Cole Hamels' scheduled throwing session Thursday was canceled because of arm fatigue. Hamels was scheduled to throw batting practice, but instead needs to "step back and start over," according to CSNPhilly.com.
Hamels wasn't going to be ready for Opening Day, but now it looks doubtful that he'll pitch in April.
"April is the last thing I want to think about right now," Hamels told reporters. "I would say, right now, we’re just taking it day by day. Ultimately I just want to get back out and get on the mound and see how I’m going to fare there."
If Hamels is out for an extended period of time -- and right now, it's hard to see any way he returns quickly -- the signing of A.J. Burnett morphs from an added bonus for the Phillies to a 1-for-1 swap at the top of the rotation.
Hamels has said he's lost weight and strength and that his arm is tired, not in pain.
“I felt good when I threw my last bullpen [Saturday], everything was great,” Hamels said. “But later that day and the next day, my arm felt fatigued. After 35 pitches, my body felt like I had thrown 1,000.
“I’ve been pushing everything I can to get ready and get back, and I pushed a little too hard. I wasn’t able to recover the way I have to.”
Hamels added that neither an MRI nor a cortisone shot has been deemed necessary.
The Phillies won't need a fifth starter until mid-April, but this now means that they likely must turn to either Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez, David Buchanan, Sean O'Sullivan or Jeff Manship for some late-April starts. That is, unless Jonathan Pettibone or Ethan Martin are recovered from their own arm issues in time.
Hamels joins Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Roy Halladay and Brad Lidge as Phillies in the last few years who've suffered spring training setbacks.
Rube & Co should be fired outright if for no other reason than this absolute refusal to give injured players precautionary MRIs to see if there are underlying issues.
Its gross negligence and I simply do not get it. There is not legitimate defense for their refusal to do it and their treatment of injuries.
How the fvck does one invest literally hundreds of millions of dollars in players and then refuse thousands of dollars in spending on proper medical care for them? You're already paying for the medical insurance? WTF do you not send them for an MRI the moment they complain of issues like this...especially when its your Ace SP complaining of arm issues with his pitching arm? Seriously, can someone, anyone please explain the rationale behind this utter stupidity?
Its not an isolated incident. They have repeatedly gone with the "just rest it and put ice on it" theory with injuries over the past several years. WTF is up with this team, Dr. Ciccotti, and the rest of the training/medical staff???
Fvck, if I hurt myself at my office job, they'd want me to get an MRI to check it out just to make sure there were no major issues. That's what insurance is for...and I could do my job in a fvcking bodycast. Its not like they're paying me tens of millions to throw a ball hard and then ignoring me when I say my arm hurts.
I am so fvcking sick of this crap and it drives me up a fvcking wall.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:27 AM
per b00b, Hamels > Burnett. Hardly a swap.
Posted by: LorecorE | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:31 AM
I don't really know what else there is to say. The team is bad, injured, old, and frankly just boring. And that's before the losing inevitably takes its toll and you start hearing stories midseason about various vaterans being unhappy and wanting out, etc.
All the writing is on the wall that they are going to be one of the worst teams in the league. It's just a matter of whether you want to admit it or not. This is going to be the worst Phillies season since the late 90s, I'm fairly confident. I'm still going to watch, of course, but there's just nothing very interesting or exciting about the team. The team is bad, offers no real hope for the future, and is run by an incompetent front office.
Posted by: Jack | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:38 AM
Leads me to believe they think the Hamels injury will keep him out longer than they're letting on. It's not a coincidence that both stories are coming out at the same time. Burnett is their contingency plan.
Posted by: Steve | Wednesday, February 12, 2014 at 11:51 AM
Posted by: Steve | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:41 AM
"Hamels has said he's lost weight and strength and that his arm is tired, not in pain."
Why is he losing weight? From arm fatigue?
Sounds similar to Halladay's malady. wtf
Posted by: bittel | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:45 AM
NEPP: It's like Groundhog Day with this organization. Howard was fine, Utley was fine, Halladay was fine, Hamels was fine.
You can't believe a single word that comes out of RAJ's mouth, and the same goes for the medical staff and the players.
We have enough of a track record now that we know injuries are way worse than the Phillies spin it. "Setback" is a code word for "don't expect to see him until June"
Posted by: Steve | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:45 AM
@NEPP I posted something similar in the last thread but the colorful language I used wasn't covered up so it was deleted. Your post is spot on. I don't understand what it takes for this team to send a guy for an MRI. If a problem had been identified in November and he needed surgery he'd be four months into rehab by now. But here we sit and we'll wait what, at least a few more weeks? It's a joke, a disgrace, infuriating yet none too surprising.
Posted by: Pblunts | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:46 AM
At this point, it's kind of a rubbernecking/crash-and-burn (alley) mindset. A real meltdown with <70 wins, major public malcontent by the players, huge dump for prospects at the deadline, and a major management shakeup probably represents the best entertainment value we can hope for out of this season. And also the best shot at having a prayer of fielding a competitive team in the next half-decade.
Posted by: fumphis | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:46 AM
If you care about this news because of its impact on the 2014 season, then you are an optimist. Even the rosiest optimist believes the best playoff chance this team has is the 2nd WC. And 1-3 wins will be the difference between playoffs or not. Those missed Hamels starts, whether it's 2, 3, 4 or 15, will be crucial.
If you're a pessimist or maybe a "realist", then this news means nothing except possibly a better draft pick. If it's just two to four starts, it may be the difference between 72 and 75 wins. If Hamels doesn't throw a pitch, it's the difference between 65 wins and 75 wins.
Posted by: Cyclic | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:47 AM
bittel: It sounds to me like Hamels has been dealing with a shoulder/biceps injury since the fall that did not allow him to work out during the offseason. Hence the lost weight and strength. He's not healthy.
Posted by: Steve | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:47 AM
Couple days ago I told Jack i would take the over at 70 Wins. I am no longer offering that.
Posted by: LorecorE | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:48 AM
***If you care about this news because of its impact on the 2014 season, then you are an optimist***
When your highly paid SP is entering his 2nd year of a 6 year, $144 million contract and he's complaining of arm issues...its a bit more of a concern just for 2014.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:50 AM
Money quote by Hamels:
“I had all the tests done and everything checked out,” he said. “Nothing has gone wrong."
No Cole, you haven't had all tests. Unless you are the Phillies medical staff, which apparently doesn't believe in the use of MRI's.
Posted by: pblunts | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:51 AM
I just want this season to be over.
Posted by: Cole Hamels | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:52 AM
i can't believe that a billion dollar organization doesn't have it's own mri machine.
Posted by: bullit | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:52 AM
Phils O/U still set at 76.5 FREE MONEY
Posted by: LorecorE | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:53 AM
I'm also sure that the blood-letting and leeches that the medical staff employs as treatment probably sapped him of his strength.
Posted by: Steve | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:56 AM
BTW, in case anyone argues on "Why get an MRI"...here are some of the things that also occur when a person complains of "bicep tendonitis" as Cole did earlier this off-season:
Shoulder Problems Related to Biceps Tendonitis
Biceps tendonitis often occurs in tandem with other shoulder problems:
•Rotator cuff injury – This type of injury occurs when one of the four tendons (known as the rotator cuff) that attaches muscles to the head of your upper arm bone (humerus) is partially torn or torn into two pieces as a result wear and tear over time or an acute trauma like a fall.
•Arthritis of the shoulder joint – The shoulder joint can be affected by degenerative "wear and tear" arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis (systemic arthritis) or post-traumatic arthritis (arthritis that occurs after a previous injury has healed).
•Shoulder joint tear – Also known as a glenoid labrum tear, the injury happens to the labrum, a soft, fibrous rim of tissue that surrounds the shallow socket of the shoulder blade, known as the glenoid. The labrum is the site where several shoulder ligaments attach. It serves the function of helping to stabilize the shoulder joint.
•Chronic shoulder instability – This can be a result from problems with the structures surrounding the shoulder joint that normally work to keep the ball tight in its socket. If the shoulder joint is loose, it may slide partially out of place — subluxation — or completely out of place —shoulder dislocation.
•Other diseases that cause inflammation of the shoulder joint lining.
MRIs will eliminate pretty much all of those as possibilities...or identify them if there is an underlying issue.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:56 AM
Eh. I can't muster the indignation over this, whether we were lied-to about it or this is honestly just as minor as they're presenting it (though your #2 starter missing a month generally isn't extremely "minor").
I can understand the outrage, just can't contribute to it. It's hard to get that worked up over it unless you think this has seriously decreased their odds of fighting for a playoff berth. Going from "slim-to-none" to "slimmer-to-none" really doesn't qualify, to me.
I still don't think that Burnett was signed as a Hamels replacement, though. If he was, they'd have done it much sooner - like when they were aware that Cole wasn't going to be fully ready for ST. Primarily so it wouldn't give the appearance that it did.
Posted by: Phillibuster | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:56 AM
Something tells me Amaro doesn't let his kids get immunization shots, either.
Posted by: nokwurst | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:56 AM
NEPP-- I agree.
But I'm saying, if you care about this for its impact on 2014, then you are the kind of person who held some belief that the Phillies could surprise and possibly make the playoffs this season.
Posted by: Cyclic | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:56 AM
An ultrasound on Cole's shoulder should suffice.
Posted by: Dr. Michael Ciccotti | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 10:57 AM
a healthy lee/hamels/burnett had me optimistic enough to think they'd be able to stick in enough games to stay in the WC picture.
Now thats even a pipedream.
Posted by: LorecorE | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:00 AM
Cyclic, I will be honest and say that I previously thought that if everything and I mean everything went right, they could maybe get to 85-87 wins and sneak into the playoffs. I didnt think it was likely but I thought it was within the range of believability (say 5% chance). I dont see it that high now.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:01 AM
NEPP, here's your answer:
the results of an MRI can be the sort of thing that shuts a pitcher down. The team does not want the pitcher shut down. Team culture (here and elsewhere) typically pushes players to suck it up and push forward, unless they have bad pain. Players enforce this culture among themselves.
Therefore without bad pain, there's typically no perceived need for an MRI. Nothing hurts, according to Hamels.
So let's say they do an MRI his shoulder. It shows considerable wear, but no tear in tendons/ligaments. What then? What if, a few weeks later, he begins to feel better and is able to pitch, but the MRI has given reasons for considering a complete shutdown and surgery before the wear worsens?
This is why there's no MRI. You want more information, yeah. But they don't, and it makes perverse sense that they don't, see? More information won't necessarily help them make the best decision, since they aren't going to act in the best interest of the player if that means shutting him down before he reaches the point (as with Halladay) where he can't throw another pitch. Crazily, this point of view will hold EVEN IN A CASE WHERE IT IS IN THE TEAM'S OWN BEST LONG-TERM INTEREST to shut him down (as it would be in this case, given their long-term investment in Hamels).
So you don't order the MRI until you have to.
Posted by: bittel | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:02 AM
Lore-- Where can I go make that bet?
Posted by: Cyclic | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:02 AM
This is going to be the worst Phillies season since the late 90s, I'm fairly confident. I'm still going to watch, of course,
________________________________________-
We know JAck. So you can come back here and gloat over and over again how smart you are. Please do us all a favor and get stuck in your boyfriend so you can't get to a computer
Posted by: cut_fastball | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:03 AM
Many internet site have the Phils at 76.5 at last check.
Posted by: bittel | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:04 AM
NEPP @ 1101-- Totally agree.
Posted by: Cyclic | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:05 AM
"he's got a contract. he'll pitch" -- ruben amaro about doc last year
Posted by: bullit | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:07 AM
NEPP: I got bicep tendonitis one time when I was staring lustily at my Freddie Freeman poster for too long....if you catch my drift...
I was beating off to it if you don't
Posted by: Jack | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:07 AM
Bittel: Yeah, I would imagine that's it, in no small part. Especially since, once the MRI information is obtained, they'd have legal liability in certain circumstances. It's arguable that they could even if the MRI isn't performed - but actually doing so removes all doubt.
Posted by: Phillibuster | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:09 AM
Yeah, it would definitely suck to catch a potential early on when its actually fixable rather than eat it completely on several years of a massive contract.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:15 AM
So much for the "if everyone stays healthy..." meme.
Posted by: Dickie Thong | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:16 AM
Seriously...would Ed Wade be a better option for GM right now? Christ.
Posted by: Delaware Avenue | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:18 AM
Maybe I've been on Beerleaguer too long, but it definitely feels fishy to me.
I see a couple scenarios...
-Hamels comes back in late April but it's clear something's off. He doesn't get out right shelled, like Halladay, but 3-4 ER/g, not getting out of the 6th inning. This continues for a few weeks, culminating in him being shut down just before the All Star Break and season ending surgery.
-Late April turns into early June turns into by the All Star Break. Then he has a setback in rehab and gets shut down. Doesn't throw a pitch in 2014.
-Hamels has Crohn's Disease.
Posted by: Cyclic | Thursday, February 13, 2014 at 02:15 PM
Posted by: Cyclic | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:19 AM
Yeah, it would definitely suck to catch a potential early on when its actually fixable rather than eat it completely on several years of a massive contract.
Posted by: NEPP
**********************
Do you disagree that this is the operating principle here? We all agree it's idiotic and shortsighted. But it's the reason you asked for, IMO.
Posted by: bittel | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:20 AM
The setting: RAJ's Clearwater office, overlooking the ball park.
RAJ: Dr. Ciccotti, how did the exam on Cole go?
Dr. Ciccotti: Well, he's obviously in pain. He's obviously feeling fatigued. But I can't tell you more than that unless we do an MRI.
RAJ: MRI? Please don't start in with these newfangled saber stats. We're talking about a pitcher who has 99 wins since 2006. I don't care what his MRI is.
Dr. Ciccotti: No, I don't think you understand . .
RAJ: I mean, I don't care about MRIs. I care about production.
Dr. Ciccotti: But an MRI would really help us figure out what's going on with his shoulder.
RAJ: How can his MRI tell us what's going on with his shoulder? What next? Are you going to show me Chase Utley's UZR to tell me how his knees are doing?
Dr. Ciccotti: I think you're misunderstanding me. An MRI helps us see inside his body so we can diagnose his injury.
RAJ: Just stop it with this sabermetric crap already! I don't need a statistic to see inside Cole Hamels' body. Did you know that he was the MVP of the NLCS AND the World Series? That tells you he's got a big heart. See, I just saw inside his body and I didn't need any sabermetrics to do it.
Dr. Ciccotti: But what does any of this have to do with his health? I don't understand your point.
RAJ: My point is that I don't care what his OPS or W-A-R or MRI is. I just care about his production.
Dr. Ciccotti: Ok, if you don't want an MRI, maybe let's have him rest for a few weeks and see where we stand.
RAJ: That's what I'm talking about. I like that idea a lot, doctor. And I really appreciate having such a state-of-the-art medical team. I can be pretty tough on you guys sometimes but you do a great job.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:22 AM
Just thought if no one has seen this the Wall Street Journal featured our oldsters:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304732804579421153004161272?KEYWORDS=Phillies&mg=reno64-wsj
But we already knew about RAJs penchant for over the hill kind of guys.
Posted by: RK | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:22 AM
Injury issues lingering for a Phillies pitcher? No way. In other news, water is wet, fire is hot, etc.
Posted by: Sil | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:23 AM
I can't rememeber where I read this (maybe in Peter Benchley's book "Jaws"?), but a beter description of human tendencies there has never been. Goes something like this.
You're on the beach, in dimming light, near a group of homes built right next to it. A gunman approaches you. He tells you to start walking towards the ocean. You begin to walk, terrfied. After a few steps, you realize that the reason the gunman wants you to walk toward the ocean is because the sound of the waves will drown out the shot he's going to fire into you. If you can muster the courage to stop walking and stay near the houses, you might live.
Do most people stop walking?
Not a chance.
Posted by: bittel | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:29 AM
"With eight players on the roster over 35 years old, their home stadium ought to be renamed "Senior" Citizens Bank Park."
"The Phillies, however, have a ways to go to match the 2005 Yankees' record of using 17 players age 35-plus. Coincidentally, Nieves played three games for that team. The National League record, according to Stats LLC, is 14 by the 2007 New York Mets."
Doubt the Phils break either of these records this year but still an interesting number to follow.
Posted by: MG | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:30 AM
brilliant, bap. i think you've cut the gordian knot on this, bittel. no news is better than bad news.
Posted by: bullit | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:30 AM
bittel: That's exactly what's happening. The best example is injecting Howard's leg with cortisone until it exploded
Posted by: Steve | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:31 AM
Do you disagree that this is the operating principle here? We all agree it's idiotic and shortsighted. But it's the reason you asked for, IMO.
Posted by: bittel | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:20 AM
No, I tend to think you've hit pretty close to the mark...regardless of how idiotic such a mentality really is.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:34 AM
Frankly it's a sick mentality.
A person in Amaro's position is prone to think:
"I signed this guy for $140M. If I put he wheels in motion to shut him down before he blows out his arm, it looks like a really, really bad signing unless he comes back and dominates for the next couple of years. In the meantime, I get destroyed more than usual.
On the other hand, if I bury my head in the beach and let him pitch until he absolutely ruins his arm well, hey, that's just anatomy. Could happen to anyone. Win some and lose some. Only the guys on Beerleaguer and the other fanatics will realize I had a chance to forestall this before it ended his career as a top pitcher."
Posted by: bittel | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:41 AM
an urn containing don knotts ashes would make a better GM than rube.
Posted by: bullit | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:48 AM
I don't think Amaro is 'sick' but you can question how his motivation to avoid being fired next year/pressure to win again is affecting some of his decisions.
Posted by: MG | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:48 AM
Apparently Stairs turned down a full-time broadcasting job for the Blue Jays.
http://www.philliedelphia.com/2014/03/matt-stairs-turned-down-first-broadcast-job.html
Posted by: Dickie Thong | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:51 AM
interesting Dickie. that would mean 162 games as opposed to 108 with the phils. presumably a higher salary, unless comcast met it.
Posted by: bullit | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:55 AM
Well, Stairs does have career earnings of just under $20 million. Maybe he invested wisely and simply didn't NEED the money. Also, he's a big family guy...maybe he wanted a more flexible schedule than that of a full-time broadcaster (which is a pretty rigorous job with a ton of travel away from home).
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:59 AM
Do the Phils stink right out of the gate and are just putrid in '14 or does it play out like it has the last 2 seasons where the Phils were initially competitive and then had a prolonged stretch where the team was utterly putrid and it sinks their season?
In 2012, it was really the 2nd week of June until the ASB where they went 9-20 from June 6th-July 8th.
In 2013, it was from July 30th to Aug 20th where they went 5-14 and it stunk their season.
Posted by: MG | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:15 PM
Pollyannas seem to be in short supply this spring. This organization isn't going to move on until people stop showing up at the ballpark. This means you.
Posted by: Curt | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:20 PM
Arm fatigue...You mean like Roy Halladay experienced last spring, before surgery? And again after surgery, when he threw his last pitch?
I'm sure it's nothing....
Posted by: GBrettfan | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:24 PM
So, right now our rotation entering the year will be:
Cliff Lee
AJ Burnett
Kyle Kendrick
Fausto
Buchanan?
That's a pretty weak rotation...Fausto was iffy already as a 5th starter. Seeing him as our #4 and then relying on Lee to continue to defy father time (probable that he does), Burnett to do the same (less probable but still fairly likely), and KK to bounce back to 2013 1st half form (possible but not probable) and a no name guy like Manship, Buchanan or O'Sullivan to handle the #5 role is pretty questionable. Lee is pretty much the only true shutdown option we have and the rest are at best #3 guys (KK, Burnett) or fringy AAAA pitchers like the rest.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:27 PM
Curt - I have a feeling they already are and that the Burnett signing did almost nothing to alter that perception.
Last year, the Phils released their numbers on season ticket sales to the Philly Inquirer on March 1st.
http://articles.philly.com/2013-03-01/sports/37354695_1_tickets-sales-cole-hamels
In previous years, they had articles come out in Feb about how robust tickets sales already were (and I imagine) largely as an attempt to further drive individual single game ticket sales.
This year the Phils haven't released any figures on season ticket sales and I doubt they will publicly either before the season begins.
If the Phils don't release them, it tells you that the sales ticket numbers were poor/horrendous this offseason and that the Phils don't want that perception to sink even more among broader fan base (eg this team stinks and no reason to buy tickets now).
Hamels news certainly won't help matters.
Kind of like that simple fact that the Phils didn't release any formal press release (even on their own site) that they had resigned TMac last year to a 5-year extension. TMac didn't either on this Twitter feed and it didn't come out until spring training when TMac spoke about it.
Posted by: MG | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:30 PM
This Hamels setback will prove to be a blessing in disguise when Jeff Manship wins the National League Cy Young Award.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:33 PM
This medical staff should have been fired when it turned out that they gave Utley the completely wrong advice about his Chondromalacia (told him to rest it all off-season when the right thing to do is stay active all off-season). I mean, thats the face of the franchise and these guys are just dishing it out "rest it" instead of doing their homework on what actually works to treat his condition? The fact that Rube wasn't furious about that speaks volumes to the weird 'stay-the-course' mentality here.
After that point, it should never have surprised us (and really it hasn't) that they did or are doing a bad job of handling Halladay, Howard, and now Hamels too. Its disgraceful.
Posted by: timr | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:38 PM
***
This medical staff should have been fired when it turned out that they gave Utley the completely wrong advice about his Chondromalacia (told him to rest it all off-season when the right thing to do is stay active all off-season).
***
To be fair to them, Chondromalacia is really hard to spell and Wikipedia is notorious for its innacuracies...how were they to know it wasn't right?
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:40 PM
Investing heavily in pitching especially starting pitching and placing huge salaries is a 'high risk/high reward' strategy and unfortunately for the Phils it has backfired for them the last 2 years with Halladay and now very possibility with Hamels.
Posted by: MG | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:40 PM
what would have to happen for the players union to get involved and demand an MRI on behalf of a member that they feel is being mistreated?
Posted by: bullit | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:43 PM
Cole has every right under the CBA to request and get a 2nd opinion. He is clearly not doing that.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:44 PM
How Utley/Howard were handled to me were serious red flags especially after it came out where Utley & his agent forced Amaro's hand to go outside the organization for treatment and Amaro basically admitted to lying & having to publicly backtrack about Howard's cortisone shots in '11 and how he was handled that offseason/spring.
If this team hadn't had the calamity of serious injuries the past 2 years, I do wonder how things would have played out. Likely no playoff appearances but it would have fit the gradual 'competitive team' on the field while the organization tried to gradually replenish its minor league system/younger talent base.
Posted by: MG | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:46 PM
As a general matter (which means I'm not speaking to the specifics of the Hamels injury, which we don't know anything about), I actually disagree with the idea that if you have a guy on a long-term deal, you need to take extra precautions beyond what you normally would do to keep them healthy, including sacrificing their season prematurely.
When you have a player entering or in their 30s, the first couple seasons of the deal are *why* you signed the deal. It's entirely possible and reasonable that 80% of player x at age 31 is more valuable than 100% of that player at age 35.
The fact that you have Cole Hamels on a 7-year deal does not mean you should be willing to sacrifice the first or second year of that deal to try and ensure he's fully healthy for the back end. In fact, your incentives should probably be aligned the other way. Do whatever you can to get them on the field (if they can perform reasonably well) at the front end of the deal and don't worry about the back end, since you have to assume even if healthy they won't be nearly as good by the end of the deal.
Posted by: Jack | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:50 PM
So, our #5 pitcher will end up being some no-name retread or a rookie with zero MLB experience and limited upside like Buchanan.
Our #4 pitcher has an career ERA+ of 89 and and ERA+ of 75 over the past 3 seasons.
Our #3 pitcher has a career ERA+ of 94 and an ERA+ of 96 over the past 3 seasons (not terrible at least)
Our #2 pitcher has a career ERA+ of 105 and an ERA+ of 97 over the past 3 seasons (though his most recent 2 are much better than that at 107)
At least Clifton is still solid, eh?
I predict a lot of games in the early going where we are simply bludgeoned by the opposing offense.
Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:52 PM
The refusal to order MRIs plus the vast underutilization of advanced analytics just reiterates this organization is afraid of having more information at hand, because this information would tell them the bad news they don't want to hear, whether it be that one of their stars is seriously hurt, that the team they assmbled stinks, and that they are generally performing poorly in their jobs. They would also likely have to acknowledge those issues to the public.
In addition, Amaro and Co. are so steadfast in their old school ways that they not only brush off modern thinking, they downplay it entirely because they want us to think it's a bunch of hocus pucos and that they know more than we do. Almost like a cult leader that has completely lost his mind.
Perhaps 20 years down the road, we'll read about a homeless RAJ roaming the foothills of North Carolina, professing to be Jesus, and predicitng the end of the world in 2024 according to the Mayan calendar. Much like Rob Ford or Rod Blagovich for that matter, RAJ is in an authoritative position yet is completely out of touch, will not acknowledge his terrible performance, and seemingly is never coming back to reality.
74 wins.
Posted by: WSJ | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:57 PM
On the plus side, Rube will be fired at the end of this season. This team is going to be that bad.
Posted by: timr | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:58 PM
"I predict a lot of games in the early going where we are simply bludgeoned by the opposing offense."
And then there will be the many games where we do get good pitching, but our offense doesn't score any runs.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 12:59 PM
"Perhaps 20 years down the road, we'll read about a homeless RAJ roaming the foothills of North Carolina, professing to be Jesus, and predicting the end of the world in 2024 according to the Mayan calendar."
Not to nitpick with the very poignant imagery that you've depicted but, if it's 20 years down the road, then 2024 will already have passed.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:05 PM
Looking over MLB.tv, I am saddened that the Lakeland squad isn't being telecast in any form. As it's the squad up in Lakeland today -- Ruf, Franco, Asche, and Hernandez -- that looks like it's actually worth watching/listening to.
Posted by: Juums | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:07 PM
This is going to be the worst Phillies season since the late 90s, I'm fairly confident. I'm still going to watch, of course,
________________________________________-
We know JAck. So you can come back here and gloat over and over again how smart you are. Please do us all a favor and get stuck in your boyfriend so you can't get to a computer
Posted by: cut_fastball | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 11:03 AM
T'aint me. Bleep off, coward.
Posted by: cut_fastball | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:10 PM
We're all thinking it...
What does Hamels' setback mean for Darin Ruf?
FREE RUF
Posted by: Cyclic | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:11 PM
"Not to nitpick with the very poignant imagery that you've depicted but, if it's 20 years down the road, then 2024 will already have passed."
Indeed BAP, good catch. I do believe this scenario is possible though. Long scraggly beard, shoeless and completely insane.
Posted by: WSJ | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:13 PM
Cyclic:
I think Iceman wins the new Ruf meme contest with #FluffRuf. We can't use FREE RUF until he's actually sent down to AAA.
But seriously, Hamels' setback does improve Ruf's chance of cracking a 25-man squad. As it becomes slightly more likely he's dealt for a fringy 5th starter-type to fill out the bottom of the rotation or more greater SP depth.
Posted by: Juums | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:16 PM
my first thought too, Juums. his bat will be even more needed with a rotation that gives up more runs.
Posted by: bullit | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:23 PM
Juums - good point. Ironically, if Darin Ruf is traded for some garbage 5th starter the team becomes even less appealing to watch.
I wasn't going to predict gloom this year - I thought pride alone would get them to ~83 wins. Too bad the Hamels issue makes that such a bad play.
Posted by: cut_fastball | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:25 PM
"I do believe this scenario is possible though. Long scraggly beard, shoeless and completely insane."
Until one day, Dave Montgomery happens to walk past him on the street. Recognizing it to be RAJ, he arranges to have him transported to the Phillies' medical facility, to be evaluated by team psychiatrists. During the evaluation, Hamels declares that he is Jesus and that the end of the world is nigh. The team's psychiatrists conclude that he does not suffer from any mental health maladies. They prescribe two weeks of rest.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:33 PM
Do we break out the Bruntlett for a ST rain-out, or do only the regular season games deserve that?
Posted by: Phillibuster | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:40 PM
On a related note, do we get two Bruntletts if both games get rained out?
Posted by: Phillibuster | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:41 PM
A setback from what? I thought he was fine.. just behind? This is a surprise to no one.
Posted by: BobbyD | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:49 PM
That's the Phillies narrative, BobbyD. It's clear to most, however, that Hamels is not "fine"
Posted by: Steve | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:53 PM
Who does the Beerleaguer consensus like for Hamels' replacement?
A) Buchanan
B) Manship
C) O'Sullivan
D) Other (please specify)
Posted by: Cyclic | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:53 PM
Juums - good point. Ironically, if Darin Ruf is traded for some garbage 5th starter the team becomes even less appealing to watch.
I wasn't going to predict gloom this year - I thought pride alone would get them to ~83 wins. Too bad the Hamels issue makes that such a bad play.
Posted by: cut_fastball | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:25 PM
Tain't me. Bleep off, coward
Posted by: cut_fastball | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:54 PM
You try to stay optimistic even when you see moves you disagree with, moves you'd like to see that don't happen etc. Ruben Amaro and the entire FO make it very hard to be optimistic. The level of ineptitude is hard to grasp with a company valued at around a billion dollars.
Posted by: Kashmir | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 01:57 PM
OMG. Double Bruntlett all the way. Whoa-hoa-hoa-hoa-hoa!!!
Posted by: Yosemitebear62 | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 02:16 PM
Here we go with Amaro, he's "not worried" about Hamels. Of course he isn't. Since he isn't reading an MRI or medical report, I supposed he's psychic. Clown.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/phillies/Amaro-Sandberg-talk-about-the-Hamels-situation.html
Posted by: pblunts | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 02:20 PM
"He lost I think maybe 10 or 15 pounds"
Nothing to see here people. Just "fatigue"
Posted by: Cyclic | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 02:25 PM
"The fact that he's throwing, not having any pain or anything like that, this is part of the rehab, things happen, it doesn't always go in a straight line. It's really more a matter of fatigue. We don't have any issues about his health as far as his structure or anything like that. We just have to be patient."
Posted by: Baghdad Bob | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 02:28 PM
"He lost I think maybe 10 or 15 pounds"
Why the hell did he lose 10 to 15 pounds? Was he on Survivor? Seriously, do they even call these guys from October to February? Do other teams have players end the season completely healthy and show up to spring training a complete mess?
Posted by: Spicoli | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 02:43 PM
Ah well, there goes our chance for double-Bruntlett.
Or is this just a half-Bruntlett? If so, which half?
Posted by: Phillibuster | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 02:44 PM
KK lost the zone again.
Posted by: Phillibuster | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 02:51 PM
The more amusing half, obviously, 'Buster.
And Ryan Howard's defense appears to be where you'd expect it to be. The broadcasting team, however, is far from midseason form: They need a lot of work in finding new euphemisms for "past a diving Ryan Howard".
Posted by: Juums | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 02:53 PM
Byrd is having a good spring.
Is this good or bad?
Posted by: Cyclic | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 02:57 PM
Has anyone ever asked point-blank how they can be sure there are no structural issues without an MRI?
Another familiar refrain:
"It affects us," Amaro said. "But again, however long he's out, we have to play. We have to play baseball games. People have to step up and perform. It's as simple as that."
Posted by: GBrettfan | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 02:58 PM
But how does "perform" correlate to "production"?
Posted by: Steve | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 03:00 PM
Byrd was going to have a roster spot no matter what, so I think it'd be a good thing if he did well in Spring Training. But given that these are the Phils we're talking about, he might be burning his seasonal allotment of good PAs with a good spring.
Posted by: Juums | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 03:00 PM
Just as I was about to say, "Kendrick is looking sharp today"
Posted by: Cyclic | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 03:05 PM
Ump squeezing KK a bit vs. Jeter. Didn't realize the retirement treatment extended to ST.
Posted by: Phillibuster | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 03:08 PM
Your 2014 Philadelphia Phillies: "We have to play baseball games."
Someone call the marketing department!
Posted by: timr | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 03:14 PM
Nice called 3rd on McCann. Late break away and down to fall into the outside of the zone.
Posted by: Phillibuster | Thursday, March 06, 2014 at 03:14 PM