiring-jonathan-papelbon-dealing-out.html

[clout]

I want to know more about Diekman's "sustained period of excellence."

[clout]

aksmith: Excellent point about Rosin. He doesn't have a lot of upside, but he's way more likely to have an MLB career than Valle.

[bittel]

The point is: when Diekman was pitching well (about half a season), he was pitching a a level near the top of his position league-wide. Few were better.

Show me the 2-3 months where Frandsen or Mayberry were in contact with the top producers in the sport at their respective positions. Maybe it exists, but I just don't remember it.

[bay_area_phan]

bittel: You have a short memory. Mayberry had a .931 OPS in the 2nd half of 2011. Over a full season, that OPS would have ranked him 6th in the National League, and 10th in the majors, that year.

Kevin Frandsen hit .338 over 210 PAs in 2012. Had he done that over a full season, he would have won the NL batting title that year.

[Redburb]

Will Rosin make the Dodgers Opening Day roster? And stay there all year?

[jr]

Repeat of post from weeks ago. See what the o,s want to take Pap,take whoever they offer and move on.

Phillies Receive Eduardo Rodriguez and J.J. Hardy And what are we going to do with J.J.?

[CS]

JJ Hardy to take over at 3B if possible with Cody Asche in the trade and Franco still in AAA.

[CS]

Choo goes to the Ranges on a 7 year deal. Still wondering of Papelbon and Brown packaged together is our last hope at hot stove action for the phillies.

[DPat]

I would not part with Franco under any circumstances. Asche is another story.

[bay_area_phan]

Wait. The Orioles are going to give us their starting shortstop, who hit 25 homeruns last year & has one of the more team-friendly contracts in all of baseball, AND they're going to throw in the No. 5 prospect in their system? And all for a closer who was throwing 89 MPH at the end of last year? Sounds great.

[NEPP]

Good thing he held out for Ellsbury dollars...that only cost him $10 million.

[aksmith]

NEPP - For that 10 million lost, he gets to live in Texas, a much nicer place than NY with a much lower cost of living. And he gets to live in a state with no income tax, so the only income that will be taxed is his away games. I'm pretty sure those two things could make up the difference right there. In fact, he could actually be making more net money than he would have in NY.

[NEPP]

Personally, I would disagree on Texas being nicer but to each his own.

The income tax thing though does probably balance it out though given NY's high state income tax.

[Earl The Burl]

Texas is a "much nicer" place to live than NY? Obviously, everything is a matter of opinion, but living in searing heat, surrounded by McMansions and backwarda$$sed dunderheads sounds less than ideal.

[TheMick]

Posted by Clout:

One thing that's fun about baseball is sometimes everything works out just right. How many posters here expected the Pirates to do what they did last season? Answer: None.

It is certainly a longshot, but despite what the Amaro-haters and always-negative posters say, it really is possible that the Phils are contenders in 2014.

********************************************************************************************

100% on the money about the 2013 Pirates. After 20 straight losing seasons it's doubtful anyone here thought they'd win 94 games last year. BAP says he predicted they'd win the division. I can't or wouldn't call him a liar as I didn't follow BL every day last year, but I doubt even the Pirates biggest supporters saw 94 W's.

With regards to this years Phils, I do believe everything has to break right for them to have a chance at contending. Do I think it's likely...no I don't, but I don't rule out the possibility because baseball is a funny game.

I know I've been critical of Amaro and if Clout wants to read that as me being negative, that's his prerogative. I call em like I see em, but I'm by no means a baseball expert. I am however a huge Phillies fan and would like nothing more than to be wrong in my assessment of the 2014 Phillies.

With two wild cards watering down the regular season it's likely the trend of the chalk not winning the WS will continue. The 86 Cardinals only won 83 games and captured a WFC, and that was with only one wild card.

I applaud Clout's optimism...it's been too easy being negative the last couple years with the moves Amaro's made. {drumroll please} But this year on March 31st, the Phillies travel to Arlington to take on the Texas Rangers tied for 1st place in the NL East with a 0-0 record. It's one of the things I love about baseball...hope springs eternal every year. Now I feel like a friggin commercial for MLB...lol.

[aksmith]

Have you guys even been to Texas? Depending on where you go, it's very cosmopolitan.

I don't like NY City very much. And apparently, Choo much preferred Texas to NY in general, according to reports.

But anyone who thinks NY is nicer than TX should definitely spend some time there. Yeah, it gets hotter. But it's certainly nicer in the Winter. The people are very nice, in general. And it's not like the insane clown posse from Duck Dynasty lives there.

If you don't like cretinous, bible thumping governors, then Texas isn't for you. But frankly, I don't have a dog in the fight between fascists and socialists. Guess which one NY is.

[NEPP]

I'd prefer NYC over anywhere in Texas...FWIW.

Maybe Austin to visit but the heat would kill even that for me.

[DPat]

"Wait. The Orioles are going to give us their starting shortstop, who hit 25 homeruns last year & has one of the more team-friendly contracts in all of baseball, AND they're going to throw in the No. 5 prospect in their system? And all for a closer who was throwing 89 MPH at the end of last year? Sounds great."

Yeah too great. How does that trade really benefit the O's

[aksmith]

I guess that living in Las Vegas has made me impervious to heat. Heat is why they invented air conditioning.

I am not a fan of NYC for the same reason I'm not a fan of Tokyo. Interesting places to visit, but so crowded I felt like a sardine in a tin. And then there's the language barrier . . . in NYC.

I'm guessing that if Seinfeld is your favorite sitcom of all time, you would prefer NY. If you think it was more annoying than herpes, you prefer Texas.

[Bubba]

San Antonio is very nice, but not a MLB city.

Best friend lives near DFW airport, nice enough area.

Galveston is good, but it is the big time for humidity .

All things considered , I'd rather be in Philadelphia!

[Dickie Thong]

Reportedly, Choo is a big fan of the Super Big Gulp™ which swayed him in his decision to choose to Texas over New York.

[Conway Twitty]

aksmith: Did they air-condition the golf courses in Vegas? Lighted courses for nite play would be nice.

[clout]

Re: That proposed O's trade. The reason it looks lopsided player-wise is that Hardy is a one-year player. He's free agent after this season and will get a huge contract at age 31 if he comes close to what he did last season.

So what it amounts to is Paps, Asche & Hernandez for Rodriguez & 1 year of Hardy. I'm no fan of Asche, but he can make an MLB team and Hernandez can be an MLB regular IMHO. So you gotta love Rodriguez if you want to do the trade.

I like Rodriguez, but don't love him. He turns 21 in April. He's a LHP who throws 92-94. His slider and changeup are improving, although command of them is a problem, and he's a groundball pitcher.

He was so-so in his first taste of AA ball last season, but young for the league. His command and that 3.6 BB/9 from Double A will have to improve.

He projects as a #3 or #4 and could easily end up in the bullpen (or not making it at all).

Is he worth Hernandez & Asche? I would say no, but that's because I like Hernandez maybe more than I should.

[aksmith]

Conway - No air conditioned golf courses that I know of. But a lot of them have nice shade trees and anyone familiar with the weather is out early and off the course before the sun gets egg frying hot.

[The Truth Injection]

O's wouldn't do that trade AND Amaro shouldn't do that trade.

[pPp]

Only the dumbest of dumb cosmopolitan hicks would chose NYC over Texas.

[NEPP]

***Is he worth Hernandez & Asche? I would say no, but that's because I like Hernandez maybe more than I should.***

I think both Hernandez and Asche could top out as 2nd division starters...which is perfect for the Phillies over the next 3-4 years as that's what we are now.

Franco might have to go to 1B to replace Howard sooner rather than later so that's not even an issue.

@aksmith: Its purely personal preference. Personally, for me, my ideal locations are New England (VT and MA are both awesome places to live for me...I love NYC so I wouldn't mind living there either. If I were a ballplayer and had that type of cash, my top choices would probably be as follows:

PHI (for obvious reasons)
NYC (always something to do)
BOS (lived there for a while and loved it...would move back in a second if I could find a job there)
SF (great city too as I'm sure bap can attest to)
SEA (awesome city...lived there 3 years and loved it)

That's just me though.

[cut_fastball]

Philadelphia - with all of its flaws - is a wonderful compromise between:

* culture - world-renowned Art Museum; Orchestra; restaurants!

* academia - Penn, and all the other fine schools in the greater Philadelphia area

* high-end manufacturing - Glaxosmithkline and other pharma meld beautifully with area colleges and universities

* sports! (disclaimer... the benign neglect of our Phillies and yes, the 76ers has been excruciating... uuugghhh)

* craft beer! What other city could pull off a "Beer Week"??!!

NY and San Francisco are out for cost of living reasons; I'm not cosmopolitan enough to extol the glories of Seattle; and Boston is just, well, Boston. Perhaps I just don't get it. I need to run to the stare - where are my khakis?

Texas gets an eternal free pass as long as Austin remains Austin. I have no idea about Arlington, TX ambiance. Just my $0.02.

[Sophist]

Chicago

[cut_fastball]

Sophist - ya punked me. Chicago is really "neck and neck" with Philadelphia in so many of the areas I outlined (Goose Island, any one?). Kudos.

[NEPP]

Chicago is too far from the ocean. Lake Michigan doesnt cut it for me.

Also, their pizza sucks.

[NEPP]

From MLBTradeRumors: A source close to Choo says the outfielder considered the Rangers his "clear first choice,

Now that could obviously be just good PR on his part or it could be accurate. Interesting.

[Chris in VT]

VT isn't exactly oceanfront property, NEPP.

But I agree I'd take NYC over Texas any day of the week. I love Austin, but the rest of Texas? No thanks.

[NEPP]

We're 3 hrs from the ocean and we have a nice lake...and there are plenty of fringe benefits to the area in addition to that.

[docjoe]

RAJ should call Baltimore now. Send Pap to the orioles pay some of his salary and sign Balfour for 2 years. Either way will cost the phils around 13 million and we can rid ourselves of Pap. RAJ came out and said Pap lost velocity because he wasn't pitching in meaningful games last year. That is enough for me to say goodbye to Pap asap

[Conway Twitty]

aksmith: If you're in the shade trees, you're not playing very good golf. :)

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Give me $130 million dollars to play with in NYC over Texas any day.

[derekcarstairs]

Another vote for Chicago.

[bullit]

"i'll take manhattan, the bronx and staten island, too"

[bittel]

Mayberry's numbers were better during that second half of the season than I recall. Thanks for the refresher.

Diekman's numbers were better, I'd say, particularly for the short sample of seven weeks where he pitched to a sub .750 WHIP, but your point is taken. Caution.

[bullit]

first pitchers and catchers arrive at spring training in 51 days.

[MG]

"While GM Jon Daniels would have also been comfortable re-signing Nelson Cruz to a shorter deal, the agreement shows that MLB executives prefer to have their rosters complete before Christmas, Crasnick says"

That is a depressing thought if the current Phils' roster is what the roster will largely be Opening Day and Amaro failed to improve the bullpen, bench, or end of the starting rotation.

Like knowing you got socks for Christmas and having to feign any level of excitement over it.

Really the only stories that really interest me right now in spring training are how MAG actually looks on the mound and what Franco does. Even Howard's numbers I will take with a grain of salt this year too.

[MG]

The frightening thing about Philly is their numbers is at the end of the 10s/early 20s. Selling the gas works (and that entire process has stank to high heaven but because the Philly Inquirer hires newbies and nobody with any connections it largely goes undercovered) and a few other city-owned items will buy the city some time due to the cash infusion and maybe even make the short-term budget numbers look good.

Man not reforming DROP or retiree costs in general, almost no funding for retiree healthcare costs (that is what sank Detroit even more than than the pension obligations), and a tax base that is a huge mess because of the amount of non-profits and untaxable land in the city.

[Papelbon]

I just want to win. Fans werent making too big of a deal about Lidges' contract when he was here. Whats up with that?

[Bubba]

Lidge was a stand up guy, and his image was canonized by the last pitch thrown in 2008.

When you match that , Paps, we will grant you immunity from contract critique.

[aksmith]

Um, I only know about the shade trees being cool because I was helping other golfers look for their balls?

Actually, I can't even caddy anymore. Two post-surgical shoulders with tendinosis make it impossible to golf or even throw a baseball anymore. MRIs of my shoulders look like the surface of the Moon. And to be truthful, I did spend a lot of time in the trees when I used to golf in the old days.

[Ruben Amaro Jr]

***Two post-surgical shoulders with tendinosis make it impossible to golf or even throw a baseball anymore.***

So, we're thinking 3 years, $24 million with a couple of vesting options. Do you have an Agent I can contact to work out the details?

[NEPP]

From MLBTradeRumors: Mark Mulder is looking for a minor league deal with incentives if he makes the major league club. He's worked out for the Giants, Padres, Diamondbacks, Angels, and Phillies over two sessions and the second session he improved his velocity from 88 to 92 mph.

If Mulder is healthy and hitting sitting 92 mph on the gun, why not throw a minor league deal with a ST invite at him? If he fails, its no loss and if he slips into the 5th rotation spot, that'd be sweet too. Maybe he does and even has a solid year where they could flip him for something at the deadline. Stranger things have happened.

Sure, the odds of that happening are maybe 1 in 20 (at best) but its not like we're bucking for a playoff spot here. Might as well make ST interesting.

[Dickie Thong]

Mulder should go to the Dodgers to reunite with Scully.

[CS]

I actually like the idea of taking a shot at guys like Mulder and other high risks SP on Spring Training invites. Last years idea of just having young guys at AAA worked really well right? Not to mention Paco's pitching style if being used by Mulder is pretty cool.

[NEPP]

I'm for giving almost any veteran a shot as a ST invite...those are zero risk moves and we have literally zero SP depth on our 40 man roster right now.

[NEPP]

Besides, it'll give us something to argue about after one of the ST invites as a good 3 IP in late Feb and half the site says he's clearly good enough to make the rotation.

[GTown_Dave]

Dickie is on fire lately ... & it takes real comedic talent to find anything funny about MLB's current offseason.

[bay_area_phan]

I'm all for bounceback candidates. But Mulder is 9 years removed from his last season with an ERA under 7.00. Still, I'm with NEPP. What the hell. Mulder's 2 or 3 spring training starts (before he got cut) would probably be the most intriguing story line of the Phillies' season.